Outrageous Chaos Codex

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**Kal-El**

iTunes should be the cheapest legit way to get a copy. They are coming out with it per the White Dwarf I read. White Dwarf is cheaper on iTunes as well, and it is way better than the actual book. It has zoomable pics in high res, videos, etc that the mag does not have.

**nosferatu1001**

Except apple take 30% cut, making iTunes no cheaper a model than standard distribution

Again: having two lines of codexes doubles the amount of space in a shop, for less than double the increase in revenue. There's a reason they have condensed their ranges, eg online only sales, and retail cost is a big driver

£30, for the use you get and the quality, is fine, personally. Not saying I wouldn't like it cheaper, but understand the actual economics unlike a fair number of people, here and elsewhere.

**Kal-El**

I'm a little sad that the MRB was 80$ and pretty much became a paper weight when the FAQ arrived. iTunes at least updates for you the new info.

**SoloFalcon1138**

Kaldor wrote:
Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Kaldor wrote:
SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Grow up and realize that prices are there for a reason. Otherwise, Ferraris would be affordable. Everyone who has the mkney may buy one, but are they really a necessity? Nope. Same with hobbies.

Sooo, plastic toy soldiers are analogous to a Ferrari now?

Actually in the context that SoloFalcon put it, yes, they are; they are both items which you might lust after with a passion but neither of which you need.

That's a terrible analogy.

Nope. Let's see. Food: everyone needs it. Shelter: everyone needs it. These are real world necessities. Once these things are taken care of, which usually includes those stupid things called job, bills, taxes, rent, grocery bill, etc., then we are able to invest in non-essential items, like a nice pair of shoes, a movie, a relaxing drink, or a Ferrari. No one ever said, "I'm dying over here, Get me some Chaos minis or I may may actually die."

Grow up, and stop bombarding us with a whine thead that should be filed under "First World Problems." We all know how.much this hobby costs. If it expensive, but you enjoy it and want to play it, after necessities are taken care of, save your pennies.

**Makumba**

No one ever said, "I'm dying over here, Get me some Chaos minis or I may may actually die."

very false idea about humans you have there dude . any psychologists will tell you that if someone is part of a group or worse wants to be a part of one and doesnt have the abilty to sustain the membership , which in the case of w40k would be having an up to date codex and army , then at best he is in for some mild depresion and at worse if prolonged it actualy may end in death and even if it doesnt it rises the chance of heart diseases or cancer by a substential enough amount for it to show in medical data . So yeah , if someones hobby is wargaming then being unable to take part in it , can end in death.

**SoloFalcon1138**

Makumba wrote:
No one ever said, "I'm dying over here, Get me some Chaos minis or I may may actually die."

very false idea about humans you have there dude . any psychologists will tell you that if someone is part of a group or worse wants to be a part of one and doesnt have the abilty to sustain the membership , which in the case of w40k would be having an up to date codex and army , then at best he is in for some mild depresion and at worse if prolonged it actualy may end in death and even if it doesnt it rises the chance of heart diseases or cancer by a substential enough amount for it to show in medical data . So yeah , if someones hobby is wargaming then being unable to take part in it , can end in death.

Wow, then I should have died a while ago, because I wanted to play 40k really bad, but I was in high school and couldn't afford it then.

Oh wait, I actually do have clinical depression. Hearing it related to hobby handicaps is insulting. I play my hobbies to feel better. If I don't have the latest and greatest, I make do and save for it.

Is it time for this ridiculousness to be locked yet?

**Hetelic**

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Makumba wrote:
No one ever said, "I'm dying over here, Get me some Chaos minis or I may may actually die."

very false idea about humans you have there dude . any psychologists will tell you that if someone is part of a group or worse wants to be a part of one and doesnt have the abilty to sustain the membership , which in the case of w40k would be having an up to date codex and army , then at best he is in for some mild depresion and at worse if prolonged it actualy may end in death and even if it doesnt it rises the chance of heart diseases or cancer by a substential enough amount for it to show in medical data . So yeah , if someones hobby is wargaming then being unable to take part in it , can end in death.

Wow, then I should have died a while ago, because I wanted to play 40k really bad, but I was in high school and couldn't afford it then.

Oh wait, I actually do have clinical depression. Hearing it related to hobby handicaps is insulting. I play my hobbies to feel better. If I don't have the latest and greatest, I make do and save for it.

Is it time for this ridiculousness to be locked yet?

QFT and seconded

**King Pariah**

Hey Solo, the sad thing is that there are people who are clinically depressed who can be pushed over the edge by simply not getting something they desire for one reason or another (admittingly, this does seem silly and as someone who is depressed this to me sounds more like a case of stupid brat doesn't know how the world works). And Makumba definitely wasn't singling you out so why you took insult to this, is frankly, quite silly.

Someone shut this thread down.

**Skriker**

Hetelic wrote:
Secondly, Oil prices. Oil prices have risen rapidly over the last few years, especially with the wars in the middle east. This effects fuel costs, which impact Gw's net costs when selling models AND plastic is made from oil.. Increased oil prices will result in increased plastic prices.

As a commodity oil prices are always up and down and as does any other country that uses petroleum in their products GW uses the same excuse schema:

1) If prices go up they have to raise prices to pay for "tomorrow's" oil.
2) If prices go down they have to keep prices the same because they paid for the oil they already have.

So prices *never* go down in the retail sector. Just like airlines they raise ticket fees when fuel prices go up to $X, but never change them when fuel prices drop below $X. Eventually prices reach $X again and they raise prices *again* even though they already raised prices due to that price point.

All in all it is a great racket to be in.

Skriker

**Grey Templar**

Warmachine will probably be the game that challanges GW's dominance of the wargaming community.

But I doubt it will alter GW's prices or sales much. People are more likely to play both.

And GWs current customers won't stop playing 40k, they will simply slow their purchases until they have enough income to be able to afford it(IE: a real job in the real world) at which point its still cheaper then other more common hobbies, such as fishing, shooting, ATVing, camping, cars or motercycles, or smoking just to name a few. I really can't figure out how anyone can afford to smoke. $5 for a middle of the road pack that lasts a couple days, if that.

**SilverMK2**

Grey Templar wrote:
Warmachine will probably be the game that challanges GW's dominance of the wargaming community.

I really hope not... really don't like the aesthetic of Warmachine...

**Godless-Mimicry**

Am I reading this right? Are people actually saying GW should lower their prices incase someone with issues kills themselves because they can't afford a Codex? And I thought the internet couldn't get any worse.

**Skriker**

Makumba wrote:

very false idea about humans you have there dude . any psychologists will tell you that if someone is part of a group or worse wants to be a part of one and doesnt have the abilty to sustain the membership , which in the case of w40k would be having an up to date codex and army , then at best he is in for some mild depresion and at worse if prolonged it actualy may end in death and even if it doesnt it rises the chance of heart diseases or cancer by a substential enough amount for it to show in medical data . So yeah , if someones hobby is wargaming then being unable to take part in it , can end in death.

Here is how the rational and mature mind deals with this: Discovers hobby they enjoy is just too expensive anymore. Either continues on only with what they have, or they accept they cannot do it anymore, get sad for a while and then find something else to do that they can enjoy *and* afford at the same time. People who obsess about things they don't or cannot have need to be taught to stop obsessing about it. It is a mental dysfunction. People can waste their entire lives obsessing about things they don't have and ignore what they do have and do so all the time.

The key here is to change your thinking and mental habits, not just complain until people lower the prices enough for you to buy again, because there will always be something else you can't afford or another group you cannot be a part of that you will obsess about. The key is to be happy in life as yourself and not define that happiness by what you have and what you don't have. As soon as your happiness is abdicated to some outside source you will never be happy because no outside source has ANY control on whether you are happy or not. So people who say, "Life will be great if I just get that new car," and similar type statements will soon find life is not great because *they* are the impediment to them being happy and not their car.

Skriker

**Grey Templar**

SilverMK2 wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
Warmachine will probably be the game that challanges GW's dominance of the wargaming community.

I really hope not... really don't like the aesthetic of Warmachine...

Meh, its just different. I kinda like the Steampunk feel.

It also has many advantages over GW.

Its cheaper. $150 will easily get you a competitive army.

Its got great external balance between factions. None are better then the others.

Not to mention you can do some crazy stuff on the table, so even a game where you get creamed you can still have lots of fun(this does apply to GW games too though)

Just the other day I lost the game and the only casuality was my caster(on both sides) It was a really epic combo strike that led to assassination. Awsome is all I can say. So we reset.

Overall its simpler to get the hang of the rules, but it takes alot to master the subtle strategy of the game.

**Skriker**

Grey Templar wrote:
or smoking just to name a few. I really can't figure out how anyone can afford to smoke. $5 for a middle of the road pack that lasts a couple days, if that.

My father smoked when I was a kid and laugh today when I see that a single pack of cigarettes actually costs more than an entire carton when he used to smoke. Your estimate of a couple days depends on habits too. Some people smoke *2* packs of cigarettes in a single day. That is just stupidly expensive...not to mention buying minis you aren't destroying your lungs every time you "enjoy" your hobby...wow...

I have some friends who smoke and they complain about never having any money. I sat down with them and did he "smoking math" with them and it went in one ear and right out the other. With their level of habit they are spending close to $250 a month on cigarettes. That is a pretty sizable chunk of change for doing other things with in their budgets.

Skriker

**kronk**

My copy of the Codex, along with some of the HQ models ships to me this weekend. Can't wait to go through it!

**wowsmash**

I like war machine so far. Easy to get started.

**Skriker**

SilverMK2 wrote:
I really hope not... really don't like the aesthetic of Warmachine...

I don't think the key here is replacement, so much as start pulling enough people from the GW games to start GW to realize that they are being undercut in the market place and change their pricing schema. At least that is my take on the intent of the post you responded to.

What games like Malifaux, Warmachine and Flames of War have going for them is that their start up costs are so much less painful than 40k which a lot of new mini game players are discovering. Those of us who are established in the hobby and have 1 or more complete armies to use are not really impacted as much by the GW prices. I can honestly say, though, that if I never played the game and looked at how much it would cost me to make my first army today I probably wouldn't get into it, even with the amount of money I bring in. It is just ludicrous.

I guess the best analogy would be the slow lobster cook as opposed to the throw the lobster in the already boiling pot method. If you put a lobster in a pot of cold water and then slowly heat it up it will not really budge and allow you to boil it to death as long as the temp increase is gradual, whereas if you drop it into the boiling pot it fights to escape pretty aggressively. We old timers are the lobsters in the slowly heating pot. By now we have so much time and money invested in the game we are letting GW continue on to boiling us to death with highe prices, but the newbs run away screaming when they see how expensive everything is.

Skriker

Automatically Appended Next Post:

kronk wrote:
My copy of the Codex, along with some of the HQ models ships to me this weekend. Can't wait to go through it!

I got suckered into one of those advance release batches of stuff...greatly looking forward to its delivery, though.

Any duplicates on the plastic kits I want I'll order later from the Warstore.

Skriker

**DeffDred**

Skriker wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
or smoking just to name a few. I really can't figure out how anyone can afford to smoke. $5 for a middle of the road pack that lasts a couple days, if that.

My father smoked when I was a kid and laugh today when I see that a single pack of cigarettes actually costs more than an entire carton when he used to smoke. Your estimate of a couple days depends on habits too. Some people smoke *2* packs of cigarettes in a single day. That is just stupidly expensive...not to mention buying minis you aren't destroying your lungs every time you "enjoy" your hobby...wow...

I have some friends who smoke and they complain about never having any money. I sat down with them and did he "smoking math" with them and it went in one ear and right out the other. With their level of habit they are spending close to $250 a month on cigarettes. That is a pretty sizable chunk of change for doing other things with in their budgets.

Skriker

Pack of Marlboro is $6 here. So roll my own. I can roll a carton for $13. I'm a pack a day smoker.

Edit: Put the town not the brand

**SilverMK2**

Grey Templar wrote:
It also has many advantages over GW.

It can have as many advantages as it wants, doesn't change the fact that I don't like the look of the models

**DeffDred**

SilverMK2 wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
It also has many advantages over GW.

It can have as many advantages as it wants, doesn't change the fact that I don't like the look of the models

I agree. I'm starting Warmachine and only because I can tolerate the Mercenary Dwarf models. Everything else looks stupid and silly.

Why do all the monsters have hands larger than their torsos? How do their hearts pump that much blood?!

**Crystal Geyser**

Is there a way to shut down a thread? This getting way too heated in general and I feel responsible for inadvertently causing a log of needless tension.

**kronk**

Hit the yellow triangle on the top right of your post and send a message to the moderators about shutting down your thread.

**Crystal Geyser**

Thank you!

**timetowaste85**

KorPhaeron77 wrote:
I'm staggered by the overwhelming amount of "advice" which is basically saying "deal with it or quit". I'm sorry but it isn't that simple, when I started the hobby I believed it was fair to expect to pay for an £8 codex despite them being thin on detail and not very long, 8 quid was a small amount of my hobby budget so sure why not. Then they gradually crept up to about £12 over several years and it was also as the books started to get thicker and more detailed so I accepted it. Then they shot up to £17.50 and I thought woah this is a getting stupid now, especially as they even bumped the prices of the older codices like Dark Angels and I stopped buying new releases unless I actually intended on collecting an army. Now however a £30 price...almost double what it used to be...no I can't justify that anymore. And for all you in the "deal with it" crowd, yes I have unfortunately decided that I can't sustain the rising cost of the hobby anymore and I have ebayed 4 of my major armies already, some of which I've had for nearly 10 years. My point is, why should I have to resort to quitting because GW can't keep prices fair? I was a loyal customer for the past 14 years and I'll still buy BL books and take an interest in the fluff but I will not be buying for the game again.

As for the ebay crowd, fair play to you if you want to buy things second hand and slowly build your force. But what kind of buisness model is that! Imagine if Apple came out and said here's are 10,000 dollar Iphone 6, if you cant afford one then tough, why dont you wait 3 years and buy it on ebay and quit your bitching. Also another industry which many feel is over-priced; video games, they are priced highly yes, but a game 3 years out of date gets a price reduction not increase. Fine GW feels the need to make new vehicle boxsets £40 but how the hell can the justify rasing the price of all the 4-7 year old kits to match the new ones?

If we're all so reliant on ebay then what's the point of GW at all anymore, lets stop buying, let them go bankrupt, buy ebay models and work together as a community to create fan made codices and rule books instead. Hey we all hate GW updates anyway from all the complaing on dakka, who needs them.

Actually, it really is this simple: accept their prices or quit buying. There are enough people still going out and paying their prices, that the only way to really avoid the price hikes is to stop buying. Now, not buying=/=quitting. You can still play the game-play old editions, or everyone in your group can go in on an ebay purchase together for a book. Play your old models, don't get the new shiny flavors, and go with it from there. It really is a simple idea. If you choose not to, that's your choice.

**TheAngrySquig**

Crystal Geyser wrote:
Is there a way to shut down a thread? This getting way too heated in general and I feel responsible for inadvertently causing a log of needless tension.

Dynamite the internet

**Grey Templar**

TheAngrySquig wrote:
Crystal Geyser wrote:
Is there a way to shut down a thread? This getting way too heated in general and I feel responsible for inadvertently causing a log of needless tension.

Dynamite the internet

Oddly enough, thats quite possable. You just need to explode the Server Farm that's storing what you want destroyed, or the very least hack into it and eliminate it remotly.

Then you need to kill the backups, and the backups to the backups...

**TheAngrySquig**

Grey Templar wrote:
TheAngrySquig wrote:
Crystal Geyser wrote:
Is there a way to shut down a thread? This getting way too heated in general and I feel responsible for inadvertently causing a log of needless tension.

Dynamite the internet

Oddly enough, thats quite possable. You just need to explode the Server Farm that's storing what you want destroyed, or the very least hack into it and eliminate it remotly.

Then you need to kill the backups, and the backups to the backups...

Have I ever mentioned that its scary that you know that?

**Grey Templar**

Just takes a little research.

And I can ruin anyone's online reputation in about 5 minutes.

**LordOfTheSloths**

Hetelic wrote:
Rogues Gambit wrote:
At the very least i think that these discussions, even if they don't influence the company directly can change it's user base slightly.

I for one will not be spending any money at a GW store for quite a while to come, and you might call me morally bankrupt but i will find a cheaper way or even free way of getting the rules i need to continue playing.

What this means is revenue lost fo rGW on this occasion, and thats 1 thing that big companies will feel. Maybe in discussions such as these mor epeople will make an impact .

Secondly, Oil prices. Oil prices have risen rapidly over the last few years, especially with the wars in the middle east. This effects fuel costs, which impact Gw's net costs when selling models AND plastic is made from oil.. Increased oil prices will result in increased plastic prices.

In 2008 oil went over $140 a barrel. Today's price is about $92 a barrel. So that dog won't hunt.

Hetelic wrote:
Thirdly, what people seem to forget is when you buy a codex, you don't just pay for a book. Your paying for printing, rules designers, play testers, word processing, professional layout, CAD services ect ect. These costs all need to be recovered somehow.

All these costs were recovered just fine back in the days of paperback codices. Another excuse that fails.

Hetelic wrote:
I'm not gonna sit here and tell you the rule book is a "great" price. I do think it's rather expensive; however, if you wanna play it, you gotta pay it. Thats what it boils down too.

Or, like the quoted poster wrote, you could find alternatives, like buying one book for an entire group, or copying a buddy's book, or other more dubious alternatives.