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You really should at minimum outflank 5 of them. Using those CP adds up, especially when Space Wolves don't exactly have bad Strategems.

im not sure where i should look to find the answer but weird rules question in the index a rune priest on bike only knows 1 power and there is no option for him in codex. Does he only know 1 power or was it updated like everything else to know two powers ?

He's index only so 1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for Agressors.
I think the main point which is absolutely true is that they are a good distraction canifex..........tough not so much but they cant be ignored in most cases if you position the outflank well.

Threat of double tap and threat of powerfist stats in melee mean not many armies can just ignore them.

From the Chapter Approved 2018 Designers Commentary:

Q: The points cost for a ‘Storm shield (Thunderwolf Cavalry)’
does not appear in the Space Wolves section of the updated
points values in Chapter Approved: 2018 Edition, but there
is an entry for ‘Storm shield (other models)’. What points value
should I use for my Thunderwolf Cavalry models?
A: Use the value in Codex: Space Wolves: 10 points
per model.

Nice of them to clearify, but it is stil to high. Next year probably.

Yeah, I just read that and I was PISSED! Why should TWC have to pay character prices for Storm Shields? It's like they don't want people to play them or something.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Yeah, I just read that and I was PISSED! Why should TWC have to pay character prices for Storm Shields? It's like they don't want people to play them or something.

Probably because 2 points for the Storm Shield is ABSURD in the first place? It's really only an item you take some of, not on everyone.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Yeah, I just read that and I was PISSED! Why should TWC have to pay character prices for Storm Shields? It's like they don't want people to play them or something.

Probably because 2 points for the Storm Shield is ABSURD in the first place? It's really only an item you take some of, not on everyone.

5 points would be okay since others get it for 2, but 10 seems a bit high considering the TWC are 40ppm base. TWC also have a lot of limitations that restrict their usefulness already, such as not being able to go up floors in ruins. That alone is probably a deal breaker, but not getting cheaper storm shields when everyone else does hurts them.

Maybe the way to go is to take 6 man units, give 3 of them Storm Shields and the others just chainswords (maybe 2 chainswords for more attacks) and take a Power Fist on the leader to enable the unit to hurt bigger stuff (not that they should be going after big stuff, but if a Knight charges them it'd be nice to be able to do a few wounds).

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Yeah, I just read that and I was PISSED! Why should TWC have to pay character prices for Storm Shields? It's like they don't want people to play them or something.

Probably because 2 points for the Storm Shield is ABSURD in the first place? It's really only an item you take some of, not on everyone.

5 points would be okay since others get it for 2, but 10 seems a bit high considering the TWC are 40ppm base. TWC also have a lot of limitations that restrict their usefulness already, such as not being able to go up floors in ruins. That alone is probably a deal breaker, but not getting cheaper storm shields when everyone else does hurts them.

Maybe the way to go is to take 6 man units, give 3 of them Storm Shields and the others just chainswords (maybe 2 chainswords for more attacks) and take a Power Fist on the leader to enable the unit to hurt bigger stuff (not that they should be going after big stuff, but if a Knight charges them it'd be nice to be able to do a few wounds).

My typically mantra is 1 Shield per three dudes, so for a six man you would only need 2 Shields. It cuts down on cost and should be just the amount to tank the bigger stuff shot their way.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Yeah, I just read that and I was PISSED! Why should TWC have to pay character prices for Storm Shields? It's like they don't want people to play them or something.

Probably because 2 points for the Storm Shield is ABSURD in the first place? It's really only an item you take some of, not on everyone.

5 points would be okay since others get it for 2, but 10 seems a bit high considering the TWC are 40ppm base. TWC also have a lot of limitations that restrict their usefulness already, such as not being able to go up floors in ruins. That alone is probably a deal breaker, but not getting cheaper storm shields when everyone else does hurts them.

Maybe the way to go is to take 6 man units, give 3 of them Storm Shields and the others just chainswords (maybe 2 chainswords for more attacks) and take a Power Fist on the leader to enable the unit to hurt bigger stuff (not that they should be going after big stuff, but if a Knight charges them it'd be nice to be able to do a few wounds).

TWC also took a massive hit in versatility this edition since the damage of their attacks is no longer tied to the buff from the wolf. We've basically ended up with a unit that's durable and expensive like heavy infantry, but who are only really good at killing light hordes, and even then they're just not going to get their points back.

That's only because CA didn't include SW properly, just things that were in common with SM.

Storm shields for TWC have their own unique entry on the codex, it's not something shared with SM and they'll soon get a new points value when all the other SW stuff will be included in a round of FAQs.

After all if the codex says 15 points for characters, 10 for TWC and 5 for other dudes and now it's 10 for characters and 2 for other dudes I don't see any reason not to put TWC shields at 5-6 points. A 40ppm TWC certainly doesn't have the same value of a character, his shield must be cheaper.

CA was bad for Space Wolves.

Frost weapons did not get a price reduction. There is no reason to take them when they're in the power-fist ballpark. The cheapest frost weapon i think is the sword, which is only 2 points less than the power fist.

SW dreadnoughts like Wulfen Dreads didn't see a price reduction because they aren't a copy-paste from SM. They are unusable.

Our characters didn't see a price reduction either. Murderfang is essentially the same cost as the Loyal32 in its entirety. Wut?

Wolf Guard Pack Leaders are still 16 points, when Wolf Guard are 14 points by default. This makes no sense at all.

And of course storm shields for TWC are obscene. Even with 2 point stormshields TWC aren't something you'd include in every list, or probably at all. 40 points base for 2 attacks, and 3 wolf attacks but tied to the CAVALRY keyword? It's just generally not worth it. And the price goes up if you want anything besides a chainsword? Yuck.

What's the opinion on termies wg after CA.
PF+ss at 34pts
PA+ss at 30pts
Looks like could have some punch with Arjac around.
With wulfen saga lord and wolf saga battle leader, with a wulfen stone sprinkled on top, you could be looking at 6 attacks each in a perfect world, most likely 3-4.

5 dudes with PF+SS at 170 points are a valid unit. Of course they need to be supported but SW should always have 2-3 punching units and 1-2 punching characters.

 Marmatag wrote:
CA was bad for Space Wolves.

Frost weapons did not get a price reduction. There is no reason to take them when they're in the power-fist ballpark. The cheapest frost weapon i think is the sword, which is only 2 points less than the power fist.

SW dreadnoughts like Wulfen Dreads didn't see a price reduction because they aren't a copy-paste from SM. They are unusable.

Our characters didn't see a price reduction either. Murderfang is essentially the same cost as the Loyal32 in its entirety. Wut?

Wolf Guard Pack Leaders are still 16 points, when Wolf Guard are 14 points by default. This makes no sense at all.

And of course storm shields for TWC are obscene. Even with 2 point stormshields TWC aren't something you'd include in every list, or probably at all. 40 points base for 2 attacks, and 3 wolf attacks but tied to the CAVALRY keyword? It's just generally not worth it. And the price goes up if you want anything besides a chainsword? Yuck.

Space Wolves are not included in CA, our Codex came out too close to it. It was announced awhile back that we'll receive points changes in FAQ 1 I think?

I was disappointed by the change BUT... it means Wulfen just get another buff, so no big deal IMO. TWC are cool and I will use them in fun games but when I plan on smashing I'll bring the Wulfen out.

It also improves our Wolf Guard and WG Termies... storm shields + power fists makes them cheap, durable and brutal in combat with our charge. Stick Arjac with them. I am now retooling my army to be centered around Primaris infantry and Wolf Guard veterans. Wolf guard will be Jump pack ss/sb and regular with ss/frost sword. Then a termie squad. Arjac gives them all +1 attack. Intercessors to hold ground while all that stuff moves up.

Slot in your preference after that.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
They are tougher to hurt than most infantry, t5 and 2w with 3+ save is better than t4 1w 3+. Maybe i should have said tougher to kill than just tough to kill, its all about what is getting shot at by what. Aggressors wont survive any better vs a whirlwind than a heavy weapon team but they will take the hits from heavy bolters better.

They're 37 points for T5 3+ W2.

They're NOT tough and I haven't a slightest clue where you get your math from for them to be tough.

Dude why is it in every thread you come across so willfuly arrogant? You dont have any idea where my math came from? T5 > T4 so T5 is tougher than T4. Its that simple. Can they take a las cannon to the chest no problem? No. But they are still tougher to wound vs said las cannon than an intercessor or grey hunter.

Yes they are expensive for a few models, and yes they die to concentrated fire, so do most things not a knight and even then a knight can be killed in 1 turn to the right setup of cultists.

If you dont agree with me then fine, you can say that and do it in a way that isnt always so disrespectful and combative. Say why you dont agree, give your own examples, and let others make up their minds based off of both sides of the discussion. You dont have to attack the person who has a different opinion than you all the time.

Then please show the math they're tough compared to other units in the codex. I await your results.

T5 rarely gets doubled out, that’s about as good as it gets.
Getting wounded on 3+ rather than 2+ by a Las Canon is always nice.
Getting wounded on 4+ rather than 3+ by a H Bolter is always nice.
Getting wounded on 5+ rather than 4+ by Stubbers and Bolters is nice too.
My local meta laughs at invulnerable saves and T5 because my opponents armies are spewing Mortal Wounds or masses of S3 0AP shots not that I’m bitter or anything, maybe his opponents are mostly Marine and Orc armies.
I’m running Whirlwinds and Stormhawk Interceptors enforced by clawed Terminators rather than Wolves of any kind.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
They are tougher to hurt than most infantry, t5 and 2w with 3+ save is better than t4 1w 3+. Maybe i should have said tougher to kill than just tough to kill, its all about what is getting shot at by what. Aggressors wont survive any better vs a whirlwind than a heavy weapon team but they will take the hits from heavy bolters better.

They're 37 points for T5 3+ W2.

They're NOT tough and I haven't a slightest clue where you get your math from for them to be tough.

Dude why is it in every thread you come across so willfuly arrogant? You dont have any idea where my math came from? T5 > T4 so T5 is tougher than T4. Its that simple. Can they take a las cannon to the chest no problem? No. But they are still tougher to wound vs said las cannon than an intercessor or grey hunter.

Yes they are expensive for a few models, and yes they die to concentrated fire, so do most things not a knight and even then a knight can be killed in 1 turn to the right setup of cultists.

If you dont agree with me then fine, you can say that and do it in a way that isnt always so disrespectful and combative. Say why you dont agree, give your own examples, and let others make up their minds based off of both sides of the discussion. You dont have to attack the person who has a different opinion than you all the time.

Then please show the math they're tough compared to other units in the codex. I await your results.

T5 rarely gets doubled out, that’s about as good as it gets.
Getting wounded on 3+ rather than 2+ by a Las Canon is always nice.
Getting wounded on 4+ rather than 3+ by a H Bolter is always nice.
Getting wounded on 5+ rather than 4+ by Stubbers and Bolters is nice too.
My local meta laughs at invulnerable saves and T5 because my opponents armies are spewing Mortal Wounds or masses of S3 0AP shots not that I’m bitter or anything, maybe his opponents are mostly Marine and Orc armies.
I’m running Whirlwinds and Stormhawk Interceptors enforced by clawed Terminators rather than Wolves of any kind.

And all that only matters when you're cheap enough is the point bring made. Aggressors are offensively capable but we can't pretend they're durable in any sense of the word, because they aren't.

If your group allows Index options, WG Stormbolter bikers just got slightly more viable. Getting full shots at 24" with the Beta Bolters rule they are now less likely to be shut down by getting charged. Previously you had to get within 12" to get full shots which is danger close.

Also wolf-guard terms with sb/ss is 133 points.

That is a ridiculously cheap and durable unit. Imagine tarpitting backline with that unit.

200 points for the bike version.

165 for sb/pfist tartaros. all very good prices.

COLD CASH wrote:
Also wolf-guard terms with sb/ss is 133 points.

That is a ridiculously cheap and durable unit. Imagine tarpitting backline with that unit.

At that point I'd go with the 170 points squad, full PF/SS, so they can actually kill something. 20 bolters shots aren't that scary, it's 5-6 cheap troops killed, zero damage or maybe 1W to the armored stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Weazel wrote:
If your group allows Index options, WG Stormbolter bikers just got slightly more viable. Getting full shots at 24" with the Beta Bolters rule they are now less likely to be shut down by getting charged. Previously you had to get within 12" to get full shots which is danger close.

Yeah I already loved them as they were amazing to create holes for wulfen or WG termies and getting closer wasn't tipycally a issue as I usually bring 2-3 melee units to support them. Actually they are the support for the melee units. The issue was that they may not be in rapid fire range in turn 1, now they fire their max shots pretty much every time.

Space wolves infsntery in 5th editon and 6th editonnliked to fight 12" away with theyr rapid fire and counter attack. The new beta bolter rule would benefit us a lot, no?

 Niiai wrote:
Space wolves infsntery in 5th editon and 6th editonnliked to fight 12" away with theyr rapid fire and counter attack. The new beta bolter rule would benefit us a lot, no?

Absolutely it would benefit. The key thing to remember though is you'll mostly want to be on the move. It just helps the 1 or 2 times you aren't.

Well if the troops ard within 12" they get the bennefit.

Of course the landraider with the bolters, bikes of any kind get a lot of benefits from it

COLD CASH wrote:
Also wolf-guard terms with sb/ss is 133 points.

That is a ridiculously cheap and durable unit. Imagine tarpitting backline with that unit.

You don't even need to go for full squads. A WGPL in TDA with SS/SB is just 27 points and adds a huge amount of tankiness to your GH packs and now adds some decent firepower too. Given that CA2018 missions emphasize the importance of keeping Troop units alive to score, adding a single model with 2W, 2+/3++ for the cost of 2 extra bodies seems like a good deal.

 Weazel wrote:
If your group allows Index options, WG Stormbolter bikers just got slightly more viable. Getting full shots at 24" with the Beta Bolters rule they are now less likely to be shut down by getting charged. Previously you had to get within 12" to get full shots which is danger close.

An I reading the bolter rule wrong or can bikes, termies, and vehicles move and still shoot all there bolter shots? If so I have ten of the wolf guard bikers with Ss/SB that will be seeing play again.

Yes, you are correct. Wolf Bikers will love the new rule.

COLD CASH wrote:
Also wolf-guard terms with sb/ss is 133 points.

That is a ridiculously cheap and durable unit. Imagine tarpitting backline with that unit.

200 points for the bike version.

165 for sb/pfist tartaros. all very good prices.

However if you're doing this, you may as well just soup in some death watch, so those terminators have poisoned 2+ ammo.

There is no argument for Wolves with these new rules. Even codex marines get better mileage out of it.

 Marmatag wrote:

COLD CASH wrote:
Also wolf-guard terms with sb/ss is 133 points.

That is a ridiculously cheap and durable unit. Imagine tarpitting backline with that unit.

200 points for the bike version.

165 for sb/pfist tartaros. all very good prices.

However if you're doing this, you may as well just soup in some death watch, so those terminators have poisoned 2+ ammo.

There is no argument for Wolves with these new rules. Even codex marines get better mileage out of it.

Is SS/SB DW terms legal?

I don't see how codex marines get as much milage out of it. Deathwatch is probably the only ones who end up in a better position over us, but even then looking at the whole army we are still better.

So I was going through my closet and found 13 thunderwolves.

If I was to run:

Wolf Lord

4x Twolves
4x Twolves
4x Twolves

How would you equip them as this will be a big part of my army.

Thunder Hammers?
Cheap chainswords?

Thanks for the help!