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Mythal wrote:One amusing thing I only now realised. The only infantry model capable of inflicting instant death in assault on a T4 enemy in the new Codex is the Mistress of Repentance, courtesy of the new Wargear entry for the Neural Whip.

Silly.

Celtic Strike wrote:Still, either way, they're the biggest boys on the block when it comes to miniature games in US, Europe and Canada and that's nothing to ignore. They're not stupid, I know GW bashing is really popular but they wouldn't still be around if they are all run by the slowed monkeys wearing boxing gloves like the message boards screech that they are.

The issue is not how big of a fish they are in their little bowl, but that their bowl is shrinking as compared to the larger ocean...the 'market' for tabletop war, sci-fi, western, horror, etc. games that use some sort of minauture as part of the game has been growing 5%-10% a year. (This was based on research for a toy client 3 years ago). And GW has been shrinking in that period. They were the premier company in a growth market and now the cash cow whose worth is measured in it's parts.

JB_Man wrote:

Mythal wrote:One amusing thing I only now realised. The only infantry model capable of inflicting instant death in assault on a T4 enemy in the new Codex is the Mistress of Repentance, courtesy of the new Wargear entry for the Neural Whip.

Silly.

I know - and she dual-wields for 4 power weapon attacks on a charge, and strikes at I3, too.

Having now constucted a list out of the book I'm feeling more content now that the Sisters with the right choices taken will preform admirably on the battlefield. Actually considering I think Seraphims may have got the biggest buff and are actually very fieldable.

She also strikes at essentially S8 against T10 against most HQ units.

So against an Ork horde, she wounds on a 6+ until their numbers are down to less than ten.

Melissia wrote:She also strikes at essentially S8 against T10 against most HQ units.

And all Necrons and Daemons, and most Nids. The irony is palpable

Mythal wrote:

Melissia wrote:She also strikes at essentially S8 against T10 against most HQ units.

And all Necrons and Daemons, and most Nids. The irony is palpable

Don't forget orks that as the Mob rule would no doubt be in effect.

Hell, even against Guardsmen and Marines she basically just strikes at S4.

Actually striking at S4 would have been better than striking at Ld8 against the enemy's leadership value.

Melissia wrote:Hell, even against Guardsmen and Marines she basically just strikes at S4.

Actually striking at S4 would have been better than striking at Ld8 against the enemy's leadership value.

Oh, agreed. I suspect this is one of those Internet Communication Failure things. If an Englishman says something is 'funny', he generally doesn't mean something is 'good', unless he's explicitly discussing stand-up comedy. I find it ironic, which on this side of the pond is largely synonymous with funny as a function of the base level of cultural melancholy, that where once several units could use the Faith system to strike at S8, now the only model who can has a special rule that largely renders the ability moot.

Oh no, I was agreeing with you.

Actually the whip strikes against "the opponent's unmodified Leadership characteristic" (emphasis added). So against a unit of 25 Orks she still attacks vs their statline and not their fearless number. Same with Nids, against a unit of hive guards within synapse range of a synapse creature she rolls Str 8 v Ld 7 not Ld 10.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:Actually the whip strikes against "the opponent's unmodified Leadership characteristic" (emphasis added). So against a unit of 25 Orks she still attacks vs their statline and not their fearless number. Same with Nids, against a unit of hive guards within synapse range of a synapse creature she rolls Str 8 v Ld 7 not Ld 10.

Oh goddamnit, it opened up the old "what is modified versus unmodified" debate.

I would think that that is very apparent. What is the number in the Stat line after/under Ld? That would be the unmodified leadership characteristic. To me the key words are unmodified and characteristic in this instance.
I was/am unaware of any controversy regarding this issue so please forgive me if I seem naive.

AllistorPreist wrote:A las cannon predator is very much like an excorcist, but more reliable.

Uh, no? A tri-lascannon predator costs substantially more than an Exorcist, is extremely hampered if it ever has to move, and has worse power to boot against most targets (Strength 8 AP 1 is better than Strength 9 AP 2 against AV 10-12). The Exorcist is a much, much stronger choice.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:I would think that that is very apparent.

Apparently you've never seen someone get into an argument about the Book of St. Lucius, then (which, despite its very plain and simply written rules which should need no explanation, still gets some people riled up)

Melissia wrote:Apparently you've never seen someone get into an argument about the Book of St. Lucius, then (which, despite its very plain and simply written rules which should need no explanation, still gets some people riled up)

Ah, yes - the good old 'may != must' argument. If I'm honest, that's the thing that irritates me most about the new Codex - the fact that the faith of a common and garden Battle Sister is strong enough to rally against impossible odds in the name of Him On Earth, but if she's a Seraphim, a Dominion or a Retributor, her zeal is replaced by a magnetic field that drags her armour towards the table edge as fast as she can cheese it. I tend to take the view that all squads with an Act should have, included within that act, the ability to regroup on a successful AoF check during the movement phase.

Not just that, but it incited arguments on what exactly unmodified meant. Because to some people, the option to use the canoness' unmodified leadership effectively modified the leadership values of the squads that used it.

Nevermind the pissed off Culexis assassin owners.

Melissia wrote:She also strikes at essentially S8 against T10 against most HQ units.

So against an Ork horde, she wounds on a 6+ until their numbers are down to less than ten.

She would synergize will the psychic battle squad, just buy one through your IG all-

Oh, never mind.

Did anyone else notice there are no psychic hoods? Or any psychic defenses......for witch hunters?

Did I miss it or is that legit? WTF?

Seraphim and Dominions are amazing, but a lot of the units are whatever. Celestians have no purpose that I can see. You can make them weak assault units if you buff them and give them HQ support. Yay.

St. Celetian is pretty awesome for her points.

Repentia don't look so great.

Why in blazes is the immolator so expensive?

Penitent engines look pretty cool for the points, they are super cheap, but since the Exorcist is the only long range weapon that can punch tanks that you can take now, I can't imagine most lists won't take at least 2.

12 point battle sisters is pretty good. I think they will make solid troops.

On the whole, I think the book has some cool units but is a net loss for Sisters players.

I give this book a big meh. We'll see how it plays on the table but it sure isn't exciting on paper.

Penitent Engines can be tar-pitted by a grot squad.

Mythal wrote:

streamdragon wrote:I'm not denying it can function; just whether or not I plan to bother with it.

Which is a perfectly understandable viewpoint, and I apologise if you took any affront from my post My response was more directed at the poster who thought those trying out the new Codex honestly believed it was superior.

Not at all!

Stopped by my GW to grab the second half of the Sister's "book" (because I apparently hate myself, who knows). To be honest, all it really did was solidify my decision to buy White Dwarf as little as possible.

The stark contrast between the Ogre Kingdoms/Tomb Kings battle report and the Sisters/Tyranids battle report is staggering. OK/TK features full lists, vivid turn by turn details and victory point tallies; it covers 19 pages. The Sisters/Tyranids battle doesn't have lists, lumps the game into 2 turn blocks (i.e., Turn 1-2, Turn 3-4, Turn 5-6) and takes 7 pages. Considering this isn't even the Ogre Kingdoms full release, while it is our "final half" of whatever...

I want to be a bit hyperbolic and say: This should show Sisters players exactly how little GW cares about their army. The problem is, it doesn't feel hyperbolic; it feels true. Here's hoping we live to see a real release I guess.

Reecius wrote:Did anyone else notice there are no psychic hoods? Or any psychic defenses......for witch hunters?

Did I miss it or is that legit? WTF?

Seraphim and Dominions are amazing, but a lot of the units are whatever. Celestians have no purpose that I can see. You can make them weak assault units if you buff them and give them HQ support. Yay.

St. Celetian is pretty awesome for her points.

Repentia don't look so great.

Why in blazes is the immolator so expensive?

Penitent engines look pretty cool for the points, they are super cheap, but since the Exorcist is the only long range weapon that can punch tanks that you can take now, I can't imagine most lists won't take at least 2.

12 point battle sisters is pretty good. I think they will make solid troops.

On the whole, I think the book has some cool units but is a net loss for Sisters players.

I give this book a big meh. We'll see how it plays on the table but it sure isn't exciting on paper.

Anti-psyker-wse we now get the wonderful Condemnor boltgun... What are you moaning about? lol
Celestians are the new Inquisitor retinue kitted out for combat, i.e. useless
St. Celestine is absolutely AWESOME for her points cost
Repentia don't look great, but play a few games with them and I think you'll change your mind, really
Immolators...Angers me... They're razorbacks with re-rolls to wound and that re-roll costs 25 points. Blazes indeed, good pun!

A HF immolator cost the exact same amount as an HF razorback and has the exact same rules. So I don't see the 25 point difference between them.

Trying to compare the Immo to a Razorback is strange:

(Immo w/ TL Heavy Bolters + Reroll to wound + 6++) - Razorback w/ TL Heavy Bolters = 25

(Immo w/ TL Heavy Flamers + 6++) - (Razorback w/ TL Heavy Flamers) = 0

buh? So in one case, the reroll to wound and 6++ are worth 25 points. In the second, the 6++ is apparently worth nothing?

GG GW. GG.


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Leo_the_Rat wrote:A HF immolator cost the exact same amount as an HF razorback and has the exact same rules. So I don't see the 25 point difference between them.

Not quite the exact same rules. The immo gets a 6++ while the razorback gets searchlights!

Aologies, I thought the razorback could take HF for free instead of HB. And I forgot about the 6++ (because if you're like me then it's irrelevant anyway lol)
But still... 65 pts for an Immolator? That's whack

The main difference isn't in the HF Immo/Razor, it's the Heavy Bolter version. I would happily drop the reroll to wound on the heavy bolters if it meant paying 25 points less. (Since apparently the 6++ doesn't count against cost, or is worth the 1 point that searchlights are worth. )


6++ isn't going to be anything to be relied on, no doubt. Will it save some Battle Sisters from the occasional AP3 template, sure. Will you really even notice it's there in most games? Probably not.

Melissia wrote:Are the melta pistols still AP2?

No.


They are AP1


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mythal wrote:One amusing thing I only now realised. The only infantry model capable of inflicting instant death in assault on a T4 enemy in the new Codex is the Mistress of Repentance, courtesy of the new Wargear entry for the Neural Whip.

Except you're testing against their Ld....sooooo 4+ if they have a crappy Ld. 5+ ---> 6+ if it's something near a character type

streamdragon wrote:
6++ isn't going to be anything to be relied on, no doubt. Will it save some Battle Sisters from the occasional AP3 template, sure. Will you really even notice it's there in most games? Probably not.

I've polayed 3 games using the new rules so far and the times I've remembered to roll the ++ save I've failed. Most of the time I just plain forgot to roll for it lol

Tabitha wrote:You cant expect them to sift through a bunch of forums trying to find what people think would make their codex better.

IF you don't think people involved with game/codex design don't read forums/threads like this then you are an idiot.

They are never going to admit it, nor identify themselves in a public forum, but they certainly take advantage of thread like this to gauge opinion, etc.

Reecius wrote:Did anyone else notice there are no psychic hoods? Or any psychic defenses......for witch hunters?

Did I miss it or is that legit? WTF?

I think the point is that they're no longer "Witch Hunters". (They probably should have never been.)

Looking at the Codex, I can see why Sisters players are upset...there are lots of simplifications and obviously with entire Inquisition connection left out, lot less units to choose from. In some ways they almost seem like "Blood Angels Lite".

OTOH, I don't think the army is "weak", it just seems bit bland and barebones.