Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What with Stormtroopers being confirmed by one half, unconfirmed byt the other and slated for 2nd wave by reds8n, seems they'll be very good in the codex.

Imagine, they'll be cheaper or able to take cheap speacial weapons. The Valk, maybe for not ludicrous points.
Everyone will want them. GW will sell a lot of the metal boxes so people can play them right after the codex comes out.
Then Bam! One year later the 2nd wave comes out with a brand new spiffy plastic kit.

Maybe I'm just sad cos I bought two boxes of the old Stormboyz after the Ork codex came out only to hear weeks later the rumours of plastics. Plastics that won't keep falling over from being top heavy half metal failures.

Still though, thanks for the rumours guys. The GW machine keeps on churning out stuff I want to buy, so their doing something right.

aka_mythos wrote:I think vets should be more like the last chancers, where everyone can take something if they want, just drop the whole pay to gain the option of paying again for something. I think it'd be more interesting to run with the idea that a veteran squad is effectively the remnants of a platoon that went through the grinder. 50 went in 10 came out, and those 10 are carrying all the guns. Possibly with a Lt. still leading them, the unit becomes more distinct than stormtroopers.

yeeah boy!!

BrookM wrote: You can probably expect the stock drop trooper character, infiltration character, mechanized character and some sort of fancy git that allows for something completely new and not seen before.

Stock?

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but thats happened in all of one codex?

Thats hardly a "stock" ability. Even if its confirmed for Imperial guard then at best its an "Imperial Stock". And even then, Characters changing army layout..how is that a bad thing. It adds *shockhorrow* Character to the special characters. And its no different to the stock "Leader, fighty guy, fast guy, psychic guy, random guy" thing, only adds variation to the armys you'll see at tournaments.

I say bring on the army changing characters!

From now on Kharn the Betrayer gives all troop choices with a Mark of Khorne a Chainaxe (as they DAMN well should have anyway)

Edit: Good luck to you Imperial Guard Players. God knows you need something to promote you from "Space marine meatshields" to "Heroes of the Imperium"

I think a lot of the issues people have with special characters being tied to a particular army list style isn't as bad as people make out. In the marine codex, there are character who lend themselves to particular armies, but there are only a few instances where they change the armies actual composition.

Pedro, allows sternguard to count as scoring, but it doesn't change the foc of sternguard. Calgar allows multiple units of honor guard. The standard captain, allows bikes to be taken as troops, if he himself takes a bike. The master of the forge allows double the dreadnoughts which are kinda broken cost wise. Other than those isn't it all just a couple of abilities that affect either individual squads or require a very specific army tailoring.

Now I will say, more than there was with marines, I do see a risk of special character being taken too far. With IG there are fewer ways of justifying significant special rules in ways outside of gear, so their exists the risk that the game designers may decide to tie those rules to special charcters instead of units.

I'm inclined to say GW won't do that. We may see special characters who really shine with a particular play style, but is that ever not the case other than when the characters poorly written?

I'm just hoping that the IG for once will be made into a codex that armies will respect.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Guard Codex. It'll be the big release. Personally I'm hugley excited about that. 6 Valks transporting 6 full squads of Karskin. Apoc just got a whole lot more fun, and our big Apoc scenario - Thunderhawk Down - just got a whole lot easier (and cheaper!)!!!

BYE

I have been playing a Inquisitorial-Guard army in APOC since its release. 120 Kasrkin models, 3 FW Valks, 3 Vultures, Veterans, Carapace, etc. It is a solid example of a cool niche army. I'm writing this hoping to align all the valkyrie-wishers expectations before you spend your money.

This army looks beautiful, satisfies my need for an air-cav 40K visual, but in no way should be confused as a very effective fighting force on the APOC table top. Simply not enough firepower. When 'guard infantry go mobile they lose a lot of their heavy-weapon punch, and what with all the super heavies glowering about you need those heavy weapons.

After I get over the cost delta of buying, building, and commissioning the resin flyers and metal troopers in this army vs the projected cost of the new plastics, my only hope will be that the new IG codex finds a way in practiceto make the Valk usable in a non-APOC game of 40K, so at least I can expand the games I can use & enjoy the army.

From what I've heard the Valkyrie will count as a fast skimmer in regular 40k with the new Guard codex, as a flyer in Apocalypse and will get new flying rules when Planet Strike is released, which will most likely just replace the current Apocalypse flyer rules.

And knowing GW, they will most likely give their plastic Valkyrie kits some extra tasties to make it look better in comparison to the FW version.

Just the fact that it's plastic and the pieces fit together is reason enough to get the new GW one over the FW one

Khor'Ghurneth wrote:

BrookM wrote: You can probably expect the stock drop trooper character, infiltration character, mechanized character and some sort of fancy git that allows for something completely new and not seen before.

Stock?

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but thats happened in all of one codex?

Thats hardly a "stock" ability. Even if its confirmed for Imperial guard then at best its an "Imperial Stock". And even then, Characters changing army layout..how is that a bad thing. It adds *shockhorrow* Character to the special characters. And its no different to the stock "Leader, fighty guy, fast guy, psychic guy, random guy" thing, only adds variation to the armys you'll see at tournaments.

I say bring on the army changing characters!

From now on Kharn the Betrayer gives all troop choices with a Mark of Khorne a Chainaxe (as they DAMN well should have anyway)

Edit: Good luck to you Imperial Guard Players. God knows you need something to promote you from "Space marine meatshields" to "Heroes of the Imperium"

That "stock" ability is the present basis of a hefty chunk of our codex - the doctrine system. You can have an army of drop troopers, or an army of infiltrators or a mechanised army in your overpriced Chimeras.

However, following the present trend of many codices, we're going to wind up with a special character which does the same thing as the doctrine did - a Captain Gren O'Dear who lets you count 0-3 storm trooper squads as a troops choice, a Major Perry Schute who lets your infantry deep strike, a Colonel Horatio P. Boardedge who gives infantry the infiltrate ability - yadda yadda yadda on down the line for all the things that you used to be able to do with doctrines.

New codex though? HEROHAMMER, in the grim dark and heroic future of the 41st milennium. With each of these special characters, there will be a new metal model attached (at best), or will no longer be able to use the old doctrine rules.

What was does with general before will now be done specifically, and while this might work for mighty Ultramarines (three special characters, 1000 blokes), it doesn't work at all for the Guard, who are general by nature. There are 450 regiments of Cadian shock troops - not all of them are going to have Creed and Kell. There is one legion of Ultramarines (and about a million of their cousins); you can get away with including one special character per army.

BrookM wrote:From what I've heard the Valkyrie will count as a fast skimmer in regular 40k with the new Guard codex, as a flyer in Apocalypse

Yup. But the best is that it will be plastic instead of resin, making it affordable and enjoyable!

Let's not forget that the Ork codex functioned a bit like the spess marines new codex does. Take a warboss HQ, well, nob troops! etc.
Herohammer is fine and dandy with Orks, because it just changes the FOC a little bit. Herohammer is just fine (well, mostly just fine) with spess marines because their heroes are and should be defining members of their army. That just isn't the case with IG! We have a cool system that lets us pick and choose the way we want our armies to be built because the IG is the largest and most variable amry in the universe, plain and simple. If we want the have tunneling jungle fighters we can have them! Parachuting cyborg conscripts on drugs? Sure can! The reason I play guard is because of these wacky shinagins and If they take my flexability away there will be a very nicely painted army on ebay and a sad, sad player looking tentatively towards a new necron codex.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

BrookM wrote:From what I've heard the Valkyrie will count as a fast skimmer in regular 40k with the new Guard codex, as a flyer in Apocalypse

Yup. But the best is that it will be plastic instead of resin, making it affordable and enjoyable!

I just hope they're the size of Falcons or Hammerheads. The FW Valk was a bit too big for my tastes.

If shrinking the kit a bit helps bring the price down, I'm good with that!

Raxor wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

BrookM wrote:From what I've heard the Valkyrie will count as a fast skimmer in regular 40k with the new Guard codex, as a flyer in Apocalypse

Yup. But the best is that it will be plastic instead of resin, making it affordable and enjoyable!

I just hope they're the size of Falcons or Hammerheads. The FW Valk was a bit too big for my tastes.

Take it down a notch in size? Hell no man! If you want something a tad smaller go with the Arvus Lighter

There will be special characters but the ones that have a major effect on the force org chart will be standard characters. Like tank commanders, infantry commanders, and artillery commanders for sure which will determine what you can attach to your platoon. More like the ork hqs that effect the force org than the marine super characters.

If we want the have tunneling jungle fighters we can have them! Parachuting cyborg conscripts on drugs? Sure can!

Amen to that! I love that aspect of the IG. Back in the day, the concept of IG was an army consisting of units from lots of different planets. So you had cadians, catachans, valhallans and mordian units all in the same army. It looked terrible with all the different colors in the army, but it was meant to represent the fact that the IG was almost infinetly varried.

Hopefully we see some old school IG units come back, as we have seen with Eldar, Marines, and Orks. I highly doubt it, but if we could get some Beastmen units back, or electro priests, that would be so cool. Or even penal legions with exploding neck collars!

I love that old crazy stuff they used to have. But in reality, I will be satisfied with the nex dex if they properly adjust points costs, fix ogryns and advisors and allow some flexibility in regiment building. And for all of you who say get rid of Ratlings, no way! I love the little hobbit snipers! Keep them in the dex, and if you do not want to use them, dont. Variety in a list is only a good thing in my opinion.

And as everyone else has said, plastic valkyries are just pure, unadulterated win.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Ork wrote:I think Veterans also see a lot of use with 3 plasma guns and a heavy weapon, as I know some good players use it to a great effect. But yes, they'll prolly get hit by the nerf bat.

Something along the lines of "1 Special weapon at 5 men, 3 and a Heavy Weapon at 10 men". And they'll be 10 points each and lose Infiltration.

BYE

And you determine the special weapons by rolling on the Veteran Special Weapons Table. After deployment.

Kungfuhustler wrote:We have a cool system that lets us pick and choose the way we want our armies to be built because the IG is the largest and most variable amry in the universe, plain and simple.

But that's what the fluff sections in the new codex are for. Don't be surprised if we soon learn that in fact the vast majority of IG fight in 1 of 2 ways (like either Cadians or Catachans). Go go fluff retcon!

hahahaha, oh, it wouldn´t be so funny if it weren´t so true.

Well, the good old Perry models will most likely be left out this time round I think, plus Cadia is still almost completely lost to Abaddon and his 13th Black Crusade. So that leaves plenty of space for something completely generic, full pages of art or even better; excerpts from Dan Abnett's woobie saga.

Some guy named "Timspork" posted this on the Penny Arcade forums:

So I got some confirmation on the first wave of IG stuff when the Codex hits.

Plastic Cadian Command Squad
Plastic Catachan Command Squad
Re-cut Sentinel
Plastic Valkyrie

Two Metal Commissars (Commissar-Lord)
An undisclosed number of metal special characters
New metal Ratlings

No plastic stormtroopers or recut tanks/hellhound...

One guy on Warseer (*shrug*) said he's seen a pictre of an updated sentinel sprue.

charalice wrote:On the sentinel frame, I saw a lot of weapons. There are flamer, multi-laser, autocannon chainsword etc.. There also seems a heavy bolter and a plasma cannon on it lol. Although, I am not quite sure about the plasma cannon, the pic is not clear enough.

I saw of both Cadian and Catachan command squads. There are 5 models in each squad. For Cadian, the officer wears great coat.

I have to mention there is a metal officer having a master vox on his back. And there is also a master psycher...might be a special character.

Sorry, my English is poor, so I can hardly describe them...

Sentinels with plasma cannons will be interesting.

I honestly hope there is more in the first wave, the redundancy of catachan and cadian command squads leaves something to be desired. I think the Valkyrie is cool, but I don't plan on using any. Command Squads and Ratlings are the only other things we're looking at? I guess they don't want to let the cat out of the bag on redoing tanks until they can all be released at once.

If this is true, it will be the crappiest release this side of the Dark Eldar. Two plastic command boxes (any one army would ever guy either one or the other), a revamp of the Sentinel (yawn) and a Valkyrie. Yay.

And new ratlings, which are sure to be the possessed of this edition, with horrible rules and passable models.

Agamemnon2 wrote:If this is true, it will be the crappiest release this side of the Dark Eldar. Two plastic command boxes (any one army would ever guy either one or the other), a revamp of the Sentinel (yawn) and a Valkyrie. Yay.

And new ratlings, which are sure to be the possessed of this edition, with horrible rules and passable models.

Crap, pessimistic aren't we?

I actually think it's kinda nice that they haven't forgotten the Catachan line of plastics. Recut Sentinel is a good idea for the same reasons a recut Land Speeder makes sense, plus if there are new weapons I'll have to get another Company of them.

I'll admit it's a rather thin release - and I doubt the Codex itself will make up for that, considering that all our armies are going to require Special Characters to work as they once did without them - but the models that are coming could be quite good.

BYE

I'll admit it's a rather thin release - and I doubt the Codex itself will make up for that, considering that all our armies are going to require Special Characters to work as they once did without them - but the models that are coming could be quite good.

You're wrong. You're just wrong. Prickilingly, annoyingly, repeatedly wrong.

The special character editions in every codex they have been used in have been to expand upon what was previously possible. You could not do a bike space marine force before (kahn), you could not do a bike ork force before (wazdakka), you could not do a nob special force before (warboss), you could not do a dreadnaut special force before (big mek), you could not do a marine honor guard force before (calgar), you couldn't do an elite space marine gunline force before (pedro), you couldn't do a fleeting marine force before (shrike).


If you wanted to do anything similar you would either have to use a hard to get, bad, and outdated codex like speedfreeks or salamanders, and frankly you would still complain. Saying the main books are all just too generic.

Personally I'm hoping for a tank commander type of special character, it's one of those guys the Imperial Guard deserves to have. If the marines can have one then the Imperial Guard should most certainly get a tank ace of sorts.

I would love to simply have the option of veteran tank crews period. Maybe imbuing the ability to ignore shaken results and giving a +1 to BS or something. Nothing that takes up an HQ slot or anything, just a nice upgrade to go along with all the little kllcount symbols on the sides of those tanks.

Aye, a bit like how the 3rd ed. codex allowed your Vanquisher to become veteran with a point deposit, only the upgrade wasn't all that useful back then.

Agamemnon2 wrote:If this is true, it will be the crappiest release this side of the Dark Eldar. Two plastic command boxes (any one army would ever guy either one or the other), a revamp of the Sentinel (yawn) and a Valkyrie. Yay.

The redone Sentinel sounds nice - it'll have more, new weapons options so that's cool. I'll probably buy one for the bitz alone.

Plus the Valk. In plastic. The idea of having plastic Valks is so cool, I could hardly care less about the Command Squads for regiments that I don't play.
____

ShumaGorath wrote:The special character editions in every codex they have been used in have been to expand upon what was previously possible. You could not do a bike space marine force before (kahn),

Um, Shuma, I think you're off a bit here.

I know everybody likes to pretend they don't exist, but C: DA allowed SM to field a Bike force. Still does!
____

BrookM wrote:Personally I'm hoping for a tank commander type of special character, it's one of those guys the Imperial Guard deserves to have.

If the marines can have one then the Imperial Guard should most certainly get a tank ace of sorts.

Joachim Peiper, perhaps???

I'd rather IG have access to horribly overpriced (175+ pt) BS4 Tank Ace driving Exterminator as an Elite, with option to pay even more for Vanquisher.

For once I'd like a tank commander character that is NOT based on a fething nazi thank-you-very-much. They've already turned SS posterboy Michael Wittmann into a tank ace that comes with the Lucius pattern Baneblade and "Malmedy Massacre" Peiper has been given a cameo in the very first Imperial Armour softback book.

Besides, Peiper wasn't a tank commander.

BrookM wrote:For once I'd like a tank commander character that is NOT based on a fething nazi thank-you-very-much. They've already turned SS posterboy Michael Wittmann into a tank ace that comes with the Lucius pattern Baneblade and "Malmedy Massacre" Peiper has been given a cameo in the very first Imperial Armour softback book.

Besides, Peiper wasn't a tank commander.

so a tank ace should be based on a fething communist ?

Maybe put some acceptable names up here.