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Ok, these forums have literally reached the point where you literally cannot talk about a new space marine release without it getting hijacked by the useal suspects whining that "their army didn't get a release"
seriously I create a thread to speculate and talk about the new space wolves unit released, and in less then 24 hours it's 4 pages and counting of mostly people screaming "HOW DARE AN ARMY THATS NOT MINE GET A NEW DATASHEET!" seriously, it's an absurdly hostile atmosphere, what, if anything are the mods intending to do about it, or is thread hijacking to bash factions considered acceptable behavior? it;'s the same half dozen people on every thread and it's getting annoying

What the mods do about it depends on whether or not they see it. Looks like the thread went off topic almost immediately, on page 1. Did you report it then?

If we don't see it, there's not much we can do about it.

As soon as I saw it I put a general warning in the thread, I also updated the title to better reflect what the thread was about.

But what are you as the mods doing about the behaviour of these certain members? It's all well and good talking about warnings, but they evidently do not work.

I've stopped posting almost fully on here due to such behaviour.

When certain members make a topic difficult to discuss, ban that topic. That’ll show ‘em.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
But what are you as the mods doing about the behaviour of these certain members? It's all well and good talking about warnings, but they evidently do not work.

Warnings do work in most cases, and several posters who refused to change their behavior have been removed from the site.

As always, though, a lot of it relies on people reporting issues as they happen, rather than engaging with off topic discussion. Fixing an issue with one post works much better than trying to do so after 5 pages of back and forth.

 insaniak wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
But what are you as the mods doing about the behaviour of these certain members? It's all well and good talking about warnings, but they evidently do not work.

Warnings do work in most cases, and several posters who refused to change their behavior have been removed from the site.

As always, though, a lot of it relies on people reporting issues as they happen, rather than engaging with off topic discussion. Fixing an issue with one post works much better than trying to do so after 5 pages of back and forth.

Sorry, but this is clearly not the case. It is nearly at the point of disbelief that a certain handful of argumentative and highly rude posters are still active members on the site, for reasons only known by the mod team I presume as I have had numerous conversations in the past 12 months with other members of the site about the actions of certain posters. I have reported these members numerous times and nothing evident happens, and they still are allowed to be active members, so no, from my POV and that of quite an amount of other posters, warning do not work.

I'm not going to make assumptions as to why, but you have a core amount of problem posters still, and in some cases the same posters have been problem posters for the best part of a decade....

To be clear, there is a process, and this process has resulted in some posters changing problematic behaviour, and others being removed from the site. It's an ongoing process, though, as and when it becomes necessary and appropriate.

That may well mean that there are posters you feel should have been dealt with in this manner who haven't been. That may also just be because we don't see those particular individuals as as much of an issue as you do.

Bear in mind that personality conflicts can somewhat tint your perception of other posters, and so posts that you take exception to, we may not read the same way.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
But what are you as the mods doing about the behaviour of these certain members? It's all well and good talking about warnings, but they evidently do not work.

I've stopped posting almost fully on here due to such behaviour.

Same here, since the foaming toxicity towards the thing the board is nominally about has been out of control for a very long time. I hang out a bit in Other Media and Video Games, but for actually talking about 40K (rather than chimp-like whooping and shrieking about how much I hate GW), this forum is a lost cause.

 insaniak wrote:

Bear in mind that personality conflicts can somewhat tint your perception of other posters, and so posts that you take exception to, we may not read the same way.

I've encountered this before in moderating on other sites. Someone reports something, often with no mention in the report as to why its being reported. To them there's something wrong, yet a mod reading it might well not see it the same way. This can often happen when one person has a personal issue with another user or has noticed another user using repeated patterns of negative behaviour or doing actions which results in a negative result. Without the context of the back-history and details the mods can only see what is right infront of them.
In those cases if, like the OP of this thread identifies - its "the same halfdozen people doing it all the time" then you have to present that case to the staff. Show the staff the multiple threads, the instances and examples. Basically make your case. Simply saying "its the same users doing this everywhere" doesn't help because often as not you are looking at certain threads and the mods might look at totally different ones. You might also be falsely seeing a pattern which you think is happening, but which when looked at more formally, isn't actually there.


Sometimes someone isn't doing anything wrong, but it results in a situation people don't like. So there's nothing really for a mod to punish or resolve. There's no rule breach or social insults or such. It's just someone doing something they are allowed to do. Many times its not actually them which causes the issue, its the result of others picking up on that comment and running with it. Which tends to result in the "issue" being more at the group than the individual level. This can be very very hard to resolve and often can only be done by a general attitude change. This can sometimes be promoted by the site staff/mods - sometimes it can only be encouraged away from.

At some point the community also has to take responsibility for itself. People who are sick of "insert subject/topic" sometimes have to pause and realise that they have to create the new topics in subjects that they want and perhaps even guide the thread somewhat to ensure it goes the way they desire/are most interested in. This can take work and effort and its often the reason people don't even try it. Which results in them getting less and less out of the site than they want.



In my experiences when I get less out of a community than I want its often when I'm actually less involved with the community; or the involvement is in a more passive direction than active creation/promotion of my interests. It's a self-filling cycle whereby less results in less reward which results in less interaction which results in less reward - repeat and you find yourself losing touch and left out/moving on.

 Elemental wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
But what are you as the mods doing about the behaviour of these certain members? It's all well and good talking about warnings, but they evidently do not work.

I've stopped posting almost fully on here due to such behaviour.

Same here, since the foaming toxicity towards the thing the board is nominally about has been out of control for a very long time. I hang out a bit in Other Media and Video Games, but for actually talking about 40K (rather than chimp-like whooping and shrieking about how much I hate GW), this forum is a lost cause.

More or less where I’ve been at? I try to keep up on a few News & Rumors topics to see upcoming stuff, keep P&M blogs updated for image hosting, and browse Other Media. I’ve stopped trying to keep up on discussions because it feels like it’s just pages of complaining and fighting over how OP or worthless something is. Straight up impossible to have any casual space marine discussion.

I wonder if a section for open/narrative play for 40K might be worth considering. Somewhere where threads might operate without the automatic assumption that mathmatical perfection is not the primary goal of every army discussion. Not just marines. Something that sets itself away from competitive only discussion.

 Overread wrote:
I wonder if a section for open/narrative play for 40K might be worth considering. Somewhere where threads might operate without the automatic assumption that mathmatical perfection is not the primary goal of every army discussion. Not just marines. Something that sets itself away from competitive only discussion.

You'd invariably end up with more gate keeping on what is the perfect list for narrative or open play or a myriad of other topics. As far as I can see, the OP has a responsibility for keeping things on track and not rising to or simply ignoring the usual culprits.

I recently had a guy throw some stupid snark into a thread I made, so i understand how you might feel when someone basically comes into your threads just to crap in them.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
You'd invariably end up with more gate keeping on what is the perfect list for narrative or open play or a myriad of other topics. As far as I can see, the OP has a responsibility for keeping things on track and not rising to or simply ignoring the usual culprits.

For what it's worth I think the Hounds speculation thread is a good example of how that plan goes wrong. The first person to whine about space marines is immediately joined by another, and another, all recycling the same arguments, all responding with the same tired rejoinders when people point out they're going off-topic, either ignoring or actively mocking the OP when he tells them to stop - perfectly content to squat in the thread, agreeing with each other.

Even when the mods issue a warning it doesn't actually change the behaviour, they just leave the thread and complain somewhere else, or come back a page or two later to complain about the rules are mediocre (therefore bad) and that space marines get too much attention, and so on, starting the process all over again.

Report the posts you think break the rules, explain why you think the rules are being broken.

But people disagreeing with you or your points is not something that needs to be punished or discouraged.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Report the posts you think break the rules, explain why you think the rules are being broken.

But people disagreeing with you or your points is not something that needs to be punished or discouraged.

Pretending that it's as simple as "disagreeing" is a bit disingenuous. There are posters who do not contribute to threads beyond trying to "get" someone with a caveat.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Report the posts you think break the rules, explain why you think the rules are being broken.

But people disagreeing with you or your points is not something that needs to be punished or discouraged.

Pretending that it's as simple as "disagreeing" is a bit disingenuous. There are posters who do not contribute to threads beyond trying to "get" someone with a caveat.

this, when literally all someone does is post how aweful the think a game is, one would think there comes a point where you have to ask "is this person trolling?"

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I wonder if a section for open/narrative play for 40K might be worth considering. Somewhere where threads might operate without the automatic assumption that mathmatical perfection is not the primary goal of every army discussion. Not just marines. Something that sets itself away from competitive only discussion.

You'd invariably end up with more gate keeping on what is the perfect list for narrative or open play or a myriad of other topics. As far as I can see, the OP has a responsibility for keeping things on track and not rising to or simply ignoring the usual culprits.

A poster has no ability to 'keep things on track,' being the OP doesn't provide any ability to do so.

Trying just gets responses that they aren't a mod and can't tell people what to do.
And the mod advice is to report and not engage, which definitely means the responsibility doesn't lie on the OP.

I DO think a "crusade" subforum might be nice though. although it'd exist for 5 seconds before the useal suspects came in and said how aweful crusade was because "look at how I can abuse it"

BrianDavion wrote:
Ok, these forums have literally reached the point where you literally cannot talk about a new space marine release without it getting hijacked by the useal suspects whining that "their army didn't get a release"
seriously I create a thread to speculate and talk about the new space wolves unit released, and in less then 24 hours it's 4 pages and counting of mostly people screaming "HOW DARE AN ARMY THATS NOT MINE GET A NEW DATASHEET!" seriously, it's an absurdly hostile atmosphere, what, if anything are the mods intending to do about it, or is thread hijacking to bash factions considered acceptable behavior? it;'s the same half dozen people on every thread and it's getting annoying

Well. It would be helpful if you wouldn't hijack threads yourself as well don't you think At least here it's common sense you don't complain about something if you do the same thing yourself. Maybe in your culture it's different though?

Voss wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I wonder if a section for open/narrative play for 40K might be worth considering. Somewhere where threads might operate without the automatic assumption that mathmatical perfection is not the primary goal of every army discussion. Not just marines. Something that sets itself away from competitive only discussion.

You'd invariably end up with more gate keeping on what is the perfect list for narrative or open play or a myriad of other topics. As far as I can see, the OP has a responsibility for keeping things on track and not rising to or simply ignoring the usual culprits.

A poster has no ability to 'keep things on track,' being the OP doesn't provide any ability to do so.

Trying just gets responses that they aren't a mod and can't tell people what to do.
And the mod advice is to report and not engage, which definitely means the responsibility doesn't lie on the OP.

If you really think that the OP has no control how they want their thread to go then I am not sure why folks post topics in the first place. Creating a thread with succinct language, a topic in mind while being aware of the tone of their language has a big effect on who you draw to your conversation. If you complain from the get go, you get complainers lumping on, change that to something more constructive, you get less of it. Doesn't always help mind you but you can't relinquish the part the original poster plays in driving the conversation and being there to report things getting out of hand.

Even if you don't complain from the get go, you get complainers 'lumping on.' It makes little difference. It is in fact why this thread started- a perfectly reasonable thread about a unit got hijacked by complainers a few posts in.

There is no need to relinquish control someone never had.
Options are reporting or get ignored as you plead for people to stop from a position of no power or influence.

Being an OP is meaningless. They have exactly the same power (i.e., none) as the third poster or thirtieth.

Voss wrote:
Even if you don't complain from the get go, you get complainers 'lumping on.' It makes little difference. It is in fact why this thread started- a perfectly reasonable thread about a unit got hijacked by complainers a few posts in.

There is no need to relinquish control someone never had.
Options are reporting or get ignored as you plead for people to stop from a position of no power or influence.

Being an OP is meaningless. They have exactly the same power (i.e., none) as the third poster or thirtieth.

There's certainly an element of that.
There's certainly some people that just will argue about anything and everything like irrelvant semantics.. I just usually skip over those posts.

On topic -
I would also like to interject that goading and baiting people, and only to then turn around " see! I was right, people are complaining. Weeeee!" is a thing also..

Just look at "Free minis & more at GW Stores when they re-open" thread.
Nobody was talking about space marines or complaining about "power armor" until OP decided he was going to bring it up trying to get people to bite and complain...

So you know... Watcha gunna do.

Having a different opinion and stating them should not be banned dor discouraged... And if people cant handle it, there is a very useful block/ignore button where you can just flat out ignore people... So if there really is somebody that only ever just says the same negative thing over and over, you can use that tool to ignore them. And filter the conversation through that "positive lens" and never have to respond to them... Its staggering that adults would complain about this while having the tools to resolve the problem.

If you absolutely only want all positive, all of the time, type deal about warhammer you can just go on GW/Warhammer TV etc. FB pages where they ban and shadow ban people who say anything remotely negative. And there just aren't any interesting conversations there.. wonder why.. (!)

/shrug.

To me, there's a subtle difference between picking out individual bad actors and 20-odd threads in general discussion just spammed with marine complaints regardless of subject or who the 'OP' was. Its settled down a little now, but for several weeks it infested everything, regardless of the actual topic.

Its not even vaguely about simple 'disagreements' or 'positivity'

Voss wrote:
/shrug.

To me, there's a subtle difference between picking out individual bad actors and 20-odd threads in general discussion just spammed with marine complaints regardless of subject or who the 'OP' was. Its settled down a little now, but for several weeks it infested everything, regardless of the actual topic.

Its not even vaguely about simple 'disagreements' or 'positivity'

it's settled down now but the minute blood angels and death guard come out next month expect to see it pop up again.

I think it's fine for there to be threads where people can complain about Marines being overpowered, or getting too many releases, or whatever. Even though I primarily play Marines and Chaos Marines, I actually mostly agree with the Xenos players' complaints. I'd be quite happy if every single Xenos range got a complete overhaul before we saw any new power armour releases.

What's not OK (IMO) is hijacking threads that are not about that and turning them into Marine complaint threads.

I don't particularly blame the people who do that, though. People get pissed off and let their frustrations with GW get the better of them, and because GW isn't here to get its metaphorical face kicked in, other posters end up on the receiving end of that frustration instead. It's up to the mods to keep threads on topic and split complaints off into their own thread (preferably before the Marine fans respond in kind as their frustrations get the better of them).

In other words, I'm saying the problem isn't a handful of 'problem posters'. The problem is the frankly ineffective moderation here.

I think bad-faith posting should be considered a violation of rule #1.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I think bad-faith posting should be considered a violation of rule #1.

That’s not a very Dakka idea at all.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I think bad-faith posting should be considered a violation of rule #1.

That’s not a very Dakka idea at all.

also who defines what is "bad faith"?

now if we're going to get into adding rules heres one that I think needs to be added.
An explict rule aruging for squatting factions. in almost all of the time those are just pure bile.