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IvanTih wrote:And we have official 610 gigaton torpedo calc.

That's exactly my point. 610 gigatons is insufficient to atomise a continent as each torpedo delivers 2.6e^21J. Boiling an ocean would require the directed output of around one million torpedos. Water has an enthalpy of vaporization of 40.65kJ/mol. Atomising a continent would require significantly more torpedos. The Earth's crust is mostly Silicon Dioxide. Silicon has an enthalpy of vaporization of 359kJ/mol. Silicon is also 2.3x denser than water. So we'd probaby be looking at maybe 14x (conservative?) A ship firing a broadside of a 14 million torpedos seems beyond the scope of even 40k. Ergo, either the 610GT figure is wrong, or the claim that a torpedo barrage can atomize a continent is wrong. I'd like to emphasize the atomize part of the quote. Crust busting melta torpedos don't atomize.

Then you have the 22PT novacannon calc at 9.2e^25. A novacannon is supposed to be the upper end of starship weapons. So large and unwieldy that they're only fitted to the largest ships. Without knowing how long the "beam cannon" capable of vaporizing the oceans of a world is firing for, all we know is that the power needed is around 20x the power of the most powerful starship gun one will normally encounter in the IoM. The novacannon is also problematic in that it is a projectile weapon. Does the void shield stop it or not. If it doesn't, then I'm not sure what good torpedos are, as even at 610GT, they on the magnitude of are 10x^5x weaker. This difference in magnitude is about equavalent to comparing the impact of an AK-47 round vs the impact of a 55ton aircraft at landing speed. As you might note, the former isn't going to do much damage to something designed to withstand the latter... Ergo, either the novacannon numbers are wrong, or the torpedo numbers are wrong.

While I know you are horribly enamoured of Connor's calcs... I'd take them with a grain of salt considering that despite GW's writers lack of consistency with following established continuity, he's opted to err towards the upper limits of the numbers rather than take a more conservative stand.

You know. Its really getting kinda well, rough won't?

I reckon a Wild Card character out of Savage Worlds Thrilling Tales could do it.

On the grounds that they can't die, and always escape to fight another day.

keezus wrote:

IvanTih wrote:And we have official 610 gigaton torpedo calc.

That's exactly my point. 610 gigatons is insufficient to atomise a continent as each torpedo delivers 2.6e^21J. Boiling an ocean would require the directed output of around one million torpedos. Water has an enthalpy of vaporization of 40.65kJ/mol. Atomising a continent would require significantly more torpedos. The Earth's crust is mostly Silicon Dioxide. Silicon has an enthalpy of vaporization of 359kJ/mol. Silicon is also 2.3x denser than water. So we'd probaby be looking at maybe 14x (conservative?) A ship firing a broadside of a 14 million torpedos seems beyond the scope of even 40k. Ergo, either the 610GT figure is wrong, or the claim that a torpedo barrage can atomize a continent is wrong. I'd like to emphasize the atomize part of the quote. Crust busting melta torpedos don't atomize.

Then you have the 22PT novacannon calc at 9.2e^25. A novacannon is supposed to be the upper end of starship weapons. So large and unwieldy that they're only fitted to the largest ships. Without knowing how long the "beam cannon" capable of vaporizing the oceans of a world is firing for, all we know is that the power needed is around 20x the power of the most powerful starship gun one will normally encounter in the IoM. The novacannon is also problematic in that it is a projectile weapon. Does the void shield stop it or not. If it doesn't, then I'm not sure what good torpedos are, as even at 610GT, they on the magnitude of are 10x^5x weaker. This difference in magnitude is about equavalent to comparing the impact of an AK-47 round vs the impact of a 55ton aircraft at landing speed. As you might note, the former isn't going to do much damage to something designed to withstand the latter... Ergo, either the novacannon numbers are wrong, or the torpedo numbers are wrong.

While I know you are horribly enamoured of Connor's calcs... I'd take them with a grain of salt considering that despite GW's writers lack of consistency with following established continuity, he's opted to err towards the upper limits of the numbers rather than take a more conservative stand.

Those 22 petatons are kinetic impact,not the explosive warhead IIRC:
Hellfire aren't only class of torpedoes used by the Imperium.
Connor attempts to be conservative.He said 40k is on par with SW.Again we have Horus Heresy as example.
Those torpedoes from Nemesis are Cyclonic.
@AndrewC
Those 690 gigatons contradict everything we see on screen.

Doesn't the Imperium also use Novacannons? Hellmissles? Yeah Imperial weapons are quite diverse, they don't use the same weapon every time that would be stupid.
It would be stupid, if the imperium only had one weapon to use in ship to ship combat. As the Necrons and the Eldar, Would develop armor that could deflect it.

Asherian Command wrote:Doesn't the Imperium also use Novacannons? Hellmissles? Yeah Imperial weapons are quite diverse, they don't use the same weapon every time that would be stupid.
It would be stupid, if the imperium only had one weapon to use in ship to ship combat. As the Necrons and the Eldar, Would develop armor that could deflect it.

No way,you can't deflect torpedo.
Necrons are the foe which is an order of magnitude above IOM.Since I remember about Necron escorts destroying Chaos cruisers.
Eldar have more powerful weapon,but the downside is the durability.

Hellfire missles are torpedoes. They are used on gunships. Are you talking about the Torpedoes used by Grand Cruisers, Cruisers, Battleships? Yeah I think there should be more variety of weapons!
DAMN YOU GW MAKE MORE BATTLE FLEET GOTHIC LORE! IT IS TOO BOARD!

Asherian Command wrote:Hellfire missles are torpedoes. They are used on gunships. Are you talking about the Torpedoes used by Grand Cruisers, Cruisers, Battleships? Yeah I think there should be more variety of weapons!
DAMN YOU GW MAKE MORE BATTLE FLEET GOTHIC LORE! IT IS TOO BOARD!

Yeah those are torpedoes used by larger ships and they are worth 1 point of damage.

IvanTih wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:Hellfire missles are torpedoes. They are used on gunships. Are you talking about the Torpedoes used by Grand Cruisers, Cruisers, Battleships? Yeah I think there should be more variety of weapons!
DAMN YOU GW MAKE MORE BATTLE FLEET GOTHIC LORE! IT IS TOO BOARD!

Yeah those are torpedoes used by larger ships and they are worth 1 point of damage.

They are? What The Gak? Don't Gunships have the same thing? Then Why are they called the same thing? Wow GW you fail sometimes :(

Asherian Command wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:Hellfire missles are torpedoes. They are used on gunships. Are you talking about the Torpedoes used by Grand Cruisers, Cruisers, Battleships? Yeah I think there should be more variety of weapons!
DAMN YOU GW MAKE MORE BATTLE FLEET GOTHIC LORE! IT IS TOO BOARD!

Yeah those are torpedoes used by larger ships and they are worth 1 point of damage.

They are? What The Gak? Don't Gunships have the same thing? Then Why are they called the same thing? Wow GW you fail sometimes :(

Those gunboats are grand cruisers.

Why all these pages on who can destroy planets better? A war is not about who can blow up the most planets. An eye for an eye makes the whole world....blown up planets!

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Why all these pages on who can destroy planets better? A war is not about who can blow up the most planets. An eye for an eye makes the whole world....blown up planets!

I just provide info.Imperium can do exterminatus via brute force(sterilise entire planets via ship's weaponry or melt crust).

Necroman wrote:It's kinda funny how these threads always go.

Grey Templar wrote:and we agreed earlier that any race capable of time travel is out because time travel is cheating.


Time Travel is impossable because if the Dalek traveled back in time to erase the IoM from existing then they wouldn't have needed to travel back in time to erase them. Therefore the IoM exists.

The Daleks don't need time travel to win.

They already have a weapon that rips apart every atom in the universe. I'd say that's enough.

But to use the reality bomb, they must 1st steal 26 planets from time, by using time travel based technology they go against the rules of this debate and thus are disqualfied from being said to defeat the IoM because they can use time travel.

Commissar Agro wrote:

Necroman wrote:It's kinda funny how these threads always go.

Grey Templar wrote:and we agreed earlier that any race capable of time travel is out because time travel is cheating.


Time Travel is impossable because if the Dalek traveled back in time to erase the IoM from existing then they wouldn't have needed to travel back in time to erase them. Therefore the IoM exists.

The Daleks don't need time travel to win.

They already have a weapon that rips apart every atom in the universe. I'd say that's enough.

But to use the reality bomb, they must 1st steal 26 planets from time, by using time travel based technology they go against the rules of this debate and thus are disqualfied from being said to defeat the IoM because they can use time travel.

Daleks have superior ships and an average Dalek is far more durable than the Space Marine.

I bet winnie the poo could kick the crap out of a couple thousand marines...Or the wicked witch of the west...Or donald trump!

DONALD TRUMP FTW

Well Lets see what could beat the IoM! Ah I know! Furries, Toonami, Gundam wing....

Samus_aran115 wrote:I bet winnie the poo could kick the crap out of a couple thousand marines...Or the wicked witch of the west...Or donald trump!

DONALD TRUMP FTW

That's interesting because all of them can be warp entities who wield great power.
Donald Trump seems more like a Daemon Prince(of bad hairstyles) than true warp entity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asherian Command wrote:Well Lets see what could beat the IoM! Ah I know! Furries, Toonami, Gundam wing....

Gundam,never in short.

Toonami then?

Asherian Command wrote:Toonami then?

Can you provide links about that anime and the other one which you referenced?

donald trump IS a minor chaos god...Of entrepreneurship!



Gundams could be easily shot to pieces by a couple hydras or basilisks. Lascannons would totally wreck them too. It really doesn't matter what they're doing either. If you're flying around, they have ships for that. If you're in space, they have ships for that.

As much as I love gundams, they'd lose against the IOM. Especially because a single shot to the chest of the gundam= death!

Hahahah Toonami isn't a show XD.
Its a TV producer group that had a robot called tom. And a AI call "I can't remember"
Either that or we could face the IoM vs the One
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0267804/
Lol. I'm Joking.
How about the Predators and Aliens teaming up?

Asherian Command wrote:Hahahah Toonami isn't a show XD.
Its a TV producer group that had a robot called tom. And a AI call "I can't remember"
Either that or we could face the IoM vs the One
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0267804/
Lol. I'm Joking.
How about the Predators and Aliens teaming up?

They get shot by Space Marine,mind raped by psykers and burned by the Inquisition.

IvanTih wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:Hahahah Toonami isn't a show XD.
Its a TV producer group that had a robot called tom. And a AI call "I can't remember"
Either that or we could face the IoM vs the One
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0267804/
Lol. I'm Joking.
How about the Predators and Aliens teaming up?

They get shot by Space Marine,mind raped by psykers and burned by the Inquisition.
The One,I really have no idea.

He can bend time..... So I don't know. But so can Librarians.
Yeah. You guys cleared me of races.... Apart from the Chozo.
I also have a list of races we can choose from
http://aliens.wikia.com/wiki/Alien_Species_Gallery

Librarians can SLIGHTLY manipulate time.

Primaris psykers can stop time.

One of the most useful Primaris Psyker powers is the ability to create regions of stopped time, usually around one's opponents. However, it can also function as completely impenetrable barriers-- the region cannot be penetrated or damaged by any means until the timestop ends.

A Primaris Psyker could block a nova cannon shot with that. Fun times!

Melissia wrote:Librarians can SLIGHTLY manipulate time.

Primaris psykers can stop time.

One of the most useful Primaris Psyker powers is the ability to create regions of stopped time, usually around one's opponents. However, it can also function as completely impenetrable barriers-- the region cannot be penetrated or damaged by any means until the timestop ends.

A Primaris Psyker could block a nova cannon shot with that. Fun times!

Ah So Tigruius, and Malicith and Malnar are Primaris Psykers?

No, they're Marines.

Marines can't be primaris psykers

IvanTih wrote:Those 22 petatons are kinetic impact,not the explosive warhead IIRC:

Well GAK. That makes the 610 gigaton numbers for torpedoes even more useless vs 40k ship armor if 22 petatons doesn't cover the yield of a novacanon shot. They're already magnitudes too small for capital ships to care about considering that they've been described as being able to survive novacannon shots...

So what the feth is it? Is the novacannon number too high, or the torpedo number too low?

-edit-

Goku from the end of DragonBall could solo 40k, considering that since (base form) Frieza can do this:



(That's Death Star Superlaser level power there...)

And Goku has surpassed him so far in terms of power and durability that he could effortlessly defeat Frieza with his base attack.

-edit 2-



Well... apparently even base form Vegeta can do it. Yeah so Goku could probably easily solo. No prob.

At least until he gets mind-raped by a daemon or forced into a stable time loop by a psyker, or just... frozen in time for eternity.

Read the OP, Goku is SPECIFICALLY ruled out of this discussion, by name.

For the purposes of discussion, my bet is that it goes like this; he would wipe out 3/4 of the IoM, untill he met his first vortex missile, and, thinking that he could just shrug it off like everything else in the entire universe. He doesn't bother dodging, gets sucked into the warp, and becomes either A) the plaything of the gods B) the favored of Khorn after bear wrestleing Angron and Anngrath to the floor at once, one armed, or C) a major player in the warp's balance of power.

or he meets Lukas the Trickster