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Cheddah wrote:

ph34r wrote:

Alpharius wrote:I hope we do NOT get hard cover Codices - $40+ for an army book?

Ouch!

Have you actually handled one of the hardcover books? It's only $8 more than our currently ridiculous $33 soft cover prices, and in return the books are actually full color and nice looking.

It would be much harder to fit in my army case...

Sorry I didnt mean hard back copy. I meant a physical copy of the book. As in not a WD dex.

I was sleep deprived when I wrote that.

Tabitha wrote:

Cheddah wrote:

ph34r wrote:

Alpharius wrote:I hope we do NOT get hard cover Codices - $40+ for an army book?

Ouch!

Have you actually handled one of the hardcover books? It's only $8 more than our currently ridiculous $33 soft cover prices, and in return the books are actually full color and nice looking.

It would be much harder to fit in my army case...

Sorry I didnt mean hard back copy. I meant a physical copy of the book. As in not a WD dex.

I was sleep deprived when I wrote that.

Most likely, I'll be buying a second set of WD issues so I can pull it apart and make copies of each page of our "'dex", use a pamphlet punch and put it in booklet form.

Eremiel wrote:Most likely, I'll be buying a second set of WD issues so I can pull it apart and make copies of each page of our "'dex", use a pamphlet punch and put it in booklet form.

The bad old days return... hopefully we won't see a full return to the days of Chapter Approved, where you often had to have a "WD binder" with the latest rulings and articles for your army in addition to the Codex and rulebook.

Is that really that different than the faqs they have now? I'd rather have a living game than one where a broken army dominates everyone for four years and tons of people quit playing like what demons did to Fantasy. Epic Asphyxious had an ability in Warmachine that has been tweaked twice so far since it was dominating games in a way that many people (even people who played him) thought was unfair.

It's very different, since you don't have to buy White Dwarf to get the FAQs. If GW puts this sort of content online, I'd be fine with it-- as it stands, though, it feels like a ploy to get people buying White Dwarf unnecessarily.

paintedpotato wrote:Oh wow! You actually bring your codex with you?! Most people I know just grab a new copy of the shelf and put it back when they are done. Or just make stuff up off the top of their head.

I applaud you!

You would even consider playing against someone that didn't have their codex with them?

Fetterkey wrote:It's very different, since you don't have to buy White Dwarf to get the FAQs. If GW puts this sort of content online, I'd be fine with it-- as it stands, though, it feels like a ploy to get people buying White Dwarf unnecessarily.

They put the BA codex online a month or so after release, so we might see that again here.

Eremiel wrote:

Tabitha wrote:

Cheddah wrote:

ph34r wrote:

Alpharius wrote:I hope we do NOT get hard cover Codices - $40+ for an army book?

Ouch!

Have you actually handled one of the hardcover books? It's only $8 more than our currently ridiculous $33 soft cover prices, and in return the books are actually full color and nice looking.

It would be much harder to fit in my army case...

Sorry I didnt mean hard back copy. I meant a physical copy of the book. As in not a WD dex.

I was sleep deprived when I wrote that.

Most likely, I'll be buying a second set of WD issues so I can pull it apart and make copies of each page of our "'dex", use a pamphlet punch and put it in booklet form.

I did that yesterday, but without tearing my WDs apart. ^_^

The thing with Grey Knights, which makes it a poorly designed book, is how it breaks the game for a lot of armies.

lol Tell that to the heresy online crowd.
I was basically laughed out of the board for having the audacity to claim the new GK would change the meta game over there

Eremiel wrote:

Melissia wrote:Are the melta pistols still AP2?

They are AP1

Hrm. Two S8 AP1 Melta shots, even if it's such a hilariously short range, are at least somewhat worth the 30 points It's still too expensive to use often though...

Hrm. Two S8 AP1 Melta shots, even if it's such a hilariously short range, are at least somewhat worth the 30 points It's still too expensive to use often though...

Dunno, think the cost is to steep for those. The squad needs to close in to point blank with whatever they shoot at, most vehicles move either just as fast or faster then they do and it almost always means a one shot weapon before melee.

Pyriel- wrote:

Hrm. Two S8 AP1 Melta shots, even if it's such a hilariously short range, are at least somewhat worth the 30 points It's still too expensive to use often though...

Dunno, think the cost is to steep for those. The squad needs to close in to point blank with whatever they shoot at, most vehicles move either just as fast or faster then they do and it almost always means a one shot weapon before melee.

Cost is steep, but remember that they're now the only unit in the force capable of getting four melta hits from five models - and for 25 points less than the absolute minimum it cost 3rd Ed Dominions to do the same thing, with a free reroll on their 6++ and Jump Packing. I'll definitely run one five-Seraphim squad with Inferno Pistols alongside St Celestine - she serves up to a point as ablative wounds for the squad, and increases its effectiveness against MEQ/heavy infantry. My other two Fast Attack slots will probably go to small Dominions Squads in MM-Immolators.

Revarien wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:The strangest thing is that an ad for the repressor follows the article. I take it as sort of a "permission to use this" sort of thing.

Ok... Good, I'm glad that I wasn't the only one that thought this was odd, too.

It seems to be part of the Codex article. Note the same "Sisters of Battle" in the top right hand corner of the page?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

paintedpotato wrote:

Cheddah wrote:

ph34r wrote:

Alpharius wrote:I hope we do NOT get hard cover Codices - $40+ for an army book?

Ouch!

Have you actually handled one of the hardcover books? It's only $8 more than our currently ridiculous $33 soft cover prices, and in return the books are actually full color and nice looking.

It would be much harder to fit in my army case...

Oh wow! You actually bring your codex with you?! Most people I know just grab a new copy of the shelf and put it back when they are done. Or just make stuff up off the top of their head.

I applaud you! Unless you just meant that as a pun. Because by definition, it would be harder...

I do bring it with me since I always seem to need a reminder of, or to verify certain rules.

Melissia wrote:

Eremiel wrote:

Melissia wrote:Are the melta pistols still AP2?

They are AP1

Hrm. Two S8 AP1 Melta shots, even if it's such a hilariously short range, are at least somewhat worth the 30 points It's still too expensive to use often though...

Seems to be better to field a dominion squad though. A seraphim with inferno pistols has two melta shots for 30 points, but a dominion squad could have 2 melta shots for 20 points.

Asked in YMDC but would get more attention here, is St. Celestine an IC? First half has it listed in her Special Rules, second half does not. WTF GW?!?

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:Asked in YMDC but would get more attention here, is St. Celestine an IC?

Yes. Unless an Errata is published changing her Bestiary entry, she is described as having the Independent Character special rule in the document which explicitly replaced Codex: Witch Hunters (whereas the second half merely 'implicitly' does so).

Mythal wrote:

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:Asked in YMDC but would get more attention here, is St. Celestine an IC?

Yes. Unless an Errata is published changing her Bestiary entry, she is described as having the Independent Character special rule in the document which explicitly replaced Codex: Witch Hunters (whereas the second half merely 'implicitly' does so).

How does hat jive with the Arco-Flagellant's statistics, though? Explicitly changed in the besitary, implicitly changed back in the army list...

Dysartes wrote:How does hat jive with the Arco-Flagellant's statistics, though? Explicitly changed in the besitary, implicitly changed back in the army list...

I would take the Bestiary's stats as gospel for the Arco-Flagellant. Mainly because at 15 points per model, I'd never field one of them in place of a DCA.

As a side-note, even in the Army List her unit type is listed as "Jump Infantry (character)". Compare this to, for example, Mephiston, who is explicitly intended not to be treated as an IC, and thus has the unit type "Infantry" - it certainly implies that the failure to reiterate the Independent Character rule is a typographical error, rather than an intentional nerf.

I just wouldn't put Celestine in a squad. Next to one is fine, but joined seems like a bad idea.

I'm actually astonished that the whole St Celestine Typo thing is causing such a big deal. I owe an apology to Melissia for disregarding her concerns on the matter - I honestly didn't think anyone would be so petty and small-minded as to try and take advantage of a typo in a copy of White Dwarf to gain a leg-up over an already underpowered army, but the thread in YMDC has proven me all kinds of wrong. Consider me educated - there really are people like that in the hobby. Damn, I must have been looking the other way when they slipped through the door.

I guess it must be the folks I play with - we generally aren't out to screw each other over, just have a laugh while moving toy soldiers around.

So I'm having trouble against 3++ stormshields.

Im finding without my own 3++, I'm having a lot of trouble dealing with BA/DA and GKs right now, if seraphim get into melee they are gone; celestine tends to go up and down like a necrophile in a morge, but without the 3++ I find my girls are being torn apart without enough of an answer.

Jacobs + assasins + crusaders do their job though, but it's hard making sure it's in position.

I can't decide on eviscerators right now; seems super necessary to get wounds in, but they just get killed off.

If only repentia could use their AoF in the enemy turn, I'd consider loading them in my retributor rhino.

Anyone got advice for the match up?

Edit:
Re Celestine:
I would draw you all to the following line on page 94 of the first white dwarf, under Acts of faith:

"+1 if the unit is joined by at least one of the following independant characters: Canoness, Ecclesiarchal Confessor, Saint Celestine, Uriah Jacobus or Arch-Confessor Kyrinov."

Sadly, your opponent is entirely within his rights to point out that the rules are that the latest publication takes precedence.

Spiku wrote:So I'm having trouble against 3++ stormshields.

Im finding without my own 3++, I'm having a lot of trouble dealing with BA/DA and GKs right now, if seraphim get into melee they are gone; celestine tends to go up and down like a necrophile in a morge, but without the 3++ I find my girls are being torn apart without enough of an answer.

Jacobs + assasins + crusaders do their job though, but it's hard making sure it's in position.

I can't decide on eviscerators right now; seems super necessary to get wounds in, but they just get killed off.

If only repentia could use their AoF in the enemy turn, I'd consider loading them in my retributor rhino.

Anyone got advice for the match up?

The only unit in your force capable of going toe-to-toe with a squad of 3++ is the Conclave. That's just the way it is. Thankfully, they're also the most cost-effective CC unit in the Codex - you're just limited by your HQ options in terms of how many you can field. There's nothing in your ranged armory that can do much to a squad like that, since Sisters lack pie plates - even an Exorcist will on average inflict <1 unsaved wound per barrage (slightly worse than a BSS unloading rapidfire bolter shots at them, assuming MEQ).

I would recommend rather than seeking out melee with such heavy infantry, take ground and wait for them to come to you - that makes putting your Conclave in position, theoretically, much easier, and gives you more time for your basic battle sisters to have at least done a little whittling of their numbers. That said, all of my advice is conjecture as I'm still waiting on my first full-scale application of the new Codex against MEQ, and as such haven't faced off against the dreaded 2+/3++ spam yet (just been doing some skirmishes this weekend to look at how they perform).

Spiku wrote:Sadly, your opponent is entirely within his rights to point out that the rules are that the latest publication takes precedence.

At which point I'd invite him to find someone else to play with. Possibly himself.

Cofessor Dallax wrote:So what evidence do you have to the contrary or even a compelling argument to suggest that this isn't the case?
Games Workshop have put their prices up to ridiculous new levels on ALL of their products this year, when they HAVE to be aware that there is a global economic crisis going on. They are obviously aware that there are some nut cases like myself who will still try to buy their products even at extortionate prices, that's why. Sell less but make more money when doing so. I mean let's be serious for a moment - when have Games Workshop made anything cheaper in the last x years???
Some stupid business analyst like myself has looked at the sales figures and come to the conclusion (rightly or wrongly), that this is the best idea.

How many other armies does GW sell where the following takes place?

Customer: Hello. I'd like to buy some basic troop models for the Sisters of Battle army.
GW Store Employee: Sure thing. Leave me your contact information, and I'll call you in a couple of weeks when the figures get here.

I rest my case.


Remember - you can't walk into any store and purchase these off the shelf. Your FLGS can't even special order them. Not only has GW made them quite expensive to purchase, but GW has also made it so that you need to jump through multiple hoops just to collect the basic figures for the army.

Let's face reality. GW does not care about Sisters of Battle. The 3rd ed. Codex was sadly better than this garbage. I seriously doubt that they will even produce a new SoB codex after this fiasco. There won't be enough interest in it to make it profitable.

I highly highly doubt they will drop Sisters of Battle, esp considering the amount of chatter it's been producing.

Fetterkey wrote:

Eremiel wrote:Most likely, I'll be buying a second set of WD issues so I can pull it apart and make copies of each page of our "'dex", use a pamphlet punch and put it in booklet form.

The bad old days return... hopefully we won't see a full return to the days of Chapter Approved, where you often had to have a "WD binder" with the latest rulings and articles for your army in addition to the Codex and rulebook.

Old Whine: "There's no reason to buy White Dwarf!!!!"

New Whine: "Now I have to buy White Dwarf!!!"




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eumerin wrote:

Cofessor Dallax wrote:So what evidence do you have to the contrary or even a compelling argument to suggest that this isn't the case?
Games Workshop have put their prices up to ridiculous new levels on ALL of their products this year, when they HAVE to be aware that there is a global economic crisis going on. They are obviously aware that there are some nut cases like myself who will still try to buy their products even at extortionate prices, that's why. Sell less but make more money when doing so. I mean let's be serious for a moment - when have Games Workshop made anything cheaper in the last x years???
Some stupid business analyst like myself has looked at the sales figures and come to the conclusion (rightly or wrongly), that this is the best idea.

How many other armies does GW sell where the following takes place?

Customer: Hello. I'd like to buy some basic troop models for the Sisters of Battle army.
GW Store Employee: Sure thing. Leave me your contact information, and I'll call you in a couple of weeks when the figures get here.

Necrons, 90% of LotR, Anything that didn't make the jump to Finecast.

Sorry petal, it's not just you. Special orders are here to stay.

Worglock wrote:

Eumerin wrote:Customer: Hello. I'd like to buy some basic troop models for the Sisters of Battle army.
GW Store Employee: Sure thing. Leave me your contact information, and I'll call you in a couple of weeks when the figures get here.

Necrons, 90% of LotR, Anything that didn't make the jump to Finecast.

Sorry petal, it's not just you. Special orders are here to stay.

I've never seen a LGS without a Necron Warrior box available for sale. On top of that, Necrons have a sensible Battleforce set unlike Sisters which have none.

Necron Warriors come in a nice box that builds a full unit of warriors plus gives you some scarabs, Sisters now come in packs of 3 (meaning you need to buy at least 4 packs to field a unit). I really don't think you can even try to draw a comparison between the two.

Yeaaah, don't even bother trying that comparison.

Amaya wrote:Let's face reality. GW does not care about Sisters of Battle. The 3rd ed. Codex was sadly better than this garbage. I seriously doubt that they will even produce a new SoB codex after this fiasco. There won't be enough interest in it to make it profitable.

I'm pretty sure that the WD Codex is, in fact, meant to basically say to players the exact opposite, (IE "Hey, we haven't forgotten Sisters! Here's some new rules and stuff until we get the actual codex done!"). I would hope they're not going to judge demand for a new Sisters Codex based on sale of Sisters minis post-WD Codex. It seems unlikely, though, as supposedly the new SoB models are close to being ready for production (or so I thought I read somewhere), which would mean they're coming either way.

"...until we get the actual codex done!"

I think there would be less complaints if they actually said this much in the White Dwarf. Even as a "temporary" set of rules it still sucks and looks like no effort went into them, but it would piss people off less if they had some kind of confirmation that there would be something to come later that would actually be of acceptable quality.

Oh, I agree. That's what they SHOULD do. But, as well all know, letting your customers know what your future plans are is a devastating policy that will ruin everything!