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Tabitha wrote: but maybe you might help change the future hard back codex for the better.

Plastic sisters are coming before next summer.

A move to hard back made before 6th or at 6th ed?

I hope we do NOT get hard cover Codices - $40+ for an army book?

Ouch!

OTOH, I don't think the army is "weak", it just seems bit bland and barebones.

That's my point too !

Hard back codex = PDF down loads.

This looks like a pretty weak effort, to me.

And you can tarpit Penitent Engines with grots? How? They will kill a few of them and run them down. Am I missing a rule?

I think a good list will consist of Exorcists as now, maxed fast attack with a mix of both types of units, St. Super Sista and a bunch of sisters squads.

The immolator is overcosted because the Razorback with heavy flamers is stupidly overpriced, too! Haha. And then to give it heavy bolters makes it dumb expensive.

I agree that this book isn't weak, just boring. Hopefully they are just waiting to wow us with the full version of the book because for now, if I played Sisters, I would want my old dex over this thing.

And no Pyschic Defense = Fail.

Give this thing to Mat Ward, every Sisters vehicle will have SISTER POWER! which ignores all damage results and forces any male models in the other players army to sit and stare at the girls, doing nothing for a turn, possibly hitting their own guys, on a 2+.

And it will only cost 5 points.

forces any male models in the other players army to sit and stare at the girls, doing nothing for a turn, possibly hitting their own guys, on a 2+.

That's pretty Slaaneshi, especially considering the MEQ environnement

Hahaha, very true!

So on a 2+ they have impure thoughts about Nuns and instead of fighting, flagellate themselves as penance.....all for only 5 points!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And another thing.

10 Sisters with 2 meltas in a rhino=180 points
10 grey hunters with 2 meltas in a Rhino=190 points

The grey hunters are pretty clearly superior, but it isn't crazy out of line. I think they sisters should be a little cheaper but not bad.

Grey Hunters are undercosted though.

I was ready to pay more for my sisters, if only the codex could give them some particularity. I am uneasy with BSS just to be a Ten-Power-armor squad with 2 melta. I could have use some more specificity with the Holy Tryptic, bolter-flamer-melta... because most armies are already based on the bolter/melta...
And so on..

That's a good point. They are just IG vets in power armor. The act of faith mechanic is cool, but they could have gotten some unique stuff.

Well, here's to hoping that the actual codex and Jes Goodwin minis make up for the wait.

And dear God Emperor, please don't let Mat Ward near the codex!

Reecius wrote:And dear God Emperor, please don't let Mat Ward near the codex!

You're kidding, right? Imagine how awesome it would be if Mat Ward handled the full SoB Codex - they'd have a special rule for Apocalypse games whereby sacrificing all of your Sisters of Battle granted all surviving models immunity to daemonic effects for the duration of the battle!

But in all seriousness, at least Mr Ward writes interesting crunch. Avoiding his fluff, which is the subject of much controversial debate, he's never turned in a 40k Codex that's made me think "Wow, this army is going to suck on the tabletop". Whether or not he's the right 'fit' for the Sisters in terms of keeping their flavour, that's up in the air, but I would certainly prefer him to write it than Cruddace Codex 2.0. All of the rumours I've read online seemed to indicate Phil Kelly was handling the alleged bookdex in any case - I say alleged, because it helps me keep from getting my hopes up, rather than because I doubt the integrity of any of the kind people providing said rumours.

Reecius wrote:

Give this thing to Mat Ward, every Sisters vehicle will have SISTER POWER! which ignores all damage results and forces any male models in the other players army to sit and stare at the girls, doing nothing for a turn, possibly hitting their own guys, on a 2+.

*chuckles*

That would be an awesome rule, but I wonder how it work against slaanesh or tyranid models.

@Sabrx
Hentai! Yuck! hahaha

@Mythal
He writes incredibly overpowered books. Daemons damn near ruined Fantasy and Grey Knights are OTT for 40K. If you are a casual gamer, it may not seem like such a big deal to you, but for tournament gaming, his books suck...all apart from Space Marines which were amazing. He blew his creative wad on that book, the rest is mostly crap.

Reecius wrote:@Mythal
He writes incredibly overpowered books. Daemons damn near ruined Fantasy and Grey Knights are OTT for 40K. If you are a casual gamer, it may not seem like such a big deal to you, but for tournament gaming, his books suck...all apart from Space Marines which were amazing. He blew his creative wad on that book, the rest is mostly crap.

So, if he writes the Codex, Sisters of Battle could go from this White Dwarf pamphlet to a horrifically overpowered army that oozes special rules, flying assault transports and cheese?

Bugger. Better hope that doesn't happen. Yessirree, Bob. Definitely no hoping for Mat Ward-style crunch. Nope, not here.

But taking your point, I would rather the Sisters book were balanced, innovatively represented (both in terms of models and flavoured rules) and versatile in terms of multiple competitive builds.

You said it! That is what we hope for in every codex.

Not blood missile shooting blood bat riding blood marines in their blood bloods!

And Grey Knights, good lord, Mat Ward must not play the game if he thinks that book was balanced in any way.

Alpharius wrote:I hope we do NOT get hard cover Codices - $40+ for an army book?

Ouch!

Have you actually handled one of the hardcover books? It's only $8 more than our currently ridiculous $33 soft cover prices, and in return the books are actually full color and nice looking.

Mythal wrote:

Reecius wrote:@Mythal
He writes incredibly overpowered books. Daemons damn near ruined Fantasy and Grey Knights are OTT for 40K. If you are a casual gamer, it may not seem like such a big deal to you, but for tournament gaming, his books suck...all apart from Space Marines which were amazing. He blew his creative wad on that book, the rest is mostly crap.

So, if he writes the Codex, Sisters of Battle could go from this White Dwarf pamphlet to a horrifically overpowered army that oozes special rules, flying assault transports and cheese?

Bugger. Better hope that doesn't happen. Yessirree, Bob. Definitely no hoping for Mat Ward-style crunch. Nope, not here.

But taking your point, I would rather the Sisters book were balanced, innovatively represented (both in terms of models and flavoured rules) and versatile in terms of multiple competitive builds.

That last sentence is what I'm hoping for. Mainly because I want to feel special for playing the "boobs" army, and not come to Dakka and "have to" read threads whining about how Sisters are everywhere and so hard to beat and on and on and on, and then I'd get lumped in with them. I prefer balanced to overpowered, even - dare I say especially? - when it's the army I'm currently playing. I don't want to be overpowered, because then I'd have to share with the powergamers and have to defend myself by saying, "I just like the minis and the fluff, I didn't start Sisters to win a lot," and would have to deal with Sisters-hate-bandwagoners. At least for several months, until most people figure out how to deal with Sisters armies, and FAQs get released, and all returns to normal. Yeah, I care what strangers online think of me and think of the faction I play in a tabletop game with little plastic and metal mans and womans.

And I'm really looking forward to whenever Jes' plastic multi-part Sisters get released. Can't wait - but I will (it's just an expression) - to see plastic Battle Sisters. ^_^ Love plastic minis, because I dislike when superglue gets on my fingers, plastic on plastic joins fall apart much less often, and I like painting plastic minis more than metal ones, because the paint sticks better. My metal scout snipers from 2003 looked like they'd been drybrushed a metallic color after a few months. My Sisters have held up better, with the odd chip here and there. Probably doing something wrong with my Scouts. Sorry for the tangent.

Reecius wrote:
He writes incredibly overpowered books. Daemons damn near ruined Fantasy and Grey Knights are OTT for 40K. If you are a casual gamer, it may not seem like such a big deal to you, but for tournament gaming, his books suck...all apart from Space Marines which were amazing. He blew his creative wad on that book, the rest is mostly crap.

You know what books matt ward didn't write? Imperial Guard and Space Wolves which are considered the strongest armies.

Reecius wrote:If you are a casual gamer, it may not seem like such a big deal to you, but for tournament gaming, his books suck...

So, they're designed properly, then?

After all, GW seem to have stopped supporting tournaments - maybe his books are meant to be a hint to those of you who just won't let them go?

I'd like to see some additional long range support. And allowing us to use the Repressor (which Forge World still says is mostly ours) Imagine 6 (Even though WD lists it as 10...) firing points AND a HFlamer...

@Necrosis

Fair play. Grey Knights are the best army in the game right now though, followed by Wolves, Dark Eldar, IG and Blood Angels. That is of course debatable, but that is the general consensus among tournament players. I stay very, very dialed into the tournament meta and data shows us Grey Knights have just exploded past the crowd. The winner of the NOVA invitational tournament was a Grey Knights who smashed Space Wolves, and they are doing great in the championships so far.

They also won an inordinate amount of Ard Boyz games, far out of proportion with the rest of the field.

The player is still what matters, it's just that Grey Knights are a bit over the top and it aggravates me.

@Dysartes

If you don't like tournament play that is fine. Check out the live coverage of the NOVA and Adepticon though to see how fun and cool those events are and how much community they build, but your preference is your own.

The thing with Grey Knights, which makes it a poorly designed book, is how it breaks the game for a lot of armies.

Daemons can literally find themselves in a position where they can't even put models on the table. That isn't fun.

Horde armies can lose huge chunks of their armies to Purifiers with no way to stop it. Not fun.

Some of their psychic powers can damn near win games alone.

Don't even get me started on the grenades.

Psyfilmen are crazy undercosted.

and the list goes on.

And why would GW hint to anyone that playing competitively is not what they want you to do? You do realize that is completely illogical, right? GW exists to sell models, as they have openly stated on several occasions. Tournament gamers buy loads of them. GW doesn't want to alienate any portion of their customer base, that would be foolish.

And writing a bad codex to make a point? Again, illogical. That is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

At any rate, I respect the way anyone chooses to play the game, or even just to paint the models. That is a personal choice.

Writing good, balanced rules only benefits everyone, that should be pretty obvious. It keeps the game healthy, strong and fun for all types of players.

Do you guys play fantasy?

Daemons in Fantasy were so over powered that they would win tournaments 500 points under the other armies. That's Mat Ward. He also wrote the last Orcs and Goblins books. The worst army in the game.

I could go on, but the guy is not good at his job, IMO.

The strangest thing is that an ad for the repressor follows the article. I take it as sort of a "permission to use this" sort of thing.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:The strangest thing is that an ad for the repressor follows the article. I take it as sort of a "permission to use this" sort of thing.

Ok... Good, I'm glad that I wasn't the only one that thought this was odd, too.

Pouncey wrote: I prefer balanced to overpowered, even - dare I say especially? - when it's the army I'm currently playing. I don't want to be overpowered, because then I'd have to share with the powergamers and have to defend myself by saying, "I just like the minis and the fluff, I didn't start Sisters to win a lot," and would have to deal with Sisters-hate-bandwagoners. At least for several months, until most people figure out how to deal with Sisters armies, and FAQs get released, and all returns to normal.

I concur.

Pouncey wrote: And I'm really looking forward to whenever Jes' plastic multi-part Sisters get released. Can't wait - but I will (it's just an expression) - to see plastic Battle Sisters. ^_^ Love plastic minis, because I dislike when superglue gets on my fingers, plastic on plastic joins fall apart much less often, and I like painting plastic minis more than metal ones, because the paint sticks better. My metal scout snipers from 2003 looked like they'd been drybrushed a metallic color after a few months. My Sisters have held up better, with the odd chip here and there. Probably doing something wrong with my Scouts. Sorry for the tangent.

Fleur de lis; they will be everywhere! I can imagine every nut, bolt and stud that are on the current models being replaced by tiny lily emblems. And dynamic dangling chaplets and flowing purity seals. I hope they don't end up looking too busy. Not looking forward to that.

paintedpotato wrote:

Pouncey wrote: I prefer balanced to overpowered, even - dare I say especially? - when it's the army I'm currently playing. I don't want to be overpowered, because then I'd have to share with the powergamers and have to defend myself by saying, "I just like the minis and the fluff, I didn't start Sisters to win a lot," and would have to deal with Sisters-hate-bandwagoners. At least for several months, until most people figure out how to deal with Sisters armies, and FAQs get released, and all returns to normal.

I concur.

Pouncey wrote: And I'm really looking forward to whenever Jes' plastic multi-part Sisters get released. Can't wait - but I will (it's just an expression) - to see plastic Battle Sisters. ^_^ Love plastic minis, because I dislike when superglue gets on my fingers, plastic on plastic joins fall apart much less often, and I like painting plastic minis more than metal ones, because the paint sticks better. My metal scout snipers from 2003 looked like they'd been drybrushed a metallic color after a few months. My Sisters have held up better, with the odd chip here and there. Probably doing something wrong with my Scouts. Sorry for the tangent.

Fleur de lis; they will be everywhere! I can imagine every nut, bolt and stud that are on the current models being replaced by tiny lily emblems. And dynamic dangling chaplets and flowing purity seals. I hope they don't end up looking too busy. Not looking forward to that.

I'm sure Jes won't go overboard with details. He did some damned fine work on Dark Eldar. ^_^

Reecius wrote:Do you guys play fantasy?

Daemons in Fantasy were so over powered that they would win tournaments 500 points under the other armies. That's Mat Ward. He also wrote the last Orcs and Goblins books. The worst army in the game.

I could go on, but the guy is not good at his job, IMO.

It's true, daemons are just stupid good in fantasy. They won all 3 top spots in the last 'Ard Boyz semifinals near me.

The previous O&G book was insanely bad (albiet, I believe it was a 6th ed book being played in 7th ed). I never lost to them in 7th.

So, agreed... but that's probably not really the topic for this thread.

I do wish GW would go the Privateer Press route and actually change things that are overpowered and broken. They took a step in changing the power scroll (which previously was being banned from most tournaments) but there are some easy fixes they could do to daemons, too, to make them not insane.

Well said, RiTides, well said.

But you are right, Mat Ward isn't the topic of this thread so I will drop it.

ph34r wrote:

Alpharius wrote:I hope we do NOT get hard cover Codices - $40+ for an army book?

Ouch!

Have you actually handled one of the hardcover books? It's only $8 more than our currently ridiculous $33 soft cover prices, and in return the books are actually full color and nice looking.

It would be much harder to fit in my army case...

So is the issue out yet in the US or what? Have yet to see the actual part 2 anywhere.

Cheddah wrote:

ph34r wrote:

Alpharius wrote:I hope we do NOT get hard cover Codices - $40+ for an army book?

Ouch!

Have you actually handled one of the hardcover books? It's only $8 more than our currently ridiculous $33 soft cover prices, and in return the books are actually full color and nice looking.

It would be much harder to fit in my army case...

Oh wow! You actually bring your codex with you?! Most people I know just grab a new copy of the shelf and put it back when they are done. Or just make stuff up off the top of their head.

I applaud you! Unless you just meant that as a pun. Because by definition, it would be harder...

paintedpotato wrote:Oh wow! You actually bring your codex with you?! Most people I know just grab a new copy of the shelf and put it back when they are done. Or just make stuff up off the top of their head.

I applaud you! Unless you just meant that as a pun. Because by definition, it would be harder...

I didn't know there were people who actually thought it widely accepted to not bring their army book/codex with them.

My store shrink-wraps the codices so you can't use them off the shelf.

Anyway, I've yet to see a Sisters army being played. Looking forward to meeting them.