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My personal favorite is Lysander, Tiggy, and a sternguard squad.

Sure you've busted at least 630 points on 12 guys...

But you've got a squad that can pop anything at all... in record time

sorry, way off topic

The concept behind the army is to field a large number of special characters from the new codex and be able to beat non bikers and lash spam. I think if it was painted well it would look cool.

I won't be playing the army in a tournament at least for a couple months since I am presently working on my Blood Angels.

G

How is that list conceptualized around beating lash spam? There's no psychic defense--all the Chaos player has to do to beat you is stop a Land Raider, then spend the rest of the game pushing your super unit around the board. Land Raiders are tough, but not that tough.

That is the typical response BUT against a smart player it just is not going to be that easy. Only a relatively inexperienced player would:

- Setup troops in range and plain LOS to lash princes
- Setup tanks out of cover and in the open for Obliterators to shoot

For lash to work the prince must have LOS. The Oblits must rely upon the lascannon until they are within 12" range or less of the LRC.

In an objective based game it is possible the tanks can simply move onto objectives the first turn and sit there for a draw.

G

How are they going to stay alive if they move forward and sit on an objective for 4 turns? Since your not moving i don't think you rhinos would last long and if you sitting on the objective with the landraider then the landraider won't last to long against all the combat attacks or if they choose not to assault then you definitely within their 12" bubble multi-melta range. All this is just based on a lash list.

If the Oblits are in half range then I can charge them after they shoot.

I have played the following list:

Chaos Lord on bike w. MoN, plaguebringer, icon
Greater Daemon
3x (6x Nurgle Marines w. 2x meltagun & power fist - rhino)
6x possessed Marines w. MoN - rhino
3x (2x Oblit)

Not a lash spam list but it has a lot of the same ingredients so to speak. I never lost a game with this army so I am familiar with a lot of the basic tactics. : ) If I was playing against my Marneus & super friends list here is what I would do in an objective based game:

Attempt to move my rhinos onto the most objectives first and force Marneus to attack me. The biker lord would ride behind the rhinos and I would deep strike my Oblits using icon for a target lock. I would try to have the Oblits and Nurgle Marines positioned so that if Marneus and friends charge the Oblits I can then counter attack with the Nurgle Marines and biker lord. I would summons the greater daemon off the possessed champion so that he could assault the LRC if necessary and/or Marneus and super friends.

If Marneus and friends got onto the objectives first I would go after them and still deep strike the Oblits off the lord's icon and try to be in a position to shoot the LRC.

Obviously whoever gets to the objectives first should have the initial advantage.

G
3x (2x Oblit)

Green Blow Fly wrote:If the Oblits are in half range then I can charge them after they shoot.

I have played the following list:

Chaos Lord on bike w. MoN, plaguebringer, icon
Greater Daemon
3x (6x Nurgle Marines w. 2x meltagun & power fist - rhino)
6x possessed Marines w. MoN - rhino
3x (2x Oblit)

This list would crush your calgar list, hands down. It has multiple threats, several tough-to-kill scoring units, heavy support, maneuverability, and hitting power.

Your calgar list has a single, hard hitting unit with nothing to back it up. All the tactics you've come up with are ideal conditions. The nid player here has it right, a single carni in CC with that LRC would annihilate it, stranding the rest of your army. Between six MCs, he could cripple your rhino and keep that squad occupied, while still having fexes to spare to send after your soft scoring units.

I would fully agree, drop calgar and chronus. That gives you 350 points to get you a new terminator squad. Dropping calgar, chronus, and lysander gets you another 5 terminators in a LRC, along with a naked librarian. Shave off a few points somewhere and you could get chaplain whats-his-face, with his toughness 6 and FNP.

How are you suppose to keep people out of los with the new rules? so long as you see one model of that super unit their moving around at the lash players will buddy.

The carnis can easily catch a landraider. Good thing nidz are not so popular. You had me worried for a moment there.

G

Golga wrote:How are you suppose to keep people out of los with the new rules? so long as you see one model of that super unit their moving around at the lash players will buddy.

Exactly what I'm wondering. Once the LR is gone the terminators are hoofing it to the other side of the board, or simply hiding. DPs are larger, helping them to see over terrain/vehicles, and much more maneuverable due to their wings. Getting LOS should be no problem unless the unit hides, in which case you're probably fighting for a draw at best in any objective-based mission.

If this list can draw versus lash SPAM or nob bikers it has served its purpose. In a tournament you are going to be seeing these type lists a lot if you can win the first two rounds.

Anyways Danny have you ever played a lash SPAM list or are your comments pure conjecture? Lascannons in 5e are not that great against AV14.

G

Lascannons aren't that great but there's a good chance that Oblits will have range with multimeltas (true lash spam have lots), and it takes far, far fewer multimeltas to put the pain on AV14. If Calgar Superfriends *do* get popped out of the transport, they will be absolutely buried by wounds from shooting and / or Khorne Zerks.

Nob Bikers are still pretty much SOL, though.

Green Blow Fly wrote:
Anyways Danny have you ever played a lash SPAM list or are your comments pure conjecture? Lascannons in 5e are not that great against AV14.

G

6-9 lascannons (which is what lashspam normally has) works out just fine against a SINGLE armour 14 tank. Again, all you have to do is immobilise it.

I find it strange/funny how everyone here seems to be constantly panning this list/idea but you're basically ignoring the points that they seem to make.

Maybe you know something the rest of dakka doenst?

Shane - okay 9 las per turn. Let's be very generous to Marneus and assume:

LRC is obscured
6 have LOS the first turn

There is a good chance you will glance but not as much so for the penetration. If you do get the penetration there is still a 50% chance it will be altogether ignored. The exact odds are around 33%. Now you need to roll 4, 5, or 6 to stop the LRC... so now you are down to 1/6. Not that great but something that should not be ignored either, especially considering that I have been generous to Marneus. One way to handle this type of situation is just put the whole army in reserve.

Shane I know you don't like the army but certainly not everyone feels the same as you, as you have claimed. You are basically a math hammer guy that likes to try to play the game inside your head. That is okay but real gaming experience is a lot more valuable in my opinion.

Sourclams I agree with you about DSing the Oblits but a lot of people here said earlier that they would walk the Oblits onto the table.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:If this list can draw versus lash SPAM or nob bikers it has served its purpose. In a tournament you are going to be seeing these type lists a lot if you can win the first two rounds.

Anyways Danny have you ever played a lash SPAM list or are your comments pure conjecture? Lascannons in 5e are not that great against AV14.

G

Well, I OWN one, does that count? lol. And since when is the purpose of a "power build" to simply draw? Draws don't win tournaments. Or perhaps you're finally coming around to the realization (which everyone else seems to have already reached) that this is barely a mediocre build, nevermind a good one.

Immobilizing the LR in your list makes you lose just as badly as blowing it up. 6 Obliterators have a 44% chance of either blowing up or immobilizing your LR every single turn (not counting cover) with lascannons. That climbs to 67% chance per turn with 9 Obliterators. These are not good odds when all of your eggs are in that basket.

Math:

2/3 (hit) * 1/6 (glance) * 1/6 (immobilize)
2/3 (hit) * 1/6 (penetrate) * 1/2 (immobilize, wreck, explode) *
6 (Obliterators)
= 0.4444

2/3 (hit) * 1/6 (glance) * 1/6 (immobilize)
2/3 (hit) * 1/6 (penetrate) * 1/2 (immobilize, wreck, explode) *
9 (Obliterators)
= 0.6666

If you can draw a proven power build that says so
something. I can always DS the termies Danny boy. Do you have pix of your lash army you can post?

G

Danny Internets wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:If this list can draw versus lash SPAM or nob bikers it has served its purpose. In a tournament you are going to be seeing these type lists a lot if you can win the first two rounds.

Anyways Danny have you ever played a lash SPAM list or are your comments pure conjecture? Lascannons in 5e are not that great against AV14.

G

Well, I OWN one, does that count? lol. And since when is the purpose of a "power build" to simply draw? Draws don't win tournaments. Or perhaps you're finally coming around to the realization (which everyone else seems to have already reached) that this is barely a mediocre build, nevermind a good one.

Immobilizing the LR in your list makes you lose just as badly as blowing it up. 6 Obliterators have a 44% chance of either blowing up or immobilizing your LR every single turn (not counting cover) with lascannons. That climbs to 67% chance per turn with 9 Obliterators. These are not good odds when all of your eggs are in that basket.

Math:

2/3 (hit) * 1/6 (glance) * 1/6 (immobilize)
2/3 (hit) * 1/6 (penetrate) * 1/2 (immobilize, wreck, explode) *
6 (Obliterators)
= 0.4444

2/3 (hit) * 1/6 (glance) * 1/6 (immobilize)
2/3 (hit) * 1/6 (penetrate) * 1/2 (immobilize, wreck, explode) *
9 (Obliterators)
= 0.6666

See THAT is mathhammer. I couldnt have told you that.

...I simply know what works in 40k.

So you DO have a mathhammer guy that doesnt like the list.

Only a novice would be foolish enough to believe the Oblits will get all those shots.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Only a novice would be foolish enough to believe the Oblits will get all those shots.

G

Only a novice would be foolish enough to believe that a single land raider has a chance of making it across the board against an army with a strong ranged shooting game.

Just a quick question...

How do slowed/weak lists make it to 4 pages?

....oh yea, after reveiw its several people saying that it sucks and GBF saying that it'll work.

4 pages of that, what a waste of time.

Get a clue, this list is horrible. Only a novice would sit there and defend a hopeless list after multiple gamers tells him it wont work.

Oh that hurt.

LOL!

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Oh that hurt.

Get used to that phrase, you'll be using it a lot if you run this garbage.

Beerfart wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:Oh that hurt.

Get used to that phrase, you'll be using it a lot if you run this garbage.

pwn

Its terrible, the only reason i looked at this thread because it said "REAL space marine power build" thought it was going to be amazing, im very disapointed.

It gets funnier: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/224597.page

Looks like we are going through another of the hater clan's temper tantrum spells where they can only say juvenile stuff like:

pwn
You suck!
yadda yadda

Have fun with it.

G

Green Blow Fly:

To be fair, at least one of them actually is a juvenile...

Lemme give you a hint GBF. (Goonie Build Fanatic)

When was the last time you saw someone post an army list and the whole of the internet said "WOW AWESOME BUILD!" My guess is, never. Most of the time when someone posts a list (especially when it sucks, like now) people bash certain aspects of it. If you arent ready for that, dont post a list. Now, if you decide to brave the critiquing, you have two options....

1) take it personally and get defensive about your build, and learn nothing from the experience of having your army critiqued. (sort of like you've been doing since this whole thing started)

2) take what MULTIPLE people tell you (like having everyone here tell you that this list is terrible garbage) and work with it. Not once have you asked anybody here what they think you could do to make the list better, all you can do is spam that you're not a novice and you're smart enough to keep your LR obscured (as if that really means something against 9 oblits).

In my opinion, with you insisting that this list is anything other than total garbage and in no way competetive, the only way you could be dangerous on the tabletop is thru blind stupid luck or by refering to my quotation in my sig.

Okay here is what I am keeping in the army

- Marneus, Lysander, Chronus, 6x assault terminators and LRC with multi-melta

What would you suggest for the rest of the points left over to make this a better list?

G

Nurglitch wrote:Green Blow Fly:

To be fair, at least one of them actually is a juvenile...

In mind or age?

G