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Not being up on my Eldar, what makes this surprising?

BaronIveagh wrote:Not being up on my Eldar, what makes this surprising?

The fact that the Grey Knights, at this moment in the background, have a standing force of Purifiers keeping vigil over the abandoned Craftworld of Malan'tai(which is packed with caches of hidden Spirit Stones).

Oh, and the fact that they're returning it to the Eldar.

There's far more things to go "WTF" about than this particular passage about the Bloodtide(which, again, is Andy Hoare's creation and has never really been described in detail).

Eh... as far as 'not destroying the spirit stones' that makes sense (screw over slaanesh) but, yeah, turning a craftworld back over to the eldar does seem a bit.... out of character for the Imperium.

BaronIveagh wrote:
So, wait, the Non-canon ending of a non-GW/FFG/BL product that only hints that something might have taken place because human population of the planet declined afterward is the basis of all this idiocy?


Feth, seriously, that makes what Matt Ward did to GK look intelligent.

Someone told me that FFG expanded on that idea in Dark Heresy or Rogue Trader. But the thread 404'd before I could get specifics. So there might be more info in the background of an RPG... maybe


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BaronIveagh wrote:Eh... as far as 'not destroying the spirit stones' that makes sense (screw over slaanesh) but, yeah, turning a craftworld back over to the eldar does seem a bit.... out of character for the Imperium.

Ward changed the Grey Knights from Puritans to Radicals. Helping Eldar will probably hurt Chaos. That's all the reason they need now.

im2randomghgh wrote:
That's why the Tau attacked the Imperial worlds, to get me back my cookie. It was worth it.

So much death in return for a cookie? You have a strange sense of priorities.

In your response to my response on the word "forced" you used the word "forced"...Would you rather have the life-eater virus dropped on your head, or live out a long, happy life, minus a child? There are lots of happy people who don't have children.

The life-eater virus is only used in extreme situations, not in standard genocide situations. It would be like being executed or having a long, not necessarily happy life ruled over by xeno species that treats you as second-class (at best) citizens. Either than or a flesh-eater virus or succumbing to the influence of Chaos and condemning an entire planet to become pawns to the whim of Daemons.

With the V-bombing several worlds for 'Da trooper, C.S. Goto did it. Nuff said. But never the less, it is canon. It was in tha BR Omni.

What was the Stormtrooper supposed to have seen or know?

Kanluwen wrote:I'm surprised that people are so upset over this, but fail to raise an eyebrow at the fact that the Grey Knights are currently in possession of the Craftworld of Malan'tai.

I assumed that the just went there to stop the Daemons from getting stronger from feasting on the souls within Soulstones, and possibly gain Eldar technology remnants on the Craftworld. It's also means the Eldar owe them a significant favour.

BaronIveagh wrote:Eh... as far as 'not destroying the spirit stones' that makes sense (screw over slaanesh) but, yeah, turning a craftworld back over to the eldar does seem a bit.... out of character for the Imperium.

For the Imperium as a whole? Sure.

For the Inquisition, who maintains regular contact with the Eldar and can even call for a parlay?
It's far less out of character

My point was that I can use just that one particular summation of the incident, leave out many of the details and suddenly--the Grey Knights are heretics!

The incident in question had the Grey Knights being warned by the diviners of the Inquisition that one of the bigger, more infamous Greater Daemons(N'kari, Keeper of Secrets) was in the process of increasing his power. The Knights were given a location, in the middle of deep space, and a vague warning about "the Purifiers need to be there".
When the Knights get to the location, Malan'tai was drifting still scored from the bio-acid of the Tyranids who killed the place and infested with Daemonettes and minions of Slaanesh. The Purifiers led the way through, with what's described as "a bow wave of cleansing azure flame preceding their advance".
Skip to the end, they strip N'kari of his 'stolen power'(it doesn't say how much more powerful he was made from it, but it hints at it being a pretty hefty upping of his power--and he'd barely found any of the stockpiles of Spirit Stones and he was tossing around Purifiers left and right before his power boost was stripped from him) and banish him, leaving Purifiers on Malan'tai to ensure N'kari cannot return.

It does lead me to wonder though if we'll be seeing tighter Imperial relations with the Eldar, with a few border clashes here and there flaring up.

That would be nice. As they both realize that they rather have more important things to fight...

Oh the irony.... posts = 666

Melissia wrote:That would be nice. As they both realize that they rather have more important things to fight...

Like those damn dirty Tau.



Oh. And the Tyranids. Or Orks. Or Chaos.

Hrmh. There's really a lot they could be fighting together, isn't there?

Indeed. Eldar may not like the filthy humans, but I can certainly see them viewing the Imperium as a shield which is keeping much of the galaxy in check .

Crevab wrote:
Someone told me that FFG expanded on that idea in Dark Heresy or Rogue Trader. But the thread 404'd before I could get specifics. So there might be more info in the background of an RPG... maybe

Digging through FFG material... not seeing it...

Kanluwen wrote:
For the Inquisition, who maintains regular contact with the Eldar and can even call for a parlay?
It's far less out of character

Only for a radical inquisitor. Remember that a puritan would sooner cut out their own tongue then speak to a xeno. Remember that the Inquisition is also the same organization that puts whole planets to the torch for parlaying with xenos rather then automatically shooting them.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
That's why the Tau attacked the Imperial worlds, to get me back my cookie. It was worth it.

So much death in return for a cookie? You have a strange sense of priorities.

In your response to my response on the word "forced" you used the word "forced"...Would you rather have the life-eater virus dropped on your head, or live out a long, happy life, minus a child? There are lots of happy people who don't have children.

The life-eater virus is only used in extreme situations, not in standard genocide situations. It would be like being executed or having a long, not necessarily happy life ruled over by xeno species that treats you as second-class (at best) citizens. Either than or a flesh-eater virus or succumbing to the influence of Chaos and condemning an entire planet to become pawns to the whim of Daemons.

With the V-bombing several worlds for 'Da trooper, C.S. Goto did it. Nuff said. But never the less, it is canon. It was in tha BR Omni.

What was the Stormtrooper supposed to have seen or know?

Kanluwen wrote:I'm surprised that people are so upset over this, but fail to raise an eyebrow at the fact that the Grey Knights are currently in possession of the Craftworld of Malan'tai.

I assumed that the just went there to stop the Daemons from getting stronger from feasting on the souls within Soulstones, and possibly gain Eldar technology remnants on the Craftworld. It's also means the Eldar owe them a significant favour.

It was not "A cookie", it was "the cookie"

And despite your argument, I would still rather live for another ~60/70 years without a child than have my face melted by the single most powerful micro-organisms in the entire wh40k universe.

The storm-trooper fought alongside the BR against the Alpha Legion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:

Melissia wrote:That would be nice. As they both realize that they rather have more important things to fight...

Like those damn dirty Tau.



Oh. And the Tyranids. Or Orks. Or Chaos.

Hrmh. There's really a lot they could be fighting together, isn't there?

If the Imperium were going to take an on-going ally from amongst the Xenos of the Milky Way, it would probably be the Tau, as they are the most reasonable race.

In Path of the Warrior, the Eldar attacked an Imperial world because a possible future (one amongst uncountable trillions) had the IG regiments of that planets attacking them. One. Amongst. Trillions.
Also, that book showed us just how arrogant and hedonistic even non-chaos Eldar can be.

BaronIveagh wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
For the Inquisition, who maintains regular contact with the Eldar and can even call for a parlay?
It's far less out of character

Only for a radical inquisitor. Remember that a puritan would sooner cut out their own tongue then speak to a xeno. Remember that the Inquisition is also the same organization that puts whole planets to the torch for parlaying with xenos rather then automatically shooting them.

The Conclave of Isha begs to differ.

I can't actually think of the Inquisition torching a whole planet, simply for parlaying with the Eldar or even the Tau.
Do they remove the biggest offenders? Yeah.

Kanluwen wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
For the Inquisition, who maintains regular contact with the Eldar and can even call for a parlay?
It's far less out of character

Only for a radical inquisitor. Remember that a puritan would sooner cut out their own tongue then speak to a xeno. Remember that the Inquisition is also the same organization that puts whole planets to the torch for parlaying with xenos rather then automatically shooting them.

The Conclave of Isha begs to differ.

I can't actually think of the Inquisition torching a whole planet, simply for parlaying with the Eldar or even the Tau.
Do they remove the biggest offenders? Yeah.

The Inquisition has done much,much worse.

But an example of them torching a planet for little/no reason, in Savage Scars, V-bombs were launched at a Tau planet, but it was a Tau planet where all the xenos were already killed by the forces of the Astartes, Titanicus, and IG. They literally fired death at a planet because aliens had walked on it.

BaronIveagh wrote:

Luke_Prowler wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:Again, where the feth is everyone getting this business with Tau and sterilization?

Dawn of War: Dark Crusade. The Tau ending heavily hinted that the humans were sterilized and generally oppressed.

So, wait, the Non-canon ending of a non-GW/FFG/BL product that only hints that something might have taken place because human population of the planet declined afterward is the basis of all this idiocy?


Feth, seriously, that makes what Matt Ward did to GK look intelligent.

its cannon its also been talked about in some of the novels, Dawn of war fluff is approved by GW, if they had extermintated the tau early on the Imperium would have saved alot of humans.

The concept of moving the Eldar to be more friendly to humanity is rather ironic. Anyone who was around in 2nd ed will remember that they actualy had this sort of alliance between the 2 factions. When the Eldar 3rd edition codex came out, GW specificaly made efforts to move the Eldar to a more aloof, enigmatic, self serving race. They didn't like that the Eldar had a reputation as a "good guy" race.

Cannibal wrote:The concept of moving the Eldar to be more friendly to humanity is rather ironic. Anyone who was around in 2nd ed will remember that they actually had this sort of alliance between the 2 factions. When the Eldar 3rd edition codex came out, GW specifically made efforts to move the Eldar to a more aloof, enigmatic, self serving race. They didn't like that the Eldar had a reputation as a "good guy" race.

And you'll remember that every "alliance" we've seen since 3rd edition between the Eldar and Imperium has really been furthering the Eldar's goal of survival.

There's nothing wrong with the Eldar being "friendly" to humanity.
After all, does it really hurt to be nice to a giant walking meatshield that also does a great job distracting Daemons wanting to eat your souls?

Wow - the new background in C: GK seems like such a train wreck.

If I didn't need this codex for my 'count as' Alpha Legion cell (Oh the irony!), I don't think I'd pick it up at all!

Alpharius wrote:Wow - the new background in C: GK seems like such a train wreck.

If I didn't need this codex for my 'count as' Alpha Legion cell (Oh the irony!), I don't think I'd pick it up at all!

Are you serious? I agree. We should make our own Grey Knight lore!

Alpharius wrote:Wow - the new background in C: GK seems like such a train wreck.

If I didn't need this codex for my 'count as' Alpha Legion cell (Oh the irony!), I don't think I'd pick it up at all!

It's really not though.

Some of the background "seems like such a train wreck" simply because it's stuff that really should have been saved for an Ordo Xenos book, not the Grey Knights book.

Kanluwen wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Wow - the new background in C: GK seems like such a train wreck.

If I didn't need this codex for my 'count as' Alpha Legion cell (Oh the irony!), I don't think I'd pick it up at all!

It's really not though.

Some of the background "seems like such a train wreck" simply because it's stuff that really should have been saved for an Ordo Xenos book, not the Grey Knights book.

Like the Jokaero? And the other Xenos stuff? Yeah Grey Knights prided themselves for using Eldar stuff not other alien tech.

I really wish in the Ordo Xenos book there is an option to take Deathwatch XD.

Plus it can be fixed by just rewriting it so it sounds better.

I've seen many "rewrites" of existing fluff.

And I can honestly say I'd rather have C.S. Goto than a community based rewrite.

Well, it kinda makes sense for the Deamon Hunters to be friendly with the Eldar, don't they have the black library filled with knowledge on chaos?

Kanluwen wrote:I've seen many "rewrites" of existing fluff.

And I can honestly say I'd rather have C.S. Goto than a community based rewrite.

Yes, my god, could you imagine! It would be horrible! THe nightmare!

Except that's what we did with BFG FAQ2010 to a degree, and other then the Space Marine Lance and Chaos Light Cruiser flame wars, didn't come out that bad. Mind you, it also wasn't a re-write of existing canon fluff (mostly) but a re-write of fan fluff so that GW could use it without having to actually credit the original authors.

I believe this might be Matt Ward's M.O.

calgar 2.5 wrote:I believe this might be Matt Ward's M.O.

YES! ROFL fething YES!



EDIT: Speaking of /tg/ there's thread there on GKs as Malal aligned CSMs. Thoughts?

I could beleive that. Malal loves fighting the other gods in inconspicuous ways...and the GKs would be perfect for that.

With exterminatus they harm the IoM, with combat they hurt the other gods...makes sense.

They cannot use anything related to Malal, as the owner has the rights to it not GW.

Kanluwen wrote:They cannot use anything related to Malal, as the owner has the rights to it not GW.

GW has money. They should use it, and buy the rights. What's the owner gonna do with it? He can't use it since it's part of 40k...

I've always wondered why GW didn't just solve the issue with a big pile of stinking money.

After all, the writers incessantly add oblique references to Malal.