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Azure wrote:

Farmer wrote:I'm glad necrons aren't turning into blood angels...we'd see sliver painted marines using the necron codex.

Even more Grey Knights?

Naw... we'd see even the feared NECRORK!!!!
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/271328.page

micahaphone wrote:

kenzosan wrote:guys, you have to remember that unless its multi wound the scarabs are pretty useless against termis. all we know is they have the remove armor save/lower armor rating. even rending is w/e. just dont get your hopes up on seeing scarbs destory termis or even weaken em more so then a squad of warriors.

Well, they'd be a small sacrificial unit. The scarabs charge, hopefully live until the opponents assault phase, die, and then next shooting phase, no armor saves for mr. termie.

Only if Mr. Termie has more than one wound. If they do a wound to a Terminator---he'll be dead before his lack of armor save will come into play.


TWC
BloodCrushers
Nobz
MC
AV 14

Put them in front of your warriors and make them charge the Scarabs first. It's a lose/lose for your opponent.

micahaphone wrote:

kenzosan wrote:guys, you have to remember that unless its multi wound the scarabs are pretty useless against termis. all we know is they have the remove armor save/lower armor rating. even rending is w/e. just dont get your hopes up on seeing scarbs destory termis or even weaken em more so then a squad of warriors.

Well, they'd be a small sacrificial unit. The scarabs charge, hopefully live until the opponents assault phase, die, and then next shooting phase, no armor saves for mr. termie.

the way its worded it only works on a multi wound model. just like the sniper ability in the gk codex for the assassin, except it takes 1 models armor save if it suffers an unsaved wound and not the invul save if it hits. which means in cc you will have to role each save at a time cuz as soon as you fail 1 save that multi wound model loses the armor save, and you have to either let him suffer the rest of his wounds (with his invul save if he has one) or roll for other models in the unit.
IF you have a 5 man paladin squad that suffers 6 unsaved wounds then the problem is when those saves were taken. this would be a very time consuming endeavor but I would force this as a necron player: if you force the enemy to roll each dice individually you have a higher chance of causing more unsaved wounds and deaths, basically my point is, if the first 5 2+ armor save roles fail then the remaining 5 wounds must be taken via 5+ invul saves for the rest of the wounds caused by scarabs (assuming the 5 man paladin squad i mentioned earlier)

man i hope that was clear :( if its not ill try again...

Revenent Reiko wrote:Its probably been gone over before, but i dont like the loss of Pariahs, i know they werent the best unit, but i loved their fluff and models

it was said earlier, and i agree with this, that crypteks are pariahs or atleast replacing them. no one knows, unless they are holding out on us, what they new models will look like and maybe pariahs will be usable as crypteks.

KingCracker wrote:I just wanted to say, that saying someone that does not play in tournaments has no idea what they are talking about is just stupid. Incredibly stupid. Now if you are asking someone that doesnt play in tournies, about their opinions on tourny play, then yea I see your point. But just because 1 person doesnt goto tournies, does not mean they dont know what they are talking about.

If you read my post carefully, you'd notice we were discussing whether they were effective/competitive, two words that I feel mean largely the same thing, which may have been a point of confusion. If you're talking about the effectiveness of a unit in a wargame, I'd assume you're also saying something about how "competitive" it is as well. I did not say he had no idea what he was talking about in general as you imply above. I said he had no idea what he was talking about as it pertains to the competitiveness/effectiveness of a book. People don't need to go to tournies, they're not for everyone, just as painting competitions aren't for everyone.

But if you don't paint, you shouldn't think of yourself as knowledgeable on painting competitions. The same can be said, in my opinion, for commenting on the effectiveness (which to me as I said, means competitiveness when we're talking about units in a wargame) when you don't play in the competitive part of the environment (tournaments).

Pariahs my guess is will be removed and renamed, either as that phantom cc unit thats been mentioned, or as crypteks. Rumors elsewhere (warseer I believe) have flat out said "Pariahs have not been squatted". So I'd expect to see them somewhere in the book, if under a different name, so your models shouldn't be wasted.

Oddly, scarabs are a main point of excitement for me, I've always enjoyed painting/playing with them, and would love to see them get a bit of a boost in utility.

kenzosan wrote:the way its worded it only works on a multi wound model. just like the sniper ability in the gk codex for the assassin, except it takes 1 models armor save if it suffers an unsaved wound and not the invul save if it hits. which means in cc you will have to role each save at a time cuz as soon as you fail 1 save that multi wound model loses the armor save, and you have to either let him suffer the rest of his wounds (with his invul save if he has one) or roll for other models in the unit.
IF you have a 5 man paladin squad that suffers 6 unsaved wounds then the problem is when those saves were taken. this would be a very time consuming endeavor but I would force this as a necron player: if you force the enemy to roll each dice individually you have a higher chance of causing more unsaved wounds and deaths, basically my point is, if the first 5 2+ armor save roles fail then the remaining 5 wounds must be taken via 5+ invul saves for the rest of the wounds caused by scarabs (assuming the 5 man paladin squad i mentioned earlier)

man i hope that was clear :( if its not ill try again...

I don't know if it would work that way though, since all wounds are done at the same time and not in sequential order. So if you had 3 unsaved wounds on a 4 wound model that's 3 chances that the armor disintegrates from those attacks which would result in further attacks bypassing armor all together. But I don't think it would work the way you worded it because that would slow down the game and GW doesn't want that.

*Edit*
As targetawg said, unless there is different initiative steps amongst the scarabs. Or they're in multi-assault with another necron unit against that force that goes AFTER the scarabs.

kenzosan wrote:

micahaphone wrote:

kenzosan wrote:guys, you have to remember that unless its multi wound the scarabs are pretty useless against termis. all we know is they have the remove armor save/lower armor rating. even rending is w/e. just dont get your hopes up on seeing scarbs destory termis or even weaken em more so then a squad of warriors.

Well, they'd be a small sacrificial unit. The scarabs charge, hopefully live until the opponents assault phase, die, and then next shooting phase, no armor saves for mr. termie.

the way its worded it only works on a multi wound model. just like the sniper ability in the gk codex for the assassin, except it takes 1 models armor save if it suffers an unsaved wound and not the invul save if it hits. which means in cc you will have to role each save at a time cuz as soon as you fail 1 save that multi wound model loses the armor save, and you have to either let him suffer the rest of his wounds (with his invul save if he has one) or roll for other models in the unit.
IF you have a 5 man paladin squad that suffers 6 unsaved wounds then the problem is when those saves were taken. this would be a very time consuming endeavor but I would force this as a necron player: if you force the enemy to roll each dice individually you have a higher chance of causing more unsaved wounds and deaths, basically my point is, if the first 5 2+ armor save roles fail then the remaining 5 wounds must be taken via 5+ invul saves for the rest of the wounds caused by scarabs (assuming the 5 man paladin squad i mentioned earlier)

man i hope that was clear :( if its not ill try again...

I don't think that will work, unless you have different initiative steps. All of the scarbs saves would be rolled simultaneously, and so they'd use their 2+ versus all of them.

However, any of those that dropped in and knocked out a 2+ save would then leave the paladin open to be rapid fired down easily be nearby warriors/other units.

If I can re-point out to everyone, as far as fluff goes Pariah=/=Cryptek. The Cryptek comes from Fall of Damnos and is very distinctly Necron, having said to have risen from the ranks via an unkown method. What will be replacing Pariah instead, according again to FoD, is a 'Lych like warrior' that acted as bodyguards to the prime lord during the campaign. Pariah will still exist and will not be renamed something else for the codex, and that is not to imply they are still in the codex, merely to point out that, in fluff, there are now potentially 3 things that act similar to Pariahs; the Pariah themselves, Crypteks, and the unnamed Lych warriors

good point, i do agree that the because i plain forgot about initiative

i gues my point is unless the gk player allocated 1 wound (which would be dumb) to each paladin then they would be four 1 wound 5+ inv (using my previous example)

Vhalyar wrote:

The Twisted wrote:I don't think we will see the end of Pariahs at all. The most silly thing I've heard for a long time. You just don't make a pariah the central part of the Necrons story in the Dawn of War video game story line and get rid of them in the next codex.

Dark Crusade is a five year old game, thinking it has any relevance is pretty silly.

Perhaps I would accept that .. Oh, but wait! The fall of Damnos is only a year old and what's that retinue with the lord? Did someone say Warscythes?

I look forward to the new Pariah rules in the new codex when they get here.

Azure wrote:If I can re-point out to everyone, as far as fluff goes Pariah=/=Cryptek. The Cryptek comes from Fall of Damnos and is very distinctly Necron, having said to have risen from the ranks via an unkown method. What will be replacing Pariah instead, according again to FoD, is a 'Lych like warrior' that acted as bodyguards to the prime lord during the campaign. Pariah will still exist and will not be renamed something else for the codex, and that is not to imply they are still in the codex, merely to point out that, in fluff, there are now potentially 3 things that act similar to Pariahs; the Pariah themselves, Crypteks, and the unnamed Lych warriors

didnt know that. i should correct myself then: from the rules of the new units, pariahs are being replaced by crypteks

The Twisted wrote:

Vhalyar wrote:

The Twisted wrote:I don't think we will see the end of Pariahs at all. The most silly thing I've heard for a long time. You just don't make a pariah the central part of the Necrons story in the Dawn of War video game story line and get rid of them in the next codex.

Dark Crusade is a five year old game, thinking it has any relevance is pretty silly.

Perhaps I would accept that .. Oh, but wait! The fall of Damnos is only a year old and what's that retinue with the lord? Did someone say Warscythes?

I look forward to the new Pariah rules in the new codex when they get here.

I thought it came out a month ago?...

whembly wrote:
Naw... we'd see even the feared NECRORK!!!!
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/271328.page

Sorry, I know it's off topic but I must admit...I play Orcs & Goblins in Warhammer Fantasy and seeing the Black Orcs as a Necron conversion really made me smile... Also loved Da Nightbringer...but the warriors were the coolest...

Yea hate to get off topic, but that is, IMO, one of the best conversion projects Ive EVER seen. Ive showed friends and whatnot that page many times over the years

Well if the new Necron Codex has a weapon called "Warscythe of the Last WAAAGH!" We'll know why the C'Tan are out of the picture...
The Necrons simply changed their faith to worship Gork! (or possibly Mork)

angelshade00 wrote:Well if the new Necron Codex has a weapon called "Warscythe of the Last WAAAGH!" We'll know why the C'Tan are out of the picture...
The Necrons simply changed their faith to worship Gork! (or possibly Mork)

haha, having started this game as an ork player i find this completely amazing

Yeah just imagined a Monolith with a graffiti-like WAAAGH! written in red spray paint all over...

Azure wrote:

Farmer wrote:I'm glad necrons aren't turning into blood angels...we'd see sliver painted marines using the necron codex.

Even more Grey Knights?

No those are grey not sliver

atleast necrons will be unique this time instead of the old MEQ space marines who forgot to take their steroids

good thing I spread my scarabs from the necron warrior phalanx out to 3 a base instead of 4 like most people.
now I have enough to take to cover the additional points I get if these rumors are true.

I don't like the mention about the armor saves though. its rare enough as it is that I even get a save with all the high Str and low AP weapons abound.

Onnotangu wrote:
I don't like the mention about the armor saves though. its rare enough as it is that I even get a save with all the high Str and low AP weapons abound.

This is one of those times where I wonder if people just don't read the rumors they're responding to.

Yakface wrote:3) We'll be Back is no longer called that and it is NOT Feel No Pain. Basically it is a 5+ bonus save similar to Feel No Pain, but doesn't get cancelled out by double strength, AP1/2, etc. In addition, this save is made at the END of the phase after morale tests are taken. If the unit is wiped out or is falling back at the end of the phase, then the save cannot be used. So as an opponent, if you manage to wipe the unit out or make them fall back, then you prevent any Necrons from getting back up...unless the unit has something called the 'ever-living' rule, in which case it gets to attempt this save even if the unit is wiped out.

Notice:

Basically it is a 5+ bonus save similar to Feel No Pain, but doesn't get cancelled out by double strength, AP1/2, etc. In addition, this save is made at the END of the phase after morale tests are taken

And then there's also:

unless the unit has something called the 'ever-living' rule, in which case it gets to attempt this save even if the unit is wiped out.

And of course, there's also the Rez Orb changing it to a 4+ rather than a 5+ for any unit with a Rez Orb.

Overall, I'd say it's not something to worry too much about when you're losing the 3+ for a 4+.

The Twisted wrote:

Vhalyar wrote:

The Twisted wrote:I don't think we will see the end of Pariahs at all. The most silly thing I've heard for a long time. You just don't make a pariah the central part of the Necrons story in the Dawn of War video game story line and get rid of them in the next codex.

Dark Crusade is a five year old game, thinking it has any relevance is pretty silly.

Perhaps I would accept that .. Oh, but wait! The fall of Damnos is only a year old and what's that retinue with the lord? Did someone say Warscythes?

I look forward to the new Pariah rules in the new codex when they get here.

Because things like powers and equipment cannot be reshuffled throughout an army, and that is why GK Terminators still have Holocaust! Oh wait...
Plus did the book even give them a single Pariah-like quality beyond them carrying a warscythe? It didn't, how weird!

I'm not saying Pariahs are gone, but those are some pretty thin arguments to say that they absolutely are in the codex. PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE NEVER PERMISSABLE.

KingCracker wrote:

Gethvar wrote:I hope thos rumors all will end up in the warp as some kind of embarrassing joke that isn't even funny.

The changes in rules and stats would be the worst thing that would happen to the necrons since the release of 5th ed of rules, the whole idea seem to be just "Oh, make the warriors more crap, take the immortals to troops, give them warrior statline and screw them all more with ridiculous WBB change" another idea with destroyers being jump infantry=WTF!?
If it turn to be true my whole necron army goes ebay and i will quit the hobby.

Well the Immortals are going to keep the 3+ save, so they wont be too much different. Missiles/rokkits wont matter too much, since you can always take aWBB according to current rules. And how are warriors more suck? You take away the phase out rules, and honestly the only thing bad about them is how poor they do in CC. So if you were to ask me, just taking away phase out makes them better.

Changes to the WBB sound great to me, so you take a res orb and get it back to 4+ (again current rumors) And destroyers being jump troops rumor....well that does seem a bit off, BUT in all honesty, most the time I use destroyers they only move 12 inches anyways, so I can keep on blasting away at the enemy.

The way i see it an imortal became what a warrior is now but with a better gun no phase out and a slightly worse WBB that doesn't get negated by anything. id say that would be an effective warrior equivlent to the one now and at a 1 point drop.

Kanluwen wrote:

Onnotangu wrote:
I don't like the mention about the armor saves though. its rare enough as it is that I even get a save with all the high Str and low AP weapons abound.

This is one of those times where I wonder if people just don't read the rumors they're responding to.

Overall, I'd say it's not something to worry too much about when you're losing the 3+ for a 4+.

Oh I read it I still would rather have my 3+ save on my warriors and my Toughness 5 on my imortals rather than end up heavy bolter bait.

yakface wrote:13) Necron Warriors have the same basic statline they had before except they now have a 4+ save. Now before you go crazy, also note that their points cost is 12 points, which is a 1/3 price drop (down from 18 points). That means you get 1/3 more Warrior models in the army for the same amount of points...it also makes losing an entire unit due to sweeping advance, not nearly as painful.

14) Immortals have lost their T5 (down to T4)

15) Rez Orb is still in the game and boosts the new WBB rule to a 4+ instead of a 5+, but only affects the unit it is in.

These just made my day.

No longer will I have to deal with "Dead Robot Space Marines" with an impossible to Kill in combat HQ who likes pretending to be a Sanguinary Novitiate with "6-inch re-rolling FNP Dead Skeleton Robot Blood Cups" while sitting the the middle of a sea of Warriors whom are within Rez Orb range.

Enlightenment's a beautiful feeling it is

Vhalyar wrote:

The Twisted wrote:

Vhalyar wrote:

The Twisted wrote:I don't think we will see the end of Pariahs at all. The most silly thing I've heard for a long time. You just don't make a pariah the central part of the Necrons story in the Dawn of War video game story line and get rid of them in the next codex.

Dark Crusade is a five year old game, thinking it has any relevance is pretty silly.

Perhaps I would accept that .. Oh, but wait! The fall of Damnos is only a year old and what's that retinue with the lord? Did someone say Warscythes?

I look forward to the new Pariah rules in the new codex when they get here.

Because things like powers and equipment cannot be reshuffled throughout an army, and that is why GK Terminators still have Holocaust! Oh wait...
Plus did the book even give them a single Pariah-like quality beyond them carrying a warscythe? It didn't, how weird!

I'm not saying Pariahs are gone, but those are some pretty thin arguments to say that they absolutely are in the codex. You, on the other hand, seem a bit thick

Ah, so it comes down to a personal insult does it. Actually FYI, I have an IQ over 150 and am currently studying my Ba Sci (Hons) in Astrophysics with the Open University. That aside, what the hell is your problem? a public forum is a place to pass opinion. The fact is no one but GW knows what's in the codex. I'm going on the vague clues and some gut instinct to be sure but as a veteran who has been playing WH40K since 1st edition (and other wargames and RPG's for 17 years beforehand) I often guess close to the mark.

Can't you handle some open debate? Others opinions? Whatever your problem I don't need your attitude and a personal attack is plain out of order.

Rule 1 of the dakka posting rules is BE POLITE! Now let's try to be adults shall we.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Scarey Nerd wrote:

The Twisted wrote:

Vhalyar wrote:

The Twisted wrote:I don't think we will see the end of Pariahs at all. The most silly thing I've heard for a long time. You just don't make a pariah the central part of the Necrons story in the Dawn of War video game story line and get rid of them in the next codex.

Dark Crusade is a five year old game, thinking it has any relevance is pretty silly.

Perhaps I would accept that .. Oh, but wait! The fall of Damnos is only a year old and what's that retinue with the lord? Did someone say Warscythes?

I look forward to the new Pariah rules in the new codex when they get here.

I thought it came out a month ago?...

You are of course correct, I meant a month old. It's been a loooong day. XD

THAT'S ENTIRELY ENOUGH PERSONAL BICKERING AND INSULTS. BE POLITE OR DON'T POST. THIS IS A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE TOY SOLDIERS WE ALL ENJOY. IF YOU FIND YOURSELF GETTING UPSET ABOUT IT, STEP BACK FROM THE COMPUTER, TAKE A WALK AND/OR ENJOY A REFRESHING BEVERAGE, AND COME BACK WHEN YOU FEEL COPACETIC AND RELAXED.

Seriously. You'd probably get along and shake hands and have a beer if you met in person. Don't let internet anonymity tempt you into being incivil with one another.

Azure wrote:If I can re-point out to everyone, as far as fluff goes Pariah=/=Cryptek. The Cryptek comes from Fall of Damnos and is very distinctly Necron, having said to have risen from the ranks via an unkown method. What will be replacing Pariah instead, according again to FoD, is a 'Lych like warrior' that acted as bodyguards to the prime lord during the campaign. Pariah will still exist and will not be renamed something else for the codex, and that is not to imply they are still in the codex, merely to point out that, in fluff, there are now potentially 3 things that act similar to Pariahs; the Pariah themselves, Crypteks, and the unnamed Lych warriors

Hmmmm....LYCHE like warriors who GUARD the Lord, you say?

I wonder what that new Elites unit that can carry Warscythes in the new codex will be called?

Oh god... I sure hope it's not the Lichguard, as I think you're implying... That just doesn't flow right to me.

yakface wrote:

Azure wrote:If I can re-point out to everyone, as far as fluff goes Pariah=/=Cryptek. The Cryptek comes from Fall of Damnos and is very distinctly Necron, having said to have risen from the ranks via an unkown method. What will be replacing Pariah instead, according again to FoD, is a 'Lych like warrior' that acted as bodyguards to the prime lord during the campaign. Pariah will still exist and will not be renamed something else for the codex, and that is not to imply they are still in the codex, merely to point out that, in fluff, there are now potentially 3 things that act similar to Pariahs; the Pariah themselves, Crypteks, and the unnamed Lych warriors

Hmmmm....LYCHE like warriors who GUARD the Lord, you say?

I wonder what that new Elites unit that can carry Warscythes in the new codex will be called?

lol, another tasty tidbit. I can't wait until you give us another big update! please keep it up, I know it's keeping some of us Sane lol.

Lich Guard huh? Not the most Necorny name. But I guess Tomb Guard is already taken. I can live with it.

Shelegelah wrote:Oh god... I sure hope it's not the Lichguard, as I think you're implying... That just doesn't flow right to me.

Let's see if they can pass their Ward save...

Yakface... you damn well better not be leading me on. My happiness at the prospect of Lyche Guard is untranslatable into words. This is the best rumor ever