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BrianDavion wrote:

Karol wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You honestly think GW would give a massive new Avatar model that towers over the previous one the exact same rules that it has now?

If something like historical justice existed yes. Plus it would help them promote maybe a new eldar faction or an updated eldar faction where players would have to replace their collections, instead of just using their Artel and other companies models with a new rule set.

historical justice? not sure what you're saying so I'll generously assume this is a translation issue. In this case however the Precident for GW's actions is against that. when the greater deamons where given their new models, GW gave them coraspondingly greater stats to match their new massive size

It's Karol, he has some weird phobia for anything Eldar, and more recently harlequins, and feels that should always have crap rules to make up for past rules transgressions.

Probably ties back to people suggesting GK were bad in 8th because of the Ward 'dex.

 Sarigar wrote:
Replacing is not the write choice of words. One can still play first born Marines, but the differences in utility between first born and primaris are significant. I just played a few games against a first born Ultramarine army and my opponent lamented how many stratagems don't apply to them, less AP for shooting, less attacks in assault, etc...

You can still utilize the old models, but the rules are being written with an emphasis on the newer models.

This is a bit of a fear I have about an upcoming Craftworld book; GW creates several entirely new units with solid rules and does not update a lot of outdated models with most of their rules being 'meh'. I'll admit that I will be one of the folks who will buy them, but that will be a bit of a let down as I've got nearly 20,000 points of fully painted Craftworld models. Time will tell.

Stratagems are not the only factor. Firstborn are much more flexible with their loadouts (Tacticals can outshoot Intercessors quite easily for example) and are currently doing Emperor's work in tournament lists.
Firstborn and Primaris are really well balanced against each other.

If the same kind of update applies to Orks and Eldar, it will be a good time for the players.

Balance and tournaments aside I think he raises a good point. That Ultramarine firstborn player is frustrated since he's still playing his army but new books and strategems are coming out that apply less and less to his guys.

That's a very understandable frustration.

Do with that information what you will, but Ultramarines got:

5 Stratagems that only apply to Firstborn.
9 Stratagems that only apply to Primaris.
35 Stratagems that apply to both.

Don't know if those numbers should frustate anybody who plays that army.

 bullyboy wrote:


It's Karol, he has some weird phobia for anything Eldar, and more recently harlequins, and feels that should always have crap rules to make up for past rules transgressions.

A phobia is an irrational fear of something. I don't fear eldar, because they are not really. I just don't think that is good for the game to one faction in the game to never had a bad time in the game. And edition or two of bad rules would do eldar players good. Maybe make them more understanding of the problems other factions have. Give them time to paint the back log of models they have. Only good things could come out of it. Plus bad eldar armies, mean more fun for other factions, which is the grand majority of the entire game.

To be sure I don't get how you make the jump of me having a phobia, while all I ever said about eldar is that all their subfactions seem to have an above avarge win rate since the very start of the game. Not even marines, who are suppose to be the poster faction for w40k, have a record like eldar. I mean they even broke the IH win rate record, which I thought was impossible to beat. Both win rate wise and number of armies in top 8.

Karol wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:


It's Karol, he has some weird phobia for anything Eldar, and more recently harlequins, and feels that should always have crap rules to make up for past rules transgressions.

A phobia is an irrational fear of something. I don't fear eldar, because they are not really. I just don't think that is good for the game to one faction in the game to never had a bad time in the game. And edition or two of bad rules would do eldar players good. Maybe make them more understanding of the problems other factions have. Give them time to paint the back log of models they have. Only good things could come out of it. Plus bad eldar armies, mean more fun for other factions, which is the grand majority of the entire game.

To be sure I don't get how you make the jump of me having a phobia, while all I ever said about eldar is that all their subfactions seem to have an above avarge win rate since the very start of the game. Not even marines, who are suppose to be the poster faction for w40k, have a record like eldar. I mean they even broke the IH win rate record, which I thought was impossible to beat. Both win rate wise and number of armies in top 8.

I feel like saying Eldar is like saying Imperium when we all know guard are pretty trash at the moment, but then admech is probably edging out dark eldar for the top power spot right now (i could be convinced either way but i do think admech just barely edges out DE). for part of 4th and all of 5th craftworld Eldar were basically garbage tier. Then in 6th and 7th they were one of the strongest armies (hard to argue there, it was bad enough that i stopped playing my eldar because it seemed unfair). 8th ynarri let you blend them to be broken with mixes of DE and craftworld, and so far in 9th craftworlds have been pretty bad but DE has been amazing. I don't really have a desire to play dark eldar, but I do want to play my craftworld eldar and not be at a huge disadvantage. I also love harlies, but really need them to have more options, I had a harlie heavy army in 5th and have the old metal bikes but sadly they are (imo) kind of borign to play with only a handful of units. Though admittedly they are not terrible just i only occasionally feel like playing them as they are... 1 dimentional

Karol wrote:
A phobia is an irrational fear of something. I don't fear eldar, because they are not really. I just don't think that is good for the game to one faction in the game to never had a bad time in the game. And edition or two of bad rules would do eldar players good. Maybe make them more understanding of the problems other factions have. Give them time to paint the back log of models they have. Only good things could come out of it. Plus bad eldar armies, mean more fun for other factions, which is the grand majority of the entire game.

Rich take from someone who doesn't get tired of reminding everyone on the forum how bad their army is in every other post.

How about you don't project the problems you have with your local community to the overall playerbase?

Karol wrote:
And edition or two of bad rules would do eldar players good.

No faction should have bad rules. Your idea of punishing players just because you hate the army you've chosen and have locked into some weird suck cost fallacy of loathing is utterly absurd.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Karol wrote:
And edition or two of bad rules would do eldar players good.

No faction should have bad rules. Your idea of punishing players just because you hate the army you've chosen and have locked into some weird suck cost fallacy of loathing is utterly absurd.

did me no end of good I started playing other games

but seems unfair that any faction should get dunked for past terrible rules writing, Invisibility nor D-weapons were players fault, likewise the last redo of the Ynnari appeared to be purposefully fup awful, especially given how decent the PA update foe quins was by comparision

Karol wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:


It's Karol, he has some weird phobia for anything Eldar, and more recently harlequins, and feels that should always have crap rules to make up for past rules transgressions.

A phobia is an irrational fear of something. I don't fear eldar, because they are not really. I just don't think that is good for the game to one faction in the game to never had a bad time in the game. And edition or two of bad rules would do eldar players good. Maybe make them more understanding of the problems other factions have. Give them time to paint the back log of models they have. Only good things could come out of it. Plus bad eldar armies, mean more fun for other factions, which is the grand majority of the entire game.

To be sure I don't get how you make the jump of me having a phobia, while all I ever said about eldar is that all their subfactions seem to have an above avarge win rate since the very start of the game. Not even marines, who are suppose to be the poster faction for w40k, have a record like eldar. I mean they even broke the IH win rate record, which I thought was impossible to beat. Both win rate wise and number of armies in top 8.

"It's not a phobia, it's just an irrational hate."
You weren't playing before 8th afaik but you're talking like you know about everything because you've read a few things over the internet, as if it was void of hyperbole or lies. On top of mixing every eldar faction together, like marines were all the imperium.
Maybe stop projecting to everyone else how your local Ynnari meta abuser enjoyed bullying you (I guess ?), most people just want to play with their toys and you have no leg to stand on wishing they were bad.
You picked up the wrong army because it was the worse during 8th ? Tough luck, you're probably old enough to sell it by now and just leave behind this game that keeps disappointing you. Or just wait a few months to have it updated. But in any case, just stop this non sense.

If you don’t enjoy another poster’s content, just pop them on ignore.

So. To shake things up a little bit, I want to discuss new unit suggestions, in the sure and certain hope of the resurrection of Craftworld Eldar as a refreshed and updated range.

Because updated is good, updated and expanded is gooderer.

I want a scout sized wraithknight (plus decent wraithknight rules), sporting dual pulse lasers that could be switched out to other weapons (monafilament based as one, fusion the other).

As a wild HQ choice, how about a Seer Council mounted on an open topped wave serpent with a large dais. Still give it singular stats (ie, they can't dismount...as we don't want passengers that can cast psy powers but then can't be targeted either). So basically you have the wave serpent base but instead of the turret you have a beautifully decorated large platform with a farseer and several warlocks on board. It would be like the Eldar's version of Triumph of St Katherine. each warlock/farseer provided a specific buff and as the wounds degrade, you have to lose psychic powers. That thing could look spectacular.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If you don’t enjoy another poster’s content, just pop them on ignore.

So. To shake things up a little bit, I want to discuss new unit suggestions, in the sure and certain hope of the resurrection of Craftworld Eldar as a refreshed and updated range.

Because updated is good, updated and expanded is gooderer.

I'd want a Pony...well a Bright Stallion, an old Epic Knight, 4 legged with a BFG / Lance

A CWE Starweaver/Venom seems like a easy sell

 bullyboy wrote:
[...] feels that should always have crap rules to make up for past rules transgressions.

If past rules transgressions were to be taken into account, Grey Knights would've been dragged in the back alley and shot a long time ago.
I was a GK player during the glorious 5th ed GK dominance and I don't regret it

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

A CWE Starweaver/Venom seems like a easy sell

That's literally just a Vyper with handholds

 Aenar wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
[...] feels that should always have crap rules to make up for past rules transgressions.

If past rules transgressions were to be taken into account, Grey Knights would've been dragged in the back alley and shot a long time ago.
I was a GK player during the glorious 5th ed GK dominance and I don't regret it

How else would you describe the 7e Codex?

Sterling191 wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

A CWE Starweaver/Venom seems like a easy sell

That's literally just a Vyper with handholds

The Vyper could do with a redo along the lines of Skyweaver, the current one is a) ancient, b) a bit too chunky by Eldar standards

Sterling191 wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

A CWE Starweaver/Venom seems like a easy sell

That's literally just a Vyper with handholds

The Vyper did used to have rules for being a fighting platform for a character - you'd hope that would involve handholds of some form.

 harlokin wrote:


New plastic Baharroth and Swooping Hawks vs new Baron Sathonyx and (old) Hellions
New plastic Karandras and Striking Scorpions vs new plastic Kheradruakh the Decapitator and Mandrakes
New plastic Fuegan and Fire Dragons vs new plastic Urien Rakarth and Grotesques

You sir, are a twisted evil genius who deserves all the territory your Kabal can steal.

If you make a play for Commorragh, we've got your back...

Right up until we don't. After all, that is the way....

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If you don’t enjoy another poster’s content, just pop them on ignore.

That's not at all relevant here.

Karol wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:


It's Karol, he has some weird phobia for anything Eldar, and more recently harlequins, and feels that should always have crap rules to make up for past rules transgressions.

A phobia is an irrational fear of something. I don't fear eldar, because they are not really. I just don't think that is good for the game to one faction in the game to never had a bad time in the game. And edition or two of bad rules would do eldar players good. Maybe make them more understanding of the problems other factions have. Give them time to paint the back log of models they have. Only good things could come out of it. Plus bad eldar armies, mean more fun for other factions, which is the grand majority of the entire game.

To be sure I don't get how you make the jump of me having a phobia, while all I ever said about eldar is that all their subfactions seem to have an above avarge win rate since the very start of the game. Not even marines, who are suppose to be the poster faction for w40k, have a record like eldar. I mean they even broke the IH win rate record, which I thought was impossible to beat. Both win rate wise and number of armies in top 8.

Do you read your own posts? If not for the sheer humor of your comments, I would have pressed the Ignore button some time ago.

 Sarigar wrote:

Karol wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:


It's Karol, he has some weird phobia for anything Eldar, and more recently harlequins, and feels that should always have crap rules to make up for past rules transgressions.

A phobia is an irrational fear of something. I don't fear eldar, because they are not really. I just don't think that is good for the game to one faction in the game to never had a bad time in the game. And edition or two of bad rules would do eldar players good. Maybe make them more understanding of the problems other factions have. Give them time to paint the back log of models they have. Only good things could come out of it. Plus bad eldar armies, mean more fun for other factions, which is the grand majority of the entire game.

To be sure I don't get how you make the jump of me having a phobia, while all I ever said about eldar is that all their subfactions seem to have an above avarge win rate since the very start of the game. Not even marines, who are suppose to be the poster faction for w40k, have a record like eldar. I mean they even broke the IH win rate record, which I thought was impossible to beat. Both win rate wise and number of armies in top 8.

Do you read your own posts? If not for the sheer humor of your comments, I would have pressed the Ignore button some time ago.

I especially liked his "back log of models" comment

Sterling191 wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

A CWE Starweaver/Venom seems like a easy sell

That's literally just a Vyper with handholds

Yup. Easy dual-kit.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If you don’t enjoy another poster’s content, just pop them on ignore.

So. To shake things up a little bit, I want to discuss new unit suggestions, in the sure and certain hope of the resurrection of Craftworld Eldar as a refreshed and updated range.

Because updated is good, updated and expanded is gooderer.

The issue is the range is in such a need of an update that entirely new units would just take resources away from that.

Plus, CWE have always been a historically popular army and have actually had a lot of releases spread over editions, so they're one of the bigger armies in terms of sheer datasheets right now and also don't really feel like they're missing anything conceptually or mechanically. There's already some overlap with units already there, like Hawks vs Spiders, too.

Obviously that type of concern won't really stop GW; just look at the Marine range or Ophydian Destroyers, but I guess it just comes down to what sort of direction the design studio is under currently. For years and years they operated under a "create what we wanna create" mentality which prioritized new units over updating old ones and this is partly why so many ranges across their games are so messy and disjointed. But in the past year or so there's clearly been some kind of change; the amount of updates to ancient models, and not just finecast going to plastic, has dramatically increased. 40K is getting the main focus here currently, whereas AOS is still in "new factions" mode (much to the chagrin of Skaven or Seraphon players)

It's just interesting that so far in 9th, we've had updates to Necron Warriors, Ork Boyz and Guardsmen.... and some suspiciously Aeldari and Tyranid looking rumour engines. It sort of gives one hope that 9th is the edition where they put more of a focus on dragging more of their ranges out of the late 90's/early 00's.

Dysartes wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

A CWE Starweaver/Venom seems like a easy sell

That's literally just a Vyper with handholds

The Vyper did used to have rules for being a fighting platform for a character - you'd hope that would involve handholds of some form.

I'm kind of torn on the notion of a "vyper transport" for craftworlders. It would be super useful for fire dragons and dark reapers, and being able to field some less suicidal anti-tank would be nice as most of our long-ranged anti-tank platforms are quite expensive. Simply being able to shoot blasters out of raiders/venoms is a feature of my drukhari that I always really miss when playing my craftworlders. Or even just having a dark lance on a raider that costs half as much as my wave serpents. But on the other hand, eldar vehicles being relatively safe, armored affairs always struck me as a fluffy distinction from their less safety-conscious cousins. A wave serpent feels like it was designed by someone's over-protective mom to make sure nothing happens to her kids on their way to the soccer game. Venoms are like hanging onto your dad from the back of the motorcycle while neither of you wear a helmet and the road is covered in potholes. So a craftworlder venom feels sort of like the soccer mom telling you to hop in the motorcycle sidecar, and maybe you have a helmet?

Also, the Saim-Hann character who used a modified vyper as a chariot was Nuadhu Fireheart from (I think) the 3rd edition codex. He's one of the main characters in the Wild Rider novel if anyone wants to see more of him.

bullyboy wrote:I want a scout sized wraithknight (plus decent wraithknight rules), sporting dual pulse lasers that could be switched out to other weapons (monafilament based as one, fusion the other).

Isn't a "scout-sized wraithknight" just like... a wraith lord? Or possibly even a war walker? I'd be down for some updated war walkers with new gun options. I'd also maybe question whether scouting is the best use of your half-dead twins if it's an actual wraith knight. ;D

As a wild HQ choice, how about a Seer Council mounted on an open topped wave serpent with a large dais. Still give it singular stats (ie, they can't dismount...as we don't want passengers that can cast psy powers but then can't be targeted either). So basically you have the wave serpent base but instead of the turret you have a beautifully decorated large platform with a farseer and several warlocks on board. It would be like the Eldar's version of Triumph of St Katherine. each warlock/farseer provided a specific buff and as the wounds degrade, you have to lose psychic powers. That thing could look spectacular.

That's not my jam, but I could see a lot of people being into it. However, I feel like that would take up our "centerpiece slot" in the hypothetical line refresh, and I'd really rather that slot go to something like an updated Avatar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unknown_Lifeform wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
It is very worrying that we haven't seen any sign of new Eldar in any of the rumour engine pics.

There was this one from April https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/20/the-rumour-engine-20th-april-2021/

Appears to be an eldar hand with a floating control panel.

I'm pretty sure t hat's an eldar meltabomb (fusion bomb?), and I'm holding out hope that it's being held by an updated fire dragon or overhauled storm guardian.

Eldar basically need their entire range redone outside of Farseers, Autrachs, Jetbikes, Wraith units, Banshees and Jain Zar.

It’s insane how far behind the model range is in 2021.
Space Marines have just completed their second complete plastic army, to replace their first complete plastic army.

Meanwhile Eldar have 85% of their range dating back twenty years plus, with many units never even making it to plastic.

It’s kinda madness.

Wyldhunt wrote:


I'm kind of torn on the notion of a "vyper transport" for craftworlders. It would be super useful for fire dragons and dark reapers, and being able to field some less suicidal anti-tank would be nice as most of our long-ranged anti-tank platforms are quite expensive. Simply being able to shoot blasters out of raiders/venoms is a feature of my drukhari that I always really miss when playing my craftworlders. Or even just having a dark lance on a raider that costs half as much as my wave serpents. But on the other hand, eldar vehicles being relatively safe, armored affairs always struck me as a fluffy distinction from their less safety-conscious cousins. A wave serpent feels like it was designed by someone's over-protective mom to make sure nothing happens to her kids on their way to the soccer game. Venoms are like hanging onto your dad from the back of the motorcycle while neither of you wear a helmet and the road is covered in potholes. So a craftworlder venom feels sort of like the soccer mom telling you to hop in the motorcycle sidecar, and maybe you have a helmet?

Also, the Saim-Hann character who used a modified vyper as a chariot was Nuadhu Fireheart from (I think) the 3rd edition codex. He's one of the main characters in the Wild Rider novel if anyone wants to see more of him.

Okay, you've sold me on the venom argument. You're right, that's not the Eldar way of doing war. I don't want it even though, as you said, a venom full of blasters is cool to have in game.

Wyldhunt wrote:
I want a scout sized wraithknight (plus decent wraithknight rules), sporting dual pulse lasers that could be switched out to other weapons (monafilament based as one, fusion the other).
Isn't a "scout-sized wraithknight" just like... a wraith lord? Or possibly even a war walker? I'd be down for some updated war walkers with new gun options. I'd also maybe question whether scouting is the best use of your half-dead twins if it's an actual wraith knight. ;D

I thought he meant a scout *titan* sized model, which we also have... either the Revenant or the Phantom (I don't know how big a Scout Titan is, I'm guessing it's Revenant sized)

Edit: D'oh mixed up scout and reaver

Wyldhunt wrote:


I'm pretty sure t hat's an eldar meltabomb (fusion bomb?), and I'm holding out hope that it's being held by an updated fire dragon or overhauled storm guardian.

I think you're probably right. But it's also... orby. Like a Slicing Orb of Zandros

Wyldhunt wrote:

bullyboy wrote:I want a scout sized wraithknight (plus decent wraithknight rules), sporting dual pulse lasers that could be switched out to other weapons (monafilament based as one, fusion the other).

Isn't a "scout-sized wraithknight" just like... a wraith lord? Or possibly even a war walker? I'd be down for some updated war walkers with new gun options. I'd also maybe question whether scouting is the best use of your half-dead twins if it's an actual wraith knight. ;D

That would be like saying "why do we need Armigers, we already have Dreadnoughts".
A scout sized knight would be slightly bigger than the wraithlord and would be piloted, but there may not actually be design space for it, which is a shame since some Eldar weapons are simply not used enough (outside of FW of course).

I love the aesthetics of the Wraithlords, Wraithseers and Wraithknights but I'd be a little worried about them adding (and balancing) another large wraith unit.

Adding another unit to that category means even less of an incentive to redesign or appropriately cost the current ones.