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I can't wait to try out Infiltrators and concealed positions.
Melee Wolves have needed to get threats in the opponent's face to take pressure off the heavy hitters and our Scouts suck. So I'm looking forward to pressing it with a troop choice.

Infiltrators seem a bit overpriced to me for what they bring. +5ppm over Intercessors is a hefty premium for a downgraded gun and some situational bonuses.

Intercessors ended up coming down to 17 ppm eventually which makes them solid. In Infiltrators came down 3 to 19ppm I would take a second look at them (particularly if they get a few extra weapon options). As it stands, I think will pass them by for the moment.

 Karhedron wrote:
Infiltrators seem a bit overpriced to me for what they bring. +5ppm over Intercessors is a hefty premium for a downgraded gun and some situational bonuses.

Intercessors ended up coming down to 17 ppm eventually which makes them solid. In Infiltrators came down 3 to 19ppm I would take a second look at them (particularly if they get a few extra weapon options). As it stands, I think will pass them by for the moment.

Heh, overpriced kind of describes most of our army.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
Infiltrators seem a bit overpriced to me for what they bring. +5ppm over Intercessors is a hefty premium for a downgraded gun and some situational bonuses.

Intercessors ended up coming down to 17 ppm eventually which makes them solid. In Infiltrators came down 3 to 19ppm I would take a second look at them (particularly if they get a few extra weapon options). As it stands, I think will pass them by for the moment.

Heh, overpriced kind of describes most of our army.

Except maybe Wuflens only.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
Infiltrators seem a bit overpriced to me for what they bring. +5ppm over Intercessors is a hefty premium for a downgraded gun and some situational bonuses.

Intercessors ended up coming down to 17 ppm eventually which makes them solid. In Infiltrators came down 3 to 19ppm I would take a second look at them (particularly if they get a few extra weapon options). As it stands, I think will pass them by for the moment.

Heh, overpriced kind of describes most of our army.

Except maybe Wuflens only.

Wulfen are actually pretty decently priced, especially the TH/SS loadout, that's why they're about the only Space Wolves unit that really sees use outside Space Wolf lists.
Best list I've had so far is a Battalion with Troops tax, Leader Tax, Wulfen and Long Fangs.
Teamed with a minimal-ish Battalion of Scions.
Anything I thought could threaten the Wulfen got shot by Long Fangs then the Scions dropped on the remains of the battlefield and nabbed objectives. Ynari flyer spam on an open battlefield kind of ended my fun. Destroyed the Long Fangs on the first turn, Wulfen on the second and everything else by the fourth.

I played SW in 5th and 6th edition. I always thought GH and Long Fangs as very fluffy. But those where the cheap units in that codex as opposed to every other units that was priced in then fair to exspensive place.

 Karhedron wrote:
Infiltrators seem a bit overpriced to me for what they bring. +5ppm over Intercessors is a hefty premium for a downgraded gun and some situational bonuses.

Intercessors ended up coming down to 17 ppm eventually which makes them solid. In Infiltrators came down 3 to 19ppm I would take a second look at them (particularly if they get a few extra weapon options). As it stands, I think will pass them by for the moment.

Yes, they should become chaeper. But at 22 ppm I still consider a squad. My smash wolf lord can be very killy but gets islolated very quickly. Another 10 wounds midfield that help keep him alive is worth a few points extra, especially when they are also troops. And some armies will really hate to have to keep their DS 12" away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What's your thoughts on the new FAQ?

Castellans got more expensive, no more 3++ for knights and Eldar psychic powers now only affect Asuryani. So the top of the pile got nerfed a bit.

The change to fly made our smash lords a bit better.

Nothing else really interesting. I'm a bit disappointed that we didn't get points changes for the Codexes left out in last CHapter Approved. IIRC, last Spring FAQ hat points adjustments. Guess we have to wait until December then.

I don't know what I expected for SW, maybe a few points adjustments or... I dunno, something impactful? Glad IK got nerfed, they were EVERYWHERE, and it was an issue. I still think our warlord traits are too lackluster to really care much about. I feel like our book was made with lore and narrative play in mind, which dont get me wrong, I love both of those things, but I also like to bring my wolves out to pick up games and have a decent shot.

Is there a rule that says units must use all their attacks or shots?

Let's hope the next Primarch is Russ, and as a force multiplier he kicks the SW up a gear.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Is there a rule that says units must use all their attacks or shots?

No, why?
I don't know when, but is was clarified somewhere. Some people claimed you had to fire your Castellan Missiles T1 or in overwatch until it got officially FAQed.

If its a weapon that is use and lose like hk missiles you can choose when to fire it. Otherwise you must always fire and attack in cc with all avalible weapons. This has come up before with harliquens for example, the shadowseer can get up to -3 to hit and using the relic suit of hidden knives any attack rolls of 1,2,3, or 4 that target the chr bounce back as a mortal wound on a 2+. For a lot of forces that means the enemy doesnt want to swing, but they have no choice. The only thing you can choose to do is not pile in to lower the number of attacks your putting out, but you must attack with all avalible weapons if you can.

Has anyone used suppressor squads yet? They seem like a good fit for Space Wolves to negate OverWatch and to provide some light vehicle shooting. We could also use Keen senses on them to ignore the negative o to shooting if they move.

I have some but haven't tried them yet. Unfortunately i run my wolves very shooty, i only go cc when i need to finish something off. I havent tried a serious cc force since the codexes release.

Jimbobbyish wrote:
Has anyone used suppressor squads yet? They seem like a good fit for Space Wolves to negate OverWatch and to provide some light vehicle shooting. We could also use Keen senses on them to ignore the negative o to shooting if they move.

I run two squads of them, when they have optional numbers they will be a tad better.
Three is just a bad number for them, enough to guarantee a death in one squad and take a lucky plug at another and not enough to really threaten any vehicle bigger than a Land Speeder so I wind up focus firing with both or divvying between the two units quite a bit. Units of four would be better.



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Azuza001 wrote:
If its a weapon that is use and lose like hk missiles you can choose when to fire it. Otherwise you must always fire and attack in cc with all avalible weapons. This has come up before with harliquens for example, the shadowseer can get up to -3 to hit and using the relic suit of hidden knives any attack rolls of 1,2,3, or 4 that target the chr bounce back as a mortal wound on a 2+. For a lot of forces that means the enemy doesnt want to swing, but they have no choice. The only thing you can choose to do is not pile in to lower the number of attacks your putting out, but you must attack with all avalible weapons if you can.

All available weapons - does that mean we can lower the power by attacking with base strength even with a fully kitted model?

Yes it actually does, if your model has 5 attacks on its profile it has to make 5 attacks, but you can choose to use base fist weapons that all models have instead of using a more powerful weapon like a power fist. As long as you make 5 attacks your fine in this example.

Looking at better ways of hiding in combat.
The Wolves got short Changed but my Nids are loving this edition, I want to find a way of making the Wolves a hitty army again and the Infiltrators and Suppressors have given me useful (if a bit costly) tools.

There isn't any good ways to hide in combat anymore since the enemy can easily walk out of it now days. You have to be hitting multiple things at once, tying multiple things up so that a good portion of the enemy army is caught up in cc and unable to shoot at you when the rest fall back.

Don't we all wish Fen Wolves were costed usably or troops choices.

So i ran the following at a local tournament this last weekend, 2200 pt anniversary special event. Went 2 and 0 so far (next 2 games are coming up this weekend).



I am running 2 batallions and an auxiliary for my assassin since i only own the 1 and it seemed silly to pay 2cp when i knew which one i was going to take.

I used the predators / killshot / njal to cover them to great effect. We played chapter approved missions, 1st game was vs blood angels and the 2nd was vs deathguard.

Vs blood angels he went 1st but i deployed so far back he simply couldn't get to me t1 for a charge. He kept his smash team and black rage guys in deep strike, moved a land raider onto 1 objective and 2 black rage dreads up. My 1st turn i moved the long fangs out from behind los and popped the strats to hit with no modifiers and reroll wounds and dropped land raider to 6 wounds. I then used killshot to kill both dreads and deny him an objective.

T2 he deep struck in.... and rolled horribly. He failed 3d6 charge with reroll from his death company (started at 10 guys, used the rune priest poking a tank to shoot at them when they landed and killed 5,) he ended up getting dante into cc with the tank but between all my chrs and my own troops in the area he killed one pred then the entire force got lit up. After that i just had too much board contol, too much plasma, and too big a point lead for him to catch up and win.


2nd game vs deathguard was even more brutal. I got first turn and unloaded on him. He had 3 of the bloat drones, 3 of the small multi melta / missile launcher guys, 2 of the big mortar tanks, 90 pox walkers, the rest chrs. I unleashed all my firepower and did 8 wounds to 1 of the mortar tanks and killed one of the drones.

But my saving grace was his own deployment. How he deployed his stuff his pox walkers ended up blocking his movement and he only went 6" forward with his stuff. After his shooting he did 1 wound to a pred and killed one grey hunter.... between in cover,-1 to hit on the tanks and the storm shield soaking up 3 hits from the secondary guns of the mortar tanks on top of bad positioning of his pox walkers he did nothing.

My turn 2 i dropped the scouts, krom, and 1 pack of 10 hunters on his flank and killed the second drone, fired the killshot preds on the 2nd drone and damaged mortar tank and killed them, put 6 wounds onto the other mortar tank from the long fangs, put 4 wounds onto one of the melta/missile crawlers, and killed 18 pox walkers. And with his vehicles exploding i also 2 mortal wounds to 1 dp and 3 to another.

His turn he tried and moved his melta/missiles into range of the preds, moved his deamon princes back to get to krom and crew, and continued to shamble his walkers forward. After the smoke cleared i lost 5 of the 6 scouts, 4 marines from the bunch with krom, and the dmged pred survived with 1 wound left! And i had 1 cp left!

This turn i killed all 3 of the melta missile bikes and the last mortar tank. I had my assassin killing a chaos lord who was next to the mortar tanks for reroll 1's, 1 dp was at half life and the other was at 5 wounds taken (never underestimated the power of an angry pack of grey hunters) , and somewhere in the 50's for number of pox walkers surrounding typhus and some chrs to boost the walkers. I had lost 5 scouts and a total of 8 grey hunters..... so we called it since i had total board control and he had no shooting left in his force with about 18" between his walkers and my gunline.


So yeah, i got lucky a few times but in the end gun wolves outflanking and killshot preads (if you can protect them heavily) are incredibly powerful. Next week i expect to fight a pure guard army with a baneblade so the preds probably wont work as well in the next few rounds but we will see!

Nice work.
2200 is a bit of an odd number, good to see twin battalion Space Wolves though.

22nd anniversary of the flgs being open, hence the odd number

Good number then.
Clever.
What do you find more useful, Predators or Long Fangs?

Its an interesting situation there. Predarors have more firepower (because 3 of them) and were a hell of a lot more destructive. But the preds took a lot more work and more cp to keep running.

Njal for the storm caller, 3cp for -1 to hit, and 1cp for killshot, plus a possible 2cp for cover t1 if you dont go first.

Long fangs however are more self reliant. They can easily hide out of los t1 then pop up. They need 1cp to move and shoot and 1cp to reroll failed wounds. Once in position they just need the 1 cp each turn.

I built this list around the preds when the codex first came out. Still works great. But preds have to be built around. Long fangs will fit perfect into any list with the points to spare. So i give the nod to the long fangs even though in my list the preds do most the work.

Returning player here, haven't picked up a model since 5th edition (and by the Allfather, how things have changed).

How good are troops now? I've heard Primaris are the new FOTM, but I have 20 GH/BC to finish gluing first. Should I field 5 man squads, or 10/15 man? What's the current thinking on special weapons in squads--are meltaguns still in fashion for basic grunts, or is plasma now the way to go? On the melee side, are frost swords, wolf claws, and power fists as good as ever?

Welcome back to the pack Teln.

Primaris are the new kids on the block and have some shiny toys but they are certainly not the only way to play. I have 2 packs of Primaris to supplement my oldschool Wolves (1 pack of Hellblasters and 2 of Intercessors from Dark Imperium) and they do well but they are not essential.

Grey Hunters are still our go-to Troop unit IMHO. Twice the number of attacks as regular Tactical Marines and they can double-down on Special weapons. They are solid and reliable and I never leave home without at least 3 packs of them. Plasma is pretty much the best special weapon available and Hunters can take a 10-man pack (9 Hunters and 1 wolf guard) with 2 plasma guns, a plasma pistol on the GH Pack Leader and a combi-plas on the Wolf Guard. I couple of packs like this are great for firefighting at mid-range and can close up to chop the enemy quite efficiently if needed.

Small packs with melta guns can work too but really need transport. I normally run 2 small packs with melta guns and a combi-melta/powerfist Wolf Guard in Razorbacks with assault cannons.

Sadly Blood Claws are a bit lacklustre in 8th edition. While they hit fairly hard, they need a Transport to get them where they are going and a leader like a Wolf Lord or Wolf Priest to reroll attacks to get the value out of them. This makes them expensive for what they deliver and your characters are better off buffing more offensive units like Wulfen (Priest) or Hellblasters (Wolf Lord).

Our special melee weapons are sadly overpriced in this edition. Basic power fists are great for wolves though as they came down to 9 points each in Chapter Approved 2018 and our +1 to-hit from our Chapter Trait negates the -1 to-hit penalty from the weapon. I tend to put power fists on pack leaders if possible and Thunder Hammers on Characters to leverage the extra attacks.

Wulfen are good but need to be used well. Thunderwolf Cavalry are over-priced and underkilly. Not worthwhile unless you really love the models IMHO.

Our specialist Dreadnoughts are really great. The ability to take either Venerable or Wulfen Dreads with a shield for a 4+ Invulnerable save is really strong. 2 of these guys make a really fitting bodyguard for Bjorn who rocks in 8th edition.

I do min sized GHs with Plasma because I have lots of them. They are slowly being phased out by intercessors and infiltrators though. Meltas and flamers are junk.

Frost weapons and wolf claws are way overpriced, fists and hammers are the way to go with SWs

Long Fangs and th/ss wulfen are the best SW specific units.

So I was at a tournament this past weekend, sadly playing a different army but there was a wolves player there. He caused me to question myself as I haven’t caught up on all the new stuff because I’m focused on finishing a different army before revisiting my wolves.

He was talking about the new rune priest or a commander that allows Wulen to move further? Giving them a really large threat range or something? Is this accurate or did he have a rule wrong?

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
So I was at a tournament this past weekend, sadly playing a different army but there was a wolves player there. He caused me to question myself as I haven’t caught up on all the new stuff because I’m focused on finishing a different army before revisiting my wolves.

He was talking about the new rune priest or a commander that allows Wulen to move further? Giving them a really large threat range or something? Is this accurate or did he have a rule wrong?

The new Phobes Rune Priest?

That one has a psychic power to let somebody move again, BUT that unit must be in Phobes Armor, So it do nothing to wulfen.

Azuza001 wrote:
There isn't any good ways to hide in combat anymore since the enemy can easily walk out of it now days. You have to be hitting multiple things at once, tying multiple things up so that a good portion of the enemy army is caught up in cc and unable to shoot at you when the rest fall back.

Tripoint is good tool. Albeit wolves suffer from being small. But bigger units(tyranids, orks, daemons etc) will 3 point model from unit they did not declare charge=cannot fall back unless it's fly.

If you are facing all fly army though yeah it doesn't work.

But say IG? You can 3 point one squad preventing fall back and your squad is 100% immune to shooting(well except pistols)