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And better leadership, a close combat weapon as well as a pistol and a rifle, a second special weapon option, an icon both enhancing our ability to win rather than run away (+1A, +1I, +1T, 5+ Invulnerable, or re-roll Morale) and providing point-perfect deep strikes from which Daemons can run and then launch an assault, as well as the ability to upgrade the Champion to a Greater Daemon.

Jayden63 wrote:Sternguard will be the cheese of the list. Too damn powerful. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if you had to choose one ammo type at the beginning of the game and had to stick with it, but the fact you can change off each shooting phase is pure BS. Completely broken, a bargain at twice the cost.

1W models with 3+ saves on foot for 50 points each would be a bargain? Congratulations, you win the Absurd Exaggeration of the Day Award.

A couple of questions about the Sternguard:

1) What kind of special/heavy weapons options do they get if any? Do they function like the tactical squad, meaning if you take a full 10 man squad they get x special weapon and y heavy weapon for free? If not what are the point cost for the weapons allowed?

2) Does the sternguard have a "Sgt?" If so what options are available for him and at what point cost?

I so want to do a "count as" deathwatch army using Kantor and the sternguard!

Thanks,
Chappy P!

But they could drop pod in next to a unit and give whatever unit that is a really bad day. Then die, but it'll still be cool.

Danny Internets wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:Sternguard will be the cheese of the list. Too damn powerful. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if you had to choose one ammo type at the beginning of the game and had to stick with it, but the fact you can change off each shooting phase is pure BS. Completely broken, a bargain at twice the cost.

1W models with 3+ saves on foot for 50 points each would be a bargain? Congratulations, you win the Absurd Exaggeration of the Day Award.

Why are they on foot. Drop Pods for everybody. Need to kill orks in a KKF, use the no cover save, need to kill Wraithlords, use the wound on a 2+. Need to kill normal marines use the AP3. Need to shoot far away or knock down trukks and raiders, just borrow the S5 long range shots that used to be the trick of the Firewarrior.

These guys may not exactly kill their points back, but they sure as hell will disrupt the enemy by just showing up that they are worth twice their price. The only place these guys seem lacking is in the HTH department, but good bloody luck getting anyone close enough to charge them if the SM player has even half a tactical brain. These guys are the ultimate clean up unit. If played that way, they could easily make their points back. If each one vaporizes two marines over the course of the game or knocks out a few transports those are points easily made up.

Chaplain Pallantide wrote:A couple of questions about the Sternguard:

1) What kind of special/heavy weapons options do they get if any? Do they function like the tactical squad, meaning if you take a full 10 man squad they get x special weapon and y heavy weapon for free? If not what are the point cost for the weapons allowed?

2) Does the sternguard have a "Sgt?" If so what options are available for him and at what point cost?

I so want to do a "count as" deathwatch army using Kantor and the sternguard!

Thanks,
Chappy P!

they are NOT deathwatch dey ARE tyranit hunters

Seeing that Deathwatch is under the branch of Ordo Xenos the comparison between the two is apt.

G

Alpharius wrote:You mean the squad that will cost near 300 points or more when fully tricked out?

heh. Fully kitted out, you're looking at over twice that much. Not that they are worth it. Neat stuff, but far too pricey to be used in normal games, IMO.

quietus86 wrote:

Chaplain Pallantide wrote:A couple of questions about the Sternguard:

1) What kind of special/heavy weapons options do they get if any? Do they function like the tactical squad, meaning if you take a full 10 man squad they get x special weapon and y heavy weapon for free? If not what are the point cost for the weapons allowed?

2) Does the sternguard have a "Sgt?" If so what options are available for him and at what point cost?

I so want to do a "count as" deathwatch army using Kantor and the sternguard!

Thanks,
Chappy P!

they are NOT deathwatch dey ARE tyranit hunters

And the 'counts as' fluff nazi has come out of the closet and reared its ugly head.
Seriously Quietus, pull the wool over your own eyes. Dictating to someone how they should imagine their army is rather uncouth.

the deathwatcht pdf is still 100% leagal no change stil la hq chose and way more options than steurngaurd the shop army still has deathwatch and don't forget deathwatch is usebal in evry army so even IG can use them
deathwatch can have librarians or a captain ( a hq ) and veterans so hq and retunie so a hq choese sternguard are elite vetarans normal.
had this discution at our local gw cosse the shop juist ordert deathwatch for there shop army.

I can see wie peaple wanit to use them to make a deathwatch army I was planig to take a captain death wacht and 3 tyranit hunters to represant a nid hunter army
( deathwatch army ) but that dos not mean day replaced them meens that evry chapter now has peaple go served the deathwatch

Jayden63 wrote:Why are they on foot. Drop Pods for everybody. Need to kill orks in a KKF, use the no cover save, need to kill Wraithlords, use the wound on a 2+. Need to kill normal marines use the AP3. Need to shoot far away or knock down trukks and raiders, just borrow the S5 long range shots that used to be the trick of the Firewarrior.

These guys may not exactly kill their points back, but they sure as hell will disrupt the enemy by just showing up that they are worth twice their price. The only place these guys seem lacking is in the HTH department, but good bloody luck getting anyone close enough to charge them if the SM player has even half a tactical brain. These guys are the ultimate clean up unit. If played that way, they could easily make their points back. If each one vaporizes two marines over the course of the game or knocks out a few transports those are points easily made up.

Did I miss the part about them getting a free Rhino/Drop Pod? At 25 (or 50, as in your exaggeration) points each they ARE on foot. If you want a transport you pay even more points. Why would you expect something else?

And I honestly cannot believe you are honestly trying to justify an argument saying that Sternguard should cost more than 50 points each. I know people tend to get irrationally filled with ire and outrage whenever any Space Marine news is released/leaked, but, come on, let's not go overboard.

Hey Thanks Hellfury, I couldn't have said it better myself. I guess someone forgot to read the whole "COUNT AS" part of my post. I guess the fluff Nazi's will be coming out, but if they are going to be TFG, then I wouldn't want to play them anyway.

Plus I think Sternguard would represent the Deathwatch quite well, especially seeing how well armed they are and how the various bolter rounds they can choose from would help in the hunting of the Xenos, The Daemon and the Psycher...

Hopefully someone will be kind enough to answer my previous questions as I won't be able to get to my LGS anytime soon.

Oh does someone have the point cost for Kantor?

Thanks,
Chappy P!

quietus86 wrote:the deathwatcht pdf is still 100% leagal no change stil la hq chose and way more options than steurngaurd the shop army still has deathwatch and don't forget deathwatch is usebal in evry army so even IG can use them
deathwatch can have librarians or a captain ( a hq ) and veterans so hq and retunie so a hq choese sternguard are elite vetarans normal.
had this discution at our local gw cosse the shop juist ordert deathwatch for there shop army.

I can see wie peaple wanit to use them to make a deathwatch army I was planig to take a captain death wacht and 3 tyranit hunters to represant a nid hunter army
( deathwatch army ) but that dos not mean day replaced them meens that evry chapter now has peaple go served the deathwatch

I wish babelfish could help me understand what you just typed. But alas, even bablefish has its limitations.

Hellfury wrote:

quietus86 wrote:the deathwatcht pdf is still 100% leagal no change stil la hq chose and way more options than steurngaurd the shop army still has deathwatch and don't forget deathwatch is usebal in evry army so even IG can use them
deathwatch can have librarians or a captain ( a hq ) and veterans so hq and retunie so a hq choese sternguard are elite vetarans normal.
had this discution at our local gw cosse the shop juist ordert deathwatch for there shop army.

I can see wie peaple wanit to use them to make a deathwatch army I was planig to take a captain death wacht and 3 tyranit hunters to represant a nid hunter army
( deathwatch army ) but that dos not mean day replaced them meens that evry chapter now has peaple go served the deathwatch

I wish babelfish could help me understand what you just typed. But alas, even bablefish has its limitations.

His signature;

"sorry for my spelling but I em deslectic"

Which, considering how badly the very explanation of his dyslexia is structured...that's either good satire or truth .

We got our advance copy here in the store yesterday, I'm sure it will be a very popular item for tonight's Apoc Game and Black Reach Release Party.

Danny Internets wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:Why are they on foot. Drop Pods for everybody. Need to kill orks in a KKF, use the no cover save, need to kill Wraithlords, use the wound on a 2+. Need to kill normal marines use the AP3. Need to shoot far away or knock down trukks and raiders, just borrow the S5 long range shots that used to be the trick of the Firewarrior.

These guys may not exactly kill their points back, but they sure as hell will disrupt the enemy by just showing up that they are worth twice their price. The only place these guys seem lacking is in the HTH department, but good bloody luck getting anyone close enough to charge them if the SM player has even half a tactical brain. These guys are the ultimate clean up unit. If played that way, they could easily make their points back. If each one vaporizes two marines over the course of the game or knocks out a few transports those are points easily made up.

Did I miss the part about them getting a free Rhino/Drop Pod? At 25 (or 50, as in your exaggeration) points each they ARE on foot. If you want a transport you pay even more points. Why would you expect something else?

And I honestly cannot believe you are honestly trying to justify an argument saying that Sternguard should cost more than 50 points each. I know people tend to get irrationally filled with ire and outrage whenever any Space Marine news is released/leaked, but, come on, let's not go overboard.

We must be getting some wires crossed. I'm not actually saying that they should cost 50 points. "A bargain at twice the price" is just a saying that represents that something is too cheep. I personally think that 30 points is about right for something with that much versility and firepower output. Even at 25 point you will see a Sternguard unit in any game over 1000 points. They are just too good to not take, and present no risk at all to the rest of your army composition. Just because they can get a bunch of fancy toys and get stupidly over expensive, doesn't mean people will take all of the upgrades. Their bolter rounds alone are worth the price upgrade, and a unit with no specials will still own whatever part of the battlefield they are protecting.

blinky wrote:

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:

Marines are still 15 pts.

Ah, I see. So for the same price as chaos marines, they get ATSKNF, combat tactics, more weapon options and the like? Oh never mind, we have our generic daemons.

Agreed. I honestly cant stand how GW makes SM so flipping overpowered ever single edition/update. A Free Apoth that give your command squad FNP?? Jesus.

jp400 wrote:

blinky wrote:

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:

Marines are still 15 pts.

Ah, I see. So for the same price as chaos marines, they get ATSKNF, combat tactics, more weapon options and the like? Oh never mind, we have our generic daemons.

Agreed. I honestly cant stand how GW makes SM so flipping overpowered ever single edition/update. A Free Apoth that give your command squad FNP?? Jesus.

You've got to be kidding!

MARINES, overpowered every single edition?

Er, no.

I can't wait until 6 months or so after this Codex is released.

We won't be hearing a peep about 'overpowered Marines' I'd bet...

All the razorback upgrades are the same except for the t-l heavy flamer: +35. The basic razorback is a steal.

The Mortis pattern dreads (two t-l autocannons or two misslelauchers) are available. Ironclads are sick with additonal attack, a "seismic hammer", AV13, and the option for two heavy flamers.

It looks really good. It just makes no sense to me that a CAPTAIN has an Iron Halo and WS 6?

jp400 wrote:

blinky wrote:

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:

Marines are still 15 pts.

Ah, I see. So for the same price as chaos marines, they get ATSKNF, combat tactics, more weapon options and the like? Oh never mind, we have our generic daemons.

Agreed. I honestly cant stand how GW makes SM so flipping overpowered ever single edition/update. A Free Apoth that give your command squad FNP?? Jesus.

A lot of toys and overpowered is not the same thing. I'm sure that there will be plenty of cost vs benefit analysis of the new codex in the coming days that will allay any fears you have.

Jayden63 wrote:

Danny Internets wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:Sternguard will be the cheese of the list. Too damn powerful. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if you had to choose one ammo type at the beginning of the game and had to stick with it, but the fact you can change off each shooting phase is pure BS. Completely broken, a bargain at twice the cost.

1W models with 3+ saves on foot for 50 points each would be a bargain? Congratulations, you win the Absurd Exaggeration of the Day Award.

Why are they on foot. Drop Pods for everybody. Need to kill orks in a KKF, use the no cover save, need to kill Wraithlords, use the wound on a 2+. Need to kill normal marines use the AP3. Need to shoot far away or knock down trukks and raiders, just borrow the S5 long range shots that used to be the trick of the Firewarrior.

These guys may not exactly kill their points back, but they sure as hell will disrupt the enemy by just showing up that they are worth twice their price. The only place these guys seem lacking is in the HTH department, but good bloody luck getting anyone close enough to charge them if the SM player has even half a tactical brain. These guys are the ultimate clean up unit. If played that way, they could easily make their points back. If each one vaporizes two marines over the course of the game or knocks out a few transports those are points easily made up.

We do not know whether or not they DO get the option for taking a pod. That is pure speculation they can take a transport, so why dont we wait for some confirmation.

As for them being "ubserd!", I see where they could have their uses, but they are still just marines with bolters. They have limited range, and have this problem with high strength, ap killing weapons like the regular marines. Treat them like you would a monolith, avoid them and stick to cover and you are golden.

As a BA player Im a bit peeved, not getting combat tactics will be a kick in the junk, and not getting a redeemer will be a tragic loss. But with OCE, and a highly mobile force in an edition that is made or broken by being quick to exploit an opening, I would rather take my furioso DC ven dread in a pod dropping behind your sternguard, flaming their ass and then blowing the hell out of them in CC.

Chaplain Pallantide wrote:A couple of questions about the Sternguard:

1) What kind of special/heavy weapons options do they get if any? Do they function like the tactical squad, meaning if you take a full 10 man squad they get x special weapon and y heavy weapon for free? If not what are the point cost for the weapons allowed?

IIRC, they start out at 5 men and you can get more. They do not get heavy and special weapons for free. As many have mentioned previously, any Sternguard with a bolter can be upgraded to a combi-bolter. Two Sternguard can be given special weapons - plasma, melta, or flamer. I can't remember what the points costs were (I'm thinking it was something along the lines of like 12, 10, 5, but I could be off - I wasn't paying much attention to their points.) And unfortunately, I can't remember what their heavy options were - my bad.

Chaplain Pallantide wrote:2) Does the sternguard have a "Sgt?" If so what options are available for him and at what point cost?

Sternguard do have a Sgt - he can get pretty much most of the standard Sgt stuff - combi-weapons, power weapons, power fist, meltabombs, typical stuff. Again, can't remember the points costs - sorry.

You also asked about the points cost for Kantor - he was definitely under 200...I'm thinking he was on the range of 125, but I'm not positive about that.

Death By Monkeys wrote:

You also asked about the points cost for Kantor - he was definitely under 200...I'm thinking he was on the range of 125, but I'm not positive about that.

This makes my day.

if kantor is 125 or even as little as 150, for what he is mentioned to have, that is ridiculious.

Thanks DBM, I appreciate your help! (by the way how's your tanith army coming along?)

Lormax wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

derling wrote:a lower Leadership attribute

Loyalists get a Ld9 srg standard.

And CSM are Ld10 standard, are they not?

No, in fact. Ld9. You'd have to pay an additional 15 points to upgrade one of them to a Champion to get Ld10, and you still won't have ATSKNF, Combat Tactics, free weapons for taking 10 men, or the ability to split into two separate squads.

But, as people have stated, at least CSMs still get Bolter + BP + CCW.

Nurglitch wrote:an icon both enhancing our ability to win rather than run away (+1A, +1I, +1T, 5+ Invulnerable, or re-roll Morale)

Which will run you an additional 10 to 50 points, depending on the icon, and can be shot right out of the squad like any other upgrade model, losing you any benefits it gave. Apparently, if they don't keep waving it around, the Chaos Gods forget who they were favouring.

Nurglitch wrote:and providing point-perfect deep strikes from which Daemons can run and then launch an assault

Unless you're unfortunate enough to make your required reserve rolls for those daemons to come in earlier than you want them to, in which case, they're just point-perfect targets for your opponent.

mothman_451 wrote:if kantor is 125 or even as little as 150, for what he is mentioned to have, that is ridiculious.

GW webstore has him up now: Crimson Fists Pedro Kantor

He's got the same statline as a normal Chapter Master. He has some great rules, sure, but I think he's fairly priced at 125-175. I'm a bit biased though.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:Why would I use my C: DA anymore?

Because Jervis is a genius and you love the Dark Angels codex with all of your body (including your peepee)?

There wasnt much justification to use it to begin with?

What are the options for the dreads?
They seem to have more stuff to arm them with...

Greets
Schepp himself

Looking at the pic..

One on arm
Twin linked Heavy Flamer
Twin linked Heavy Bolter
Twin linked Autocannon
Twin linked Lascannon
Plasma or Assault Cannon

Replace Dread CC wpn with
Twin-Linked Autocannon or Missle Launcher

Replace Storm Bolter with
Heavy Flamer

Digital Weapons?

Ha!

Yeah, that humongous list of options in the unit entry is so much nicer than an Armory List...

And hopefully seeing the points cost on all this stuff can enable some people to calm the down now.