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I think when you consider the price of GW codices and rulebooks you also have to factor in the "niche hobby" aspect of it. Yes, the new codex is $50 for a hardback book. It's also going to sell to a relatively small audience.

Somebody else mentioned the "Art of Halo" book for $20 earlier. Well, comparing GW to the Art of Halo is like comparing apples and watermelons. I'm sure that whatever company owns the Halo franchise is rolling in a lot more money than GW is, because they have a much wider audience and Halo is HUGE. The key phrase in that person's statement was also "found at the bookstore". When's the last time you walked into your local Barnes and Noble and saw a Warhammer 40K rulebook or codex on the shelf? Wider distribution means you can put out your books for cheaper, because they'll naturally sell more copies.

It's a pricey hobby. You can find things cheaper online if you're willing to do some looking, but it still costs cash to play tabletop miniature wargames. Yes, $50 is a lot to drop on one codex - but you also won't need another one for what, 6-7 years?

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
GW should offer a pocket codex.

A pamphlet that contains the reference section, army list, weapon entries, and special rules for that army. Basically the codex minus all the fluff.

I'd pay $20 for that.


It would be a useful gaming aid and if somone just couldn't afford a $50 codex they could at least afford the rules for their army.

...and most people would buy the pocket codex, GW makes a lot less money => not gonna happen.

I'd buy both. One to keep at home to read and use to make my army (the full version), and one to throw in my backpack when I go play a game or when I'm traveling and want to flip through it (pamphlet version).

Somebody else mentioned the "Art of Halo" book for $20 earlier. Well, comparing GW to the Art of Halo is like comparing apples and watermelons. I'm sure that whatever company owns the Halo franchise is rolling in a lot more money than GW is, because they have a much wider audience and Halo is HUGE.

but halos main market is the US , I dont think that the main market for GW are the US right now . most sells still come from UK . and market wise GW and its games are huge , while halo is not the only FPS there is [a lot of other popular games exist] , GW is more or less a monopolist as wargaming goes . Specialy after PP pulling out of Europe,

Makumba wrote:

Somebody else mentioned the "Art of Halo" book for $20 earlier. Well, comparing GW to the Art of Halo is like comparing apples and watermelons. I'm sure that whatever company owns the Halo franchise is rolling in a lot more money than GW is, because they have a much wider audience and Halo is HUGE.

but halos main market is the US , I dont think that the main market for GW are the US right now . most sells still come from UK . and market wise GW and its games are huge , while halo is not the only FPS there is [a lot of other popular games exist] , GW is more or less a monopolist as wargaming goes . Specialy after PP pulling out of Europe,

Really? I though sales of space marines, in the US alone, out-sold all other GW product world wide.

I mean, I'm no economist or anything. It's just something I've heard for years.

Makumba wrote:
I dont think that the main market for GW are the US right now . most sells still come from UK . and market wise GW and its games are huge , while halo is not the only FPS there is [a lot of other popular games exist] , GW is more or less a monopolist as wargaming goes . Specialy after PP pulling out of Europe,

Games Workshop's 2011-2012 Annual Report disagrees that most sales come from the UK.

External Revenue (£000):
UK 31,648
North America 33,621
Continental Europe 40,757

 kronk wrote:


External Revenue (£000):
UK 31,648
North America 33,621
Continental Europe 40,757

Population North America (US + CA): 350 Mio.
Population Western EU: 420 Mio. (w/o UK. not gonna even start on Russia, etc.).
Population UK: 62,2 Mio.

Meh, $50 hurts....but not that much.

I play Eldar & Dark Angels, neither of which have had a codex in 5 years now. I think I paid $25 USD for them, which in my line of thinking means I spend on average $5 per year on a codex...chickenfeed. Now it's $10...which is what I'll spend on lunch today. I think like that, so it doesn't bother me that much, and if you've read some of my other post you'll notice a value/dollar theme kinda thing with me.

Where GW screwed up is that I used to buy all of the codices. I liked knowing all aspects of the fluff, everything my opponent could do - for no surprises. It wasn't too expensive, so impulse buying wasn't a concern. Now I don't do that anymore. GK, BA....didn't buy them, not my stuff, GW's decision to price gouge lost them my dollar. Borrowed a friends GK and Tau and browsed, another friend offered me a PDF of BA. I don't play any of those armies, so I skimmed them both to see if either army was worth playing. I really see it no different than a friend lending me a novel.

If either army was interesting to me, I'd buy the codex, but because of current pricing I only buy the core stuff I need to play my side of the game.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 kronk wrote:


External Revenue (£000):
UK 31,648
North America 33,621
Continental Europe 40,757

Population North America (US + CA): 350 Mio.
Population Western EU: 420 Mio. (w/o UK. not gonna even start on Russia, etc.).
Population UK: 62,2 Mio.

Irrelevant, but impressive. However, it wasn't a question of $/population.

It was a question of "most sells still come from UK", which isn't true.

 Darth Bob wrote:


It's unfortunate, but it's just the way it is. No sense complaining about it.

It will always be this way if people don’t complain

GW will have no reason to change any of there pricing, and in fact, can sit there and raise prices sky high because everyone seems content.

Im personally starting to feel the pinch in the wallet and Tzeentch knows what’s going to happen once my codex and new units get released but as of right now its not awfull, just bad.

Remember, this is not a staple of a person's needs, hobbies are priced at what the market can sustain and materials costs. It is not for MPC, Revell, Hobbico, or Games Workshop to make everything as discounted as possible. If they went to cheaper, less-quality materials and skimpier models, people would be complaining that quality has taken a back seat to pricing, so GW would still be demonized.

These are luxury items and, as such, are priced accordingly. If people weren't buying ForgeWorld models, GW would have discontinued the line and killed off the company.

My point still stands. If you like the hobby, you will always find the money to invest in it. Evem if it requires the sacrifice of some other luxuries, like expensive coffee or a new CD, you'll appreciate the purchase. If not, then either be happy with what you have or find a cheaper hobby. I hear solitaire is cheap, and it has a pretty solid ruleset....

Am not sure , right now we are at a point where getting money to buy a proper 2k army list with double FoC and non double FoC optimisation , takes more time then an avarge player stays playing the game .

 Desubot wrote:

 Darth Bob wrote:


It's unfortunate, but it's just the way it is. No sense complaining about it.

It will always be this way if people don’t complain

GW will have no reason to change any of there pricing, and in fact, can sit there and raise prices sky high because everyone seems content.

Im personally starting to feel the pinch in the wallet and Tzeentch knows what’s going to happen once my codex and new units get released but as of right now its not awfull, just bad.

I disagree. It will always be this way if people ONLY complain, and fail to do anything about it. If you have such strong feelings about the pricing, don't buy the stuff. Complaining loudly, then forking the money over anyway, doesn't send GW a message they can understand.

I'm staggered by the overwhelming amount of "advice" which is basically saying "deal with it or quit". I'm sorry but it isn't that simple, when I started the hobby I believed it was fair to expect to pay for an £8 codex despite them being thin on detail and not very long, 8 quid was a small amount of my hobby budget so sure why not. Then they gradually crept up to about £12 over several years and it was also as the books started to get thicker and more detailed so I accepted it. Then they shot up to £17.50 and I thought woah this is a getting stupid now, especially as they even bumped the prices of the older codices like Dark Angels and I stopped buying new releases unless I actually intended on collecting an army. Now however a £30 price...almost double what it used to be...no I can't justify that anymore. And for all you in the "deal with it" crowd, yes I have unfortunately decided that I can't sustain the rising cost of the hobby anymore and I have ebayed 4 of my major armies already, some of which I've had for nearly 10 years. My point is, why should I have to resort to quitting because GW can't keep prices fair? I was a loyal customer for the past 14 years and I'll still buy BL books and take an interest in the fluff but I will not be buying for the game again.

As for the ebay crowd, fair play to you if you want to buy things second hand and slowly build your force. But what kind of buisness model is that! Imagine if Apple came out and said here's are 10,000 dollar Iphone 6, if you cant afford one then tough, why dont you wait 3 years and buy it on ebay and quit your bitching. Also another industry which many feel is over-priced; video games, they are priced highly yes, but a game 3 years out of date gets a price reduction not increase. Fine GW feels the need to make new vehicle boxsets £40 but how the hell can the justify rasing the price of all the 4-7 year old kits to match the new ones?

If we're all so reliant on ebay then what's the point of GW at all anymore, lets stop buying, let them go bankrupt, buy ebay models and work together as a community to create fan made codices and rule books instead. Hey we all hate GW updates anyway from all the complaing on dakka, who needs them.

I'm not quitting, I'm just not giving GW my money anymore. It will go to eBay or amazon or I'll trade for what I need.

I'll be sending an email to them shortly describing why they've lost me as a customer. Not only that but I'll be keeping a runing tally of all my purchases from here on out and sending further emails listing them. In essence telling them this is what I've bought that could have been bought directly from you, the price I actually paid and here's the price your asking. Summing up the repeat emails with the reason why they still have lost my busniess. I realize that it won't be rad by anyone that matters but it's the principle of the thing.

One can only hope Kirby and Wells retire soon and someone else more reasonable takes charge. Long gak I know but o well.

Every once and a while i freak out about how much GW stuff costs. 50$ for the new codex and they don't give you the digital codex for free, that's another 35$. Then I remember that I used to spend a minimum 50$ a week on pot most of my life and it doesn't seem too crazy.

I really do think that If they bundled the digital and the hardcover codex together it would ease some of the butt hurt.

i want a ferrari.... but it costs 100 thousand bucks. why dosent ferrari price its stuff so everyone can afford it?

the houses in my area ran about 200 thousand for a bungalo about 7 years back. now that same house sells for 500. thatz crazy! how dare they increase the price by more then double!

EVERYTHING has its price go up over time. soda, candy bars, gas, utilitites, homes, cars, clothes, EVERYTHING. why is toy army men any diffierent? its called inflation. just because something used to cost only 10$ 10 years ago... what - its supposed to stay 10$ forever? if that was the case i could still get a bag of chips and a 2l cola for 25 cents. or only pay 20$ to fill my cars gas tank. the long and short of it: prices on everything increase over time, based on market demand. GWs cost to make the books and models have no doubt risen, thus they must increase prices proportonally to maintain profits. otherwise they tank, and the whole game goes away.

im not saying "suck it up and buy it or quit" - but the reality is complaining on the internet will NOT make GW lower its prices. or give you free snausages or anything else. if the price of the item you want or need costs more then youd like, well you have 3 options:
- go into debt and get it at the expense of bills/food/housing etc
- dont get it, and just "deal" (quit or dont... dosent matter)
- save up over time, and get it when you can.

generally ive had to decrease my frequency of purchasing. i generally get a set amount per month to spend on my hobby, and with price increase, instead of getting 2-3 boxes i maybe get 1 and some paint. but: the one key thing i keep in mind... warhammer is a hobby, and thus a luxuray. its not something i need to survive, and therefore if the prices rise i must do one of the above. rage quitting and selling on ebay is a method some choose... but i would think its not the best option, unless you REALLY need the cash. but in that case i would suggest re examining your budget for the actual reason you have no money and need more.

Go look at the price of Lego and you will think GW is fairly priced.

 lunarman wrote:
Go look at the price of Lego and you will think GW is fairly priced.

Apples and oranges. Lego comes pre painted

I'm not sure that it's the $50 for the codex that's so bad (although at that price you're now looking at, minimum, $125 to get the rules to play this game if you pay full retail... short of video games I can't think of any other gaming that has that high of a cost of entry.) The 50% price increase, however, is pretty extreme. Sure the new codex costs more to produce, but if you're buying this thing for the rules that really doesn't matter... you're just going to notice that 50% price hike. I don't care if it's a $1 candy bar; people would notice if it jumped up to $1.50, shiny new wrapper or no. (Yes, I am aware that codices and candy bars aren't the same thing.)

Add in the relatively lackluster new models (most people seem to have one or two that they like, but the overall response seems to be 'meh' mixed with 'Derp! Zoids!') and the re-release/bonus price increase on a lot of old miniatures left me less than thrilled. I was originally planning on turning my DV models into a starter Chaos force of Fallen, after seeing the Chaos release I've started to wonder if I want to bother, and I've already scaled back one other project (some GK paladins) so that I wouldn't need to buy any extra plastic. The GKTs certainly didn't get any more expensive in the past week, but GW just put a bad taste in my mouth.

 wowsmash wrote:
I'm not quitting, I'm just not giving GW my money anymore. It will go to eBay or amazon or I'll trade for what I need.

I'll be sending an email to them shortly describing why they've lost me as a customer. Not only that but I'll be keeping a runing tally of all my purchases from here on out and sending further emails listing them. In essence telling them this is what I've bought that could have been bought directly from you, the price I actually paid and here's the price your asking. Summing up the repeat emails with the reason why they still have lost my busniess. I realize that it won't be rad by anyone that matters but it's the principle of the thing.

One can only hope Kirby and Wells retire soon and someone else more reasonable takes charge. Long gak I know but o well.

That's a great idea. I'd be interested in hearing if you get any responses.

The new budget-busting hardcover codices (and army books from WHFB previously) have only confirmed my decision to confine my 40K activity to use of my existing minis and/or e-Bay acquisitions only with other players who want to play previous editions. The ONLY way GW will change is if the point is pounded into their heads that their decisions are costing them $$$.

 Crystal Geyser wrote:
Is there anywhere I can buy the new CSM codex for cheaply (and legally).
We didn't ask for a hardcover, nor did we ask for full color, and we sure as hell did not ask fro the $50 rice tag it comes with.
I refuse to feed into GW's price inflation on this. I'll accept most, but not this.
Does anyone know where we can get it cheaper?

Whether you pay $50 or pay a discount you are still feeding the GW price inflation. Buy that $50 book from an independent retailer and GW only gets a set amount of the value. Buy the same book from a discount independent retailer and GW *still* gets the same amount of the value. Only time there is any difference for GW is you buy directly from GW or a GW retail store.

You are right we didn't ask for full color and hardcover, but given that Warhammer fantasy has been going that route for some time anyone who didn't expect it to appear in 40k eventually was kidding themselves.

I probably will only buy the books for armies I intend to build now instead of buying the others for reading and knowing my enemy. At $50 a pop that will just get stupidly expensive.

Edit: I do chuckle at those who pat themselves on the back and say they will only ever buy stuff on ebay or amazon auctions from now on as if that makes them superior in some way. The simple fact is that the only way there continues to be product to purchase on those sites is by people continuing to purchase GW products in the retail market. So you haven't fixed anything, but instead have just limited yourself to delayed gratification until someone else buys it and gets bored with it and sells it off. If everyone decided to go to the ebay/amazon route only there would be nothing to buy anymore.


Skriker

 DarthSpader wrote:
i want a ferrari.... but it costs 100 thousand bucks. why dosent ferrari price its stuff so everyone can afford it?

the houses in my area ran about 200 thousand for a bungalo about 7 years back. now that same house sells for 500. thatz crazy! how dare they increase the price by more then double!

EVERYTHING has its price go up over time. soda, candy bars, gas, utilitites, homes, cars, clothes, EVERYTHING. why is toy army men any diffierent? its called inflation. just because something used to cost only 10$ 10 years ago... what - its supposed to stay 10$ forever? if that was the case i could still get a bag of chips and a 2l cola for 25 cents. or only pay 20$ to fill my cars gas tank. the long and short of it: prices on everything increase over time, based on market demand. GWs cost to make the books and models have no doubt risen, thus they must increase prices proportonally to maintain profits. otherwise they tank, and the whole game goes away.

im not saying "suck it up and buy it or quit" - but the reality is complaining on the internet will NOT make GW lower its prices. or give you free snausages or anything else. if the price of the item you want or need costs more then youd like, well you have 3 options:
- go into debt and get it at the expense of bills/food/housing etc
- dont get it, and just "deal" (quit or dont... dosent matter)
- save up over time, and get it when you can.

generally ive had to decrease my frequency of purchasing. i generally get a set amount per month to spend on my hobby, and with price increase, instead of getting 2-3 boxes i maybe get 1 and some paint. but: the one key thing i keep in mind... warhammer is a hobby, and thus a luxuray. its not something i need to survive, and therefore if the prices rise i must do one of the above. rage quitting and selling on ebay is a method some choose... but i would think its not the best option, unless you REALLY need the cash. but in that case i would suggest re examining your budget for the actual reason you have no money and need more.

Really hit it on the head, Darth. So when can we expect Ferrari to be lowering their prices because of internet furor? Lol

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 DarthSpader wrote:
i want a ferrari.... but it costs 100 thousand bucks. why dosent ferrari price its stuff so everyone can afford it?

the houses in my area ran about 200 thousand for a bungalo about 7 years back. now that same house sells for 500. thatz crazy! how dare they increase the price by more then double!

EVERYTHING has its price go up over time. soda, candy bars, gas, utilitites, homes, cars, clothes, EVERYTHING. why is toy army men any diffierent? its called inflation. just because something used to cost only 10$ 10 years ago... what - its supposed to stay 10$ forever? if that was the case i could still get a bag of chips and a 2l cola for 25 cents. or only pay 20$ to fill my cars gas tank. the long and short of it: prices on everything increase over time, based on market demand. GWs cost to make the books and models have no doubt risen, thus they must increase prices proportonally to maintain profits. otherwise they tank, and the whole game goes away.

im not saying "suck it up and buy it or quit" - but the reality is complaining on the internet will NOT make GW lower its prices. or give you free snausages or anything else. if the price of the item you want or need costs more then youd like, well you have 3 options:
- go into debt and get it at the expense of bills/food/housing etc
- dont get it, and just "deal" (quit or dont... dosent matter)
- save up over time, and get it when you can.

generally ive had to decrease my frequency of purchasing. i generally get a set amount per month to spend on my hobby, and with price increase, instead of getting 2-3 boxes i maybe get 1 and some paint. but: the one key thing i keep in mind... warhammer is a hobby, and thus a luxuray. its not something i need to survive, and therefore if the prices rise i must do one of the above. rage quitting and selling on ebay is a method some choose... but i would think its not the best option, unless you REALLY need the cash. but in that case i would suggest re examining your budget for the actual reason you have no money and need more.

Really hit it on the head, Darth. So when can we expect Ferrari to be lowering their prices because of internet furor? Lol

Solution: Buy an 03 Cobra, buy a Whipple supercharger and tune/supporting mods for roughly $5000, and then go smoke the $100K Ferarri. Its called proxy and customization =)

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Solution: Buy an 03 Cobra, buy a Whipple supercharger and tune/supporting mods for roughly $5000, and then go smoke the $100K Ferarri. Its called proxy and customization =)

Or just tell everyone that your baby poo brown 74 plymouth beater is *really* a bright red ferrari...

Skriker

 Skriker wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Solution: Buy an 03 Cobra, buy a Whipple supercharger and tune/supporting mods for roughly $5000, and then go smoke the $100K Ferarri. Its called proxy and customization =)

Or just tell everyone that your baby poo brown 74 plymouth beater is *really* a bright red ferrari...

Skriker

LOLZ, but I just happen to own said car (without the Whipple) so..........................Ill just tell em my beater SVT Contour is a Bugatti

The only problem I have with the price rises and all is that I see wide eyed children that are the age I was at when I started (back when it was A LOT cheaper) and I just feel so sad for them that they are just going to be cold shouldered by GW unless they are spoilt rotten by their perants. This is a great hobby to get into but the problem is that GW is making that door smaller and smaller...

People say that GW profits on the "one time whine" of a child and that is it.... well, what happens once that stops? What then? Further price increases? That'll just push more players away. You can only raise the prices so high without at least giving a damn reason as to WHY. I wouldn't be so annoyed at GW if the head would give us a video of him saying why they are doing it. Give us some human factor at least. I would feel a lot better then as it is justifide. But no, we just see the WD message which has become more like the barer of the end of the world somewhat when it just says "Price increases this summer/winter etc".

I really wish we could get through to gamesworkshop with this issue, but unless we do so together, we are not going to see anything happen. In order for anything that we say to be taken seriously there needs to be at least a couple of 1000 people voicing their concerns if not more.

I think we should try to start a movement or something. Get our voices heard to gamesworkshop. What happened to the friendly hobby company I remember? What happened to Chapter approved. What happened to what made Warhammer A HOBBY. Not a product to be sold and bartered. We need to do something soon, or else there isn't going to be much left for us to salvage...

This thread is starting to become quite inspirational!

 DONUTSREVENGED wrote:
The only problem I have with the price rises and all is that I see wide eyed children that are the age I was at when I started (back when it was A LOT cheaper) and I just feel so sad for them that they are just going to be cold shouldered by GW unless they are spoilt rotten by their perants. This is a great hobby to get into but the problem is that GW is making that door smaller and smaller...

People say that GW profits on the "one time whine" of a child and that is it.... well, what happens once that stops? What then? Further price increases? That'll just push more players away. You can only raise the prices so high without at least giving a damn reason as to WHY. I wouldn't be so annoyed at GW if the head would give us a video of him saying why they are doing it. Give us some human factor at least. I would feel a lot better then as it is justifide. But no, we just see the WD message which has become more like the barer of the end of the world somewhat when it just says "Price increases this summer/winter etc".

I really wish we could get through to gamesworkshop with this issue, but unless we do so together, we are not going to see anything happen. In order for anything that we say to be taken seriously there needs to be at least a couple of 1000 people voicing their concerns if not more.

I think we should try to start a movement or something. Get our voices heard to gamesworkshop. What happened to the friendly hobby company I remember? What happened to Chapter approved. What happened to what made Warhammer A HOBBY. Not a product to be sold and bartered. We need to do something soon, or else there isn't going to be much left for us to salvage...

Guess you missed Darthspader's post, huh?

When I was in middle and high school, I was a member of a local gaming club. I used to watch people playing Warhammer, but I had no way to afford it. 15 years later, I was in a position to afford it, sort of. If your point is that Games Workshop should slash its products and prices simply to be affordable to everyone, you have no grasp on the definition of a hobby. It is not up to them to lose money in order to be affordable. Hobbies are niche markets with prices set by costs. There is no requirement that they have to be priced at X, Y, or Z due to economic factors, that is usually what happens to actual commodities like food and materials, in other words, actual economic indicators.

Grow up and realize that prices are there for a reason. Otherwise, Ferraris would be affordable. Everyone who has the mkney may buy one, but are they really a necessity? Nope. Same with hobbies.

 DONUTSREVENGED wrote:
The only problem I have with the price rises and all is that I see wide eyed children that are the age I was at when I started (back when it was A LOT cheaper) and I just feel so sad for them that they are just going to be cold shouldered by GW unless they are spoilt rotten by their perants.

I started when I was 9. For the longest time I only had the stuff from the 2nd edition starter, because I couldn't afforcd it on my allowance. As I got older, and that grew a bit, I could afford the odd single model. It wasn't until I got a job myself that I could afford all the things I wanted.

Hell, I remember paying $60au for a Carnifex in 2nd edition after saving for a long, long time. They're $83 now. I actually felt bad at spending so much of my allowance on one model. My Tyranid army was made up of a Hive Tyrant (that I got for Christmas), Carnifex, Lictor (they weren't as expensive), some Tyranid Warriors (that I think I got for my birthday), and Genestealers scrounged from my brothers Space Crusade copy and my cousins.

If you had it good way back then in school without having a part time job, it's because you were spoiled then. The only difference now is you need so much more to play a decently sized game.

GW products are mass produced in China. The is no reason for GW to be expensive.

Just because someing is a hobby doesn't mean its a luxury. I like to walk in parks I've never been to. That's a hobby.

I like to draw. A stack of paper and some pencils isn't exactly a luxury.

I've made a pact with my friends. We're not buying GW anymore. We have our armies. We have torrents.

I'm moving on to Warmahordes. A game I swore I'd never play. But I can buy into it with $250. That's rulebooks and models. A rather big collection at that.

Compared to GWs $125 entrance fee, I'd say Warmahordes is a much better pile of metal, resin and plastic to spend my hobby cash on.

P.S. I may take a look at DUST and Dystopian Wars also.

Edited for sleepy mistakes.