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 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Am I reading this right? Are people actually saying GW should lower their prices incase someone with issues kills themselves because they can't afford a Codex? And I thought the internet couldn't get any worse.

No, you're not reading it right. To bolster the hilarious argument of "GW = Ferarri", someone posted that since miniatures aren't a basic human need, they are obviously luxury cars. Then the reply was "Well, studies have shown that depression is linked to physical symptoms when wants aren't met" more as a way to counter an asinine argument and not actually saying "this will totally happen."

Here's a list of other things that are luxury cars according to this argument, by the way:

Books
Television
Internet Forums
Luxury Cars
Video Games
Snack foods
Computers
Telephones

AH, someone not understanding an analogy there then

They aren't equivalent in every way, just that they share one equivalence - this hobby is not a necessity, similarly a ferrari is not a necessity

Just buy the book, or dont. Whining about it has absolutely no positive outcome, as you are an irrelevance to GW

I'm sure companies love negative advertising. Especially a company like GW which relies almost entirely on word of mouth to generate sales and interest.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
AH, someone not understanding an analogy there then

They aren't equivalent in every way, just that they share one equivalence - this hobby is not a necessity, similarly a ferrari is not a necessity

Just buy the book, or dont. Whining about it has absolutely no positive outcome, as you are an irrelevance to GW

I would add that harassing people that don't like the price similarly doesn't have a positive outcome, Mmm?

 Harriticus wrote:
Noticed the "Art of Halo" in the bookstore the other day. 200 pages, hardcover, and in full color with highly detailed pages. Was $20.....

Also remember that that book on hard cover came out over 5 years ago when the drop of halo 3 happened.........So new old price tag. You walk into any hobby stroes (not just game stores) and expect not to put a lot of money into a model train set, model helicopter, car, or etc. That is just naive. And actually insulting to your intelligence. If you pick any hobby in the world minus croche, you will spend money. If you do not want to participate, remember you drove yourself to the store. You bought the models. You bought the paints. All using you money. Suck it up

 wowsmash wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
AH, someone not understanding an analogy there then

They aren't equivalent in every way, just that they share one equivalence - this hobby is not a necessity, similarly a ferrari is not a necessity

Just buy the book, or dont. Whining about it has absolutely no positive outcome, as you are an irrelevance to GW

I would add that harassing people that don't like the price similarly doesn't have a positive outcome, Mmm?

Sure it does, it makes people with more money feel good about themselves/their purchases.

As for "Well we said ferrari but it's not equivelent in every way" then I offer a similar analogy: a pile of garbage. If words don't mean anything then GW = garbage.

I want a Ferrari. I can't have one cause GW took all my MONEHZ. Now I'm depressed and gonna jump off a bridge.


Really???

No offense but if that's the case you got more issues then not being able to afford a 50$ book. Seek council. Most local governments offer free therapy to low income (re: poor) people. Take advantage of it.

Not affording a luxury item you want is entirely a first world problem. Be happy you have that issue, and you know... Not leprosy and only getting a handful of flour per month to live on. Yeesh. Next topic pls??

Look, there seems to be a bit of misinterpretation that's generating some hostility. I'm going to rectify it.

Iam not trying to whine about the prices. Do I like them? No. Admittedly my original statement regarding the use of full color and hardback could indeed be perceived as whining, but that was not the intention.

Whining would be to just complain about GW's prices without trying to either change it or find a way around it. I know I can't change GW's prices, but I'm trying to find an alternative. That's the point of the this thread. Many of you have contributed great suggestions - ebay, friends etc are all great ideas.

But comments such as "quit your btiching" or "stop crying" don't really help anybody. I mean, they just don't. So if people could please stop that then I would be most appreciative.

Brother Gyoken wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Am I reading this right? Are people actually saying GW should lower their prices incase someone with issues kills themselves because they can't afford a Codex? And I thought the internet couldn't get any worse.

No, you're not reading it right. To bolster the hilarious argument of "GW = Ferarri", someone posted that since miniatures aren't a basic human need, they are obviously luxury cars. Then the reply was "Well, studies have shown that depression is linked to physical symptoms when wants aren't met" more as a way to counter an asinine argument and not actually saying "this will totally happen."

Here's a list of other things that are luxury cars according to this argument, by the way:

Books
Television
Internet Forums
Luxury Cars
Video Games
Snack foods
Computers
Telephones

Except the guy never said that, he made a comparison, not an equation. It's an analogy. But you ramp it up into this bizarre post, and then preach about others making 'asinine' arguments. Rich

 Crystal Geyser wrote:
But comments such as "quit your btiching" or "stop crying" don't really help anybody. I mean, they just don't. So if people could please stop that then I would be most appreciative.

Yeah good luck with that. You create a thread by posting a comment. The thread continues by others posting comment. You have no control over any of it except your own posts. Why do you keep trying to tell people how to post? If you have your answers then leave a happy man and let those beating the dead horse continue to do so at their leisure. Guaranteed the best way to not end a thread is telling people what not to post.

Skriker

GW are already charging above what the market will bare. In a few years the (relative) prices will start dropping again, or at least start matching inflation, and until such time its up to the individual if their products are worth buying. For me they aren't.

In the meantime I buy from Ebay and its ilk, GW haven't received a single penny from me in years and I have just finished a 2000 point Death Guard army which cost me about £100 (including 5 vehicles and almost universal Forgeworld bits).

 Skriker wrote:

 Crystal Geyser wrote:
But comments such as "quit your btiching" or "stop crying" don't really help anybody. I mean, they just don't. So if people could please stop that then I would be most appreciative.

Why do you keep trying to tell people how to post?
Skriker

Mostly because people are donkey-caves a lot

as far as finding an alternitive to getting the information in the codex, you have 2 legal ways of doing so. buy the book from the store or from a friend, or purchase the ipad app from the apple book store. other then that, your left with borrowing a copy or obtaining one through illegal means. either by downloading a pirated version, - wich can lead to virus and spyware problems, plus its illegal, or photocopy / steal it from a physical copy. obviously im not condoning or suggesting any of these, as they are illegal and can land you in serious trouble if your caught doing so.

what ive done in the past is just borrow a book. my friend loaned me his new IG codex when it came out, as he bought it but never built the army. since then the dex has become pretty much mine, as he has never asked for it back, and when i mention it he says i can hang on to it untill he needs it - in return he has a few of my WD issues. (the spearhead and stormraven issues i believe) so perhaps you can work out some kind of trade. if you have an army one of your friend collects, offer a trade. models for the codex. - this works great if you have a large collection of minis your not using, and just collect dust and your wife is on your case to clean them out of "her" "living room"...

as far as general GW price increases ...well... my thoughts have been posted and they wont change. so i wont bother reposting them. anyway, good luck getting your copy of the codex - but personally.... i just LOVE getting a new book. and if its done to a decent standard, like the latest brbs for fantasy and 40k, or the ogre army book... then i find the money is worth the product. some dont feel that way, and im not saying you should either way. but i guess thats life untill you actually decide to take the red pill.... here's a bunch of blue ones to tide you over.

 TheAngrySquig wrote:
Mostly because people are donkey-caves a lot

And telling people what not to post changes that how?

Anyone who's been in a computer forum for more than 2 minutes knows that doesn't work...

Skriker

 Skriker wrote:

 TheAngrySquig wrote:
Mostly because people are donkey-caves a lot

And telling people what not to post changes that how?

Anyone who's been in a computer forum for more than 2 minutes knows that doesn't work...

Skriker

Why not try? Dakka pretends to have really high standards

Wait Squig - I just noticed the quote on you sig.

Did I forget to tell you about that?

 Skriker wrote:


I don't think the key here is replacement, so much as start pulling enough people from the GW games to start GW to realize that they are being undercut in the market place and change their pricing schema. At least that is my take on the intent of the post you responded to.

What games like Malifaux, Warmachine and Flames of War have going for them is that their start up costs are so much less painful than 40k which a lot of new mini game players are discovering. Those of us who are established in the hobby and have 1 or more complete armies to use are not really impacted as much by the GW prices. I can honestly say, though, that if I never played the game and looked at how much it would cost me to make my first army today I probably wouldn't get into it, even with the amount of money I bring in. It is just ludicrous.

I guess the best analogy would be the slow lobster cook as opposed to the throw the lobster in the already boiling pot method. If you put a lobster in a pot of cold water and then slowly heat it up it will not really budge and allow you to boil it to death as long as the temp increase is gradual, whereas if you drop it into the boiling pot it fights to escape pretty aggressively. We old timers are the lobsters in the slowly heating pot. By now we have so much time and money invested in the game we are letting GW continue on to boiling us to death with highe prices, but the newbs run away screaming when they see how expensive everything is.


Skriker

This. Great analogy (I didn't think the Ferrari one was too far off, other than the fact that you don't need to have a group of other Ferrari owners around to enjoy it). I too am in the old timer group that continues to let GW boil me to death with their prices. I have several armies...and have had and sold many more over the years (now decades) and when I was in high school in the early 90's, living at home and working...almost all my disposable income went into buying Warhammer 40K (and helping build up GW into the behemoth it has become today) . Then, when I was in the Marines, living in the barracks with a steady paycheck and nothing to spend it on, I got loads more models, books, etc. Today, even though I make quite a bit more money, I have a wife...two kids...another one one on the way....the hobby has to take a back seat....and I find myself feeling like those kids who are priced out of it. At least I still have loads of stuff I got from over the years to work with though. The people just now getting into the 'GW' hobby have it rough.

My purchases have steadily moved to other game systems over the years, Warmachine/Hordes, Infinity, Malifaux, Flames of War (although they've been getting more and more GW-like recently)...because I can get more for my money. And more people are willing to start up these smaller scale skirmish games (again, FoW excluded). My last GW purchases were the Skaven re-boot, and then it was only to add a few things here and there. But then Jes Goodwin ( I cant decide whether to bless him or to curse him!) went and re-designed the entire Dark Eldar range...

I knew I was still just a hopeless plastic-crack junkie when I got a unit of the new warriors...then the Codex...then a battleforce box....then I went all in and did up the full army, complete with 3 Ravagers and 5 Venoms....It took me over a year to get it all, but I learned that I have a problem...and that I should probably get help.

Yes. $50 for a 100 page book with some color photos (That is REQUIRED to play the army you may or may not already have.) for me, is a bit steep. Malifaux has the little $15 rules manual and a big full color rulebook if you want the pretty pictures and back story. Infinity sells a nice hardback book, but you don't need it to play the game...the rules are available online for free. Privateer Press released a (close to) 150 page full color hardback book for each of its factions for $45 AND offered a full color soft back version for $10 cheaper....AND they released all of them (10) in the span of about 12 months....AND you don't need the books to play the game...as each model comes with a card detailing its stats, points cost, restrictions and special abilities.

Angels of Death was one of my first codex purchases, and I want to say it was $17.99? or somewhere thereabouts. I remember it was quite thick too, somewhere between about 130 to 150 pages...lots of color diagrams and photos, not to mention it had army lists for two unique Space Marine Chapters. Has inflation really gone up 200+% in that amount of time? No, They charge it because they can. Because chumps like me will still buy it to validate the hundreds (no, thousands) of dollars we've spent on buying their models for the last 20+ years. But I cant afford to buy one for all of my current armies...nor can I afford to keep updating them all. Sadly, I think I may have to end up selling off many of my models just to fund the few expensive updates I need to make to the 2 or 3 I keep.

As was stated before...me and my first world problems...

 Skriker wrote:

 TheAngrySquig wrote:
Mostly because people are donkey-caves a lot

And telling people what not to post changes that how?

Anyone who's been in a computer forum for more than 2 minutes knows that doesn't work...

Skriker

You understand that "quit whining about the prices" is ironically the exact same thing you're railing against, right?

So.... don't ask people not to make pointless posts about not whining, but making posts telling people to "stop whining" is ok?

Perhaps one of the very few instances in life where you can say "both sides are equal" and actually be correct.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Except the guy never said that, he made a comparison, not an equation. It's an stupid analogy. But you ramp it up into this bizarre post, and then preach about others making 'asinine' arguments. Rich

Just like the guy you quoted never said GW should lower their prices lest someone kill themselves. It's a hypotehtical to combat a stupid analogy. But you ramp it up into this bizarre post and then preach about asinine arguments. Rich

Brother Gyoken wrote:
You understand that "quit whining about the prices" is ironically the exact same thing you're railing against, right?

So.... don't ask people not to make pointless posts about not whining, but making posts telling people to "stop whining" is ok?

Perhaps one of the very few instances in life where you can say "both sides are equal" and actually be correct.

Ummm...who's railing against anything? I am just pointing out the commonality of the internet forum experience. Once you've had your say you have zero control over anyone else's say so it is silly to try and make them stop having their say. No railing. No whining. Just point of *fact*. No judgements of any kind from me. I really don't care what anyone posts. Note the effective use of those little orkie smilies to show that I find this whole topic pretty funny and amusing. Didn't realize that laughing at the forum experience is now considered "railing". Consider me chastised...not...

Some of us can comment on things without being personally upset or bothered by them in the least, such as this. The OP is free to also post whatever he wants, but seemed to be spending energy on worrying about what others were posting in the thread, which is something he has absolutely zero control over. Just offering advice to avoid wasiting the energy being concerned.

Skriker