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I want the Space wolves but I am just hoping that the Blood Claws don't get changed too much.

Depends on what you consider 'too much'. They'll still be vikings in power armor, that won't change.

Rumor is lose Berserk Charge, but gain WS4 and Furious Charge. I would guess the number of powerfists/weapons gets reduced.

Hopefully, they also gain Rage.

dietrich wrote:Depends on what you consider 'too much'. They'll still be vikings in power armor, that won't change.

Rumor is lose Berserk Charge, but gain WS4 and Furious Charge. I would guess the number of powerfists/weapons gets reduced.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if squads were limited to two specials, including power fists and power weapons. Before the Guard book, I would've said there was no way Blood Claws would get berzerk charge. Now, I'm not so sure. My money is still on them losing it though.

dietrich wrote:Depends on what you consider 'too much'. They'll still be vikings in power armor, that won't change.

Rumor is lose Berserk Charge, but gain WS4 and Furious Charge. I would guess the number of powerfists/weapons gets reduced.

That would suck. WS4 and furious charge is not an acceptable replacement for the loss of special CCW and 2 attacks on the charge.

Remember we want wolves to be different. There are tons of things out there that have furious charge and are WS4. The old way they were unique, this just moves them closer to blue marines and none of us want that.

Berzerk charge is exactly what I wanted them to keep.

I currently field 30 blood claws. totaling 120 attacks on charge 24 of which are power weapon attacks.
I mean its such a fun ability.

15 BCs, no special weapons charge MEQs. 60 attacks, 30 hits, 15 wounds, 5 failed saves. 10 MEQs strike simultaneously. 7 hits (WS 4 vs 3), 4 wounds, 1 failed save. Ld at -4.

15 BCs, Furious Charge, WS 4. 45 attacks at Init 5. 23 hits. 15 wounds (Str 5), 5 failed saves. 5 MEQs strike back at Init 4. 5 attacks, 2.5 hits, 1.25 wounds - likely no lost BCs. Ld at -5.

About the same effect. Personally, I'd rather have WS4 and Furious Charge and some power weapons. It blunts some of the BC hitting power, but WS 4 makes them more durable (since less attacks will hit), and FC means they're killing opponents before they strike (which means less attacks too).

Either way, unless they're in a Land Raider or equipped bikes/jump packs, they can still only assault 12 inches, which gives them too short a threat range from my tastes.

If BC get furious charge, ill have to change them all from Pfists to Pweps

then all my current Pfisty blood claws will be converted to power armor wolf guard.

Demogerg wrote:If BC get furious charge, ill have to change them all from Pfists to Pweps

then all my current Pfisty blood claws will be converted to power armor wolf guard.

You're too kind. Mine will be converted to chew toys for my chiuhuahua, like every other hunk of plastic GW has decided is no longer useable. I have a feeling my dog will be fat n' happy this fall.

If the Island of Lost Toys ever stages a revolution, GW will be the first against the wall.

Someone needs to develop an APOC datasheet for all the invalidated models. That would be quite the army.

SC are Storm Claws? Storm Claws are cool. Probably provide a more fast attack type role.

I think he means Special Characters....



Clay

Mastiff wrote:

Demogerg wrote:If BC get furious charge, ill have to change them all from Pfists to Pweps

then all my current Pfisty blood claws will be converted to power armor wolf guard.

You're too kind. Mine will be converted to chew toys for my chiuhuahua, like every other hunk of plastic GW has decided is no longer useable. I have a feeling my dog will be fat n' happy this fall.

If the Island of Lost Toys ever stages a revolution, GW will be the first against the wall.

wow, overreact much? gw can and should alter unit options to fit the current edition rules as appropriate; furious charge and rage is exactly what's described in the fluff for blood claws. consider yourself lucky that you don't get a crappy white dwarf codex like the other 3rd edition munchkin army, the Blood Angels. they simply lost most of their flavor and effectiveness. the SW were incredibly overpowered when they first came out and it took the last 8 years to average out the benefits they had with other armies (nontargetable PW/PF, cheaper special weapons for non-ICs, etc). flavor and uniqueness does not mean "give me something more powerful than everyone else has and don't let them have it afterwards". it means you're different from codex marines in equipment choices and SOME rules, not different from everything else in the whole 40k universe.

I would argue that Blood Claws will probably be the crux of this army when it comes to flavor.

As much as I would like to see an actual unit in 40k get Rage, it would seem odd that Blood Claws have it and Beserkers don't. Though I can see GW saying "screw it" and giving the Blood Claws rage anyways.

Here is what I would personally like to see in the two troop choices:

Grey Hunters - Unit Size 5 to 10 - Marine Stats, has Counter Charge, BP/CCW and Bolter Standard. Up to 3 Marines can take Special Weapon or Special Close Combat Weapon.

Blood Claws - Unit Size 10 to 20 - Marine Stats with WS and BS 3, BP/CCW, Furious Charge, Rage, Berserker Charge, Up to 3 Marines can take Special Close Combat Weapon.

That would keep Grey Hunters in their roll of the foremost line troops, but make Blood Claws a scary albeit limited alternative.

What does rage do? I don't play fantasy. (I assume thats where it comes from.)

Mastiff wrote:You're too kind. Mine will be converted to chew toys for my chiuhuahua, like every other hunk of plastic GW has decided is no longer useable. I have a feeling my dog will be fat n' happy this fall.

I really hope you don't actually do this as this sounds like a recipe for an expensive intestinal blockage.

warboss wrote:

Mastiff wrote:

Demogerg wrote:If BC get furious charge, ill have to change them all from Pfists to Pweps

then all my current Pfisty blood claws will be converted to power armor wolf guard.

You're too kind. Mine will be converted to chew toys for my chiuhuahua, like every other hunk of plastic GW has decided is no longer useable. I have a feeling my dog will be fat n' happy this fall.

If the Island of Lost Toys ever stages a revolution, GW will be the first against the wall.

wow, overreact much?

Try and keep a sense of humour. You'll live longer.

After 25 years of painting the little buggers, I've come to greet each new Codex with a sphincter-tightening grimace as a I hope another 50+ hours of painting and converting isn't about to be binned because GW thinks they've finally found the "right" formula, which doesn't include most of the plastic and metal sitting on my shelf. Yes I'm cynical. I also thought the hyberbole was vaguely amusing and obvious. Apologies if I frightened you. I shall endeavour to be more gentle in my griping in the future.

Mahu wrote:
Blood Claws - Unit Size 10 to 20 - Marine Stats with WS and BS 3, BP/CCW, Furious Charge, Rage, Berserker Charge, Up to 3 Marines can take Special Close Combat Weapon.

I'd be concerned that Furious Charge, Rage and Berserker Charge would drive the cost per model up too much and would force smaller units. Right now the relatively low cost encourages large mobs, which is part of the appeal of the unit IMO.

Balance wrote:I really hope you don't actually do this as this sounds like a recipe for an expensive intestinal blockage.

Don't worry, her teeth put most garbage disposals to shame. It'll slide right through her. Little know fact, Vermin Brown makes a very effective laxitive.

What does rage do? I don't play fantasy. (I assume thats where it comes from.)

Rage is actually a USR introduced in the fifth edition rulebook. Basically it a "always move towards the enemy" rule, it never comes up because currently no codex uses it (or has a rule similar). I expect Death Company and Khorne Berserkers to get it whenever they get a "true" fifth edition codex.

I'd be concerned that Furious Charge, Rage and Berserker Charge would drive the cost per model up too much and would force smaller units. Right now the relatively low cost encourages large mobs, which is part of the appeal of the unit IMO.

I don't think that will be the case, even if they do go with what I am proposing. In order to field such large numbers they would have to be walking, most of the time in fifth you will see them in Rhinos or Drop Pods anyways as the new IG kills large walking power armor squads. That has it's own disadvantages when it comes to setting up assaults, so when they hit, they need to hit hard. I doubt in most competitive play they would be worth more then 16 points.

I think one of the new IG Special Characters has the rule. The Rough Rider SC IIRC.

Mahu wrote:

What does rage do? I don't play fantasy. (I assume thats where it comes from.)

Rage is actually a USR introduced in the fifth edition rulebook. Basically it a "always move towards the enemy" rule, it never comes up because currently no codex uses it (or has a rule similar). I expect Death Company and Khorne Berserkers to get it whenever they get a "true" fifth edition codex.

Ahh, I must have missed that one, because I've never seen it actually called that. I got a buddy who played BA a ton, but it wasn't called that back in the day.

Aye, wasn't it called "Black Rage"?

Sounds to me like the Wolves are going to be the loyal version of Khorne now. Especially if they are getting a character that has to be dropped via a private pod, and respected with the same 20 foot pole World Eaters give Kharne the betrayer.

Very very eager to see the final codex.

Psi wrote:
Sounds to me like the Wolves are going to be the loyal version of Khorne now. Especially if they are getting a character that has to be dropped via a private pod, and respected with the same 20 foot pole World Eaters give Kharne the betrayer.

Very very eager to see the final codex.

They always kind of were though...

I remember when my Khorne bud played against me with my 13th company army a bunch of times. When our lords clashed, there was an explosion of blood and body parts everywhere.

Blood for the Wolf guard?

Yeah, I've heard stories of 13th Co vs. World Eater games before. Basically mass carnage and over pretty quick.

Ozymandias wrote:Yeah, I've heard stories of 13th Co vs. World Eater games before. Basically mass carnage and over pretty quick.

WE vs. 13th is like watching a destruction derby. Everything smashes together and the winner is the last one who can still crawl out of the wreckage.

I don't play Space Wolves, but If I do a loyalist Power Armour Army, that'll be it.

50 points for termie armour I think will be shown up as wrong, I mean, 50 points...

The redst of it sounds quite plausible though, and this Dreadnought Lord man sounds awesome. I can't wait.

I don't think that will be the case, even if they do go with what I am proposing. In order to field such large numbers they would have to be walking, most of the time in fifth you will see them in Rhinos or Drop Pods anyways as the new IG kills large walking power armor squads. That has it's own disadvantages when it comes to setting up assaults, so when they hit, they need to hit hard. I doubt in most competitive play they would be worth more then 16 points.

You forgot about the LRC! 15 BC's with a Rune Priest with PF's and PW's is pure awesome!

I don't care about the rules just give me some new models!!!!

OOMBATOO O`MALLY wrote:I don't care about the rules just give me some new models!!!!

QFT.
i bought the limited twin lightning claw wolf guard, a certain "Odin Knight" from a certain non GW company, and i already own every other space wolf character and unit type, just working on fleshing out my vehicles right now. (working on a scratchbuild titan as well)