Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 kronk wrote:
Thank you for proving my example!

"You guys are playing a boring game."

Thanks. Appreciate your input. The fething door is on your right.

I really feel the need to ask you this: why are you going in a thread about not being excited by the Horus Heresy if you do not want to read messages about people not interested by the Horus Heresy? It's literally here, in the title of the thread. You could argue that the thread has no place in this subforum, and you would probably be right, though.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Thank you for proving my example!

"You guys are playing a boring game."

Thanks. Appreciate your input. The fething door is on your right.

I really feel the need to ask you this: why are you going in a thread about not being excited by the Horus Heresy if you do not want to read messages about people not interested by the Horus Heresy? It's literally here, in the title of the thread. You could argue that the thread has no place in this subforum, and you would probably be right, though.

Why are you asking me about defending 30k in a thread attacking 30k in a 30k sub-forum instead of painting your models?

I'm… well, good point. I am going to leave now and go buy some awesome “Jailhouse 41” T-shirt. I should definitely either work or paint when I'll be back. I have no doubt that you can understand what brings me to do stupid stuff like this though, given that you yourself do spend time defending yourself defending 30k in a thread attacking 30k in a 30k subforum instead of painting your models ^^.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

zedmeister wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Man, if only there were five or six other armies that weren't power armour you all could play in the Heresy.

It'd be cool if they had Ordo Reductor, Taghmata Omnissiah, Legio Cybernetica, Questoris Knights, Adeptus Titanicus, Solar Auxilia, Chaos Cult and Imperial Army armies. All of these are such missed opportunities for Forge World to really emphasize the non-marine aspects of the heresy.

No Dæmons then?

Also, I am quietly hoping to see the liberation of Stygies VIII to appear and to feature some unusual allies.

I fixed it.

Kriswall wrote:I think the main issue for me is with 30k has been mentioned several times. There is very little variety in what you can take.

You can have...
1. Humans in Power Armour
2. Humans not in Power Armour
3. Bad Humans in Power Armour
4. Bad Humans not in Power Armour
5. Small Robots made by Humans
6. Large Robots piloted by Humans

Am I missing anything?

My three main armies are Tyranids, Tau Empire and Necrons. Given the fluff, none of these will ever be featured in 30k.

Full disclosure... I used to work at Games Workshop. When I worked there, they had rules about what sort of events could be run. The main rule is that it had to include every potential player. You weren't allowed to run an event where every player had to bring Space Marines. From a 40k perspective, 30k feels like an exclusive event where only the Space Marines players are allowed to play. If you're a Xenos fan, you're out of luck. You either stay home, or buy some Space Marines.

1) As mentioned, you're missing Daemons.

2) I've played tons of xenos armies with my 30k army, and even written narratives about it. The Tau were a noncompliant, high-tech human empire that my Mechanicum were sent to steal tech from during the Great Crusade, the Necrons were a machine-intelligence controlled remnant from the Dark Age of Technology like the Faze V controller, and the Tyranids were indigenous life-forms on an unexplored but habitable world that resisted colonization.

Yeah, I forgot Daemons. As to the second point, I'm not willing to spend money on a lore heavy game where I'll be immediately expected to write my own lore.

Ultimately, I have no interest in 30k because I don't know anyone who plays it. It feels very much like a niche market WITHIN a niche market. I'm pretty engaged in the hobby and regularly go to multiple stores... GW and FLGS. I've never actually SEEN a 30k rulebook.

 Kriswall wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

zedmeister wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Man, if only there were five or six other armies that weren't power armour you all could play in the Heresy.

It'd be cool if they had Ordo Reductor, Taghmata Omnissiah, Legio Cybernetica, Questoris Knights, Adeptus Titanicus, Solar Auxilia, Chaos Cult and Imperial Army armies. All of these are such missed opportunities for Forge World to really emphasize the non-marine aspects of the heresy.

No Dæmons then?

Also, I am quietly hoping to see the liberation of Stygies VIII to appear and to feature some unusual allies.

I fixed it.

Kriswall wrote:I think the main issue for me is with 30k has been mentioned several times. There is very little variety in what you can take.

You can have...
1. Humans in Power Armour
2. Humans not in Power Armour
3. Bad Humans in Power Armour
4. Bad Humans not in Power Armour
5. Small Robots made by Humans
6. Large Robots piloted by Humans

Am I missing anything?

My three main armies are Tyranids, Tau Empire and Necrons. Given the fluff, none of these will ever be featured in 30k.

Full disclosure... I used to work at Games Workshop. When I worked there, they had rules about what sort of events could be run. The main rule is that it had to include every potential player. You weren't allowed to run an event where every player had to bring Space Marines. From a 40k perspective, 30k feels like an exclusive event where only the Space Marines players are allowed to play. If you're a Xenos fan, you're out of luck. You either stay home, or buy some Space Marines.

1) As mentioned, you're missing Daemons.

2) I've played tons of xenos armies with my 30k army, and even written narratives about it. The Tau were a noncompliant, high-tech human empire that my Mechanicum were sent to steal tech from during the Great Crusade, the Necrons were a machine-intelligence controlled remnant from the Dark Age of Technology like the Faze V controller, and the Tyranids were indigenous life-forms on an unexplored but habitable world that resisted colonization.

Yeah, I forgot Daemons. As to the second point, I'm not willing to spend money on a lore heavy game where I'll be immediately expected to write my own lore.

Ultimately, I have no interest in 30k because I don't know anyone who plays it. It feels very much like a niche market WITHIN a niche market. I'm pretty engaged in the hobby and regularly go to multiple stores... GW and FLGS. I've never actually SEEN a 30k rulebook.

That's a fair reason, but not a fault of the game. My hometown in America is about to run a 30k narrative campaign when I return from studying in the UK with 47 signups so far and here in the UK I play 30k more than 40k. Though we, in both places, allow the two systems to run together.

Nope, no interested at all. SM vs SM most of the time is boring. But this is less of a concern to me than the fluff.

The expanded background is something that should have never been written. Too much of the curtain has been pulled back, there's very little mystery anymore.

This is 10,000 years ago from 40k's present day. Longer than recorded human history so far, yet we know in precise detail almost everything about the movers and shakers of this time. I loved it when this era was left with conflicting histories and things that were considered myth were not revealed as fact. The HH had a certain charm to it as it was a set of stories that was quite literally passed down through generations of gamers, with little embellishments getting added with each retelling. It was this inaccuracy that made it great to me.

Now much of that is removed and we have Primarches with midichlorians. Maybe.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:
Theres more to 30k than just SM vs SM though. There's two separate lists for the Imperial Army, one of which has a number of army wide customisation options akin to Imperial Guard of old, and Mechanicum lists. Plus Chaos Demons and Imperial Knights are playable factions.

Whoah whoah whoah, that means that Space Marines are definitely not the absolute stars of the game and that the game is not completely centered on them to the detriment of every other faction.
Wait, no, actually it does not.

Really? 1) way to have a gakky attitude, 2) Mechanicum will usually beat marines, marines have 60/40 odds against Auxillia and Imperial militia, daemons have huge buffs due to a lack of fearless, knights play like knights. Since you already have a bias against 30k to begin with, why bother talking about it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimtuff wrote:
Nope, no interested at all. SM vs SM most of the time is boring. But this is less of a concern to me than the fluff.

The expanded background is something that should have never been written. Too much of the curtain has been pulled back, there's very little mystery anymore.

This is 10,000 years ago from 40k's present day. Longer than recorded human history so far, yet we know in precise detail almost everything about the movers and shakers of this time. I loved it when this era was left with conflicting histories and things that were considered myth were not revealed as fact. The HH had a certain charm to it as it was a set of stories that was quite literally passed down through generations of gamers, with little embellishments getting added with each retelling. It was this inaccuracy that made it great to me.

Now much of that is removed and we have Primarches with midichlorians. Maybe.

1) as said many times through this thread, SM vs. SM only is simply not true

2) I kinda see what you mean by the fluff, but there is still a lot left up in the air. Really, all the new books have brought out is a few more battles, more on how the crusade fleets functioned, what the imperial army/mechanicum was like, and some certain campaigns that the Primarchs (or other important peoples) were on

30k is way better than 40k... It's really nice not having to worry about D slinger xenos and that kind of stuff. I have liked everyone I met that plays 30k which I can't say about 40k.

 Brennonjw wrote:
2) Mechanicum will usually beat marines, marines have 60/40 odds against Auxillia and Imperial militia, daemons have huge buffs due to a lack of fearless, knights play like knights.

I don't think you understood my message right. I have no idea if Forgeworld is better at balance than GW, but that was not my point. My point was that the Heresy was just “Let's dedicate tons and tons of resource for the faction that already have a whole lot more miniatures and attention than every other faction… maybe maybe add a select few non-marine models in the mix”.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
2) Mechanicum will usually beat marines, marines have 60/40 odds against Auxillia and Imperial militia, daemons have huge buffs due to a lack of fearless, knights play like knights.

I don't think you understood my message right. I have no idea if Forgeworld is better at balance than GW, but that was not my point. My point was that the Heresy was just “Let's dedicate tons and tons of resource for the faction that already have a whole lot more miniatures and attention than every other faction… maybe maybe add a select few non-marine models in the mix”.

Gotcha, though I think your looking at it the wrong way. Yeah, it was probably green-lighted due to the space marine love that GW has, but it's also a setting that has a lot of fluff behind it for both xenos players AND imperium players. It's THE event that made 40k what it is today. The marine lists are more fun (and less cheese) then 40k lists, and the fact that it makes games against xenos less about bringing the best cheese, and more about having it look cool is something I appreciate. To each his own, but I honestly think it was a good thing.

 Brennonjw wrote:
Yeah, it was probably green-lighted due to the space marine love that GW has, but it's also a setting that has a lot of fluff behind it for both xenos players AND imperium players.

Well, my faction did not even exist at the time. Same for Tau. Necrons were asleep. Orks have a few mentions. I might be an Imperium player, but I am not interested in marine fluff, and not so much about mechanicus fluff (because the few stuff I heard about was not very enticing)…

 Brennonjw wrote:
It's THE event that made 40k what it is today.

Except we have not yet reached the part about the creation of the Imperium in its modern form yet, right? That happened after the Emperor's death. Sure I would be interested into more fluff about the creation of the Ecclesiarchy, and the various reforms that happened and inner fightings and how Fatidicus and the Temple of the Saviour Emperor managed to take over. But the best, and likely only, source of information on Fatidicus remains this:

Will the Horus Heresy even mention him? I am not holding my breath. He was “a well-respected and highly decorated Imperial Guard officer who served in the defense of the Imperial Palace.”, so we will know when the books reach that point… in a few dozen of years.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Well, my faction did not even exist at the time.

Then you can't be surprised that it doesn't cater to you, can you?

Where did I say anything about me being surprised?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Where did I say anything about me being surprised?

Wait so is your complaint that your faction isn't included? I don't get it.

I mean, unless you think 30k is 'badwrongfun' because it has Marines in it, but that sort of stance is patently ridiculous.

I am not interested in marines, and therefore I am not interested in 30k. How hard is that to understand?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I am not interested in marines, and therefore I am not interested in 30k. How hard is that to understand?

Because there is more to 30K than just marines?

I don't see what the big deal is. SoB are just Space Marines with curves, right?

What is the point of this topic? Is it just to piss on everyone else's bonfire?

Why would you go to a message board just to say "I'm not interested in what you are talking about" ?

It's a bit weird.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Because there is more to 30K than just marines?

Not much. Not enough to get my attention.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I am not interested in marines, and therefore I am not interested in 30k. How hard is that to understand?

Well, if it intrests you, there should be sisters of silence rules shortly. if you don't know, their basically an army of SoB, but less emperor-worshipy and more "everyone here is a psychic blank"

I heard about Sisters of Silence, but I don't know if they will have the things I like about Sisters (which are: crazy murderous zeal and crazy baroque wargear (which is more unique to them) due to being the favored children of the most rich and influential, and less sensible, organization of the Imperium).
I guess I will have a look at the Sisters of Silence when they come out, but if they are just “an army of all-female blank”, that in itself is not something I feel super excited about.
Not to say the concept is not exciting in general and that people are wrong to like it. Just to say it's not exciting to me.

 pumpinchimp wrote:
What is the point of this topic? Is it just to piss on everyone else's bonfire?

Why would you go to a message board just to say "I'm not interested in what you are talking about" ?

...and keep saying it over and over again so that we're up to almost 4 pages. Mostly it's an exercise in:

The four main reasons I prefer 30k to 40k.

- No Unbound
- No formation-hammer. Rites of War do exist, but they impose significant army restrictions in order to give your army a benefit (rather than 40k where Formations give your army benefits simply by virtue of having the listed units).
- LoW points cap
- Lack of codex churn

If these 4 things were applied to 40k, I think that game would improve tremendously. At the same time, I do see the appeal some players might have for formation-hammer, and "play with whatever you have", these just aren't selling points to me. I like army restrictions, force org charts, etc.

BaC models don't do much for me. They aren't bad, just they are a tad bland and everything looks basically identical (which might be the point). Forgeworld has some awesome models here and there, but for the most part there 30k stuff isn't really any better than 40k stuff, and indeed IMO its worse because (1) its resin, (2) its resin, (3) its resin, and (4) many units do not come with the options listed in the army list (or any options at all, for that matter).

Exhibit A:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:
Theres more to 30k than just SM vs SM though. There's two separate lists for the Imperial Army, one of which has a number of army wide customisation options akin to Imperial Guard of old, and Mechanicum lists. Plus Chaos Demons and Imperial Knights are playable factions.

Whoah whoah whoah, that means that Space Marines are definitely not the absolute stars of the game and that the game is not completely centered on them to the detriment of every other faction.
Wait, no, actually it does not.

Arguably the same could be said about 40k.

Nice job moving those goal posts. First it was that 30k is just SM vs SM. Now it's that 30k is almost all about SM vs SM.

Unfotunately SM vs SM is the way forward for GW, because that is the most appealing army to new players. However, I think that 30k is different because although it is effectively SM vs SM, there is more detail and the models are beautiful. However, I do wish that they would bring out more squads for different factions otherwise you end up with tacticals vs tacticals which I can imagine does get boring.
HH is more about the fluff, and the models rather than the actual games, I feel.

I think when B@C hit the shelves is when I decided to throw my lot in with 30k - it made it affordable (as much as any hobby really can be) to start a legion.

And to be honest, I love the 30k fluff more so than anything in 40k, even though it's basically just a recount of what's already been told in broad strokes. I love the characters (save the Primarchs, they suck mostly) and the wargear and the tanks, the ships, it's all...I dunno, better than the stuff from 40k.

That's probably not what I meant, but the idea of being able to make an army of not-psychotic-warrior-monks-that-run-around-screaming-litanies is pretty cool. If you don't like 30k, I suppose that's the same as anything else - I don't really care if you don't, have fun doing what you like doing and I'll do the same.

Kinda. I already have a fullsized SM white scars army. and while that CAN be a HH army im not sure I wanna.
All humans kinda make HH look boring to me. Like, really boring.
If I do a 30k army, it might be Admech so I can mix with my 40k admech that i plan on doing one day.

All I can say after reading this thread is I see a bunch of people with no imagination or zero knowledge of their own "left out" races fluff pissing and moaning in a forum section that has no relevancy to their preferred part of the hobby. And that to me is really sad, that people can't wait to piss all over others fun cus it isn't their fun.

Edit: this in no way refers to everyone. Exercise some comon sense in figuring out who this is directed at.

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:
All I can say after reading this thread is I see a bunch of people with no imagination or zero knowledge of their own "left out" races fluff pissing and moaning in a forum section that has no relevancy to their preferred part of the hobby. And that to me is really sad, that people can't wait to piss all over others fun cus it isn't their fun.

Edit: this in no way refers to everyone. Exercise some comon sense in figuring out who this is directed at.

I completely agree.
I don't play 30k (yet) and totally find it fun. It has plenty of fluff, balanced rules, great models and all that comes together to make a fun game, and that's really the main point people should focus on.
I very much disagree with point of this thread which is utter pessimistic ideals.

If you don't like the hobby go do something more beneficial to society instead of just complaining.