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Bomb Squig wrote:Ha so the general consensus is that the Blitza-Bommer is the worst? Aww. I just built mine into a Blitza. That sucks. Lol.

Well, take my opinion on the basis I've yet to play with either 3 - but with the Hull Point system in, it's not going to kill any vehicles - more finish them off, or prepare them to be finished off in your following shooting phase. It's not bad, but I see much more potential in the Dakkajet for killing enemy flyers, and the Burna Bomma for melting all non 3+ save infantry.

Depending on where you look, you'll actually find a rather rotary variety on how people see the planes. Many feel the Blitza-Bomma is the best option. I just don't happen to agree with them at this point

Also!

Here is some theory for you guys to rip apart.
Now that Lootas can snapfire, would this make looted wagons a viable gun platform for them? Here is my tactic.
Buy the basic looted wagon, no upgrades (Cheap!).
Max it out with Lootas, (or maybe a mek or two for repairs?).
Put them somewhere with some cover for the tank, or maybe some friendly models in front to halt the Don't Press Dat! results.
Fire at will!
If you get a 1 on Don't Press Dat! either you'll roll up a bit, or get stopped by models or terrain, and still be able to snap fire.
Cheap effective Loota cover.

What do you guys think?

It would work (somewhat), but the LW still sucks, and will die quickly, especially when people see a ton of Lootas firing from it

BW would be better IMO.

Well, I was looking at it, functionally, less like a mobile gun platform, and more like great cover to keep the lootas from going down to small arms fire. AV11 and 5+ cover (Or 4+ from parking it in ruins) seems like a nice deal for 35 points.

matphat wrote:Well, I was looking at it, functionally, less like a mobile gun platform, and more like great cover to keep the lootas from going down to small arms fire. AV11 and 5+ cover (Or 4+ from parking it in ruins) seems like a nice deal for 35 points.

And then it explodes and kills half the unit...


I'd rather stick them in an ADL or something.

Coming from a game I just played against Blood Angels- well. Flash Gitz are frikkin' amazing. (note: I roll each Git'z shooting individually, so Gets Hot! is per model, not unit). The new Gitfindas rule, ignoring cover? Really, really awesome. And they rolled a every turn for their AP! (in hindsight, that made the Blastas upgrade useless and expensive, but I was playing about 40-50 points down anyways). Basically, the enemy gets nothing but FnP and Invuln saves against these guys, and anyone with 3 T or lower doesnt' even get FnP! The Gitz obliterated an entire 10 man Assault squad by themselves.

Pretty much nothing else did anything that game, however, so yeah.

matphat wrote:

Beer4TheBeerGod wrote:

Leth wrote:Yea but the standard ork had choppas that made the best save possible against it a 4+ so take what you will. For the melta we just have volume of fire weapons

So now I am stuck between meganobz in a battlewagon, or nob bikers

Bikers
+1 toughness
move like bikes
+1 attacks
can get FNP
can get Invul

Meganobz
With same weapon is 30 points cheaper each
2+ save
Can ride in a battle wagon

Nobz are characters. Meganobz are not. That makes it a pretty easy decision.

I'd have to agree. Not only that, but you have to take their 4+ mobile save in to account as well, AND need I say it? "Mobility".

I dunno, multi wound 2+ save power klaws is pretty badass. And I can say, playing against a 5 man termy squad the other day, 2+ saves are a harder nut to crack now for all armies.

matphat wrote:

I'd have to agree. Not only that, but you have to take their 4+ mobile save in to account as well, AND need I say it? "Mobility".

Forgot about the save when I made the list, also forgot about the twin linked shooting. Since I am taking a solar pulse it really becomes a no brainer(I expect that the nob thing will be FAQed since they did it for Space Wolves, and specifically allow it for grey knights so I am not factoring that into my decision)

I sincerely hope they FAQ the Meganobz issue. The character trait is one of the most powerful traits you can give a model, and if they got it I would definitely consider them some more. They are incredibly points efficient for what they can do.

KingCracker wrote:

matphat wrote:

Beer4TheBeerGod wrote:

Leth wrote:Yea but the standard ork had choppas that made the best save possible against it a 4+ so take what you will. For the melta we just have volume of fire weapons

So now I am stuck between meganobz in a battlewagon, or nob bikers

Bikers
+1 toughness
move like bikes
+1 attacks
can get FNP
can get Invul

Meganobz
With same weapon is 30 points cheaper each
2+ save
Can ride in a battle wagon

Nobz are characters. Meganobz are not. That makes it a pretty easy decision.

I'd have to agree. Not only that, but you have to take their 4+ mobile save in to account as well, AND need I say it? "Mobility".

I dunno, multi wound 2+ save power klaws is pretty badass. And I can say, playing against a 5 man termy squad the other day, 2+ saves are a harder nut to crack now for all armies.

Also SaP doesnt actaully slow you down any more, so there not really that immobile

I have found great success running MANZ in 6th as a troop choice. They have yet to be killed off of whatever objective they were trying to hold.... The only problem I have is if i use them as an escort for the mad dok to give them all FNP, and him running amok all over the board like a bulldozer, smashing everything in its way, but "stuck on stupid and running wide open"

Considering running normal nobs and a megaboss up front to use 2+ for whole squad, and let big mek provide BP for MANZ..


Hard to decide for hq's for me now... I want 2 bosses for scoring MANZ and scoring nob bikers, but I also want KFF/hull repair/troop dredd... and even more I want grotsnik for cybork MANZ/kopters/stormboys etc. but doing so makes me take no nobs as troops and get a KFF mek, or have to pick which will be scoring, bikers or MANZ? :(

Id drop the manz, whilst they are much better now, they still have crap leadership and will flee at the loss of two models in most set ups (unless you're running 8+ which is quite expensive). They are also quite slow for what they are compared to nob bikers.

MANZ Pros:
Cheap PK (much slower)
2+
Kills alot of shizzle
Can be scoring unit that is hard to move

Manz Cons:
Screwed by lascannon fire (ID AP2)
No FNP
Slower than bikes
Lose mobility to run (not important but screwed me the other day)
Expensive for low model count compared to others
Costly Grotsnik Inv Save / Have to use KFF for cover save


Nob Biker Pros:
4+ Cover Permanent
Hammer of Wrath
T5
Potential 24 inch charge (12inch move + 2d6)
Can Score
Can rapidly switch board sides (last turn denial)
FNP
Not screwed by lascannons
Inv Save

Nob Biker Cons:
ID by S10
More expensive (more speed)
Dangerous Test on terrain
Takes up big chunk of army and if singled out turn one, can be quite dire.


If i've missed anything let me know But frankly i think this is between Speed / Endurance (MANZ being endurance).
Personally i prefer bikers because they can do much more and you only really need 2 PK's (aim never to kill on turn you charge, kill in opponents turn).

Biker Boss is also T6, which is very hard compared to Megaboss, which can be Instant deathed by S10, and T6 screws most enemy characteres in challenges, unless they are special character like overlord with S5

Also, i think KFF is mandatory for all lists. Especially if running boyz mob (i run 50 shoota's, with other stuff around, like wagon nobz).

As well as this, dont bother with grotsnik, waste. Just stick the MANZ inside a mob of boyz with a KFF joined onto the boyz to keep him alive, and that way the nobz will be safe until they get into combat, with a 2+ save they should be okay, but another good thing about bikers is you dont have to worry about this

So I got in my first game of 6th finally, a 1.5k game against a mate's DE list, as it transpires, this is pretty much what he's taking to Throne of Skulls.

I had more or less the usual:

Gazzy

Megaboss with all the gear

2 x 8 meganobs in wagons

Super kannon wagon

He had:

Homunculus

Two small units of wracks, one in a venom.

Two units of 5 first born, two blasters, three cannons, in double cannon venoms.

Two units of 6 harpies with two haywire blaster things in each.

Two razorwings with the large blast missiles.

Allied farseer (divination), two units of rangers.

Needless to say, it all went horribly wrong, despite seizing the initiative. The firepower on the razorwings is insane. Gazzy's mob was reduced to Gazzy on a single wound in a single turn by them and the homunculus' toughness-test flamer once the first born popped the wagon. The other mob got into combat with the other and then was whittled down before the razor wings finished them off. The super kannon wagon maybe killed a single model due to the cover saves of various stuff.

Is there anything an all-comer ork list can do against this? The anti-infantry and anti-tank fire power is insane (190 points for each first born + venom) and they have more than enough manoeuvrability to never risk combat.

Dribble Joy wrote:So I got in my first game of 6th finally, a 1.5k game against a mate's DE list, as it transpires, this is pretty much what he's taking to Throne of Skulls.

I had more or less the usual:

Gazzy

Megaboss with all the gear

2 x 8 meganobs in wagons

Super kannon wagon

He had:

Homunculus

Two small units of wracks, one in a venom.

Two units of 5 first born, two blasters, three cannons, in double cannon venoms.

Two units of 6 harpies with two haywire blaster things in each.

Two razorwings with the large blast missiles.

Allied farseer (divination), two units of rangers.

Needless to say, it all went horribly wrong, despite seizing the initiative. The firepower on the razorwings is insane. Gazzy's mob was reduced to Gazzy on a single wound in a single turn by them and the homunculus' toughness-test flamer once the first born popped the wagon. The other mob got into combat with the other and then was whittled down before the razor wings finished them off. The super kannon wagon maybe killed a single model due to the cover saves of various stuff.

Is there anything an all-comer ork list can do against this? The anti-infantry and anti-tank fire power is insane (190 points for each first born + venom) and they have more than enough manoeuvrability to never risk combat.

At 1500 points, you had 19 models on the field...

1) We're not Grey Knights. At 1.5k, I have 95 models (6 are kanz, 2 are dakkajets) on the field.

2) I suggest getting another wagon, leaving 1 squad in the open is baaaad against shooty things. You need to shield them both. 2 deadly/hard to crack targets are better than 1 hard to crack/deadly + 1 unit left in the open to die.

Dr. What wrote:At 1500 points, you had 19 models on the field...

1) We're not Grey Knights. At 1.5k, I have 95 models (6 are kanz, 2 are dakkajets) on the field.

2) I suggest getting another wagon, leaving 1 squad in the open is baaaad against shooty things. You need to shield them both. 2 deadly/hard to crack targets are better than 1 hard to crack/deadly + 1 unit left in the open to die.

I'm aware that my list is not that viable, it's fun and fluffy, but I usually do OK with it.

I didn't have one unit on foot, they were in a wagon too. It got vaped from under them in turn two by blasters from one of the first born squads.

As for regular ork armies, that's kinda what I'm asking; the amount of anti-infantry firepower in the list is eye-watering, 95 models would be dead in three turns, four if you're lucky. What can orks do against this type of force at all?

The dakkajet isn't the answer, as you can elect to angle to flier when it comes on so that it's minimum move takes it off the board and automatically arrive next turn, which is what he said he would do if a dakkjet turned up. He then either rinces the dakkajet or does the same thing again if you do it. Quadguns are pointless as he has so much poisoned to make the T7/3+ redundant. Lootas will be mown down after their wagon is taken out by blasters/haywire/dark lances. Boys will be gunned down in their dozens. Patch finders sit in ruins with their 2+ cover.

The Harpies are Scourges, i think. Fast attack winged DE with antitank guns = Scourges.

Harpies are a Tyranid MC

The Razorwings are less insane now that you can only fire 2 missiles a turn. In 5th they could fire 4, plus disintegrators/lances, plus nose gun.

Dribble Joy wrote:So I got in my first game of 6th finally, a 1.5k game against a mate's DE list, as it transpires, this is pretty much what he's taking to Throne of Skulls.

I had more or less the usual:

Gazzy

Megaboss with all the gear

2 x 8 meganobs in wagons

Super kannon wagon

He had:

Homunculus

Two small units of wracks, one in a venom.

Two units of 5 first born, two blasters, three cannons, in double cannon venoms.

Two units of 6 harpies with two haywire blaster things in each.

Two razorwings with the large blast missiles.

Allied farseer (divination), two units of rangers.

Needless to say, it all went horribly wrong, despite seizing the initiative. The firepower on the razorwings is insane. Gazzy's mob was reduced to Gazzy on a single wound in a single turn by them and the homunculus' toughness-test flamer once the first born popped the wagon. The other mob got into combat with the other and then was whittled down before the razor wings finished them off. The super kannon wagon maybe killed a single model due to the cover saves of various stuff.

Is there anything an all-comer ork list can do against this? The anti-infantry and anti-tank fire power is insane (190 points for each first born + venom) and they have more than enough manoeuvrability to never risk combat.

I loooooove Ghazzy, but he's pretty much dead in this edition.

What's that bit in the first post about the Boss being able to re roll dice in a challenge if it's got Boyz watching? Where is that stated?

Well, since Weirdboys have been brought up, what does everybody think about Old Zogwort?

Bede19025 wrote:What's that bit in the first post about the Boss being able to re roll dice in a challenge if it's got Boyz watching? Where is that stated?

In challenges for every 5 of your own guys watching, you get a reroll to either reroll to hit, to wound, or to do an armor save

Since orks have a lot of boyz, you'll probably get a few rerolls as long as nothing terrible happens to your orks

kenshin620 wrote:

Bede19025 wrote:What's that bit in the first post about the Boss being able to re roll dice in a challenge if it's got Boyz watching? Where is that stated?

In challenges for every 5 of your own guys watching, you get a reroll to either reroll to hit, to wound, or to do an armor save

Since orks have a lot of boyz, you'll probably get a few rerolls as long as nothing terrible happens to your orks

Only thing you need to remember is that it has to be one lone character by himself facing off against your entire horde.

So say you ran into an emperor's champion all by himself, and you charged your warboss in with 30 boyz as backup and challenged the champion with your boss, he HAS to accept. Then, the boss and the champion must duke it out, one on one. The boyz can do nothing but stand and cheer the boss on, and that's where the rerolls come from. In this case, you would get 6 rerolls for to hits, to wounds, and saves.

However, say his champion had a 10 man terminator unit with him, you could not use the "get him boss!" rule, as it specifically says it has to be 1 vs1 with the enemy unit completely alone.

You'll probably only get to use it in a few special circumstances, like fighting MC's or a guy like marbo who appears out of nowhere by himself. Other than that, you won't get to use it much. Which is a shame, because it's such a cool rule.

Ignore this, my bad.

Dr. What wrote:

Dribble Joy wrote:So I got in my first game of 6th finally, a 1.5k game against a mate's DE list, as it transpires, this is pretty much what he's taking to Throne of Skulls.

I had more or less the usual:

Gazzy

Megaboss with all the gear

2 x 8 meganobs in wagons

Super kannon wagon

He had:

Homunculus

Two small units of wracks, one in a venom.

Two units of 5 first born, two blasters, three cannons, in double cannon venoms.

Two units of 6 harpies with two haywire blaster things in each.

Two razorwings with the large blast missiles.

Allied farseer (divination), two units of rangers.

Needless to say, it all went horribly wrong, despite seizing the initiative. The firepower on the razorwings is insane. Gazzy's mob was reduced to Gazzy on a single wound in a single turn by them and the homunculus' toughness-test flamer once the first born popped the wagon. The other mob got into combat with the other and then was whittled down before the razor wings finished them off. The super kannon wagon maybe killed a single model due to the cover saves of various stuff.

Is there anything an all-comer ork list can do against this? The anti-infantry and anti-tank fire power is insane (190 points for each first born + venom) and they have more than enough manoeuvrability to never risk combat.

At 1500 points, you had 19 models on the field...

1) We're not Grey Knights. At 1.5k, I have 95 models (6 are kanz, 2 are dakkajets) on the field.

2) I suggest getting another wagon, leaving 1 squad in the open is baaaad against shooty things. You need to shield them both. 2 deadly/hard to crack targets are better than 1 hard to crack/deadly + 1 unit left in the open to die.

This. I'm not an expert, but that list is just ASKING to be wiped by anyone not also taking a "super fluffy" list. That list actually made me wonder if you were trolling for a second. I think it's an awesome thematic list, don't get me wrong, but it's not going to win you any games. Orks need bodies on the field to survive games.

Dr. What wrote:Well, since Weirdboys have been brought up, what does everybody think about Old Zogwort?

He is as awesome as ever, plus (unlike regular warpheads) no one would dare to challenge him in close combat. The trukkload of I4 attacks wounding on 2+ he dishes out is trouble to anything not wearing MA or TDA


Automatically Appended Next Post:

matphat wrote:This. I'm not an expert, but that list is just ASKING to be wiped by anyone not also taking a "super fluffy" list. That list actually made me wonder if you were trolling for a second. I think it's an awesome thematic list, don't get me wrong, but it's not going to win you any games. Orks need bodies on the field to survive games.

Considering his avatar, he is probably dead serious about this.

Deffwing is more viable in 6th than ever, but that still doesn't make it a great army. Keep in mind that draigo wing brings something in addition to paladins, too, so deff wing should be backed by kannons (or more supa-kannons). lootaz or maybe a pair of planes. I also would drop Ghazzy, as he really doesn't add much to your army for his cost - you can't even run with your Manz :|

It quickly became apparent that the army was going to get minced in short order. My complete inability to roll sixes for my snap shots against the venoms (4 BS and 9 TL-shootas took the best part of three turns do down one) or covers saves only made things worse.

I'm highly reluctant to include anything that isn't a wagon or in mega armour for the sake of the theme of the list, though I am entirely aware of the serious limitations this imposes on the viability of the army.

I'm thinking I might drop Gazzy down to a megaboss, split the meganobs down into three units of six, by them a wagon and then swap the super kannon for something like a 4RL/kannon wagon.

But like I said; I wonder what a normal ork force could do against it, I really don't think they could get into combat fast enough or in sufficient strength before getting tabled.

Unsure, haven't played against dark eldar all that much, but both dakka jets and burna bommers are pretty awesome against about almost anything they can field.

Dribble Joy wrote:

Needless to say, it all went horribly wrong, despite seizing the initiative. The firepower on the razorwings is insane. Gazzy's mob was reduced to Gazzy on a single wound in a single turn by them and the homunculus' toughness-test flamer once the first born popped the wagon. The other mob got into combat with the other and then was whittled down before the razor wings finished them off. The super kannon wagon maybe killed a single model due to the cover saves of various stuff.

Is there anything an all-comer ork list can do against this? The anti-infantry and anti-tank fire power is insane (190 points for each first born + venom) and they have more than enough manoeuvrability to never risk combat.

Nob Bikers can't be instant death'ed against S8, and they have a 4+ cover save no matter what with a 5+ FNP, so that would help you out.

2+ may be better in CC now but it didn't get any better against shooting, so if a Deldar or IG or SM stacks tons of Lascannon or Dark Lances your MANz aren't going to do super awesome. It doesn't help that Ghazghkull is going to be wounded on 2's and only have a 5+ invul with no Feel No Pain. Then you have the other fun thing which is that Dark Lances count as AV12 against your Battlewagons.

SoooOOoo. I would suggest - Biker Nobs and a Bikah Boss!

Jidah looks to have figured some things out as far as shooting, particularly shooting fliers. He came up with a dual BS3 TL Autocannon Aegis Defense Line for Grots that also has Skyfire, so that's pretty excellent against fliers.

I played two games of 40k that had necrons with ork allies. Both were bike based contingents. I won both, however in the second game the nob bikers unit with warboss against chaos demons was really REALLY good. They just ate through anything that landed I was thinking of upgrading everyone to having big choppas with one of them having a claw. With the wagghh banner it was just the number of attacks was staggering. With cybork body and FNP the unit took two wounds all game.

Also took Dakkajet in both games and it has maintained a 1:1 kill ratio so far. One round of shooting one dead whatever(usually vehicles or MCs)

So what does everyone feel about Defkopta's (specifically 5 with Kustom Mega Blastas)?

Every turn you should get at least 1 hit, and with Ap2 being the magical +1 to vehicle damage rolls they are looking like some of the best range vehicle killers in our book.

Was thinking of running this list:

Sonz of Anarchy
HQ - 320
Wazdakka Gutsmek (180)

Warboss (140)
power klaw; warbike; cybork body; bosspole.

Troops - 815
5 Warbikers (165)
Nob (power klaw; bosspole).

5 Warbikers (165)
Nob (power klaw; bosspole).

5 Warbikers (165)
Nob (power klaw; bosspole).

4 Nobz (320)
Painboy; 3× power klaw; 3× slugga; Waaagh! banner; warbikes; cybork bodies.

Fast Attack - 400
5 Deffkoptas (200)
5× Kustom Mega-Blasta.

5 Deffkoptas (200)
5× Kustom Mega-Blasta.

Heavy Support - 465
3 Big Gunz (78)
6× additional Grot Krew.

3 Big Gunz (78)
6× additional Grot Krew.

3 Big Gunz (78)
6× additional Grot Krew.

3 Big Gunz (78)
6× additional Grot Krew.

3 Big Gunz (78)
6× additional Grot Krew.

3 Big Gunz (75)
5× additional Grot Krew.

2,000 points

Don't know if anyone brought this up, but i'm soo pissed to the 6th edition profile for Big choppas ( ST+2 AP -) ... a 2h weapon without AP? c'mon...

And what about Tankbusta Bombs? are they throwable? and if so, witch profile they have?

Probably i've missed something, prove me wrong