Switch Theme:

Poorly-named factions  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I've only just started noticing a proliferation of alien names no-one cares about or can easily remember. To clarify, I'm talking about weird made-up words in place of actual, memorable phrases, primarily for factions.

For example, I remember Space Marine Chapters. The Salamanders, the White Scars, the Iron Hands - these are actual names which evoke the appearance and nature of these groups. The same goes for Chaos Legions, Ork Clans, Sororitas Orders, Genestealer Cults, and Drukhari Kabals. Even Tyranid Hive Fleets at least use actual mythological names which somewhat relate to their modus operandi, and all the Astra Militarum regiments employ some combination of obvious reference or helpful subtitle; Krieg literally means "War", and comes with a suffix of "Death Corps". Valhallan is a Nordic afterlife, and appends "Ice Warriors". Catachan Jungle Fighters. Mordian Iron Guard. Armaggedon Steel Legion.

Then we get to T'au and Necrons, and I'm left to wonder: what exactly is a Bor'kan? Novokh, Nihilakh, Mephrit, and Sautekh may be perfectly good Sailor Moon villains, but I don't know why anyone would expect me to remember them or associate them with... whatever they each do. These don't have the Craftworld excuse of being grandfathered in, either; they were made up (or made relevant, I should say) pretty recently for the whole <Faction> conceit. T'au are especially aggravating, because they've been playing the subfaction game since their inception, and they did it right: everyone remembers the Farsight Enclaves, which have a straightforward, evocative name that manages to avoid using even a single apostrophe or made-up alien word. I kind of doubt that the O'Shovah Shan'al would roll off the tongue or stick in the mind in the same way.

T'au also get into this with their units, albeit mainly thanks to Forge World. Crisis Battlesuit? Cool. Broadside Battlesuit? Cool and informative. Stealth Battlesuit? Boring, but straightforward. Newer suits like the Ghostkeel and Riptide also follow this pattern. So how come I'm also being presented with R'varna, Ta'unar, and Y'vahra suits? Why have Shas'o R'alai and Shas'o R'myr joined the ranks of "Commander Shadowsun"? There's a reason the Dire Avengers aren't called Fian Dialcaman Squads. Daemons are guilty in some places; I don't know who thought it was a good idea to start naming characters things like Aetaos’rau’keres, but they seriously need to stop.

Eldar Craftworlds at least have some solid epithets that should really see more use: I wouldn't object in the least if Swordwind, Wild Host, Starstriders, and Ghost Warriors overtook Biel-Tan, Saim-Hann, Alaitoc, and Iyanden in common use. Are there any known translations or epithets for the made-up names of the T'au or Necron Factions? Are there any other names that could really do with a catchy English subtitle?
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






TL;DR: non-human factions dont follow human cultural conventions in naming.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Really if we want to talk about weird naming then we should be talking about Aeldari, Drukhari, T'au, Astra Militarum and all that rubbish.

I always thought Necrons were meant to sound Egyptian on account of how newcrons are just tomb kings.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in gb
Lethal Lhamean




Birmingham

Complaining that alien cultures are using alien names is truly dumb.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yes, how dare a fictional setting embrace fictional names for their fictional factions. The horror.
   
Made in us
Drone without a Controller




Okinawa

I guess the other extreme would be the Space Wolf, Canis Wolfborn, wielding wolf claws and riding his Thunderwolf into battle.

Also the fact that the Farsight Enclave is the most close combat oriented doesn't really fit the name=modus operandi scheme... but having the alien name and a moniker used by imperial troops to classify their opponents would be entertaining, fluff wise.

   
Made in gb
Sneaky Striking Scorpion





Midlands, UK

RevlidRas wrote:
Eldar Craftworlds at least have some solid epithets that should really see more use: I wouldn't object in the least if Swordwind, Wild Host, Starstriders, and Ghost Warriors overtook Biel-Tan, Saim-Hann, Alaitoc, and Iyanden in common use.

GW already fractured our Craftworld, don't try to take our name away too.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Swordwind, Wild Host, Starstriders, and Ghost Warriors are warhosts, not craftworlds. Every Craftworld can produce Ghost Warriors or Swordwind.
   
Made in es
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets




Vigo. Spain.

Tyranids names are 100% imperial both the fleets and the units.


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Atlanta

I actually agree with OP. I have a hard time embracing the “alien” factions because of their naming schemes just don’t stick in my mind. The only xenos I play is nids and he’s right, the hive fleets have human terms.
   
Made in us
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation





Kansas, United States

Crazy Jay wrote:
I actually agree with OP. I have a hard time embracing the “alien” factions because of their naming schemes just don’t stick in my mind. The only xenos I play is nids and he’s right, the hive fleets have human terms.


That's because no one has ever talked to a Hive Fleet and gotten what it calls itself.

Imperium: "Say, what do you call yourselves?"
Hive Fleet: -devours-
Imperium 2: Let's just call them "Leviathan" or something, yeah?
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

Honestly, the only faction I struggle with in this regard is Necrons. I must have looked at Nephrekh and Nihilakh dozens of time but I still couldn't tell you which was which without a codex in front of me..

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in ca
Trustworthy Shas'vre






Tau unit names are mostly Imperial 'nicknames' for Tau units, the alien sounding ones are the actual tau names for those things, generally because they're uncommon enough that the Imperium doesn't have common names for them.

   
Made in gb
Space Marine Scout with Sniper Rifle




Cambridge, UK

Couldn't disagree with the OP more. Another pile of adjective noun verb names is the last thing this game needs. Jesus, it was one of the first things that made me sick in my mouth when AoS dropped.

If anything I would say GW struggles now with coming up with interesting or genuinely innovative names. Fyreslayers? Really...
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Wolf lord of the wolf on a wolf with two wolves wearing a wolftooth necklace wulfenstone with a wolf claw and the fangsword of the deathwolf.

Never forget.

(This was the wolfiest fieldable character for space wolves in 7th edition)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/01 23:57:55


 
   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior




Sacratomato

I think many are missing the OP's point....

It's a game for humans.....naming something that doesn't stick in any way is stupid for a gaming company....

"Hey Billy, what's that thing called?"....."It's a T'au R'varna with Shas'o Av'cado of the Bordorken Seepage clan or tribe er something.....I just call it Neil and Bob because that's what it does."

Being realistic with naming conventions follows political correctness in the, "Dumbass ideas for $800 Alex"

70% of all statistics are made up on the spot by 64% of the people that produce false statistics 54% of the time that they produce them. 
   
Made in au
Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk





And then you have orks who are potentially the most literal minded race in their naming conventions.

"Do dey shoot? Den dey are shootaz."

"Do dey nick stuff? Den dey are Lootaz."

"I'm da boss? Da boss of WAR! WARBOSS!"

Bless orks.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 Da-Rock wrote:
I think many are missing the OP's point....

It's a game for humans.....naming something that doesn't stick in any way is stupid for a gaming company....

"Hey Billy, what's that thing called?"....."It's a T'au R'varna with Shas'o Av'cado of the Bordorken Seepage clan or tribe er something.....I just call it Neil and Bob because that's what it does."

Being realistic with naming conventions follows political correctness in the, "Dumbass ideas for $800 Alex"

Which is the equivalent of saying Sauron from the Lord of the Rings should have been named Bob...

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 Ghaz wrote:
 Da-Rock wrote:
I think many are missing the OP's point....

It's a game for humans.....naming something that doesn't stick in any way is stupid for a gaming company....

"Hey Billy, what's that thing called?"....."It's a T'au R'varna with Shas'o Av'cado of the Bordorken Seepage clan or tribe er something.....I just call it Neil and Bob because that's what it does."

Being realistic with naming conventions follows political correctness in the, "Dumbass ideas for $800 Alex"

Which is the equivalent of saying Sauron from the Lord of the Rings should have been named Bob...
Well LotR was not designed with a playable wargame in mind. Having names which are reasonably understandable is a plus, but at the same time having alien names adds more flavor. There is a balance to be struck, no doubt. Even adding a bit of title can go a long way "Hipthk'An, the Bronze Legion" gets the best of both worlds, though obviously that can go awry as well.

But I'll take anything over "Deadwalkers" (for 40k folks, that is what they named the zombie subfaction in AoS).

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in de
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade




I'm okay with Eldar, Tau and Necrons having truly alien names and not just some kind of latin or english. If you ask me it makes more sense to have aliens with alien names than viking werewolfs in a setting 38000 years from now, but of course I'm aware that 40K is more of a parody of Sci-Fi tropes than anything else.
I'll take a a Bor'kan XV88 over a Sloppity Bilepiper. And in both cases I wouldn't know what it actually is without background knowledge.
I grew up as a Trekki, so I'm familiar with Klingons from Qo'nos in their B'rel class, lead by a Dahar-Master on their way to Sto'vo'kor believing in Kah'less and calling you a p'tah. And you know what? That's awesome! It's what gives an alien vibe to fictional cultures. It's what makes the elves from lotr interesting and gives them a culture. Same with Tau and Klingons.

40K more often than not suffers from being told from imperial perspective alone. 90% of Black library books are from an imperial perspective (my guess), the rulebook talks mainly about the imperium. So I like it when they bring in these little notions to make the other races stand out and give them personality. Orks and Tyranids lack that personality a bit - but that's because they're more NPC races to be shot down. We can't say in our language how tyranids call themselves, they don't speak and won't let us know. And Orks are influenced by humanity so much they invented a similar language (that's my head canon probably, but why would they have english titles for their clans?).
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Removed, Rule #1 please - BrookM

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/02 16:13:03


15k+ :Harlequin: 4k
12k+ SOLD (to many armies)
5k
Beastmen 6500

Reading/Writing LD, be kind!

https://maddpaint.blogspot.com 
   
Made in au
Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk





And Orks are influenced by humanity so much they invented a similar language (that's my head canon probably, but why would they have english titles for their clans?).


Oh orks have their own language. You can hear it being spoken at length at the start of the Ork audrio drama "Prophets of the Waaagh!!!" I think what we often hear/read is the best orky translation.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Sleep Spell wrote:
I guess the other extreme would be the Space Wolf, Canis Wolfborn, wielding wolf claws and riding his Thunderwolf into battle.

Also the fact that the Farsight Enclave is the most close combat oriented doesn't really fit the name=modus operandi scheme... but having the alien name and a moniker used by imperial troops to classify their opponents would be entertaining, fluff wise.



for a bit but it'd quickly get annoying ahveing to generate two names, etc. Battletech initally did this for the clans but abandoned it pretty quick after TRO 3050

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




Why i can understand, I think this is just debating to remove the flaver of the setting.

When it comes down to it, Space Wolves tell me as much as Biel-tan does.

Its really no difernt from players having to learn D&D names and terms for the first time. When all they have play is 40k.
Or even learning a second language.

Like, if someone had asked me what a ravenwing Darkshoud was before today. I would probably say its a dark angels thing. But the words are meaningless without other info i know.

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





cody.d. wrote:
And then you have orks who are potentially the most literal minded race in their naming conventions.

"Do dey shoot? Den dey are shootaz."

"Do dey nick stuff? Den dey are Lootaz."

"I'm da boss? Da boss of WAR! WARBOSS!"

Bless orks.


Though somewhat lost the plot with the new buggies? ‘Boomdakka Snazzwagon’? Really?
   
Made in us
Ship's Officer





LA

Only one that irks me much is Drukari or whatever name they gave the dark eldar. I liked Eldar, has a nice ring to it, simple...evokes a certain vibe. But then GW got all goofy with it and came up with aeldari drukari and whatever else.

 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Moriarty wrote:
Though somewhat lost the plot with the new buggies? ‘Boomdakka Snazzwagon’? Really?
GW have definitely had one word too many on a lot of new units. The "sloppity bilepiper" being perhaps the worst.
Sometimes they don't seem to be able to find a good middle ground between "horticulous slimux" and the bloodmaster, bloodcrusher, skullmaster, skulltaker, bloodletter, bloodthirster, blood slaughterer, skullcannon, lord of skulls, tower of skulls, and herald... on a bloodthrone.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I'm okay with Eldar, Tau and Necrons having truly alien names and not just some kind of latin or english. If you ask me it makes more sense to have aliens with alien names than viking werewolfs in a setting 38000 years from now, but of course I'm aware that 40K is more of a parody of Sci-Fi tropes than anything else.
I'll take a a Bor'kan XV88 over a Sloppity Bilepiper. And in both cases I wouldn't know what it actually is without background knowledge.
I grew up as a Trekki, so I'm familiar with Klingons from Qo'nos in their B'rel class, lead by a Dahar-Master on their way to Sto'vo'kor believing in Kah'less and calling you a p'tah. And you know what? That's awesome! It's what gives an alien vibe to fictional cultures. It's what makes the elves from lotr interesting and gives them a culture. Same with Tau and Klingons.

Here's the thing you and a bunch of other posters seem to be missing:

Commander Farsight's name is actually Shas'O Vior'la Shovah Kais Mont'yr. The Space Wolves are actually the Vlka Fenryka. The Swooping Hawks are actually called the Fian Siispeiraigh. The Evil Sunz are actually called the Uz-Baad. Bloodletters are actually called Khak'akamshy'y. The Skitarii are actually called the 01110011 01101011 01101001 01110100 01100001 01110010 01101001 01101001. And I don't want to take those names away!

But we call them Commander Farsight, the Space Wolves, Swooping Hawks, the Evil Sunz, Bloodletters, and the Skitarii, the last of which is the least comprehensible but is at least clearly pseudo-Latin of the sort we're familiar with.

This is good for the game, because it means I don't need to take a correspondence course or master a glottal click to describe the troops in my army. It makes those troops, and the characters involved, far more evocative. And it also, in direct contrast to what you're saying, helps me understand the mindset of alien races far more: if I'm told that a character's is Shas'o No'Sho Pron'To, I zone out and learn nothing. If I'm told that his name is Commander Swiftflight, a partly mocking name that refers to his quick retreats, I know exactly what his culture thinks of him and how they express it.

Even non-Ork or non-Tyranid players can take a decent shot at remembering some Hive Fleets or Ork Clans, because those stick in the mind. I guarantee you, anyone who doesn't play T'au or Necrons cannot remember their Factions, much less the iteration numbers T'au started adding to the front of every vehicle and battlesuit. Broadside Battlesuit vs XV107 R'varna Monat - you decide which is better for the game.

Anyone remember who the Necron gods are? Deceiver, Nightbringer, and hey, maybe you remember the Void Dragon and Outsider too, even though they never got models. Anyone remember the Necron name for the Nightbringer, off the top of their head? No? Lexicanum is cheating, don't think I can't see you typing it into Google! I thought not.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/02 09:08:25


 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




This may just be a place where people understand, but disagree with you.

I do not think its good for the game, So many of the English names just bleed into each other as is. Or the more simple.

It depends on the name in its context and your understanding off it.
But i mean you bring up the eldar craftworlds in your opening post, and i would completly disagree with you about them taking over in such way.
The same way, I not sure i want to see a space marine named Jack since most english players will be able to say it and remember it.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Agile Revenant Titan





London, UK

RevlidRas wrote:


Eldar Craftworlds at least have some solid epithets that should really see more use: I wouldn't object in the least if Swordwind, Wild Host, Starstriders, and Ghost Warriors overtook Biel-Tan, Saim-Hann, Alaitoc, and Iyanden in common use. Are there any known translations or epithets for the made-up names of the T'au or Necron Factions? Are there any other names that could really do with a catchy English subtitle?


If you actually bothered to do a bit of research, the majority of Eldar Craftworld names stem from Irish (Gaeilge) and other Celtic derivatives which genre ripped for Elvish and in turn was put into 40k. Biel-Tan, Saim-hann, Lugganath all stem from Celtic festivals and you have other Craftworlds like Ibraesil named after a mythological island of the coast of Ireland. So they aren't just invented to sound quirky.

I could go on but you get the picture, they're meant to be alien sounding as they are from alien cultures.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/02 08:13:32


5000 Fir Farillecassion Eldar W/L/D 4th Ed Codex - 14/7/1 6th Ed Codex - 9/1/0 7th Ed Codex - 4/1/1 8th Ed Codex - 10/4/2
2000 Hive Fleet Zenith
Excavating eBay: My blog of eBay finds and the pile of shame!
Instagram, follow if you dare!
 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: