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Any new leaks beyond the LR and fake Tau stuff?

When 8th came out I was really surprised that the basic marine did not have 2 wounds, I still hope that they will eventually change that (and point it appropriately) but am not holding my breath.

 fraser1191 wrote:
Any new leaks beyond the LR and fake Tau stuff?

Nope.

 fraser1191 wrote:
Any new leaks beyond the LR and fake Tau stuff?

The Vigilus Open Day said there will be rules for customizing characters.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
When 8th came out I was really surprised that the basic marine did not have 2 wounds, I still hope that they will eventually change that (and point it appropriately) but am not holding my breath.

Yeah, I truly believe GW was planning this, but somewhere along the design process for 8E, someone got the idea to split off a new line of Marines instead. Thus Primaris were born and any hope for regular Marines to finally live up to their fluff died.

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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Except Assault still does something in the game? Assault went from allowing charges after shooting to allowing shooting after advancing. They could have just done that.

And you would never see another stormbolter again, even at 2 points. Even at 1pt it's not so much better than a bolter that you'd take it on anything that wasn't charging.

 Galef wrote:
Yeah, I truly believe GW was planning this, but somewhere along the design process for 8E, someone got the idea to split off a new line of Marines instead. Thus Primaris were born and any hope for regular Marines to finally live up to their fluff died.
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I don't agree with this. Personally, I think they planned on having Primaris as 1W as well.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Yeah, I truly believe GW was planning this, but somewhere along the design process for 8E, someone got the idea to split off a new line of Marines instead. Thus Primaris were born and any hope for regular Marines to finally live up to their fluff died.
-

I don't agree with this. Personally, I think they planned on having Primaris as 1W as well.

Whether that's what they planned or not, I think many people would have preferred 8E started with 2W Marines and CSM (at between 14-15ppm) and the new Primaris line just being a new armour mark (maybe T5?) with new wargear.

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 Galef wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Yeah, I truly believe GW was planning this, but somewhere along the design process for 8E, someone got the idea to split off a new line of Marines instead. Thus Primaris were born and any hope for regular Marines to finally live up to their fluff died.
-

I don't agree with this. Personally, I think they planned on having Primaris as 1W as well.

Whether that's what they planned or not, I think many people would have preferred 8E started with 2W Marines and CSM (at between 14-15ppm) and the new Primaris line just being a new armour mark (maybe T5?) with new wargear.

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This is exactly what they should have done

Ofc - everyone thought it would be that way. 2 Wound tacticals is where it should have been. A number of ways they could have gone with primaris. Just give them Str 5 and T5 and a better gun and have them cost 3-4 more points.

Could people take the baseless speculation, wishlisting and other off topic chatter in the Chapter Approved thread in the General Discussion?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/765760.page

All this discussion of 2W is missing the fact that old marines are supposed to be bad so you will buy new models. Stop expecting your obsolete models to be viable and buy the new primaris kits that your army now uses. And just be glad that GW put them in the codex at all instead of making them index-only relics like everyone else's obsolete product lines.

Warhammer Community needs to get the previews rolling. The community is gonna eat itself alive at this rate.

 Peregrine wrote:
All this discussion of 2W is missing the fact that old marines are supposed to be bad so you will buy new models. Stop expecting your obsolete models to be viable and buy the new primaris kits that your army now uses. And just be glad that GW put them in the codex at all instead of making them index-only relics like everyone else's obsolete product lines.

That is really, really not why people would like to see a better stat line on marines. And does not even make sense; marines with 2w at 25ppm would still be bad.

Speaking of, to ask players with broader 40k knowledge than I: would it be better for game balance overall if infantry generally went up across the board with weaker units spared or if the weaker ones were simply reduced? I saw some theories about this when news of Boyz going up came out, and overheard conversation at my flgs about infantry spam armies being problematic in tournaments due to just swamping the board, having all the objectives, and running out the clock by round 3.

I think Guardsmen should go up to 5 and points should go up accordingly. Fewer models means lower play time generally speaking. I think games still go on a bit too long.

Tacticals should get 2W as well as Primaris.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Speaking of, to ask players with broader 40k knowledge than I: would it be better for game balance overall if infantry generally went up across the board with weaker units spared or if the weaker ones were simply reduced? I saw some theories about this when news of Boyz going up came out, and overheard conversation at my flgs about infantry spam armies being problematic in tournaments due to just swamping the board, having all the objectives, and running out the clock by round 3.

If the rumours are true, many "chaff" units will be going up a point or two, while currently overpriced "elite" infantry Troops are going down.
This is by far the better approach. Making chaff too expensive makes them worthless overall, while making more elite untis too cheap ruins their overall "feel": compared to other options.
Bringing them closer together is the better compromise.

For example, Marines are current 3x the cost of a Guardsmen, but are hardly worth that. Overall they should really only be about twice the cost.
If you bumped a Gaurdman up to 6-7ppm (to be half the cost of a current Marine), they would be clearly overcosted and garbage for their stats.
If you dropped a Marine to only 8ppm (to be twice the cost of a current Guardsman), they would end up being cheaper than other (non-chaff troop) choices that they really should be more than (or equal too). Many Xenos Troop options come to mind

However, 11ppm Marines and 5ppm Guardsman hits the "Marine is twice the cost of a Guardsman" quota without going to either extreme

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Looks like we have a post on Reddit that says the old marines are not going anywhere..... lots of other interesting notes on the link as well.

PRIMARIS
Normal space marines can be made into primaris now with surgery (or something).

Again, mini-marines aren't going anywhere.

GREY KNIGHTS ARE NOT GETTING THE PRIMARIS TREATMENT.

More on topic of CA....

CHANGING RULES IN FAQS AND CHAPTER APPROVED
They don't want to be changing the rules constantly and frequently. They say that most players aren't in the tournament circuit. Instead missions included in Chapter Approved etc. are meant to put a new spin on the rules.

They don't like the idea of having too many required books either (e.g. having one page from a campaign book, two from white dwarf etc) - they say that it will be possible to build an army without needing hundreds of different sources.

They say their goal is to have it be possible to make a good army with fewer sources. They used GSC as a specific example.

Index options are here to stay for a while. They're just not in the codex because it's bad to have a codex with selections you can't buy.

Source - https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/a00l09/i_was_at_the_vigilus_weekender_and_live_reported/

Again, GW is not going to admit the death of a product line until they're ready to discontinue the kits. They want you buying old marines up until the final day.

 fraser1191 wrote:
Any new leaks beyond the LR and fake Tau stuff?

GW Facebook said the ability to take a Power Fist on an Intercessor Sergeant is in Chapter Approved. How widespread that ability will be is not known at this time.

We have nothing seen for FW Indices right?
(DKoK, R&H, elysians)

 Peregrine wrote:
Again, GW is not going to admit the death of a product line until they're ready to discontinue the kits. They want you buying old marines up until the final day.

So.... no matter what, you just decided a rumor is true? You realize it's entirely possible that GW is telling the truth, right?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
Any new leaks beyond the LR and fake Tau stuff?

GW Facebook said the ability to take a Power Fist on an Intercessor Sergeant is in Chapter Approved. How widespread that ability will be is not known at this time.

Ah yes I saw that!

I want the fist but I have no use for the shoulders. Half the reason I have yet to get the UM sprue, I want the sword sure but if I get those shoulders in gonna need shoulders for everyone and those aren't something you can add on retrospectivly

That being said if GW does patrol these threads if they made icons that fit on top of shoulder pads I'd by oodles of them

 Karthicus wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Again, GW is not going to admit the death of a product line until they're ready to discontinue the kits. They want you buying old marines up until the final day.

So.... no matter what, you just decided a rumor is true? You realize it's entirely possible that GW is telling the truth, right?

"Non-Primaris marines getting binned" is the new "They're writing Slaanesh out the setting". You either believe it or you don't, irrespective of what GW say or do. Personally I can't see them scrapping basic marines if they're still selling, and we're talking a really long phase out period (2-4 editions) if new Primaris models are going to completely usurp the line.

I would expect old Marines to get phase out once Primaris start getting the saem options. Getting the Powerfist option is the first step towards that, but it will be a LOOOONNG time before Primaris get *all* the same or similar loadouts.

GW would need to do another reboot of the game for that to realistically happen. With CA being a thing, I think 8E is sticking around for a while, so old Marines will too.

What is more likely, is for the "meta" to phase out old Marines first, but only *if* Primaris options end up being more competitive (unlikely) and CA fails to correctly adjust points to make MEQs competitive.

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 Peregrine wrote:
Again, GW is not going to admit the death of a product line until they're ready to discontinue the kits. They want you buying old marines up until the final day.

This. I think a lot of people here don't understand the economics of most creative industries. I work as a designer, and it's typical for me to not have a say in the product requirements; that is the product manager or director's job. (Everyone has a job, and all creative works involve a long, multi-disciplinary process.)

Basically, it works like this:
1) Directors come up with a product strategy. This can be based on a variety of factors, including prior product strategy, but typically, it is a future-looking strategy that anticipates demand many years into the future.
2) Designers design new models to fit this product strategy.
3) GW invests tens of thousands of dollars to produce the plastic molds for the designs. These are fixed assets that depreciate over a period of time. In the US, the standard is 5 years.
4) Product operations occur, Rules team writes rules for the new models. Marketing/Community drive sales, etc.
5) Directors evaluate the performance of the product strategy every quarter, which helps inform step #1.
6) After a set amount of time, the molds are retired.

So really, the models we are looking at were planned maybe one or two years ago, in accordance with a strategy. This includes Primaris Marines, which may replace Space Marines entirely within a few years or so if they do not have a product strategy for Space Marines and renew the product line with a new set of molds. Furthermore, note that accountants and directors have more say over the models we have than the designers or marketers.

 Galef wrote:
I would expect old Marines to get phase out once Primaris start getting the saem options. Getting the Powerfist option is the first step towards that, but it will be a LOOOONNG time before Primaris get *all* the same or similar loadouts.

By this logic, the power swords on the Lieutenants and in the various upgrade frames should have meant the old Marines should be long gone.

What it more likely is a sign of is a new Marine Codex next year.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I would expect old Marines to get phase out once Primaris start getting the saem options. Getting the Powerfist option is the first step towards that, but it will be a LOOOONNG time before Primaris get *all* the same or similar loadouts.

By this logic, the power swords on the Lieutenants and in the various upgrade frames should have meant the old Marines should be long gone.

What it more likely is a sign of is a new Marine Codex next year.

Exactly. Until there is an upgrade for the Intercessor kit that has a Plasmagun, Meltagun, Flamer, Gravgun, Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter, and Lascannon, I wouldn't take the presence of one option as evidence of anything other than that option becoming available.

Intersessors need to have a bit more punch, but I do like that classic marines have a much more flexible feel. Hypothetically, having a single power fist and a single Hellblaster in each squad would improve things without invalidating classic marines.

Technically off topic, but I didn't want to start a new thread for just this. From the Primaris Facebook group, as reported, Emperor's Spears tactic is sixes causing two hits in the melee. As they don't seem to have an associated stratagem, I wonder if they can use Ultramarine stratagem as Ultra successors...

Audustum wrote:
Warhammer Community needs to get the previews rolling. The community is gonna eat itself alive at this rate.

I get the point of hyping a product, but in the case of Chapter Approved points changes, I can’t see what good it’s doing. You can’t hype people into buying points updates; the people who are going to buy the book for the updated points are going to buy it regardless, and the people who are going to just wait for the points to be posted online aren’t going to buy the points changes because of hype. By all means hype the other stuff in the book, but if anything, holding out on people with the points changes is doing more harm than good.

The 40k community seems to be holding its collective breath waiting for CA points changes. With no information, people are just speculating and wish-listing - as you said, eating itself alive. By not giving out any tidbits of points changes, GW is letting go of control of the hype, which means people are left to let their expectations bloom unchecked. Inevitably we’re all going to hype ourselves into expecting far more than CA can deliver, so the backlash is going to be savage. IMO, GW would be smarter to drip-feed us some of the points changes to help the community manage their expectations.