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 wuestenfux wrote:
There should be a poll here to figure it out.

There should be a poll to figure out who committed the crime!
Unfortunately a poll would just be "I like this guy the most" rather than who is the most competitive HQ. In the end, it's rather a pointless question considering that you can't just take an HQ. If I could bring Eldrad on his own I totally would. Unfortunately I don't think he's worth guardians, rangers or dire avengers.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Unless GK or a Farseer with runes of warding are around.

Runes of Warding probably won't exist in a month and +3 leadership to psychic tests means he isn't too worried about the Aegis. Sure getting instant death'd sucks but he can really pick his fights since he's a flyer and is still more than capable of murdering most grey knight units.

I think Azrael, the Dark Angels Supreme grand Master. He is powerful with good wargear, and the ablity to make the Deathwing and Ravenwing troops. He can also pick his Dark angels warlord trait and can let any Dark Angels can use his leadership. He cant be beat imo.

Insane Smile wrote:
I think Azrael, the Dark Angels Supreme grand Master. He is powerful with good wargear, and the ablity to make the Deathwing and Ravenwing troops. He can also pick his Dark angels warlord trait and can let any Dark Angels can use his leadership. He cant be beat imo.

Failbaddon The Armless Warlord or Skarbrand could hand his ass to him on a silver platter if they got into Combat.. And, I've never played against DA (except that one time..) and they didn't use Azrael, so, I can't really judge on the support side of things x)

Eldrad takes the top (in my mind)....coming from a Tyranid player....and Swarmlord is pretty bada$$....

Forcing re-rolls of invulns, 4++, the ability to get Iron Arm AND Endurance, plus the ability to dish out preferred enemy or furious charge... Pretty beast....

I havn't played Failbaddon, so I can't judge him either, but see that bikes and terminators can be scoring units makes a very strong team.

Insane Smile wrote:
I havn't played Failbaddon, so I can't judge him either, but see that bikes and terminators can be scoring units makes a very strong team.

You've never played against Failbaddon?? How is this possible?? He's one of the best CSM characters, and one of the best killy characters too, I'm really surprised nobody has taken you on yet ;D

How is the Swarmlord not entering this discussion? I hate that thing.

However, this is such a biased discussion since the point values for each HQ vary so much. Is it fair to say that Eldrad is superior to St. Celestine, even though he costs twice as much? He should be superior and that is why you pay for him.

St. Celestine, while easy to kill (over and over again), is extremely annoying, keeps coming back, can be very killy against non-terminators.... AND is only 115 points.

Well, I'm gonna try to avoid the fail then.

Insane Smile wrote:
Well, I'm gonna try to avoid the fail then.

He's an extremely good character ;D And, you'll have to battle against him eventually.. He's inevitable


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roxor08 wrote:
Eldrad takes the top (in my mind)....coming from a Tyranid player....and Swarmlord is pretty bada$$....

Forcing re-rolls of invulns, 4++, the ability to get Iron Arm AND Endurance, plus the ability to dish out preferred enemy or furious charge... Pretty beast....

Swarmy has no Eternal Warrior=Owned by anything S10 ;D

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

Insane Smile wrote:
Well, I'm gonna try to avoid the fail then.

Forcing re-rolls of invulns, 4++, the ability to get Iron Arm AND Endurance, plus the ability to dish out preferred enemy or furious charge... Pretty beast....

Swarmy has no Eternal Warrior=Owned by anything S10 ;D

Well he is T6 so unless you have Enfeeble to go with your S10 i would suggest getting a force weapon instead.

Green is Best! wrote:How is the Swarmlord not entering this discussion? I hate that thing.

However, this is such a biased discussion since the point values for each HQ vary so much. Is it fair to say that Eldrad is superior to St. Celestine, even though he costs twice as much? He should be superior and that is why you pay for him.

St. Celestine, while easy to kill (over and over again), is extremely annoying, keeps coming back, can be very killy against non-terminators.... AND is only 115 points.

Insane Smile wrote:Well, I'm gonna try to avoid the fail then.

Forgot about that toughness, but yeah, a Libby or even Grey Knights would whup him ;3

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

Insane Smile wrote:
Well, I'm gonna try to avoid the fail then.

He's an extremely good character ;D And, you'll have to battle against him eventually.. He's inevitable


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roxor08 wrote:
Eldrad takes the top (in my mind)....coming from a Tyranid player....and Swarmlord is pretty bada$$....

Forcing re-rolls of invulns, 4++, the ability to get Iron Arm AND Endurance, plus the ability to dish out preferred enemy or furious charge... Pretty beast....

Swarmy has no Eternal Warrior=Owned by anything S10 ;D

Uh...the Swarmlord is T6 so it can't be instant deathed by S10 since there's the S characteristic can never go past 10 (short of Apocalypse with D weaponry) and therefore no conventional weapon can go past double his toughness. Also he can roll 4 times on the Biomancy chart meaning he has an incredibly high chance of rolling Iron Arm which gives him Eternal Warrior AND D3+S and T, making him almost nigh invulnerable to conventional weaponry and eliminating his weakness towards force/instant death weapons. Throw in the possibility of Endurance or Warp Speed which either gives him an additional layer of defense with It Will Not Die and FNP or +D3 attacks/initiative makes him able to both strike first hard and being able to take any blows back in return with almost complete impunity. Also force weapons used against him in the case where he doesn't get Iron Arm have to pass a psychic test on a 3D6 due to Shadow in the Warp meaning it is that much harder pulling off a successful kill even from guys like Grey Knights.

 Havok210 wrote:
My vote (from experience only) is Vulkan. Great character and so many buffs. Any list that is built around his abilities is pretty tough.

+1

Vulkan was the gak 5e.


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 Juggalo17 wrote:
I fail to see what my taste in music has to with anything at all. And the fact that you assume im of lesser intelligence simply based on user name only makes you look immature and pathetic. That being said I see that he can cast multiple powers etc but I still think compared to some of the other HQs mentioned he is somewhat under par

The run-on sentences and bad grammar did it for me.

Lysander hands down, S10 thunderhammer wielding beast, drop him with a pod of sternguard and see the tears in your opponents eyes...

Point for point a Tau Ethereal - 12" L10 and subborn bubble, with great special abilities and warlord traits all for 50 points.

azala wrote:
Point for point a Tau Ethereal - 12" L10 and subborn bubble, with great special abilities and warlord traits all for 50 points.

dude I was literally about to post the same thing.....

azala wrote:
Point for point a Tau Ethereal - 12" L10 and subborn bubble, with great special abilities and warlord traits all for 50 points.

Gives up 2 vps when he dies, and die he will. When your opponent gets two vps to your one for Slay the Warlord, you lose every time.

GK's with Brotherhood Banner auto pass there Force Weapon test so won't suffer any modifiers to psychic tests. So unless the Swarm Lord has the EW power up he is toast.

There is only one option: Mars Alpha pattern Leman Russ Vanquisher company command tank. If STR 8 AP 2 from across the table won't get you the beast hunter shells (instant death blast) will. Plus, any HQ that is not this model automatically loses on style points:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

Green is Best! wrote:How is the Swarmlord not entering this discussion? I hate that thing.

However, this is such a biased discussion since the point values for each HQ vary so much. Is it fair to say that Eldrad is superior to St. Celestine, even though he costs twice as much? He should be superior and that is why you pay for him.

St. Celestine, while easy to kill (over and over again), is extremely annoying, keeps coming back, can be very killy against non-terminators.... AND is only 115 points.

Insane Smile wrote:Well, I'm gonna try to avoid the fail then.

Forgot about that toughness, but yeah, a Libby or even Grey Knights would whup him ;3

Yeah but no....he's got 4 chances at Iron Arm which grants Eternal Warrior....Not to mention T of at least 7.... Good luck.

I still have to say Eldrad probably has more utility, but Swarmlord is probably 2nd best regarding combat effectiveness and overall board control simply because of his board presence...

roxor08 wrote:

Yeah but no....he's got 4 chances at Iron Arm which grants Eternal Warrior....Not to mention T of at least 7.... Good luck.

I still have to say Eldrad probably has more utility, but Swarmlord is probably 2nd best regarding combat effectiveness and overall board control simply because of his board presence...

He seems kinda vulnerable to any sort of AP3 high strength. 4 wounds no invulnerable at range right? Predator Annihilator will kill him on turn 2-3.

 Nitros14 wrote:

roxor08 wrote:

Yeah but no....he's got 4 chances at Iron Arm which grants Eternal Warrior....Not to mention T of at least 7.... Good luck.

I still have to say Eldrad probably has more utility, but Swarmlord is probably 2nd best regarding combat effectiveness and overall board control simply because of his board presence...

He seems kinda vulnerable to any sort of AP3 high strength. 4 wounds no invulnerable at range right? Predator Annihilator will kill him on turn 2-3.

Nope, 5 wounds. Don't forget with Biomancy he also has a high chance of regaining wounds from powers such as Soul Leech (S6 AP2 Assault 2 shots that let you regain a wound for each one that kills a model) or Endurance which not only give him FNP as an additional layer of defence from spammed high range weaponry but also It Will Not Die meaning he has a ton of chances to curb back a lot of damage you inflict upon him (which can be tough especially if he rolls high on Iron Arm, at T9 even Lascannons only wound on a 4+!). And also to be realistic you're rarely ever going to see the Swarmlord without his bodyguard of Tyrant Guard to soak up some shots for him which often makes claims of him being shot to death as a solo MC from range moot. Because in that case every heavy combat HQ could be killed easily by themselves on foot (i.e. Abbadon without a retinue/Land Raider, Draigo w/out Paladins, Ghazghkull without a Battlewagon/Nobz) but you don't factor that in because of course they're going to be in some type of transport/unit. In the same case we have to assume this applies to the Swarmlord to prevent it from being seen out of a realistic game setting.

im going to say swarmlord as not only is he amazing in combat WITHOUT psychic powers and nigh unbeatable with them, but also 18" synapse? prefered enemy/furious charge to a friendly unit? AND +1 to reserves and rerolls for outflanking! i think he's the best HQ for over all utility. combat monster, powerful psyker, very hard to kill and buffs your army all for only 15 points more than abbadon (who incidentally he would whup in a challenge)
oh and he has shadow in the warp aswell!

People keep saying: Vulkan, IF a list is made around him.. I don't really understand this as all he gives are TL Meltas and Flamers??? Could I have an example of such a list and how it would work on the tabletop, as I am interested :S

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
People keep saying: Vulkan, IF a list is made around him.. I don't really understand this as all he gives are TL Meltas and Flamers??? Could I have an example of such a list and how it would work on the tabletop, as I am interested :S

He also gives master crafted thunderhammers, which are quite good given that people love them some TH/SS termies. Anyways, I havnt had much experience with him, but if you get some sternguard with combi meltas, Termies in a LRR and some other meltas scatter around (like on land speeders or in tac squads/dreads in drop pods) I can see him doing very well.

 Nitros14 wrote:


Runes of Warding probably won't exist in a month .

Gotta say I much prefer this new Eldar codex to play against. +2 to deny the witch once a game isn't quite as scary

 Nitros14 wrote:

 Nitros14 wrote:


Runes of Warding probably won't exist in a month .

Gotta say I much prefer this new Eldar codex to play against. +2 to deny the witch once a game isn't quite as scary

Yeah, the Tzeentch Flying Circus and Heraldstar lists just got a LOT more lethal.

It has got to be Inquisitor Coteaz. He has a thunder-hammer, a 2+ save, he unlocks henchmen as troops, is a mastery level 2 psyker with divination and has a bunch of other abilities. For what you get, he is worth over 200 points quite easily. As he is only 100 points, he is an auto-take.

A special mention goes out to St Celestine, a tau commander with marker drones and a vanquisher command tank with beast hunter shells, but nothing is as good value as Coteaz.

We should just compare the hard stats and abilities. Honestly?
You're saying some librarian could spank an overlord, abaddon, and an avatar?
No way.