Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

How do!

I did a search, and I now know I didn’t do this thread previously.

Now. This thread is a long overdue addition to what I intended to be a series of fairly light hearted threads picking the silver out the midden of otherwise Really Not That Great Films.

For those who missed/ignored/didn’t read the original threads, here’s a statement of intent.

Mad Doc Defends is absolutely not about revisionist, hipster, “so bad it’s good” film school nonsense. Rather, these threads fully acknowledge and accept that many films suck - but at least attempt to argue they still have redeeming features worth highlighting that otherwise get lost amongst the (well deserved) derision.

And this time? As the title doesn’t dance around, it’s AvP Requiem.

Yes. This is not a great film. But it does have some finer points I feel I can argue the case for.

It is of course a late day sequel to not one, but three franchises. And boy does it reflect the law of diminishing returns. Mind you though, when a complaint could be “not as good as Alien, Aliens or Predator”, that’s not in itself a crime of existence.

Now enough waffling and whimbriling. Let’s get to what I like. Yes this film has many, many sins. But we’re not focussing nor keeping count.

Like 1. The Predalien was something entirely new to the Franchises. Or at least a new take on it. That….takes balls. And I kind of appreciate that bold stride. The peeps wot made the film could’ve kept it safe and arguably boring, but they didn’t. For my own peculiar points system, trying something new, even if it’s a bit crap in the end, always scores higher than “what they did before, but with four arses”.

Like 2. It’s actually a pretty brutal film. We see Aliens in amongst a civilian environment, utterly unprepared for them. In the opening scenes we see a young kid Facehugged and not survive it. We then see the Predalien doing it’s jive on already pregnant women. For me, it’s doesn’t matter the latter doesn’t quite land. They’re still doing, or at least trying, something new. And it’s more than suitably horrific. It’s actually rather disturbing if you stop and think about it.

Like 3. Unlike AvP, we see a lone Predator actually being incredibly competent. Yes I know the first AvP is a rites of passage film. But us movie going idiots still, in our heart of hearts, expected competence from a Hunter Species. And we get it in spades with this installment.

Like 4. When the town is being overrun? The screams/shrieks of Aliens being shot to bits is satisfying. It’s the same scream from Aliens, and it’s bloody growth.

Like 5. Mmmm. Weyland Yutani. Kind of. Ish.

In summary? I for one prefer this to the first AvP film. It’s just most what I was expecting. And whilst deeply, arguably irredeemably flawed? I argue it has better High Points than it’s predecessor. Doesn’t make it a better movie, just more enjoyable for my money.

I like it alot.

IMO Its better than Prometheus and Convenant and as you say extremely brutal - in a good way from the very start

I like the "go to the centre of town where its safe" element.

However actually making the original AVP graphic novel would have been much much better

Now you've got me wishing for a Beast of Craggy Island movie.

But yeah, the first AvP was much more of a "by the numbers" Hollywood movie. Requiem seemed much closer to how it might actually feel to be caught between the eponymous monsters in, y'know, reality.

I'd certainly choose to watch it again before half the movies in both franchises.

I'm with Mr Morden on this one, it's alright but not a patch on the better Dark Horse comic runs

also @Momotaro, watch Grabbers its the closest we'll get, even if the monster doesn't have a tremendous fear of stamps

The film isn’t terrible but the concept is fundamentally flawed. Being set in contemporary times just doesn’t work. Set it in space like the comics / aliens films and it would be a winner.

I still prefer the first one…

Nah it is trash, but that is ok. It just means you are a cinematic raccoon.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
also @Momotaro, watch Grabbers its the closest we'll get, even if the monster doesn't have a tremendous fear of stamps

I'll give it a go, although that could be a deal-breaker...

Speaking of good-bad flicks and Grabbers, GoodBadFlicks Grabbers:

In my opinion Requiem has enough going for it to be an entertaining movie. It doesn't compare to Aliens, but what does? But I find I have to be in a particular mood to get myself to watch it, and that's easily attributed to two things.

First, that whole teenage high school drama thing in the movie. I'd cheer for the high school kids getting splattered by alien space monsters just fine without seeing in tedious detail why the fethers deserve to get splattered. Come on. It's not called Dudes vs Aliens and Stuff. It's Aliens vs Predator. It's implied that we're rooting for the alien space monsters.

Second, all the fun happens in the dark, half of it with a sprinkling of rain, featuring a drab alien space monster fighting dark alien space monsters. In the dark. Always. I'd really like to see what's going on, but hardly ever can.

So I look at the Doc's list of good things about the movie and I can't disagree, but the movie fails for me on such a basic level that the highlights are of little help.

It’s definitely mostly let down by it’s super dark palette. Also that idiot not getting Bumhugged off a Facehugger.

I'd also defend this move as not nearly as bad as people made it out to be and it's biggest problem is indeed that the film is too often too dark. Entire scenes were filmed with so little lighting that even turning up the contrast on your screen doesn't make them any easier to see. It's kind of the pinnacle of brainless action but it embraces that so much that I don't see much issue with it.

I think some of the targets of the film (especially the pregnant women scenes) are so over the top they're cringy, but somehow I think it sort of works for a movie as unapologetically shlocky as AvP Requim.

This movie was probably better for how much it feels like the people making it shrugged and just threw it onto the table. AvP's biggest issue was that it was a completely overthought movie. Requim didn't have that problem and I think benefits from it more than it suffers. It kind of captures the essence of what makes B movies fun while having an otherwise A movie effort put into it (except for the darkness that makes it hard to watch).

I still have some hope of a late day sequel to tie off a trilogy.

But how that would settle into the really pretty woeful Prometheus and it’s sequel? I don’t know.

If they ever do AvP again they need to just do the book/comic. feth this Earth present day gak. I want to see a colony accidentally become a breeding ground for aliens because the predators didn't know humanity showed up when they sent their drone to deposit eggs. I want to see unblooded Yautja get ripped to pieces because they are too big for their britches. And I want to see Machiko and D'chande tear their way through a cargo ship to get to the self destruct while running from a queen and blasting their way through a hoard of drones.

I'd agree.

I don't know why they didn't do that in the first place.

I have to admit, it's the only film in the entire franchise I haven't watched.

It looked so awful in the trailers/scenes I had seen that I just didn't bother.

Which considering I actually sat through Prometheus to the end says a lot about how I felt about this movie.

But it's just popped up on Disney+ in UK so I might give it a whirl based on this thread.

I’d say it’s definitely worth watching. Whilst it barely adds anything to either franchise, I wouldn’t say it ruins anything either.

There are absolutely better films to watch, but I’d be interested in your overall opinion.

It shows a phase in the alien life cycle we have not seen explored before. A young/premature queen trying to establish a hive before she creates a egg chamber and begins laying eggs.

And it shows a Predator with motivations we have not seen before. The Wolf as he is known is not a predator looking for trophies. This isn't about honor for him. He's a cleaner. He is here to kill and clean up a mess. And he does it with a single minded brutality that sets him apart from other Preds because he doesn't care about a grudge match with an individual.

The Wolf is, imo, definitely the most bad ass Pred we have seen on screen so far.

Wolf is definitely my favorite on-screen Predator. He brought some great toy's into his fight. I loved the idea that the plasma caster could be detached from the shoulder mount and used handheld. Plus he's the only Predator to dual wield plasma casters XD

No.

FFS man I had respect for your opinions before you made this post

Seriously though, I will admit I enjoyed it slightly more than the original (but then I probably would enjoy being spoon-fed my own entrails more too)

I can never, ever forgive how they manage to gak-up two franchises in just that pair of movies. The comic books were absolute gold-dust, so there was so much there they could have referenced and come up with something awesome, but instead they let what must have been a team of eight-year olds produce such utter, unmitigated, horsegak.

Edit: Upon reflection, I think viewed alongside the original it's not a complete carcrash - a few of the action sequences aren't bad. I can't forgive that scene in the hospital, which was unnecessary, but I think a lot of my strong dislike against both AvP films is what could have been (if they had chosen to copy the Noguchi plotline from the comic). I remember actually being quite surprised that they didn't, especially as it was quite modern with a strong female character (which would also have tied in with the Ripley theme running through the Alien films, then later Prometheus too).

I feel the same way about The Dark Tower. I absolutely love the book series, and when they announced the casting of Mcconaughey and Idris Elba I was so looking forward to it - only to have my hopes dashed. Again judged on its own I won't say it was a terrible film, but in the same way I think anyone that really enjoyed the literature tended to rate it a lot lower.

I was fine ith Dark Tower because it takes place after the books. The Gunslinger has the horn, which means it's after he got sent back to do it all again. You are not watching the books. You are watching one of potentially infinite loops he is trapped in trying to make his way to the tower.

I would agree that one of the biggest problems is the contemporary setting. Don't know why on earth they did that but it just immediately fails it as a movie. Makes it much too American and not the good kind. I have not seen it since it came out so my memory of it is probably not great. I would agree with the stuff you are saying MDG but I don't think those positives outweigh the negatives for me.

 Olthannon wrote:
I would agree that one of the biggest problems is the contemporary setting. Don't know why on earth they did that but it just immediately fails it as a movie. Makes it much too American and not the good kind. I have not seen it since it came out so my memory of it is probably not great. I would agree with the stuff you are saying MDG but I don't think those positives outweigh the negatives for me.

Contemporary settings are generally cheaper to use because you don't have to do a lot of set work and a lot of cities offer financial support to film there.

With how grungy the Aliens setting is, they really don't need much of a budget honestly. None of that Prometheus crap. Just use that now classic retro-tech look. Everyone can just wear speed suits and stuff and props shouldn't be too hard.

I think they could have easily made such a movie on a middling budget.

But then again, it's not like the contemporary setting is completely unworkable. Most of the issues with them are absurdities and cliches a better script could have avoided.

The contemporary setting doesn’t bother me quite so much, as it requires less “and this is where humanity is up to” type exposition. Lazy? You can certainly argue that. But as said above it could simply be a budget saving tool.

The first having a $60-70m budget? That’s fairly low as such things go.

I think AvPR did miss a bit of a trick with the poor lighting. After Aliens, I think it would’ve been nice to go back to the humans being unarmed, but seeing the Alien doing it’s thing in better lighting might’ve provided a different aspect of horror. Imagine seeing them slithering over the walls and ceiling, and not being able to do a damned thing.

However I fully accept that likely plays better in my head than on film.

Lordy, where has the time gone?

I remember back in the day when one of the brothers - the two fellas who made Requiem - posted on a vfx forum that they were working on the the film and we we're like "Dude! That's awesome! Congratulations!" and wishing them well. You can't know anyone really from just mere forum posts, but they seemed a nice person and I went in to watch Requiem as if it were a fan film - a Predator movie at best.

I haven't watched it in donkeys years since but I remember it being mostly good, but there were some "oh for ****'s sake" moments where it lost its footing. The first was the tired bullied teenager chasing ass routine, and the second being that pregnant-ward scene.

The lone "hunter" seems a bit silly when dealing with an extremely dangerous species that can not only spread like wildfire, but also has a hybrid to worry about as well. On top of that it will be evading humans, which have managed to kill other lone hunters in the past. That said, I enjoyed the urgency in which our lone hunter gets his xenos ass to Earth to deal with the whole cock up. "Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back before breakfast!"

The scenes I remember being most impressive were in the sewers as that was an effective place for the bugs themselves to shine. Its full of dark, miserable tunnels which harken back to the lonely corridors of the Nostromo and Hadley's Hope. Mr Pred, on the other hand, was in his element in a town where hunting was common.

I prefer the previous film by Paul Anderson, because I actually remember the human cast whereas Requiem is honestly just towns folk and some suits at the end. I remember the town's sheriff and a returning solider, but thats it. Oh, there was a very special guest appearance from the Pred-Alien.

And on that note, I'm right now starting a double-bill to see how they've aged in the last decade or two. Cassandra Peterson, if you would do the honours please!

See, I think The Wolf is arguably the most underrated aspect of the movie.

Not only do we once again get to see a highly competent Predator cleaning house - but the fact he was sent to clean house is a new aspect of Predator society to us.

He’s not there to hunt, it’s not a rite of passage for him. He’s there To Do A Very Specific Job.

Properly delving into that could be thread unto itself.

Is he acting in an official capacity, or is he The Cranky Old Coot taking it upon himself to clean up? Is this something they normally do? Or solely when Xenomorphs are transplanted to a civilised world and get out of hand? That he rocks up with his special Evidence-B-Gon blue goop strongly suggests it’s not him getting off his arse because a Predalien is a well good trophy. They don’t normally seem to care about cleaning up once they’ve got their trophy.

I’d love to have seen more stuff in that vein. As in, what happens when Predators aren’t just doing it for funnies, but containment?

He was called in from a distress beacon on the predators clan ship when it crashed. It looks like an automated system that calls in veteran cleaners with nothing left to prove.

And now I want a hybrid film with Jean Reno, Gary Oldman And a metric assload of xeno gribbleys!

 Flinty wrote:
And now I want a hybrid film with Jean Reno, Gary Oldman And a metric assload of xeno gribbleys!

I’d watch!