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I have a hard time figuring out how to deal with monstrous creatures and especially flying monstrous creatures with my renegade army. In my meta I normally play against Tyranid flyer spam, daemons of tzeentch and a dark eldar coven talos heavy list (the last is my biggest problem, because of the new formations).
I normally try to run a list focusing on a demagogue with master of the horde with a few vehicles like a medusa and/or demolisher to deal with big units of Grotesque, because they are able to slaughter my large units of infantry.
My latest attempt worked okay, by using small units of expendable infantry (15 man squads from the renegade platoon to screen the corpse thief formation).
But my problem with that is that it still gives my opponent to many victory points, and when I try and use lots of vehicles they get destroyed by haywire blasters either from the talos formation or from deep striking scourges. The vehicles doesn’t seem to be able to deal enough damage to the t7 talos, but if I ignore the talos they eventually get to my infantry line and just wreaks havoc on everything.

I have considered using a chaos daemons nurgle daemon prince with bale sword, but I would rather use the renegades and heretics list alone if able, but right now I can’s see how.
Normally when we play, we chose a single list, and use it in a tournament fashion so we cant prepare for a single opponent.

Sorry for my English, I'm not native speaker

You need a lot of good strength shots with preferably ap3+. Blasts are awful against MCs because it only gets one hit per base so would take all game just to kill one. My mech list does fine against MCs because have a bunch of lascannon shots from Rapier Batteries and Vanquisher Russes, Meltas from my infantry squads, and then a bunch of multilaser shots from chimeras and sentinels. Plus you can wing these shots at FMCs. Against DE you just have to prioritize the scourges so your vehicles last longer

For infantry you should be putting Krak Grenades on all of your squads. This lets them hit MCs and Vehicles with a S6 attack. When you have 20-30 guys chucking kraks onto a MC in combat it starts to add up and with a Chaos Sigil they shouldn't be running away much when they lose combat. Also you could get some plasma guns in those squads and shoot some S7 ap2 at them.

Also there are some CSM characters in the back of the IA:Apoc (2013 ed) book that are also HQs for Renegades too. You still have to take you mandatory Arch-Demagogue but the Khorne Termi-Lord Zhufor is an awesome addition to a Blob because he confers fearless and has 4 S10 powerfist attacks with Rage and Counter-Attack. Should be able to smash up any MCs the squad touches

I've considered rapier batteries, put then I feel I get a problem against those t5 grotesque, my opponent usually runs about 2-3 units of those.
The main problem is the heavy support choices in the renegades and heretics list, because it all looks good normally I run, 1 unit of 2 medusas, 1 unit of 2-3 eradicators and the last slot I usually use for a vanquisher.
I also have a couple of hell hounds to harass his vehicles and objective camping infantry, but I have considered using those cheap sentinels for some extra fire power against eventual flying monsters, but I can’t decide if they are to expensive or not?
I’ll try Zhufor for sure!(damn awesome model!)

You're doing it right - if facing grotesques, there's no substitute for multiple strength 10 hits, which for Rengades & Heretics means demolisher cannons.

Talos are more of an issue. High Toughness, feel no pain. At T7, krak grenades aren't reliable (not that 'reliable' is a phrase worth tagging on anything in your army).

The best thing to slow down Talos and Grotesques both is probably walkers. At S7, Talos struggle to hurt AV12+ with anything but smash attacks, and S10 attacks mulch grotesques fast. Yes, 5 twin-linked haywire shots will tazer a walker to death in one go, but it's only one unit - so can only shoot at one target - two or three seperate walkers closing on it have to be killed one at a time, and if you can wipe it out you get credited with a kill per talos.

Armoured sentinals have the armour but not enough melee killing power. Depending on your commander, Decimators or Blood Slaughterers might be an option.

locarno24 wrote:
You're doing it right - if facing grotesques, there's no substitute for multiple strength 10 hits, which for Rengades & Heretics means demolisher cannons.

Talos are more of an issue. High Toughness, feel no pain. At T7, krak grenades aren't reliable (not that 'reliable' is a phrase worth tagging on anything in your army).

The best thing to slow down Talos and Grotesques both is probably walkers. At S7, Talos struggle to hurt AV12+ with anything but smash attacks, and S10 attacks mulch grotesques fast. Yes, 5 twin-linked haywire shots will tazer a walker to death in one go, but it's only one unit - so can only shoot at one target - two or three seperate walkers closing on it have to be killed one at a time, and if you can wipe it out you get credited with a kill per talos.

Armoured sentinals have the armour but not enough melee killing power. Depending on your commander, Decimators or Blood Slaughterers might be an option.

An allied Soul Grinder would be great for this. ~150 points for a Nurgle one (tack on a battlecannon if you feel like it) and plonk it in some ruins. It will have 2+ cover save and can countercharge any MC that come too close. It also has 13 Armour and plenty of S10 (just don't try to tackle an Imperial Knight with it).

Does the blood slaughter impaler work against flying monsters?
I might try a heretek magus list with a decimator or two, and a blood slaughter pack. I miss out on the 30 man platoons, but I can use mutants to hide Zhufor in, and still have loads of bodies to absorb wounds with.

In my eyes, the answer to MCs/FMCs for the renegades is the same as they have to anything else-we have more guys.

 BoomWolf wrote:
In my eyes, the answer to MCs/FMCs for the renegades is the same as they have to anything else-we have more guys.

Won't work, the Talosi gain a VP for every unit they munch in close combat. If you try MSU and feed them to him one at a time, sure the Talsoi won't make their points back but they may well of won the game.

UNIT, not model.

The LaD armies I've precived are not MSU style "we got more guys", but disgustingly large groups of "we got more guys"

Your talos might net a VP for killing a squad, but when squads range in 30 to 50 models, its not happening any time soon, even when said models are weaklings.

 BoomWolf wrote:
UNIT, not model.

The LaD armies I've precived are not MSU style "we got more guys", but disgustingly large groups of "we got more guys"

Your talos might net a VP for killing a squad, but when squads range in 30 to 50 models, its not happening any time soon, even when said models are weaklings.

Is the Talos a character? (Guessing not) you can put a fighty chaos lord into a 50 man blob and swing your powerfist at it every turn.

I dont know the renegade list well at all, but I do know that corpse thief claw handles blobs pretty well. its killing ~25 geq on the charge assuming it has splinter cannons, then 11 per turn after that.

also I would be be cautious about taking geq blobs against dark eldar anyway.

Not sure on the Renegade list, do these guys have Fearless? If not then they are very likely to be running, you will be losing combat by...a lot and you will be testing at least on -1 due to the Coven Formation special rules. Add that to the fact that even with Krak Grenades you won't be effective (Are they Ws 2 as well as Bs 2? If they are they are hitting on 5's) because the Talos are hit on 4's/5's, wounded on 5's and then they get their 3+/5+++ saves, you aren't putting a lot of wounds through.

Yeah they don't have any way of getting fearless except from a character. Though they can take a chaos sigil, that lets them ignore the first morale test in each game turn. It is of course possible to take a single unit of fearless zombies, but last i tried to tar pit a corpse thief claw with a zombie unit, they ate it in 2 turns even though it was 50 man strong. :(

Use Plague Zombie Hordes.

150 points gets you 50 fearless, 4+ FNP models.

The Taloi will ignore their FNP, but they're still 50 models and fearless- it'll take at least two turns to chew through one. Get a Mutant horde as well and throw that ontop of the pile.

5 Talos are 600 points, a huge chunk of their army, versus your three hordes only costing you 300. Use the rest of your army to smash his while his Talos are tied up.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Use Plague Zombie Hordes.

150 points gets you 50 fearless, 4+ FNP models.

The Taloi will ignore their FNP, but they're still 50 models and fearless- it'll take at least two turns to chew through one. Get a Mutant horde as well and throw that ontop of the pile.

5 Talos are 600 points, a huge chunk of their army, versus your three hordes only costing you 300. Use the rest of your army to smash his while his Talos are tied up.

For.extra lols take bel'kor and make the zombies invisible. Now the talosi will spend the rest of the game waving their flails around.

 BoomWolf wrote:
The LaD armies I've precived are not MSU style "we got more guys", but disgustingly large groups of "we got more guys"

Your talos might net a VP for killing a squad, but when squads range in 30 to 50 models, its not happening any time soon, even when said models are weaklings.

I love how the Lost & Damned out-Imperium the Imperium.

IMPERIAL GUARD GRUNT: This is bullsh*t! They give us these crappy lasguns and expect us to put down giant monsters?
GRUNT #2: Yeah, it's always "drown it in bodies" -- our bodies!
GRUNT #3: Feth this gak! Let's shoot the Commissar and defect to Chaos!
ALL TOGETHER: YEAHHHHHH!

[six weeks later]
ARCH-DEMAGOGUE: See that giant monster? I want you to take your handguns and lengths of rusty pipe and drown it in bodies!
GUARD DEFECTORS: FUUUUUUU.....

 SisterSydney wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
The LaD armies I've precived are not MSU style "we got more guys", but disgustingly large groups of "we got more guys"

Your talos might net a VP for killing a squad, but when squads range in 30 to 50 models, its not happening any time soon, even when said models are weaklings.

I love how the Lost & Damned out-Imperium the Imperium.

IMPERIAL GUARD GRUNT: This is bullsh*t! They give us these crappy lasguns and expect us to put down giant monsters?
GRUNT #2: Yeah, it's always "drown it in bodies" -- our bodies!
GRUNT #3: Feth this gak! Let's shoot the Commissar and defect to Chaos!
ALL TOGETHER: YEAHHHHHH!

[six weeks later]
ARCH-DEMAGOGUE: See that giant monster? I want you to take your handguns and lengths of rusty pipe and drown it in bodies!
GUARD DEFECTORS: FUUUUUUU.....

daaaaaaaaaaang thanks for the great laugh

I'm guessing the Rapier Laser Destroyers will be able to do some damage on regular MCs.

I'm thinking of running some Hell Blades for my CSM allies, would they be good at taking down FMCs?

Zombies and fearless mutants (again needs CSM allies) as people mention above.

There are a large number of options in the renegades and heretics army list. However most of the best options are in the HS slot. This is why I truly believe the Renegades and Heretics needs double CAD or allies above ~1000 pts.

I would usually agree with people that blast weapons are not the way to go to kill MC in most lists but in the renegades and heretics army list the weapons and units themselves are so cheap that you can get 3 models for the cost most other armies would pay. So when talking about a 6 models with 1 shot each then that is just as good as a 6 shot weapon (actually better any many cases). This is a common logical mistake people make with the renegades and heretics army list. They think of it as Imperial Guard: Chaos which is a mistake. The IG units are "good" or "Bad" against certain targets due to their price, availability, and orders (usually tank hunters and ignore cover). When you can get 3 Str9 AP3 large blasts for what 2 of the same would cost the other army suddenly that becomes a much more effective answer to multi wound models.

Don't forget that Renegades and Heretics has some of the best MC killers in the game in their allies. Chaos Daemons and Chaos Space Marines have some amazing units for kill MC. Though most of those I would not use individually against a 5 Talos unit (you would have to combine several units into a concerted effort as is logical to kill such an expensive unit).

Another thing to note is that fortificatio options are in many ways more effective for Renegades and Heretics than most other armies. They save points for not having armour thus those points can go into getting them good, reliable cover and obstacles to block imperial knight movement and slow down MC a bit.

Another thing a lot of people miss is that icons allow you to pass a leadership test once a turn. This can keep a unit in the game that extra player turn to weather that initial shock. Very useful to pass those morale checks for 25% casualties or that failed combat. I would never take an infantry squad without an icon.

Some of the best options in the renegades and heretics list to kill MC are;
*Support Squad w/ 6 lascannon teams. Make sure you take militia training and a building to put them in. 2.5 wounds average on a Talos (before FnP). This can be reasonably effective against FMC as well as you can put your Tz covenant warlord in with this unit to gain BS2 against flying units.
*3x Medusa Heavy Artillery Carriages. Relatively cheap, tough to kill at range, and effective against most anything you play against. Deploy centrally and enjoy 36" range 3 Str 10 AP2 Large blasts. You can easily catch 2 Talos in the formation under a large blast. You should average nearly a dead Talos every shooting phase but it is very dependent on the FnP they give the Talos. Great against the multi wound T5 units.
*3x Earthshaker Heavy Artillery Carriages. Very cheap for what you get. Incredible range and again reasonably effective against anything you might want to kill (except 2+ MC, like riptides). This will kill Talos just as well as the medusa but will avoid the issues with them gaining cover saves from intervening terrain or being able to hide. The great thing about these is they can pound on FMC before they take off due to the huge range and being able to target units out of LoS.
*Leman Russ Executioners with ammo dump. They are cheap as chips and the ammo dump keeps them from burning themselves out.
*3x Rapier Battery w/ militia training. 70 pts for such a tough unit at range and the unit is TL and ordnance so it rolls 2d6 pick highest for armour pens. They are very very good for their price against most MC and vehicles. Just remember that ordnance weapons cannot snap fire (check in the rule book under weapons section). Also using a HS slot for this unit can be rough in games above 1000 pts. This is one of the reasons I would recommend double CAD or allies.
*Macharius Vulcan. 30 Str6 AP3 shots a turn is pretty good on a 400 pts super heavy. This thing can very easily chew through T6- Sv3+ MC. If you give it a prescience psyker then it can even chew through FMC.
*6x Lascannon Sentinels w/ Militia Training. This unit is extremely cheap for the lascannons you get, AV10 is actually pretty decent at 48" range, and the unit is naturally fearless as they are vehicles. The missile launcher ones are also excellent as the ML upgrade is very reasonable in cost.
*Blood Slaughterers are also excellent but are very hard to herd where you need.
*Blight Drones are not bad for their price. The big thing is that they are a rare AA choice in this list and as such are one of the few units that can deal with FMC with some expectation to work well.

These are the options I can think of off the top of my head. Keep in mind that the advantage Renegades and Heretics has is that their units are cheap. Thus you don't handle a MC with 1 unit of anything you handle it with 3+ units numerous options.

Reading ansacks post ewminds me, A (codex daemons) nurgle daemon prince with a 2 greater rewards (take balesword) can probably one-shot a squad of talosis since it is poison and instant death.

I'd still fling a couple at them to be sure, but yes, balesword princes are lethal. The original poster did mention them but said they'd prefer a "single army list force"