Sisters of Battle

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**Spidey0804**

Hollowman wrote:I'm hoping there is something I am missing in the rumours, because currently it looks like PE are, if anything, worse off. Hull points as the rumors have them are just another way to die, auto-wrecking you after a set number of glances (looks like 3 for walkers). In vehicles that is mitigated by increased speed and the fact that glances can't stop them firing, but for a close combat walker it just looks to make things deadlier. Open topped is as dangerous as before, and squadrons are reported to work the same.

On the plus side, you can keep them in cover easier with rage not controlling their movement. Extra hits is nice. And trying to spam 18 of them in high point games could be a hilarious, if questionable tactic.

But in there rules it specifilcly says that they ignore shaken and stun results to me this would mean that that they do not any an effect on them at all.

Also with the new rage rule PE goes to a base 4 attacks on the charge, with the top end being 9, If you have a good round with a single PE could have 18 attacks.

**pretre**

Spidey0804 wrote:But in there rules it specifilcly says that they ignore shaken and stun results to me this would mean that that they do not any an effect on them at all.

Also with the new rage rule PE goes to a base 4 attacks on the charge, with the top end being 9, If you have a good round with a single PE could have 18 attacks.

With no glances anymore, ignoring stun and shaken loses its lustre.

**SagesStone**

It'd still ignore 1-2 on the pen table. So at least it does something however little it is now.

Against AP3 and worse of course as the bonus to AP1 and 2 would make it entirely worthless... I think it's one of those things that are nice as an unplanned bonus.

**Spidey0804**

Has anyone found out what Dreadnought close combat weapons are rated as in CC?

**pretre**

AP2, supposedly.

**Jancoran**

Wait...Power Weapons aren't going to be AP 2? Why? Isn't that the point? I mean if they wanna' dink around with non power weapons., okay fine. I dont like it but fine. But making what started as a power weapon incapable of killing terminators kinda butt hurts me a little. It's hard enough to kill the damn storm shileds as it is. Now they are making it so Storm Shields are hardly necessary?

hmm...

**pretre**

Umm... Okay.

Some Power Weapons (swords, claws) are AP3
Some are AP2 (Axes, PF, Klaws)
Some are AP4 (Mauls)

**quiestdeus**

pretre wrote:
Spidey0804 wrote:But in there rules it specifilcly says that they ignore shaken and stun results to me this would mean that that they do not any an effect on them at all.

Also with the new rage rule PE goes to a base 4 attacks on the charge, with the top end being 9, If you have a good round with a single PE could have 18 attacks.

With no glances anymore, ignoring stun and shaken loses its lustre.

Yeah, with the new chart - shaken is 1-2 and stunned is 3... so it means half the pen chart is ignored. However, open-topped still means +1, and AP2 gets +1... so it just really ignores 1's. There is still a 50% chance of losing the PE to a pen, but I suppose that is technically better than the 66% chance there was in 5th ed.

Not losing PEs to immobilize anymore is interesting (squadron vehicles are no longer wrecked if they become immobile)... sure they are no longer offensively effective - but being able to hide sisters around/behind an immobile PE would be funny.

But yeah, I'm not seeing a lot that makes PEs worth it sadly, especially not when compared to twin-linked, rending retributors (CCS with "Bring it down!" nearby

), not to mention how awesome Exorcists will be with AP1.

**pretre**

You're missing the big point though. The pen table sucks, but hull points suck more. Every glance or pen (ignored or not) is a hull point gone. All those shots that would normally shake or stun it (S4 to S6 weapons) now take off a Hull Point.

That means it dies in three hits no matter what.

**quiestdeus**

Oh, no I totally get it. However, for those looking for a silver lining, that's potentially 2 more hits than it would have normally survived, heh.

**Hollowman**

Actually on reflection, I think the silver lining is better than expected on PE in squadrons. Currently, I lose a lot of PE to glancing hits - with open topped and squadron they wreck pretty often on a glance.

Under the new rules, this does not happen. Assuming I have 3 Penitent Engines, I can put a glance on each and wrap it around (I assume?), meaning it takes 4 glances/pens before 1 PE loses a second hull point, and 7 to actually kill a single PE with glancing shots. Combined with the ability to ignore a larger number of pens, I think PE (and squadrons in general) might have got a good deal BETTER overall.

Of course, I might be missing any number of rules elements that might hurt, or help, PE. But in the sunny light of morning, I'm feeling better about them - run in full squadrons, at least.

**pretre**

Pretty sure you stack the hits on the closest PE. Have to wait to see though.

**DPBellathrom**

so, just won the school league with the list I posted earlyer and I have to say I'm pretty impressed with it. I'd have liked to try out 4 HB rets but the exorcist really pulled through in the end so I'm happy to keep it in there though at 750 I might think of adding 2 ret units :? the amount of shots they can pump out has finally sunk in :3

**pretre**

DPBellathrom wrote:so, just won the school league with the list I posted earlyer and I have to say I'm pretty impressed with it. I'd have liked to try out 4 HB rets but the exorcist really pulled through in the end so I'm happy to keep it in there though at 750 I might think of adding 2 ret units :?

Very nice! Repost the list?

**DPBellathrom**

pretre wrote:
DPBellathrom wrote:so, just won the school league with the list I posted earlyer and I have to say I'm pretty impressed with it. I'd have liked to try out 4 HB rets but the exorcist really pulled through in the end so I'm happy to keep it in there though at 750 I might think of adding 2 ret units :?

Very nice! Repost the list?

celestine

10 women in a rhino with a melta and flamer X2

exorcist

if I'm honest, celestine is a little bit broken at 600pts as your opponent cant just ignore her, nor can they kill her :3 the exorcist pops anything that isnt AV14 and 20 power armoured bodies is always nice XD

**pretre**

Yeah, Celestine is broken at most point levels, but at 600 points? That's just disgusting.

Congrats then!

**DPBellathrom**

pretre wrote:Yeah, Celestine is broken at most point levels, but at 600 points? That's just disgusting.

Congrats then!

lol, thanks ^.^

**Hollowman**

pretre wrote:Pretty sure you stack the hits on the closest PE. Have to wait to see though.

Almost as good - can't lose more than one to a firing squad (something that wasn't entirely uncommon in 5th), and you can move a wounded one to the rear for the next turn. Still, we'll see.

**Spidey0804**

Hollowman wrote:
pretre wrote:Pretty sure you stack the hits on the closest PE. Have to wait to see though.

Almost as good - can't lose more than one to a firing squad (something that wasn't entirely uncommon in 5th), and you can move a wounded one to the rear for the next turn. Still, we'll see.

I think you right...LOL wonder if I can get 12 of them on the feild...

**quiestdeus**

Have been thinking about this a lot (too much?) lately, but the biggest issue to PEs is getting shot up as they cross the board.

What if they did not have to cross the board?

Creed lets you give a unit scout... Outflanking PEs? Toss an astropath in there and now we have what, nearly 90% certainty they will show up on the edge we want them to?

Definitely cannot wait to see the rules on Saturday and clear up some of these hypotheticals.

List discussion below:

Spoiler:

**pretre**

They can't assault from Reserves, according to the most recent rumors.

Also, not from scout as well. That would have been a better move to have them scout forward and first turn assault.

**quiestdeus**

That would be a very interesting nerf to some DE webway shenanigans, and a huge nerf to genestealers...

Very curious.

**pretre**

It would kill DE Webway lists without a FAQ and is definitely a problem for GS.

**Spidey0804**

I heard something about not being able to named characters as allies...

**pretre**

Spidey0804 wrote:I heard something about not being able to named characters as allies...

That keeps getting shot down, although we'll find out better on Saturday.

**quiestdeus**

On a totally different note - given the hull point changes and the ability to rapidly glance a vehicle to death... do you guys think horde sisters will be more viable, especially given we can take guard blobs?

Looking at the math... assuming you drop 2 rhinos (BSS), 2 immolators (Doms), 2 exorcists and a chimera... you get 555 more points to work with. That's almost 4 more sets of 10 ladies or however many combinations of sisters and infantry platoons.

Think dropping 120+ sister and guard models on the table is a viable 6th strategy?

**pretre**

Not really. You need something to do some actually hurt your opponent and troops aren't good at that.

If you're going to do horde with allies, do like 2 squads of sisters, a couple power blobs of guard, a bunch of heavy weapon squads, 3 retributors with HB, Straken, Kyrinov and Jacobus.

Fearless, furious charge, FNP, +1 Attack 50 man power blob? Don't mind if I do.

**Jancoran**

One nice thing it going to be that i can actually recreate the old DaemonHunters army I used before.

When i got that army, I won it in a sales contest and I decided to play it at Ard Boyz that year, since I have never played Grey Knights before that. I added aN infantry Platoon with LasCannons, in order to force the enemy into my Psycannons. I made it to the second round of Ard Boyz doing that.

Seems like I could do something similar with the Sisters, forcing the enemy into my copious amounts of melta and flamage and it would be like old times.

**pretre**

I used a PCS and 2 IS with my C:WH army, sometimes with a HWS or two. It was pretty effective.

**Evil Lamp 6**

Another thought concerning 6th: Seraphim have become better. With a (potentially) increased charge range, the free strike at I10, and going on the assumption that Seraphim will be able to shoot their Bolt Pistols twice and cause 4d3 template hits from Hand Flamers, as is normal for them, for snapfire when they get assaulted. Thoughts?