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 Evileyes wrote:
Orks are an odd choice, but I imagine you will not be playing your average boy, but rather a nob, or nob equivalent (Painboy=healer, Flash git for shooting, Nob for combat )

On the contrary, Orks are an excellent choice for an RPG. Unlike other races, orks genuinely thrive in battle, growing bigger and stronger in prolonged battles. This obviously lends itself excellently to a system where you level up off xp and get more health and higher stats, going from a yoof to a boy, to nob, to bigboss, to warboss. There's also, as you mentioned, a high degree of specialisation available to orks. All manner of oddboys with cool wargear available to them, or even just specialisations of your average warrior type: Lootas, burna boys, kommandos, stormboys, tankbustas.

Man, Orks are just made for RPGs. I don't know why GW hasn't made one yet.

Well the game wil be for PC Xbox One, and PS4 thats what the release says.

Qoute from their site:
Behaviour Interactive has obtained the rights to create a wholly new MMORPG persistent war experience for PC, PS4 and Xbox One set in Games Workshop’s universe of the 41st Millennium.

End of 2015.... lol

 Psienesis wrote:
You do know that some people play MMOs for the Crafting or Economic systems, and give not a single gak about the combat aspects, right?

As has been demonstrated time and time again by a long list of MMOs, PVP-focused gameplay winds up with a very hardcore, but very, very small, fanbase. This does not bode well for a title like Warhammer 40K.

This is very accurate, an MMO without an interesting economy will not last nor will it have broad appeal. Probably just as important is the ability to level up and do interesting stuff during solo play. A lot of people like to just log on and noodle around for an hour or so just to relax. This is how my wife likes to play FFXI and I know tons of players who just enjoy farming, crafting, questing.

There needs to be an interesting end game and people love their shiny gear so if there is not much gear to be upgraded etc, then the game wont last. There is so much known about what people expect out of a MMO but companies either cant afford or dont know how to implement stuff so time and again MMOs die off/fail.

A 40K MMO could be really amazing and fun or it could blow monkey chunks. It is way too early to tell how this one will do but it does not sound promising with the minimal info we have. If the only job is essentially "warrior" then this game will deserve to die a quick death.

 Griddlelol wrote:
On the extremely scant information I've seen, it looks weak. Way too early to say obviously, but I have very little hope for this.
MMOs tend to die rapidly even when they have mass appeal. Which a 40k MMO will have less of than say a game based on the Star Wars franchise...backed by a company with great RPG history and sharing a name with one of the greatest scifi RPGs ever. You know the one that lasted like 5 minutes.

SWTOR failed mainly because of the following:

a) The community of players, by and large, was terrible. This killed the RP communities, the PVE experience and the PvP experience.
b) The Devs made a conscious, active choice to fundamentally change certain storylines based on the gender of the character going through it. A personal friend of mine, playing her Twi'Lek Smuggler/Gunslinger, was *pissed* that her character's Story Quest was so sanitized because she played a female character. She, being a lesbian, was also pissed off that, though a Romance Option existed, it was entirely hetero, unlike other Bioware games released recently. She said she wouldn't have minded if it was something that she could turn off, but certain characters would constantly interrupt game-play trying to trigger the Romance Option dialogs. Eventually, she stopped using the offending Companions, at all, and then stopped playing entirely.
c) The PvP focus was badly balanced, and had never been designed with the concept that 95% of the playerbase would choose Sith.
d) Poor balance within the factions meant that, if you were playing Republic, you would reach Flashpoint stages of your quests, and progress would come to a screeching halt, because there were not enough Republic players of similar level and quest-progression to reliably run the instances.

@Psiensis, I am curious about your remark that the playerbase was terrible. What do you mean by this? Is your judgement based on playing, forums? Was it full of kids too young to be playing it?

I would expect the game to be full of players that were hardcore Star Wars fans and dedicated to the game?

I still an elite unit of guardsmen (Kasrkins, Grenadiers, Stormtroopers) have their place in there.

Otherwise marine it'll have to be.

 Evileyes wrote:
I think the last voice sounded very necron'y, I can't imagine the eldar saying what they said.

However, The game is due in 2015, so these might just be -some- of the potential races, they could come out with more, or else, do the MMO thing of releasing expansions with new races to play

I, honestly, cannot wait. At all

Very Necron. Oh man............

Just wanted to post this as this is ALL we have:

Behaviour Interactive and Games Workshop® proudly announce a new online game in the Warhammer® 40,000® universe: Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade. Behaviour Interactive has obtained the rights to create a wholly new MMORPG persistent war experience for PC, PS4 and Xbox One set in Games Workshop’s universe of the 41st Millennium. In the game, players choose a Warhammer 40,000® race and fight directly as one of their warriors in massive conflicts for territory. It will be up to each faction’s community to determine their own destiny as they vie for control of an entire planet.

You can cross out the Xbone given how colossally it's going to bomb with it's current policies.

I see two glaring problems with a 40k mmo...

1) 40k has always been more shooty than assaulty and shooter MMOs always seem a bit lacking (planetside is about the only one that is even remotely good, but even that one gets lame)

2) They will never be able to impliment every race without doing some HUGE lore revamping. So many races that are buddies with one race are hateful enemies of their buddy's buddy, so making 2 factions would be next to impossible (And Dark Age of Camelot comes to mind when theres more than 2 factions...bad juju)

I have ALWAYS wanted to play a Crisis Battlesuit in a MMO. this would eb a dream come true

 mattyrm wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Really not interested in video games anymore, but I hope this doesn't suck and pulls people into the 40k hobby.

How can you not be interested in being a black templar space marine and bludgeoning people to death whilst singing songs?

Its every little boy's dream come true!

Tempting, but life has added new hobbies and time sinks that detract from my old hobbies and time sinks. Computer games had to go.

a Gorkamorka style mmo game would be a lot of fun, or hey a necromunda X-com style game, or a Wargame airland battle 40k Epic game would rock.

but a PtP as spacemarine MMO game..hmm I sense pay to get meltaguns and other shenanigans in the mix.

Just give us cool ports of great 40k games and I would buy them in a heartbeat...BFG done on comp would be a preorder buy for me.

but meh..such is the game design media.

 Psienesis wrote:
You do know that some people play MMOs for the Crafting or Economic systems, and give not a single gak about the combat aspects, right?

As has been demonstrated time and time again by a long list of MMOs, PVP-focused gameplay winds up with a very hardcore, but very, very small, fanbase. This does not bode well for a title like Warhammer 40K.

There are games that do both VERY well. Eve-Online comes to mind. PvP focused gameplay for end-game but one can certainly delve deeply into production, exploration and missions.

I think the problem lies in that everybody seems to look at WoW and try to emulate too many of the properties that made it popular. Granted it worked very well for WoW, but without a game developed to basically have enough content to rival a game that has years of content already established...some paradigm breaking addition must be made. So far, no MMO has done so, and many have tried. Some were great ideas but poorly executed, and that caused them to not compete.

I'm curious to see what they attempt to add to do this.

Dakkamite wrote:
I mean why not just start the Imperial Faction as Imperial Guard? .

Space Marines are the flagship product/image/concept of 40K. It's just the way of the world.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakkamite wrote:
He *is* referring specifically to the tabletop game mate...

One Marine vs Five Orks? Money on the Orks every time.

Well, the tabletop isn't exactly very accurate in depicting the universe. It's just a rule set designed to sell armies of plastic toy soldiers. If you only needed 15 Space Marines to play, they wouldn't sell nearly as much overpriced plastic.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will say this, though. If it's a game based around microtransactions, it's definitely being developed by a company used to making Facebook and mobile games.

After reading that interview, my expectations have plummeted.

JWhex wrote:
@Psiensis, I am curious about your remark that the playerbase was terrible. What do you mean by this? Is your judgement based on playing, forums? Was it full of kids too young to be playing it?

I would expect the game to be full of players that were hardcore Star Wars fans and dedicated to the game?

Mind you, my perceptions are all based on the RP server that I played on from launch day to ~6 months in.

First, the chat channels on every planet were filled with the worst kind of neckbeards. SW Ep1 came out the year after I was born, and I can remember seeing ESB in the theatres, so I'm not some Johnny-come-lately to Star Wars fandom, but even I recognize that they're going to change some things for a video game, because of the play experience and, also, design and engine limitations. These people, though, would *not* shut up about any sort of "canon deviancy" they found in the game. They bitched, constantly, that all the PC races were humanoids (because when you have to design several hundred armor sets for a dozen different races and two genders, you're going to make this as easy as possible for your dev team, and having them all be humanoid is one way to do that) and there were none of the winged races, the sentient crystals in robot bodies, the Ent-like tree-race, or Hutts as playable characters, just to post some that I particularly remember people whining about.

Certain cliques within the RP community refused to allow player interpretation or storywriting. They wanted a strict, by-the-books-of-canon server-wide RP community. This, I can tell you, does *not* work in an MMO and, normally, that's ok, because you can have your canon-crusaders have their RP stuff over here, and then other people that want to RP as space-vampires can RP over there, and the drama-kids who are RPing in order to partake of whatever their fetish is this week can RP in that corner there, and everyone is happy.

That is not what happened in TOR though. People would disrupt each other's RP events. Not just the usual gang of trolls and douchebags who exist to make the MMO experience terrible for everyone but themselves, but people who were otherwise actively involved in the RP community. They'd show up at events to hurl dozens of Cryogrenades around, or spam the place with the various confetti and hologram devices. They'd have created a character as large and obese as one could, to stand on the bar and "teabag" people trying to RP. And, all too often, once you got to the later planets that were cross-factional, if a Republic character walked into the local cantina, 50 Sith RPers would then attempt to rape them, regardless of gender or race.

... and all this on top of the typical WoW-chat of 12 year old racists talking about the sexual proclivities of your mother.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Aside from that Orkboyz comment it looks really good.

But that comment is like, pure poison. It does not take five fething Orks to kill a beakie.

There's no way to know for sure how many Orks is necessary to take down one Space Marine. We can only know that ALL Orks in the immediate area will try to take down a Space Marine. I don't think there's a min/max number.

 Psienesis wrote:

a) The community of players, by and large, was terrible. This killed the RP communities, the PVE experience and the PvP experience.

Applicable to all MMOs.

b) ...poor role play potential...

This one is the only relevant point. A 40K MMO will have little role play potential anyway, faceless marine, faceless chaos marine, generic boy don't really have much in the way of personality or relationships.

c) The PvP focus was badly balanced, and had never been designed with the concept that 95% of the playerbase would choose Sith.

Similar to the concept that 95% (or another stat pulled from thin air) of players will want to play space marines.

d) Poor balance within the factions meant that, if you were playing Republic, you would reach Flashpoint stages of your quests, and progress would come to a screeching halt, because there were not enough Republic players of similar level and quest-progression to reliably run the instances.

Basically the same as point c).

I have even less faith that this dev team will do a good job, they mainly make mobile games as far as I can tell. If experienced game developers in bioware and EA can't do a good job, I highly doubt these guy will. I really hope they prove me wrong though. With the bar set so incredibly low by the previous attempt at a warhammer MMO they will at least improve on that.

Ok, I was pondering this today while I was out walking, how to make the game decent.

Cos I agree with the majority, its really difficult to make a pvp game genuinely work across the board, so how about this..

I play Space Marine still, its good on cap and control especially because nobody has better gear than anybody else, and it divvys the teams up prior to the game starting, to make it fair.

So why not, when you start the game, you have to play for an hour or two with each faction to get your ork/SM/Eldar or what have you to say, level ten, and once you have done all (4?) in the designated starter PVE areas, it then unlocks the multiplayer mode.

And you can play as any toon you wish after that, but when you go to take a planet, it connects to the server, properly divides the teams up, and then if needed, offers you a toon change, to make the teams fair.

We could have one of each character, and always enjoy levelling them all across the board, while the game divvies it up fairly, and puts the teams relative to loot and level and so forth.

It sounds kinda complex, but thats cos I'm making a pigs ear out of explaining my ramblings, basically like the BGs in WoW, but instead of having loads of different level ranges and loot tiers, one that is automatically updated and you can be forced to switch characters.

I think it would be fun, and addictive, because everyone likes levelling, and it would be cool to have a good roster of characters, instead of like one super powered bloke and loads you never play with.

What seems interesting to me is that it seems to be an action game in an MMO setting, rather than the dice roll style that nearly every MMO uses.

because everyone likes levelling

Actually, they don't. This is why "power level" services and bots exist. It's also why few games since WoW have attempted to be Everquest, no one wants to grind for a month to gain a level.

Especially in a PvP game, no one wants to be the scrub at the bottom who has no function or purpose but to be a bullet-sponge.

Few games since WoW have attempted to be Everquest?


Not really. Just few of them have succeeded because WoW owns that market so thoroughly and it's hard to break in.

No modern MMO (and, believe me, I play a lot of them) have tried to be Everquest. WoW didn't even try to be Everquest, it was Everquest Lite.

The exceptions are a very small handful of Korean MMOs, notably Lineage and Lineage 2, being that they kept the grindyness of EQ and threw away the Monty Haul reward system of WoW.

People forget just how hard it was to gain levels in Everquest prior to Planes of Power.

WoW succeeded as it did because it came to market amidst a perfect storm of Blizzard popularity, growing popularity/cultural awareness of MMOs, and first-generation burn-out on the investment of time that an MMO like EQ or DAOC required. No MMO before or since has been able to beat WoW. Most notably, WoW has failed to beat WoW and is currently hemorrhaging subscribers to the tune of millions per month.

 mattyrm wrote:
Ok, I was pondering this today while I was out walking, how to make the game decent.

Cos I agree with the majority, its really difficult to make a pvp game genuinely work across the board, so how about this..

I play Space Marine still, its good on cap and control especially because nobody has better gear than anybody else, and it divvys the teams up prior to the game starting, to make it fair.

So why not, when you start the game, you have to play for an hour or two with each faction to get your ork/SM/Eldar or what have you to say, level ten, and once you have done all (4?) in the designated starter PVE areas, it then unlocks the multiplayer mode.

And you can play as any toon you wish after that, but when you go to take a planet, it connects to the server, properly divides the teams up, and then if needed, offers you a toon change, to make the teams fair.

We could have one of each character, and always enjoy levelling them all across the board, while the game divvies it up fairly, and puts the teams relative to loot and level and so forth.

It sounds kinda complex, but thats cos I'm making a pigs ear out of explaining my ramblings, basically like the BGs in WoW, but instead of having loads of different level ranges and loot tiers, one that is automatically updated and you can be forced to switch characters.

I think it would be fun, and addictive, because everyone likes levelling, and it would be cool to have a good roster of characters, instead of like one super powered bloke and loads you never play with.

The only problem i have with this really is the fact that they way they have Freetoplay and paytoplay set up(free players are lowly orkboys becuse they are thinking there will be more free players than not and paying players get access to everything else) because i would be pissed off if i pay to play this game but every couple hours or whatever im forced to drop my character that im paying to have the privelage of playing to get stuck as an ork boy or chaos marine. Of course being a paying player i would get to level them up but I have zero interest in any faction other than Eldar(Since tau doesnt exist yet.

What i think they need to do is make bottom tier free to play for every race, imperium starts as Guard, and then you can choose to upgrade to SM or sisters or continue beefing up your lightly armored guard dude(for the few people that really dont want to be a SM or sisters) Chaos starts out as cultists, eldar start out as guardians(?) and of course orks start out as boys(Tau would probably start as kroot or maybe drones, then move up to FW and then eventually you move on to suits). I think that would give A LOT more people a lot more incentive to get in and get going before they start spending money......but then again......they need lots of orkies......

 Vineheart01 wrote:
I see two glaring problems with a 40k mmo...

1) 40k has always been more shooty than assaulty and shooter MMOs always seem a bit lacking (planetside is about the only one that is even remotely good, but even that one gets lame)

2) They will never be able to impliment every race without doing some HUGE lore revamping. So many races that are buddies with one race are hateful enemies of their buddy's buddy, so making 2 factions would be next to impossible (And Dark Age of Camelot comes to mind when theres more than 2 factions...bad juju)

Third edition was more assaulty, fourth edition had mixed (Skimmerspams rocked the world, but if you could consolidate into assault you murdered shooters), fifth was okay for assault, 6th is where we get back to 2nd edition shooting.

 Psienesis wrote:
No modern MMO (and, believe me, I play a lot of them) have tried to be Everquest. WoW didn't even try to be Everquest, it was Everquest Lite.

The exceptions are a very small handful of Korean MMOs, notably Lineage and Lineage 2, being that they kept the grindyness of EQ and threw away the Monty Haul reward system of WoW.

People forget just how hard it was to gain levels in Everquest prior to Planes of Power.

WoW succeeded as it did because it came to market amidst a perfect storm of Blizzard popularity, growing popularity/cultural awareness of MMOs, and first-generation burn-out on the investment of time that an MMO like EQ or DAOC required. No MMO before or since has been able to beat WoW. Most notably, WoW has failed to beat WoW and is currently hemorrhaging subscribers to the tune of millions per month.

Blizzard dropped from 12mil Subscribers in WotLK to 8.6mil currently. It's still the most popular MMO by far, and has more subscribers than most of the other MMOs ever had put together.

It is hardly hemorrhaging millions of subscribers per month.

 Psienesis wrote:

because everyone likes levelling

Actually, they don't. This is why "power level" services and bots exist. It's also why few games since WoW have attempted to be Everquest, no one wants to grind for a month to gain a level.

Especially in a PvP game, no one wants to be the scrub at the bottom who has no function or purpose but to be a bullet-sponge.

Yeah levelling is boring, FFXI had a nice resurgence when the developers finally listened to the players and made levelling faster and less painful to organize a levelling group. I still do not see how a game that is 90% pvp is going to have an economy that is interesting enough to bother with.

Eternal Crusade is going to be a niche MMO much like how Space Marine is a niche shooter. I'll probably play it as a secondary to WoW, to get a 40k fix when I don't feel like going to the local store.

Levelling

Yuck, I really hope they keep this to a minimum. Emphasise the MMO over the RPG aspect.

Space Marine multiplayer on a Planetside 2 scale, with a few RPG aspects thrown in would be my preference.