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Nurglitch wrote:Let's not forget the evil things that Slaanesh-aligned units will do at I5 to the I4 Space Wolves, or Plague Marines destroying Blood Claws because Blight Grenades cancel out charge bonuses, or heck, a Lord of Slaanesh using a Blissgiver to maul Space Wolf characters. Heck, I'd love to see a unit of Blood Claws run into Lucius: After he thins them out a bit they'd get A3 on the charge, 5+ to hit, 4+ to wound, and then Sv3+ or Iv5+ to save with each one of those successful saves killing another Blood Claw. Lucius may not survive, but the sheer mutual destruction would be hilarious.

They will not cancel out the charges. It is not a charge bonus, it simply states that they get 2 attacks for charging. This was once a heated debate versus the Necron's Gaze of Flame.

They get 2 attacks for charging instead of the +1 for charging. Blight grenades cancel it out, as you don't get the +1, so you won't be able to get something else instead of it.

Spellbound:

I think you've mis-estimated Lucius' impact. Suppose a unit of Blood Claws charged him.

Lucius gets his four attacks, 3+ to hit, 4+ to wound, let's call it two hits for convenience. One wound. Woot.

So if the Space Wolf player is clever, and to make this easier, he'll remove the one Blood Claw in base to base with Lucius, leaving two others.

So, nine Blood Claws have 36 attacks. 12 hit on 5+, 6 wound on 4+, 4 saves on 3+, giving 2 wounds to Lucius, and 2 wounds to the Blood Claws.

In the end it's 3:2 in favour of Lucius. The Blood Claws need a 7 or less to pass. If the Blood Claws fail, he'll catch them in a Sweeping Advance for perhaps another Blood Claw, but let's suppose he doesn't and the Blood Claws move to surround him.

You can get six Blood Claws into combat with Lucius, who's on his last wound. This is good because there's seven Blood Claws left.

In the next assault phase, Lucius hits first again. Causes another wound. Behold the might and the fury. Dude's gotta stop playing with his food.

The Blood Claws are reduced to 6 attacks, because they no longer have the charge bonus and there's only the six left in base to base with Lucius and his Lash of Torment. So 2 hits on 5+, 1 wounds on 4+, he likely saves. On average he likely kills another Blood Claw with the Armour of Shrieking Souls.

So now the Blood Claws lose 2:0. They can pass on a 6 or suffer two Sweeping Advance hits. Odds are that it'll get one of them. That leaves four Blood Claws.

Lucius gets his average, leaving three Blood Claws. They get their hit, and probably either wound and get whacked by Lucius's armour, or don't wound and do nothing. Three little Blood Claws left.

And so on.

So, on average, Lucius will eat a pack of Blood Claws.

Speaking of Rhinos though: If a pack of Grey Hunters needs 10 Grey Hunters for a second free Melta Gun, and a Rhino only has space for ten, doesn't that make it as choice between a Melta Gun and a Wolfguard Leader? That's not exactly free.


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ph34r:

Isn't it the case that the Blood Claws only lose out on the Bolt Pistols if they aren't led by a Wolf Guard? I'd say that they lose out on the WS more than anything.

Edit: Corrected some math

10 Blood Claws vs Lucius, whether one, two, or three get into back to base contact, for the sake of argument at least one of them stays in base to base contact after Lucius is done cutting, and the rest are within 2" of him or Lucius. Whether it's 34 or 36 attacks, the average is 12 hit, 6 wounds, 4 saves, 2 wounds on him, 2 on the enemy. Lucius wins 3:2.

Round two 7 Blood Claws vs Lucius, surrounding him with six. The seventh is killed by Lucius, so 6 attacks, the average is 2 hits, 1 wound, 1 save, 1 on the enemy. Lucius wins 2:0.

Round three: 5 Blood Claws vs Lucius. Four survive, so 4 attacks, 2 hit, 1 wound, 1 save, 1 on the enemy, Lucius wins 2:0.

Round four: 3 Blood Claws vs Lucius. Two survive, so 2 attacks, 1 hit, 1 wound, 1 save, 1 on the enemy, Lucius winds by 2:0.

Round five: Lucius wins by massacre. That's if he didn't inflict any No Retreat casualties and shut down the Blood Claws earlier.

Suppose Lucius attacked the Blood Claws. That's 5 attacks, 3 hits, 2 wounds. There's eight left, so supposing that they pass their Counter-Attack leadership test, they have A3 each for 24 attacks, 8 hits, 4 wounds, 3 saves, 1 wound on Lucius and 2 on the Blood Claws. Lucius wins 4:1. If the Blood Claws fail their Leadership and get caught in a Sweeping Advance, they'll lose another body.

Round two, Lucius is surrounded by the Blood Claws again. As above he scores a single casualty now that the extra attack tipping him into an average of two per round is gone. There's six Blood Claws left. 6 attacks, 2 hits, 1 wound, probably saves, probably kills another Blood Claw. Etc.

Ive had this problem so many times, its not even funny. You can ask any GW employee, reread any rules, and it always come out with the blood claws getting the +2. In the rules it says "Blood Claws get +2 attacks for charging" and Blight grenades cancel out charging bonuses. Not special rules.

jab4962:

Hey, that's great, take it to YMDC.

Nurglitch wrote:jab4962:

Hey, that's great, take it to YMDC.

I would if it felt important enough, but he brought it up in this thread, so i rebuffed while staying on topic of the blood claws.

I seriously think the transport caps are all mistakes. I know GW has done this in the past, but we should have confirmation in the Q&A on the GW site at some point.

I like the transport caps: they definitely make the player make a choice between the bonuses conferred on a full squad, and the advantages conferred by the accompanying character. Plus it gives some sense to things like Razorbacks, and Crusaders, and so on.

Besides, the whole point of the Razorback being able to seat 6 Marines originally was because it as a command vehicle so that a character could accompany a combat squad of Marines. It's very 2nd edition, but it works.

Ahahaha!!!

I have the codex in front of me this very moment. If anyone has any specific questions in the next 90 minutes or so, I may be able to help you out.



This is very, very cool.

Transport capacity of various vehicles: what are they?

What's up with the Lukas dude?

How does that MAW psychic power work, exactly?

Points costs for frost blade, power fist, chain fist, thunderhammer, or storm shield if you are a wolf guard in terminator armor?

And do venerable dreadnoughts let you re-roll for first turn?

Oh, and is Logan the only terminator armor character?

Nurglitch wrote:Transport capacity of various vehicles: what are they?

What's up with the Lukas dude?

How does that MAW psychic power work, exactly?

Land Raider: 10
LR Redeemer: 12
LR Crusader: 16
Rhino: 10
Razorback: 6

Lukas has a statis bomb wired in place of his secondary heart, so if the primary stops beating...
both players roll a D6, if equal to or over the opponent's roll, all models in contact with Lukas are REMOVED FROM THE GAME.
EDIT: All successful hits against him must be rerolled, and his squad (he is upgraded from a Blood Claw) has a maximum leadership of 8 due to his rebelliousness.


The 'Jaws of the World Wolf' is a 24" straight line psychic power, shooting phase... ignores terrain, models contacted by line take an initiative test or are REMOVED FROM THE GAME.
Monstrous creatures may subtract 1 from their die roll, 6's are auto fails as usual.

...or did you mean something else by 'MAW'?

ph34r wrote:Points costs for frost blade, power fist, chain fist, thunderhammer, or storm shield if you are a wolf guard in terminator armor?

And do venerable dreadnoughts let you re-roll for first turn?

Oh, and is Logan the only terminator armor character?

I'm not going to quote points costs, but trust me, Wolf Guard are cheap, cheap cheap.

Venerable Dreadnoughts do not let you re-roll for first turn as far as I can tell. (Bjorn does though)

Logan does not have an option for >Power Armour<, but Njal has an upgrade option to Runic Terminator Armour as detailed in the original post.

What exactly does Bjorn do and what is his cost.


Give a in depth of Sagas?

Kind of wondering basically which ones apply to the whole army
Kind of curious about that.


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Ie what does Saga of the hunter actually do?

Does it confer outflank and infiltrate to just the Wolf Lord?


Also more about the Lone Wolf please.

@Arctik_Firangi
Logan is clearly modeled in terminator armor and has it under the old rules. But thanks for reminding me about Njal.
EDIT: And how many points does terminator Njal cost? Or will you explain everything in great detail except points?

it's 25 points to put Njal in termi-armor. Pretty sure that makes him the same cost as Logan

We need answers :(

Not that interested in sagas so I didn't read up to heavily on them though it seems at most they help an extra unit, not the entire army.

As for lonewolves they've been covered multiple times. 2W, WS5, 2A, I4 with eternal warrior, feel no pain, base 20pts, with a ridiculous number of equipment options. Single choice per entry (think marbo). Give up a kill point if they don't die, 0 KP's if they do die.

To answer those, saga's are character specific only, their are none that apply to entirity of the army, just the character you purchased it for.

Arjac Rockfist is another character in terminator armour, although he is a wolf guard upgrade.

Thanks to artik firang for the confirmation and insight from the codex. Most helpful.

Winter wrote:To answer those, saga's are character specific only, their are none that apply to entirity of the army, just the character you purchased it for.

Arjac Rockfist is another character in terminator armour, although he is a wolf guard upgrade.

Oh? I thought he did not have terminator armor? This is great news if he does.
EDIT: or is it an upgrade for him?

Also does logan still have his "+1 attack for a turn in x radius" aka holy relic ability?

Thanks ph34r.

Totally forgot about that Logan rule. Will check on it today and put it up.

Sorry about that typo, ph34r, I meant that Logan does not have an option for POWER armour, as it was rumoured he would in the same fashion as Calgar.

I had to go back to work, so sorry about the questions that missed out. I should be able to grab another look in the next 24 hours, so keep the questions coming. Looks like radiohazard might be able to fill in the gaps a bit quicker than me though.

Sagas are definitely 'wargear'-like upgrades as far as their purchase, but their effects are pretty diverse. I can't recall if that Outflank one confers it to his squad, but it would make sense.

Bjorn is definitely 13/12/10, gets a 5+ save against glancing and penetrating hits in addition to his Venerable re-roll, and I honestly can't remember what else. I spent a lot of time fawning over the new sprues. I can possibly bump up photos of those tomorrow if they're not online yet.

Not going to go into point costs (irrelevant when you don't know the entire list anyway), but I will say that Wolf Guard are 18pts, and Grey Hunters/Blood Claws are each 15 pts. Blood Claws don't get the Berserk bonus attack on a counter charge.

Njal Stormcaller is going to be a real favorite character as far as I can tell.
Consider +25 for Termi armour confirmed.

Fluff-wise, lone wolves are basically the sole survivors of their packs / companies, and very, very pissed off.

Wow lots of helpful folks today.

At first I was completely against Bjorn, but after testing him, he is a monster. Easily the toughest vehicle in non apocalypse games.

I was only going to collect a cavalry force, but now I want it all. I'm talking an entire company.

I'll have more info up when I get it, I just can't be bothered to get out of bed ATM. Watching Monday Night Raw live in England is a killer when it finishes at 4:15 am.

And rockfist is confirmed as terminator armor?
One more thing, are lone wolves 1 per elite slot, or can you take multiple that act separately ala 1-3 lictors/zoanthropes etc.

Question - is the Thunderwolf cavalry still 3+ save?

Because if it is then that's 250 pts (min) of hard to hide uber-unit that's practically begging to take a battlecannon round (or equivalent) to the face.

From what I've read so far, well played IG (although air cav would struggle) should munch the new puppies.

However broken some elements are against certain armies, their vulnerabilities will stop them from becoming game-breaking overall.

just my $0.02

ph34r wrote:And rockfist is confirmed as terminator armor?
One more thing, are lone wolves 1 per elite slot, or can you take multiple that act separately ala 1-3 lictors/zoanthropes etc.

I am about 80% sure rockfist is in terminator armour, but i'd still check it if you get the chance.

They are definately only 1 per elite slot, but they are pretty awesome, similar to Dwarven troll slayers, give em the mark of wulfen and point them at something and watch them pull it apart.

Chimera_calvin wrote:Question - is the Thunderwolf cavalry still 3+ save?

Yes thunderwolf cavalry are a 3+ save, although they are T5 base, and can be given storm shields, so a battle cannon make not be as effective as you think depending on how they are kitted out. Also if your making TWC similar to Canis then you are going to have models on 60 mm bases, so a 5" blast template might hit two or three depending on your scatter.

Fair enough - although at T5 anything S7+ will wound on a 2. I still think that IG have the puppies number because if they do kit them with shields, the unit's an even bigger points sink and massed autocannon (which, lets face it, IG excel at) work just as well against the shields as they do wtih regular 3+ armour.

Hydras (or should it be Hydrae? ) all round!!

New stuff added to OP.

Not much info to get from the codex now.

Forget to get info on Arjak and his armour.

Slightly off topic here...

I saw some conversions in my NON GW FLGS of a selection of Space Wolf characters...

CONVERTED INTO CHARACTERS FROM ASTERIX!!!

Asterix + Power Armour is full of win.
Obelix in Terminator Armour.
Vitalstatistix in Power Armour on a shield + bearers, counting as a Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf.

Heh heh heh... your country flag seems to have changed to a Union Jack, but with the French flag you were flying earlier that all makes sense. Provide us with pictures of said conversions, if you would.

I've already sorted out my work schedule for tomorrow so that it doesn't prevent me from getting in and photographing the SW sprue before it gets chopped up.

It changes from Union Jack to Italian all the time. Christ knows why.

I'll get some pics of the Asterix Marines when I go back to my FLGS.

About the Dex: I think we now have everything. But anyone who has any other credible info, post it and I'll add it in to the OP.