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Dudeface wrote:

Voss wrote:
Can we not clutter the news thread with backseat trade policing?

It is relevant to the release of the launch box.

Reports of stores getting less stock, yes.
'Analysis' of GW's potential for prosecution, much less so.

No way. I mean you can take all excuses for shortages but warning your partners, yes partners, this late is borderline irresponsible.

Da Butcha wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Weren't gw pretty much againstpre-pre-order? Possible gw went bit of "don't do that"? Or has gw loosened attitude on that?

The problem is, at least in the US, that FLGS have to have their preorders in to GW days before actual preorders go live. So they absolutely need to know how many people would like to preorder the game, before you can preorder the game. It doesn't matter what GW wants to call it, short of sending a psyker to every FLGS to foretell their sales numbers, the FLGs have to have a pre-pre-order order.

Local flgs doesn't ask people how many are buying. How they manage without pre-pre-order?

I'll throw my anecdote on the pile.

All the information and promises of available stock until late last night indicated stock levels would be fine and we would get everything we ordered. There was no indication that there would be any stock shortages, we were even encouraged to up our numbers as recently as Tuesday. Here is the unadulterated and transparent series of events and the outcomes of such.

We finalised our request for enough units last night to cover 100% of interest list demand and have enough for general sale at 10am on Saturday for pre orders. At no point during these discussions was any indication made that there was likely to be stock shortages. As you can observe for yourselves through Games Workshop’s marketing, incredibly large volumes of stock were purported to have been made.
This morning Games Workshop emailed to tell us we would be receiving exactly 33.33% of what we asked for and this is less than 25% of the numbers given to us which would be considered “no problem”.

Pretty clear GW have f over 3rd party sellers again. If I ran an independent FLGS I'd tell them to get f'd and transition more to board and card games.

 bullyboy wrote:
Scouts with 2 wounds
I guess new scouts coming too?

I think the next KT box is rumoured to be Scouts vs Scorpions?

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Scouts with 2 wounds
I guess new scouts coming too?

I think the next KT box is rumoured to be Scouts vs Scorpions?

Indeed it is.

FWIW, with regards to Leviathan stock levels / FLGS allocation, similar sounds are starting to pop up (French-language Warhammer Forum).

Several shops are reporting that they'll only get a fraction (30 out of 170 was given as an example) of their initial allocation / order.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Scouts with 2 wounds
I guess new scouts coming too?

I think the next KT box is rumoured to be Scouts vs Scorpions?

I can see that as being as popular as Leviathan.

 Souleater wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Scouts with 2 wounds
I guess new scouts coming too?

I think the next KT box is rumoured to be Scouts vs Scorpions?

I can see that as being as popular as Leviathan.

I can see it vanishing before most can order

Going to be fun to see if Veteran Intercessors get disappeared or legended.
Would it have really been so bad to give Sternguard the choice to swap to heavy bolt pistols/chainswords and give sergeants weapon options?

Holy bloat Batman! An HQ card for every armor type and for Primaris and regular Marines. Good golly that is a lot of data cards to go through.

Quick thoughts while skimming
- Very good job distinguishing Intercessors from Tacticals although I would bet that people who play only firstborn may miss having Obsec sticky objective whatever we're calling it (should have been a keyword... )
-Surprised that Gravis is T6, I thought the whole deal with Gravis was that it was like Terminator armor but more mobile, seems odd.
-Assault Termies forcing battleshock is fun
-Contemptor Dreads get a resurrect ability but Phoenix Lords don't, big ouch
-Chainsword doctrine couldn't have called it chainsword specialists or expertise?
-I like they included a designer's note on the plasma guys
-Very cool OC ability on the Salamander's hero

bobthe4th wrote:
Pretty clear GW have f over 3rd party sellers again. If I ran an independent FLGS I'd tell them to get f'd and transition more to board and card games.

Every time it's happened in the US, their own retail locations get zero allocation to give everything not allocated to the webstore to independents.

Old-Four-Arms wrote:
FWIW, with regards to Leviathan stock levels / FLGS allocation, similar sounds are starting to pop up (French-language Warhammer Forum).

Several shops are reporting that they'll only get a fraction (30 out of 170 was given as an example) of their initial allocation / order.

Fairly interesting, namely because the store I am using would not confirm their allocation and whether being on the interest list would guarantee an order until today, and I have had my allocation confirmed... Which is more than 1x box (buying one for my nephew).

Then again, my faith that I will actually get that is limited, I have preordered the Lion and Gallowdark from the store's 'confirmed' stock only for that to be cancelled by GW.

Just to add to this, if GW have F'ed it up. I can't see this going down well, considering how many sets have been given out. When people with a thousand or 2 instagram followers are getting sets, and customers can't get there, they will have to reevaluate their influencer marketing strategy.

No One Important wrote:
Going to be fun to see if Veteran Intercessors get disappeared or legended.
Would it have really been so bad to give Sternguard the choice to swap to heavy bolt pistols/chainswords and give sergeants weapon options?

Veteran intercessors don't really have a role. They're just... intercessors. (plus frankly there are still too many marine datasheets)
And unit role is really the direction GW is going, even if they're still staggering a bit under legacy options.

For the sternguard, they're there to be ranged small arms specialists. Vanguard vets are the punchy guys. That's their role.

What I find funny in usual primaris melee sabotage idiocy is the fact that plasma pistol is fist only. Which makes exclusive magazine captain with old school loadout (plasma pistol plus power sword) illegal. Bravo GW

Then you have gems like shooty phobos LT being more useful to reivers (especially carbine ones) than actual reiver LT (who, unlike the former, also can't deep strike with them), with amusing combo of bolter reivers being immune to return fire if you give them librarian unless opponent starts running after them. Still no access to any melee weapons in all of the above besides librarian force sword, because frak you

Also, I hate GW being inconsistent in primaris heavy bolt pistols, because half of them for some comically stupid reason only have a bolt pistol, despite bits being identical to heavy bolt pistols of other primaris. It's even dumber on some models who can swap default bolt pistol for heavy bolt pistol for free, with kit having only one gun bit on sprue, that of heavy bolt pistol. Brilliant!

Would it be so hard to just give all primaris HBP, and while we're at it, why was primaris apothecary pistol nerfed to comical 3 inch range? And why backpack saws on techmarine (and squatpothecary) are melee weapons, but for some frakking non-reason not a single primaris apothecary can use theirs and their only melee is (completely absent from model) knife? Or are they just stabbing enemies with their surgical scissors?

 Altruizine wrote:
Only if you're trying to answer the question "does the edition entire have less re-rolls?" Right now I'm just thinking of "which of these two armies seems easier/better to succeed with?" You aren't compelled to take one of everything per battle.

You really don't get why saying 'the army with 6x the datasheets has 4x the reroll amount' is not really the zinger you think it is?

 Irbis wrote:
What I find funny in usual primaris melee sabotage idiocy is the fact that plasma pistol is fist only. Which makes exclusive magazine captain with old school loadout (plasma pistol plus power sword) illegal. Bravo GW

It was never legal outside of Black Templars at any point, that's the best part. AND it's getting a JoyToy figure, too!

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
An HQ card for every armor type and for Primaris and regular Marines.

But we simply cannot distinguish between a Bone Sword and Rending Claws, a Bolt Pistol and a Web Pistol, or a Combi-Flamer and a Combi-Melta. That would be too hard!

 Kanluwen wrote:
Not gonna lie, I would rather that Shrike not have been able to join anyone than to be hucked into the Assault and Vanguard Veterans.

It is neat that the Phobos Captain can lead scouts though.

With Sternguard and Terminators getting a "Primaris sized" set of models but not separate entries, I bet we will see a new kit for Vanguard Veterans in Mk X armor with Jump Pack options and their "Heirloom Weapons"

I am 100% sure that there will be changes when codex hits.

And I especially hope that combi-weapons get some justice, those are done dirty.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Not gonna lie, I would rather that Shrike not have been able to join anyone than to be hucked into the Assault and Vanguard Veterans.

It is neat that the Phobos Captain can lead scouts though.

With Sternguard and Terminators getting a "Primaris sized" set of models but not separate entries, I bet we will see a new kit for Vanguard Veterans in Mk X armor with Jump Pack options and their "Heirloom Weapons"

Well, one small niggle to the 'no separate entries' aspect is sternguard have the Tacticus keyword, which prevents them from riding in Rhinos and Razorbacks (and marks them as primaris). There may be other interactions as well.

Its also seems to be a 'hidden' limit on which characters can join up with them. No old marine captains, LTs, chaplains, librarians can join Sternguard, but non-phobos primaris can (unsuprisingly, gravis characters are stuck with gravis units). Amusingly the bike characters don't have to do an 'armor check' to join squads.

If vanguard vets do get redone like Sternguard, they may end up with no current characters that can join them.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I like that Outriders can come in more than squads of 3. Now we just need weapon options on the Sergeant.

Yeeeah, about that, I won't be holding my breath given the example of literally every single primaris sarge save for intercessor ones

Tac Squads with double special weapons and Dev Squads with quad Heavy Flamers. Weird day.

First one is probably for SW/BT so they can field their snowflake troop squad equivalents, the latter for BA who could do that. Ditto with double special assault squad, BA option. Hopefully all chapters can do that now and GW won't go back come the Codex...

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Wait... why the feth does a Primaris Captain need a shield to join Bladeguard or a plasma pistol to join a Hellblaster squad while a Primaris Lieutenant doesn't need either?
GW why are you like this, the added restriction isn't needed

Because it's supposed to be bladeguard captain. Which if anything, is one model that should have kept his datasheet instead of being rolled in, seeing he had an artificier plate and completely different rules to regular one. There is good 10-15 character models that weren't crushed into a single sheet despite being way more similar to their equivalents than he was. Oh well.

What is curious is the hellblaster thing, because all 3 models of captains with plasma pistols are just regular primaris Mk X and none of them has anything to do with hellblasters. Go figure. Maybe it's some sort of DA rule holdout?

Funnily enough, the lieutenant doesn't have such restriction because (ZING!) normal primaris LT with plasma pistol doesn't exist! No, really, outside of DA only model (who I guess is another example of snowflake rules from above filtering to base Codex) there is no LT who could ever take one, so I guess writers skipped the limitation. Consistency, what's that?

But the bladeguard thing is weird for another reason - they, in fluff, protect all chapter officers, so they really should have rule allowing anyone to join them, much like Calgar and his not-bladeguards. Alas, writing this would require the dude sabotaging primaris for 3 editions now to actually A) know their fluff, B) make any effort writing their rules, sooo...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
An HQ card for every armor type and for Primaris and regular Marines.

But we simply cannot distinguish between a Bone Sword and Rending Claws, a Bolt Pistol and a Web Pistol, or a Combi-Flamer and a Combi-Melta. That would be too hard!

Don't worry, once there is a new MELEE Warrior kit and a PEW PEW Warrior kit that are separate and distinct kits ($65 each ) they'll distinguish them again

NVM

The strikeforce Agustus Lt can take a plasma pistol.

Voss wrote:

No One Important wrote:
Going to be fun to see if Veteran Intercessors get disappeared or legended.
Would it have really been so bad to give Sternguard the choice to swap to heavy bolt pistols/chainswords and give sergeants weapon options?

Veteran intercessors don't really have a role. They're just... intercessors. (plus frankly there are still too many marine datasheets)
And unit role is really the direction GW is going, even if they're still staggering a bit under legacy options.

For the sternguard, they're there to be ranged small arms specialists. Vanguard vets are the punchy guys. That's their role.

All basically true, but it's still a shame to see a unit entirely disappear when it would be so easy to roll it into another unit via basic options for the sergeant and sub-par options for the unit. If they don't make Legends, I'm struggling a bit to find a way to field my mixed-weapon Veteran unit - and it's a struggle I grew tired of seeing people go through several editions ago. I thought Legends would solve that, but too much didn't make it into Legends last time and even more was cut from codexes throughout the edition and never moved over. As it stands, I'm not hopeful about 10th.

No One Important wrote:

Voss wrote:

No One Important wrote:
Going to be fun to see if Veteran Intercessors get disappeared or legended.
Would it have really been so bad to give Sternguard the choice to swap to heavy bolt pistols/chainswords and give sergeants weapon options?

Veteran intercessors don't really have a role. They're just... intercessors. (plus frankly there are still too many marine datasheets)
And unit role is really the direction GW is going, even if they're still staggering a bit under legacy options.

For the sternguard, they're there to be ranged small arms specialists. Vanguard vets are the punchy guys. That's their role.

All basically true, but it's still a shame to see a unit entirely disappear when it would be so easy to roll it into another unit via basic options for the sergeant and sub-par options for the unit. If they don't make Legends, I'm struggling a bit to find a way to field my mixed-weapon Veteran unit - and it's a struggle I grew tired of seeing people go through several editions ago. I thought Legends would solve that, but too much didn't make it into Legends last time and even more was cut from codexes throughout the edition and never moved over. As it stands, I'm not hopeful about 10th.

The same thing happened to the Venerable Dreadnought, it seems.

tneva82 wrote:

Aeneades wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Weren't gw pretty much againstpre-pre-order? Possible gw went bit of "don't do that"? Or has gw loosened attitude on that?

The stores use the term Interest Lists instead as a get around. There are a few in the UK that are doing it.

Yea but regardless of term it's still pre-pre-order. Wondering if this is gw's way of stinging those who do it too openly.

There are two flgs I buy from (Neither are actually local, I live rural) and one openly advertised an 'interest list' but has not yet posted about cancelled stock allocation. The much smaller store, which doesn't really announce itself much on social media and never posted an interest list has just cancelled having any web store pre-orders. The only way to get one now is to pre-order in store, in person. This has changed since just the 7th June.

So I don't think its to do with stinging those stores that did it. Maybe the other larger store that had the interest list, will also post up later tonight about issues with stock.

The store is a little over 250km away at the quickest, but most expensive route. Just under 300km on the cheapest route. To me, this is just GW way of making sure people order direct. It costs more from them, but if I now want to pre-order a set I'd have to pay to travel all that way just to be able to 'pre-order'. I'd still have to go and pick it up in two weeks time as well.

I'd honestly like to get everyone in my local group, their spouses, neighbours, and anyone else we know that has an account to each pre-order as many sets as we possibly can. Then cancel each of the orders friday next.

even odds that the GW sales team taking store orders wasn't actually told the amount of stock they had to sell

('right team, we've made loads, there are no shortages so sell, sell, sell, there will be a prize for the agent who shifts the most stock),
then lo and behold there was not infinite stock to sell and lots of embarrassing emails/calls

or

a bunch of the non-uk stock that should have arrived in time to be part of the release hasn't and is stuck in containers in transit, or waiting to be inspected by customs and will reappear a few weeks after launch with the GW reps again offering loads of stock

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
even odds that the GW sales team taking store orders wasn't actually told the amount of stock they had to sell

('right team, we've made loads, there are no shortages so sell, sell, sell, there will be a prize for the agent who shifts the most stock),
then lo and behold there was not infinite stock to sell and lots of embarrassing emails/calls

or

a bunch of the non-uk stock that should have arrived in time to be part of the release hasn't and is stuck in containers in transit, or waiting to be inspected by customs and will reappear a few weeks after launch with the GW reps again offering loads of stock

Both are plausible-ish, and not-so-uncommon modes of corporate disfunction. The customs/transit thing however is mitigated by the fact that it's still two weeks until the orders need to actually be fulfilled, it would have needed a major problem somewhere upstream to have that much of an impact.