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lord marcus wrote:
@ Kan, no its not.

FHoH was responding to your deadpan statement that he should make alternative rules and mini's.

It wasn't deadpan. I'm deadly serious.
It doesn't take a gaming savant to realize that if you have the rules for Space Hulk and the board, you can do whatever you please afterwards. There's no EULA stopping you from making your own expansions so you can play with your own gaming group that enjoys Space Hulk.

If he released minis, there is a chance he could be sued for copyright infringment, hence the point he was trying to make was totally missed by you.

No, his point was that "not everyone likes to convert", as evidenced by the fact that he then went on a rant about how I am a bad person for having no issues with things like gluing a piece from kit X onto a piece from kit Y.

Fullheadofhair wrote:Because I think your attitude of "write your own rules and make your own mini's" sucks. Pardon me for wanting some cool new looking minis that are as dynamic and exciting as the terms and 'nids from Space Hulk - but heck, why change your opinion that people don't need it.

So it's a case of "X got this, why doesn't Y!" then. Can't say I'm surprised, it's absurdly common around these parts.

Some of us don't convert.

I call bollocks. Conversion doesn't mean that everything needs to essentially be done from scratch or you need green sculpting skills. If you've ever cut a bolter grip off a bolter so you can glue your bolters onto your Space Marines--congratulations! You've done a rudimentary conversion!


To do an Ork Warband looting a Space Hulk, I can't imagine you would need anything beyond a box of Lootas and a box of Nobs, and if you really wanted to get classy a Kommando conversion kit from FW that you can spread the contents of across both to make more 'characterful' models.

If I could write balanced rules I would get a job at GW.

I doubt that. It's not simply writing balanced rules that they look for, but you keep right on believing that.

I mean, come on, why should GW make a profit by selling me something for a game that is already popular.

What proof do you have that it necessarily is popular enough to merit expansions? We have a lot of anecdotal evidence, but GW doesn't necessarily look at that for deciding what they should do. I know quite a few people who have no interest in playing Space Hulk--that doesn't mean that everyone will never, ever play Space Hulk. It means that in my experience that people won't play Space Hulk.

Some of us don't own any orks or necrons.

And? It's not like you need to make an army to do it.

Just cannot stand those people who have a superior look at me I am such a better hobbyist than you attitude.

...
Yes. I clearly posted in this thread so that I can beat you upside the head with my hobby ePeen. It's how I got all the scantily clad women in my harem, with my mad conversion skillz. I like to call them my Glue Girls.

I cannot stand these people who think everything needs to be spoonfed to them. If GW did an Ork "expansion" for Space Hulk, you'd still likely be complaining because it wasn't Dark Eldar or the Orks included were dumb.

Your comment falls way short of any semblence of logic and is just defending a poor earlier comment.

If you say so.

I do it because sometimes you just damn well deserve it.

Rationalizing why you can't have a good argument defending your stance is fun.

I find alot of your comments just fall woefully short of some degree of common sense

To use an example of your "common sense"--I'll point you towards your earlier smart-mouth remark of:

Now if only GW had shops here you could go in and look at the product before you bought. Maybe even a helpful staff member that could help and explain the differences between the games. You know what would be cool - demo games - if only they did demo games using well painted mini's and some cool terrain. I will write immediately to GW and suggest that.

Go on GW's site and look at North Carolina's store makeup. We have nothing but independents, and not all independents are going to end up being a "FLGS". It currently is that if I want to introduce someone to 40k, I have to bust out my own stuff to do demo games.

Common sense is all fine and dandy to talk about, but in practice it just isn't common.

and acknowledgement that people have different ideas.

I have no problems acknowledging that people have different ideas.
What I have a problem with is that everyone assuming that what they want is what everyone should want.

Grimstonefire wrote:I'm really excited about this.

I'm going to sculpt loads of ships, maybe 10-15 per race (some being cast) so I can play proper fleet based battles.

Awesome stuff.

Flashman. Supposedly 35,000 worldwide. Not sure how that compares to space hulk?

Grimstonefire- I would love to see that! Maybe even purchase a few, if possible down the line and they're generic enough for you to cast or were at all interested in doing so.

Panic- Just wanted to say that I'm with you. The rhetoric got a little heated on both sides, I just don't get why there's so much hate for this game. You don't have to buy it... vote with your wallet, as always.

Personally, I highly prefer this game over even the recent ogres release, and am voting with my wallet by buying it. Doing the opposite with 40k, as I finally decided I don't want to have to spend $1000 to get the army that I want together to play...

Also, regarding this:

Panic wrote:they havn't given away much about gameplay yet.
i think this week will see a demo game in the blog, like they did with space hulk.
Looking at the tools? sorry about the quick hack and slash photo (from the GW photos)


on the sprue you have a 18" ruler with two pivot points.
you also get two ships wheels. I'm guessing to limit each turn to a maximum of 135°
and a wind compass?

I have no idea of how you decide wind direction changes? there is no eight sided die in the box?
and Speculation... but it looks like each ship can turn twice and the fastest ship will move 18"
Looks kinda cool in the photo weaving between the rocks.

I really hope they do play out a demo game in the blog this week showing the gameplay, that'd be sweet! The current info shows pretty much everything there is to see about the box contents, but very, very little about gameplay / rules other than what the cards will basically do and how long the rulebook is

Kanluwen wrote:What I have a problem with is that everyone assuming that what they want is what everyone should want.

What I have a problem with is people de-railing a thread in order to shout down anyone with a different opinion to their own. You've made your point: People can make their own game add-ons if they choose. The other side has made their point: Some people would rather not, and would buy such things if they were available. Both sides have, for some inexplicable reason, chosen to be rude about the fact that the other side has a different opinion.

So how about we all make a little more effort to act like grown-ups, and move on?

fullheadofhair wrote:

Resorting to insults and sarcasm because your points are not actually valid isn't a good way to make yourself look better.

I do it because sometimes you just damn well deserve it.

I would recommend against that approach if you wish to continue posting on these boards.

No one responded to my question about whether there is a "Dark Elf" ship, as someone posted earlier. It would seem to have to be the "Swordfish" ship, if it was anything...

Also, what warhammer race would the floating "ghost ship" line up with? Just another aspect of vampire counts?

I'm not a Warhammer player so I can't say for sure, but after watching the video I was under the impression the 'ghost ship' was just a bunch of undead, and vaguely remember the sword fish ship being captained by some pirate looking chick...

Jake

- Edited by insaniak. It wasn't a suggestion.-

CptJake wrote:I'm not a Warhammer player so I can't say for sure, but after watching the video I was under the impression the 'ghost ship' was just a bunch of undead, and vaguely remember the sword fish ship being captained by some pirate looking chick...

Jake

Yeah, she was definitely a pirate-looking chick . I guess I was wondering if it's possible that she's a dark elf, as that'd be the only real way that could work... maybe the poster who said there was a dark elf designated ship was mistaken, though.

It would've made sense as they have dwarfs/chaos dwarfs (the steel ship and the mechanical squid) to have high elf/dark elf.

RiTides wrote:No one responded to my question about whether there is a "Dark Elf" ship, as someone posted earlier. It would seem to have to be the "Swordfish" ship, if it was anything...

Also, what warhammer race would the floating "ghost ship" line up with? Just another aspect of vampire counts?

No Dark Elf ship. The Swordfish vessel is also owned by a human pirate.

Some comments:

1.) Dreadfleet is not a boardgame, it has no board. It is a small self-contained tabletop game with terrain included.
2.) FFG can't do something like this as it contains 6 plastic sprues for highly detailed and complex ship models. I like FFG games, but those one piece wobbly soft-plastic miniatures as featured in Descent or Doom are a different league.
3.) I think you get a good idea of the basic game mecanisms if you watch the video. You have movement, broadside (ranged combat) and boarding action (close combat) by 10 ships with each having some special rules. Modular terrain and those event cards give some variety.
4.) The one single piece in this box that changed my mind from "not interested" to "still considering" is the gaming mat. This item is something that will enhance all naval wargames tremendously, including Dystopian Wars and Uncharted Seas. I haven't seen any sea mat looking that good (only photorealistic mats coming close, but only for realistic WW1/WW2 naval games, not Fantasy games). And this is an effect far surpassing the usefullness and fun of the Dreadfleet game itself. It might be a limited release without any expansions, but from now on Spartan Games will look even better.
5.) Just because people here might be interested, here some sources for 28mm ships:

Ziterdes: http://www.ziterdes.de/ziterdes/en/produkte/listview.php?catID=72&subcatID=85







Old Glory http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/categories.asp?cat=368
(pics attached at the end of the post)

lord_blackfang wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:Mantic has the invaluable advantage of not having to deal with Phil "Space Wolf" Kelly -ing up any semblance of a balanced and fun gaming rules at whatever he touches.

Yeah, instead Mantic has the guy who single-handedly ruined Fantasy, or so I'm told

Wait, Mat Ward author of the Daemon army book is now with mantic?
And Phil Kelly wrote the awesome Dark Eldar Codex, for me the best written Codex out there.

Great points, Kroot. Particularly:

Kroothawk wrote:3.) I think you get a good idea of the basic game mecanisms if you watch the video. You have movement, broadside (ranged combat) and boarding action (close combat) by 10 ships with each having some special rules. Modular terrain and those event cards give some variety.

You're right that they gave us those broad strokes, I'm just wondering about more of the specifics (and whether there are scenarios / objectives or similar, and how it plays out). Rumors had mentioned that not all scenarios would use all the ships, not sure if that still seems to be true.

Kroothawk wrote:4.) The one single piece in this box that changed my mind from "not interested" to "still considering" is the gaming mat. This item is something that will enhance all naval wargames tremendously, including Dystopian Wars and Uncharted Seas. I haven't seen any sea mat looking that good (only photorealistic mats coming close, but only for realistic WW1/WW2 naval games, not Fantasy games). And this is an effect far surpassing the usefullness and fun of the Dreadfleet game itself. It might be a limited release without any expansions, but from now on Spartan Games will look even better.

The mat looks amazing and is definitely a bonus as I am considering other ship games if I try this out and like it!

Edit: Also, the Old Glory pics aren't showing up for me.

Thank you, Insaniak.

I'm still undecided myself as to whether to get it or not.

I got space hulk, but I always take squad Lorenzo in my games of 40k, whereas this stuff's unusable anywhere else.

Kroothawk wrote:Some comments:

2.) FFG can't do something like this as it contains 6 plastic sprues for highly detailed and complex ship models. I like FFG games, but those one piece wobbly soft-plastic miniatures as featured in Descent or Doom are a different league.

4.) The one single piece in this box that changed my mind from "not interested" to "still considering" is the gaming mat. This item is something that will enhance all naval wargames tremendously, including Dystopian Wars and Uncharted Seas. I haven't seen any sea mat looking that good (only photorealistic mats coming close, but only for realistic WW1/WW2 naval games, not Fantasy games). And this is an effect far surpassing the usefullness and fun of the Dreadfleet game itself. It might be a limited release without any expansions, but from now on Spartan Games will look even better.

Yes and yes!

For about as long as everyone played Planetstrike.

Still writing fairly cool scenarios to it in my gaming grp. Woah WTFlol? Someone actually using it?

Give it a rest HMBC.

Tedious dosent get close.

Relapse wrote:

Mr.Malevolent wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:
And Im crossing fingers that they do, so that next year we get something like warhammer quest or mordheim...

We can only hope.

At a local store here, people are using the Malifaux boards for Mordheim, making for some pretty incredible looking games. I bet the same thing could be used for Quest.

Thats a very nice idea, using the malifaux buildings for those games should make them a much more visual experience.

BrookM wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Some comments:

2.) FFG can't do something like this as it contains 6 plastic sprues for highly detailed and complex ship models. I like FFG games, but those one piece wobbly soft-plastic miniatures as featured in Descent or Doom are a different league.

4.) The one single piece in this box that changed my mind from "not interested" to "still considering" is the gaming mat. This item is something that will enhance all naval wargames tremendously, including Dystopian Wars and Uncharted Seas. I haven't seen any sea mat looking that good (only photorealistic mats coming close, but only for realistic WW1/WW2 naval games, not Fantasy games). And this is an effect far surpassing the usefullness and fun of the Dreadfleet game itself. It might be a limited release without any expansions, but from now on Spartan Games will look even better.

Yes and yes!

Agree on the game mat. It's the best part of the set.

I disagree on the wobbly game pieces. They're good enough to play the game. I'd rather have ffg:s one piece ships and resultant lower price for the pretty sea-map and fun little game that might get expansions.

Mat does look really nice---but what size is it?

AgeOfEgos wrote:Mat does look really nice---but what size is it?

5' by 3.5' according to GW.

Does anyone have an idea about the scale of those ships?

It's kinda hard to estimate it from the photos and I was wondering if a couple of Gothic chaos cruisers wouldn't be a cheap, easy source of fixes for some of the most glaring problems (like the Empire ship).

There's a scale shot on the "What's New" page. The largest ships are 100mm long:

I'd love to pick this up - but I cannot at this time justify spending $100+ US on it!

Just think of us poor aussies, 190 bucks I mean c'mon.

Tech Guard wrote:Just think of us poor aussies, 190 bucks I mean c'mon.

Yup. £70 works out to AU$106 at the moment. Even with shipping, buying direct from GW UK (those nasty freeloaders who are destroying the hobby here in Oz by selling to us at UK prices) works out at $150.

I ordered it, I may or may not end up playing it, but I admit, the limited edition/self contained games are very appealing. Crimson Steam Pirates on iPad also got me in the nautical mood too. Looks cool!

Forgive me, I have not been able to follow the thread that comprehensively, do we know anything about the rules yet and if yes is there a page I could look at?

insaniak wrote:

Tech Guard wrote:Just think of us poor aussies, 190 bucks I mean c'mon.

Yup. £70 works out to AU$106 at the moment. Even with shipping, buying direct from GW UK (those nasty freeloaders who are destroying the hobby here in Oz by selling to us at UK prices) works out at $150.

But ph34r proved you guys are all rich in some other thread and can easily afford it.

Never mind that GW's competition sells their products closer to being in accordance with exchange rates, from what I have read.

Never mind that even though it's true that the average wage of an Australian is higher than the average wage of an American, it's higher by just under 50%, which apparently justifies GW products being in the neighborhood of 60 to 70% more expensive.

€90?

Take 3-4 good friends and split it: 20 quid each?
Wow, a round + a pack of cancer sticks?
Want the bank balance?

Maybe mine

- Off-topic image removed by insaniak -

RatBot wrote:But ph34r proved you guys are all rich in some other thread and can easily afford it.

Never mind that GW's competition sells their products in accordance with exchange rates.

Never mind that even though it's true that the average wage of an Australian is higher than the average wage of an American, it's higher by just under 50%, which apparently justifies GW products being in the neighborhood of 60 to 70% more expensive.

Just to head it off at the pass, let's not turn this into another cost of living debate.

I pointed out the comparative prices simply as an FYI for any Aussies who might be interested. Because $150 is much more appealing than just under $200... $120-$150 is not too unreasonable down here for the higher end 'boutique' boardgames. If GW had given us a little more time to get excited (ie: put some money aside) by, say, spending the last 8 weeks previewing those ships one by one for example, and had released the game at a realistic price point, I would have been there signing over my credit card the moment it went on pre-order.

As it is, $200 is more than I'm prepared to pay for a boardgame. And $150 is still out of impulse buy territory. If they're still available in a month, I'll reconsider.

Sorry Insaniak, didnt mean any offense.

yes but whilst we also earn a higher wage basic needs go through the roof. So I guess in effect it comes to around about the same, maybe we earn a bit more but not much.

Do I need to write the bit about not turning this into another cost of living debate in red?

sorry man I was still typing when you posted that.