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I just threw some numbers around and concluded that, whilst HA and firstborn buffs are giving Power Fists efficient targets, an unbuffed Berzerker champion lightning claw attack outperforms the same with a power fist by 40% against Dreadnoughts

 lindsay40k wrote:
I just threw some numbers around and concluded that, whilst HA and firstborn buffs are giving Power Fists efficient targets, an unbuffed Berzerker champion lightning claw attack outperforms the same with a power fist by 40% against Dreadnoughts

Far as I can tell the fist is still the better tank busting model though. They can throw out disgusting damage against t8 like repulsors and knights.

Oh, yeah, absent of everything, fist is by far the better weapon

If a squad of zerks is riding with a character who can easily punch out a tank, twin claws appear to at least be a viable loadout for the champ, and a potential insurance against a dread-heavy meta shift

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Correct. Death Guard is likely to be adjusted so that it can play perfectly fine as a standalone army without having to mix in the CSM codex.

Need to see the points, but this army appears to be fine playing stand alone.

Inexorable Advance now lets them move and fire heavy weapons without penalties. Vehicles can shoot at units in engagement range without penalty. Infantry are not slowed by anything.

I got to see the new PBC stats, it now has better BS and they took away all variable damage from its guns. It's better in all the ways that matter.

Rumor is Disgustingly Resilient now gives you -1 to W instead of needing to roll a 5 to ignore wounds. Anything that used to wound on a 4+ now needs to roll 5+, which is a 33% improvement (same as before.)

I'd love to return but the fact they made that insane fandex for the Loyalists at the same time as the (non)updates to the Legions in 8th doesn't give me great hope for anything approaching the same treatment.

Just a little theory crafting, if you mix up emperors children with thousand sons, you get to use doubleshot stratagem twice a turn. Some army that came to my mind:
Batalion emperors children

Dark apostole with warpsight plea
Dark apostole with relic that let you reroll all the wounds
Daemon prince of slanesh wings talons and some other goods
2x dark disciples

20x nosie marines with sonic blasters
4x 10 cultists
10 terminators combi plasma and power fist

Patrol of thousand sons cult of knowledge
Ahriman on disc of tzeentch
Prescience, death hex, warp time

20 rubrics with inferno boltguns

Its only gonna be good if you take a first turn,
You risen rubricae rubrics forward in order to get in range,
Move advance and warptime ahriman close to them.
You move up your noise marines with apostoles.
Doubletapping rubrics generate 76 shots, -2 ap, d1, hiting on 2+, rerolling ones, cult of knowledge let you reroll wound rolls against one of targets aswell.
Now noise marines At their slaneesh doubletap generate 120 s5 d2 shots, hiting on 2+ with full reroll.
That is like 200 shots that will most likely hit, and have a high chance of wounding your targets, and you have a deathhex to cancel one of units invaruable save aswell.
Turn 2, you deepstrike terminators and try to warptime or just move and advance your daemon prince close to them.
We are looking at 20 plasma shots+ doubletap generate 20 more if you didnt loose any models thanks to rerolls from prince.
On top of that you have almost guaranteed charge with stratagem that let you swap one dice for 6 in charge roll.
If you need to, pop off the stratagem that generate more atacks for every model slain, those atacks can generate more atacks, so in a single fight phase you can wipe out whole boyz squad.
I know its fragile, but if you manage to pull this off, you can table your opponent at the top of your turn 2.
Its probably still better to play some alpha legion shenigans, that prevent your key units to be taken down turn 1 but, its just crazy how much damage output this army can pull off, and once chaos marines will get 2 wounds we can really start thinking aboute getting them into competetive enviroment

The latest point is only true if the pricehike for the wound won't be severe.
Remember there's no saying that we will get the blanked rulepile like loyalists did.

Also, call me wierd but how much CP does that eat?

Risen rubricae 1, TS doubleshot 1, slaneesh doubleshot 2, slanesh noise marine weapon boost 1, boosting charge range 1 and eventuall exploding hits on terminators another 1.
That makes total of 7 cp, 9 for doubleshooting termies, and 10 if rubrics will survive for another round of doubleshooting, if not then you try to use votlw when its most Effective.

 Reivax26 wrote:
Has anyone here ran Blood Slaughterers with a Lord Discordant? I am seriously thinking about getting some of them since his buff affects them.

I had one game against eldar starcannon spam where i ran a disco + 1 blood slaughterer (pre Imperial armor).
The disco never got to buff the slaughterer because i had to suicide the disco turn 1 with warptime to try and get rid of some of their firepower.
The Slaughterer still kicked ass. Its an absolute beast and now that its cheaper, it gets even better.

I'm actually painting it up right now since i wanted to see if he was worthy of getting paint on it.

Just ordered a Lord of Skulls. He will be the beginning of my World Eaters...

I've been impressed with what we've been shown of the Death Guard book so far. Gives me hope ( I know, I know) that they might put some proper effort in for our book.

However I'm having a hard time envisioning what that looks like.

It could work with a Supplement system like the Loyalists get but I doubt we get that.

I just don't see what overarching 9th systems they can design that can be pulled in so many different directions and give them all a satisfactory 9th level experience.

There will be 7 Legions and half a dozen Renegades to make fit.

I don't see them dropping WE and EC even if new books for them are planned for 9th so it just seems like a crazy amount of varying playstyles and background to make work under one book.

I guess best case maybe we get a more expensive larger book like the Loyalists core book to make it more feasible. They're welcome to drop some of the Copy/Paste lore entries if it were up to me.

Anyway. Long ramble but what approach do you see them taking?

 Reivax26 wrote:
Just ordered a Lord of Skulls. He will be the beginning of my World Eaters...

Build into a shrine to Khone and start praying for an actual WE Codex.

 Eldarain wrote:
I've been impressed with what we've been shown of the Death Guard book so far. Gives me hope ( I know, I know) that they might put some proper effort in for our book.

However I'm having a hard time envisioning what that looks like.

It could work with a Supplement system like the Loyalists get but I doubt we get that.

I just don't see what overarching 9th systems they can design that can be pulled in so many different directions and give them all a satisfactory 9th level experience.

There will be 7 Legions and half a dozen Renegades to make fit.

I don't see them dropping WE and EC even if new books for them are planned for 9th so it just seems like a crazy amount of varying playstyles and background to make work under one book.

I guess best case maybe we get a more expensive larger book like the Loyalists core book to make it more feasible. They're welcome to drop some of the Copy/Paste lore entries if it were up to me.

Anyway. Long ramble but what approach do you see them taking?

Supplements, because that = more $$$, and that's something gw never passes up.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Supplements, because that = more $$$, and that's something gw never passes up.

I'd be fine with that as there is far too much variation between the Legions approach to war/worship. No idea what unifying Doctrine equivalent would make sense across them all.

 Eldarain wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Supplements, because that = more $$$, and that's something gw never passes up.

I'd be fine with that as there is far too much variation between the Legions approach to war/worship. No idea what unifying Doctrine equivalent would make sense across them all.

Me too, because with their current methods of writing rules, I don't see how they could properly handle a Legion that worships nothing in the same book as the others. They just don't do proper customization right anymore.

Correction don't want to because i rekon the printed in china stuff has a higher profit margin then plastic.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Correction don't want to because i rekon the printed in china stuff has a higher profit margin then plastic.

Oh, I didn't say they couldn't do a customizable ruleset anymore, just that they don't. They did it excellently as recently as 7th with the R&H list in IA13, but they don't do that anymore, for the reasons you mention. Like I said: Supplements = $$$$.

Question: has anyone tried playing 9th using 2 wound CSMs? If so, any thoughts?

Friend of mine from Texas said this is a thing, he's been to a few stores where that's the house rule.

Thoughts on taking Power Mauls on Red Butcher Terminators for World Eaters? They would be Str 8 -1 AP 1 damage for an extra 4 points over a chainaxe.

That seems like a pretty fair deal to me.

The extra AP on a power axe is better against everything except T8 and even that's marginal. You're even better with the -2AP than wounding T4 on 2s.
Plus axes are way cooler than clubs...

Recently falling in love with World eaters again. Because win or lose, they don't care as long as the blood flows.

But serious question, how do you handle armies that throw small speed bumps in front of your berserkers and then use the time gained to shoot you off the board?

One squad of infantry is super cheap, and Admech has this fast attack unit that can literally use a strategem to fall back 12 inches so you are pretty much gauranteed to fail your charge.

I get stalled off the board, and then tabled by turn 4. lol What are the tricks and strategies you use as world eaters against shooty armies that use speed bumps to stall you?

seems to me that you need to pull an angron and punish some berzerkers into the backline to be AC Havocs? (Atm the heavy bolters are better but AC's are more "fluffcorrect") a shooting component to dent some speedbumps is of decent urgency, because if they can stop you with speedbumps that efficently then you seem to lack firepower.

Other then that, a squad of drop in red butchers to clear some screens? It's also forward pressure and S6 chainaxes with combibolters are decently cheap

Bikers, and to a degree raptors can also be a really viable tool for you in these cases if only add a bit more clearing power and more pressure.

DP with wings? Jump lord? If jumplord an Berzerker glaive or gorefather might be a good investment, a guard of a bunch of warp talons or Raptors might help out.

In any case, a separate Assault leader with violent urgency trait from F&F is really really important, be it an exalted champion to tie together 1-3 squads of Berzerkers.

Survivability wise, the Darkapostel with ilussion prayer would come in pretty handy.


Personally, WE allways seemed to me to require to be played to the utmost momentum, loose it and you are done for, maintain it and you pretty much roll over everything, that means that going forwards as fast as possible is kinda a necessity. Apoplegtic Frenzy will probably be one of the most used stratagems , even before votwl and anything else.

Yeah, Havocs getting to shoot Reaper Chaincannons on the hoof means a cannon fodder heavy meta shouldn’t be a massive concern. VotLW if you really need to sweep the centre ground. If it’s two units that can’t fly, your opponent’s just gifting you an opportunity to tripoint two of them. VU Raptors are also handy.

Khorne Blood Slaughterer with or without the impaler? I never see the +1 attack a great buff compared to a +2 inch to charge.

So exactly how important is obsec in a chaos space marine army? I feel like 2d weapons like auto cannons and overcharged plasma is about to take a front seat and our obsec units seem like mediocre equivalents in other armies. Chosen, terminators and havocs at least look like a lot of fun and I was wondering if that works, and what sort of support you need like transports. Chosen especially have a special place in my heart because between combi bolters, plasma, and everything else in their tool belt if you got the points they can kill it. 1w tac squads just seem too squishy to use for obsec and with the new edition and point costs I don’t even know how to feel about cultists but I feel like they give you the best obsec for your buck by being cheap, unremarkable and hardly worth shooting XD

I'd love to try an Abaddon Bringers of Despair kind of army. Abby would offset the CP cost of being based in a Vanguard.

Just tons of Terminators, can turn off obsec, maybe add Bile to make the larger units T5

Quick question about the new points costs. Terminators now get free power weapons, power mauls etc. Have they mucked up or is that intentional? Seems pretty handy getting stuff for nothing!

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Quick question about the new points costs. Terminators now get free power weapons, power mauls etc. Have they mucked up or is that intentional? Seems pretty handy getting stuff for nothing!

There's a few funny things going on with Terminators right now.

RAW, Deathwatch Kill Teams get 5+ invul just for including a Terminator in the unit.

RAW, Reaper Autocannons are free, because they are not listed with a points cost. Reaper Chaincannons are, which is not a weapons option for Terminators. And there's no cost for power weapons.

Not sure about GW's intent, it's a new edition. For right now, would go by RAW and assume things may change.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Quick question about the new points costs. Terminators now get free power weapons, power mauls etc. Have they mucked up or is that intentional? Seems pretty handy getting stuff for nothing!

It’s the options format used in 9ed Codices and almost certainly intentional. ‘Standard’ loadouts no longer require adding up, and rounding up or down to the nearest five is given much more weight relative to to the old micro balancing of axes and swords. Sad news for people who converted Chainaxes en masse to keep their gunners cheap, just count them as power axes I guess. Fantastic news for twin LC red butchers, with the 5” charge thing they will become a gatekeeper unit for learning the importance of effective orientations to buildings

The Chaincannon thing is certainly a typo

5" charge thing?