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A las-gun suppressor could shift the wave length of the light to make it harder to detect (pushing it to either end of the spectrum). Of course you can't actually see lasers of any color unless they're traveling through something (like smoke or dust), but on a battlefield there'd be plenty of that around.

I wonder about that when i see cover art for Gaunts Ghosts.

I dig the advice, sorry for hi-jacking the thread!!! I will have to work on the las-gun stuff and get back to ya'll with a post of my own!

It depends on what kind of energy you are looking at. A laser regardless of size generates a lot of heat, a suppressor might reduce the heat given off of the actual lascannon itself, reducing the heat signature of the dreadnought.

Or a blanket. This is Grimdark-land, get your voodoo heresey science-magic outta here!

You can get Flash supperssors, so Lasguns would definately make sue of those, and according to some of the Novels (most actually) Lasgins make a rather sharp Crack when they fire, so a sound dampner would be pretty fluffly too.

Or as Whale says,
blankets are good.

Good point. Although the idea that a Light emitter makes a crack is silly... But then again so are most laser guns in most sci-fi settings.

thegrav wrote:I dig the advice, sorry for hi-jacking the thread!!! I will have to work on the las-gun stuff and get back to ya'll with a post of my own!

No worries thegrav, it's kind a fun to see the thread assuming a life of it's own on occasion. Especially when my meaningful contributions are rather few and far between.

@gitsplitta: So for years I have been running Tanith first and only, however I have been wanting to build my own world. I have a mixture of Cadians and Catachans at my disposal, so I think I am going to take the inspiration you have provided and come up with something. I love what you have done by rebuilding/re-imagining the Mantis Warriors, but how did you start? The GS camo cloaks I made will be easy to either work in or scrap, however with the exception of my Guant HQ unit, I will need to stripped down and re-paint all my guys.

How did you sit back, look at it all, and what did you do first?

Hmmm.... good question.

Part I:

This will probably be a very unhelpful answer... but it's the truth. I've been playing Mantis Warriors for roughly 20 years on-and-off, with nothing more to go on than the 3(?) paragraphs in the original rule book & the two pictures (all of which are on the first page of the blog). During this time, I've had a lot of time to think about the chapter, roll things around in my head, try different "theories" out in a series of endless mental exercises. Don't read too much into this... they were just my constant companions over all that time, so I had a lot of time to kick things around. Also they were never my "first" army... so rather than getting the full force of my attention... they just kind of percolated through my thoughts... rising to the surface occasionally when something interesting occurred to me. The advantage here is that I never felt that I had to "force" a solution or answer... so I could let my ideas sort themselves out over years without any need to meet a deadline.

Part 2:

There is a LOT of my personal gaming/hobby bias in the current incarnation of the Mantis Warriors. The fact is, I don't like painting vehicles... and I was attracted to the hobby at a time when there were almost no tanks... (anyone remember the glue bottle or deodorant stick eldar grav tanks?). So for me, the dreadnoughts and terminators were the gods of battle. While GW has every right to slant the game towards mech if it suits them, and I know a lot of people love to play with tanks... it's just not my thing... not my personality. Actually, in writing this... something else has just occurred to me that I never put together before. For slightly longer than I've played 40k, I've been involved in a medieval recreation society where I partake in armored/martial combat. So the idea of armored men... from marine to dreadnought, meeting each other on the field of battle for the honor of their lord makes sense to me... it just fits. Tanks, cool as they are... I can't relate to because I have no personal experience in that realm. As a result, my bias is to build an army without wheeled or tracked vehicles because they do not fit my "vision" of heroic combat. (and don't read anything mundane into this... I'm just talking toy soldiers here... not RL)

Part 3:

Logic. If I was going to attempt this process, stringing together Part 1 & 2 would have to make sense. I'm scientifically trained... so even something like this needs to make some degree of sense for me to be satisfied with the end result. So I laid out all the facts I had relating to the Mantis Warriors and old GW fluff I knew and loved, as well as those artificial limitations I put on myself (no wheeled or tracked vehicles). Then I sat down to figure out how to get from point A to point B in a believable manner. Luckily, I had 20 years of nebulous ideas to draw from for a start... but for the most part I just used common sense... or at least what passes for it in Gitsplitta's world. What would happen to a chapter separated (banished) from the Imperium for 100 years? How could you successfully pursue a campaign against an enemy into the heart of it's own territory when you had no resources to draw on? How did they stop from falling into chaos? How would the look of the chapter change as men and machines were lost, never to be replaced? What compromises (heresies) would they have to make to survive the ordeal? Why would they be recalled and how would the Inquisition even know to do it? What would the rebuilding process look like? What aspects (if any) of the "Crusade configuration" would be retained and perpetuated in the chapter from that point onward? There were many others... but this gives you some idea of my process.

Part 4:

Dakka. This project would not be possible without the feedback I got HERE in the first, vital stages of preparation. Look at... oh, the first 5 pages. Basically all text... but pivotal to everything that goes on afterwards. I state my ideas, get feedback, modify my ideas accordingly, have epiphany leading to new ideas, etc. The only catch here is that you have tp present solid concepts for people to critique... presenting a few sketchy notions will rarely get you the valuable feedback that you need to improve your work. Give 'em something to chew on and don't be afraid to take negative criticism... embrace it, take it to heart, look for the truth in it. Then either change your ideas or defend them. Oftentimes I did not take every piece of advice offered, but I gave each one close scrutiny and consideration. When I was finished, I was more certain of the path I had chosen than before I was challenged on it. Defending your ideas is often an excellent way to clarify them.

Part 5:

Be true to yourself. Don't run from your natural talents, biases and abilities... rather embrace them. Make your army an extension of your own personality... it'll look better, be easier to understand and easier to run that way... and you'll have fun just being able to put it onto the table, regardless of the result. It may or may not be competitive... but it'll be YOUR army, not something popped out of a book or pulled off a BB or dictated to you by the latest, greatest uber-gamer. I don't suggest you have to build a stinker... I certainly plan on figuring out how to win with this army... but if the HOBBY aspect is important to you... then have a vision & stick to it, you'll be happier in the end.

Part 6:

Painting/Modeling: Since my Mantis warriors are the culmination of a multi-decade process, I decided to approach each model as if it was an independent character (from a P&M standpoint). Obviously I'm not a Golden Demon quality painter, but I'm making no compromises for speed and I'm getting better with time. So each model I produce is my best effort, which is why I have so few figures completed. That's fine... it took me all those years to get to this point, I can wait a bit longer to be done.


*Edited for content as I was half asleep when I wrote most if it last night...

Phew i finished reading it! You went into a lot of detail, bravo!

Yeah, that's a thorough and rather personal overview of your approach to the Hobby, thanks for sharing that with us...

Don't worry about being a bit slow, just go your own pace!!!

Cheers,

Got my little photo booth the other day and this was my first chance to experiment with it. Have to get some different bulbs as the color is way off & need practice adjusting the settings on my camera... but having more than a half centimeter of depth-of-field is nice for a change. Here are a few experimental shots just for fun...

WM's sternguard... in focus.



My one painted dread, both shots in the booth but the one on the right is maximized for depth-of-field.



Close up of the big banner on the dread... don't think I've ever shown this before. Problem with detail of this nature is that you can see where I've screwed up (like leaving the "n" off of "Be it known".



You remember this guy... sniper #1, this time in focus from barrel tip to body! (I have no idea how the tip of the grass got bright red)



Lastly a fun bit... you can see the reflection of my lighting set-up in the booth in the clear coat I put on the lens of the scope. One incandescent light on either side, and one doughnut shaped iridescent light over the top. Neat eh? I think that large, roughly oval mark there is something on the camera filter.

I know where that banner came from! Looks like you had it on the ammo box and then moved it down.

Yep, you're right. Must have forgotten to cover that up.... I'll take care of that this evening. Thanks for pointing it out... some times you look at a figure enough that you don't even "see" the problems any more, even if they're obvious.

Thanks for the food for thought. I have been playing long enough to have Chapter Approved and remember when Vehicles weren't so easy to find/affordable! Anyway.

Most of my formal education is in illustration, creative writing and concept development/design... not really skills I use at Starbucks... grrrr... So I have a 40k World that I have kicked around in my head for awhile, I just have never set it to paper, except for the odd note here or there. These notes usually dealing with things my Special Characters in my Word Bearers of DE have done. My current idea is to more completely develop that world, figure out how it ticks, what has happened there and why the make-up of the PDF is normal guard/catachan. From there I think I will move forward with as much/little help as I can get from Dakka.

Although I love the Tanith, they are not my own, and I am craving that creation more and more. You sir have truly inspired me!

More to come, when I can.

Sounds exciting thegrav, can't wait to see what you're up to! Assuming you start your own P&M for the project, you're welcome to announce it here so my 3 or 4 readers can swing by and check it out.

Writing things down is essential to keeping it all straight and remembering your good ideas, but it's one of the hardest things for me to do... it's a lot easier for me to model and paint than it is to come up with a plausible story and put it into prose. With your background and training it should be natural for you, that'll help quite a bit.

Special characters are the one thing I haven't really spent hardly any time thinking about. I worked up a good story for my Telion surrogate, but that was in response to just acquiring the figure... and I'm working on ideas for my MoTF... but again, that's fairly recent activity. All of my previous thoughts about the Mantis Warriors have always been army/chapter-oriented rather than character-oriented, with the exception of adding the cannoness into the command squad... she's been around for a long while.

I finally finished reading this blog. It took me a few days (at work) but I'm truly impressed. I would love to put my Red Corsairs against these Rebuilt Mantis Warriors! It would be like LeBron James with Miami's first game Vs. The Cavaliers! Alot of Heat! HA!

After reading this I kinda want to add some MW's to my Corsairs as a tribute. Tho I'm not sure fluff wise if there would be any that would remain before returning to the imperium or any of the other chapters during the Badab War.

@Styrofoam: Would LOVE to have the chance to pit our armies against each other! It would be a CLASSIC!!

I'll make you a deal... if you paint a Corsair for me... I'll paint a Mantis Warrior for you. We'll each figure out how we're going to incorporate the model into our respective armies, and we each do the build so we have what we want gear-wise... but we'll do the painting for each other. That way you have an authentic MW and I have an actual Corsair! We could always paint each other's colors... but that's not the same as having it done by the person running the other chapter... that's much cooler. Perhaps there were some members of each chapter "stranded" with their allies when Badab went to hell. Perhaps not all corsairs were converted to chaos before the end of the rebellion, thus when their chapter fled, they stayed on with the MW's to attone for their misdeeds, or perhaps some MW liaisons to the corsairs became tainted during the war and fled with them. I think it works... as least as far as I'm going to worry about. It is very fluffy and could add some interest to both our armies.

Actually building a tainted MW would be a peach.... I'm jealous already.


Catching up on things I forgot to respond to:

@Finchclaw: Eh, I tend to be a bit long-winded... comes from feeling the need to be correctly understood... which probably comes from having an over-inflated view of my own opinions.

@Yggdrasil: Thanks, for me the hobby is very personal... so it's hard to talk genuinely about it here with moving into that realm from time to time. I'll keep moving forward... just get's frustrating at times when I seem to make no progress while the painting projects and neat conversion ideas continue piling up. (tru-scale marines, movable door drop pods, MoTF conversion, jet bikes, etc...)

That sounds awesome! It will be like switching jerseys after a soccer game

although my painting is not up to your par (I have way too many sports analogies)

I've looked at the shots you have in your gallery... I'm fine with it. It's far more important to me to have an authentic Corsair, then just have a Corsair-like figure painted the same way I would do it.

When you're ready you let me know & we'll sort out the details then.

I love your use of the old "pointy heads". They really throw a lot of character into the models

@Styrofoam04: Actually, while you could have a tainted mantis warrior in your list, I couldn't have a Corsair in mine as at the time of the rebellion they were the Tiger Claws... not the Red Corsairs. However.... my Mantis Warriors don't yet have any dedicated objective markers. If I put a seriously cool chaos marine blazing away on a 40mm base (as like a Corsair accidentally stranded) it would make a great and very fluffy objective marker for me (trying to capture the stranded Corsair for inte. etc).

@ Samus: Most of the marine figures I own are beakies... dates the era that I started playing 40k (those were bought NEW)

That would be really cool. It would be like a Raiding party that was overrun and he is the 'last man standing' surrounded by empty shells, magazines, and bolters! I'll prolly open a WIP and we can work on the details. I'm pretty excited!

edit: I have started a post on this here 'Last Corsair Standing'
Gitsplitta: Can post any ideas of what you would like there. thanks

If you kids want I'd be happy to jump on said trades as well, though mine are much more boring :( DA or BA, which ever (I know I already have a MW Vet comming)

Well.... I think I just set a new first... I'm about to hijack my OWN thread!


So, Styro and I and going to do mini's for each other's armies... looks like we're going to both build *and* paint. He's going to do an objective marker Red Corsair for me, I will do a yet-to-be-determined chaos tainted Mantis Warrior for him. I encourage everyone to head on over to his blog and give him a hand as you all have done with me. He's got solid basics but hasn't done a lot of converting so I'm sure giving him some helpful tips will be most appreciated.

I have a number of ideas forming in my mind.... but until I know what type of marine he wants & any special war gear to include I cant really go any further. In any case this forum will be open for any and all suggestions. I'll WIP the whole project so their will be lots of opportunity for folks to speak up & contribute.


In the mean time I'll continue to work on my regular MWs as planned. Lots to do.... busy, busy, busy.


@whalemusic: you and I are already doing multiple exchanges... though eventually I'd like one of your boys too. Love the idea of collecting /trading marines from other people armies, though I'm thinking that it would be neat to do a "Legion of the Damned" approach so I could actually play with them (I think that's the right unit, isn't it?) Paint the head and half the body in the original chapter colors & the rest black... I know it's supposed to be all black, but at least my way enough of the figure is in the chapter colors that it shows the original gamer's work off a little bit.

Just a thought...

I believe the current tactical squad set has 2 or 3 beakies. I much prefer the beakies

I'm in for the exchange if you allow SM chapters of original design. othewise I have to consider my original Badab war concepts. And in retrospect, you have all the beakies now!

Irony - thou I can do them with our helmets.

Git - LotD would be nifty, if quite tricky. LOTS of converson work, plus doesn't quite match some of the fluff and theories out there
SL - I'd be game for Homebrew as long as others are game for my boring DA and BA!

We may have to get a seperate blog goin before we jack Gits to death, lol.

I really like your Mantis Warriors and you've painted the camo patterns really well on the vets. Your dreadnoughts are great and after reading through 21 pages I felt I should make a comment It's also nice to see another person who thinks logically about their army and it's fluff. I'm looking forward to seeing your corrupt Mantis Warrior.

Keep up the outstanding work.

Yours

Gathering Storm