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I like to vote for someone who will make all of them sit up and pay attention to the electorate.

But not the BNP heaven forbid they get into power.

So not a lot of choice really.

According to this poll now, the BNP have as many votes as the Labour Party. I pray to God that's just Americans all reading this thread and voting it for a good chuckle.

I really wouldn't worry about that Ketara, there is less that 50 votes right now.

Here.

http://www.general-election-2010.co.uk/

A much more substantial poll, by the distance between me and the moon.

* Labour Party (35.3%) (20.77%, 2,941 Votes)
* Conservative Party (32.3%) (22.97%, 3,253 Votes)
* Liberal Democrats Party (22.1%) (15.64%, 2,214 Votes)
* UK Independant Party (UKIP) (2.2%) (6.36%, 900 Votes)
* Green Party (1.0%) (3.79%, 537 Votes)
* British National Party (BNP) (0.7%) (17.46%, 2,472 Votes)

I refuse to vote at this years election as I feel that nobody really knows how to run this country.

Wrexasaur wrote:A much more substantial poll, by the distance between me and the moon.

* Labour Party (35.3%) (20.77%, 2,941 Votes)
* Conservative Party (32.3%) (22.97%, 3,253 Votes)
* Liberal Democrats Party (22.1%) (15.64%, 2,214 Votes)
* UK Independant Party (UKIP) (2.2%) (6.36%, 900 Votes)
* Green Party (1.0%) (3.79%, 537 Votes)
* British National Party (BNP) (0.7%) (17.46%, 2,472 Votes)

This poll seems off....and frankly wrong. During the past two trips I have taken to the land of St. George I found nothing but disdain, even in London, for the Labour Party. I don't recall meeting even one supporter of theirs in my travels...not to mention the fact that Labour is led by a bumbling fool. I highly doubt that Labour is beating the Tories in the hearts and minds of the people, much less the polls.

Affinity doesn't necessarily guide voting behavior. I don't like the Democratic Party, but I vote for them because I dislike them less than the Republican Party. Right now, anyway.

Supporters of parties with little going for them tend to get much quieter, but they don't often change their vote. There's also a lot of folk who'll write their party off, but come election day find themselves voting the same as the always do.

I mean, I don't think for a second that Labour will win, but long time family support doesn't just go away. They'll take their licks in opposition, rebuild their party around someone untarnished by Blair's New Labour, and wait until the Tories screw up bad enough.

Oh, and the BNP are doing well in the Dakka poll because its an on-line, voluntarily poll and those things always skew towards the crazy.

Maybe Sebster, but I find that argument to be severely lacking. The Conservative Party is the largest party in the UK by number of registered voters. So it they vote the way they have always done, Labour should not have such a commanding lead in the HoC, especially in the FPTP system.

JEB_Stuart wrote:Maybe Sebster, but I find that argument to be severely lacking. The Conservative Party is the largest party in the UK by number of registered voters. So it they vote the way they have always done, Labour should not have such a commanding lead in the HoC, especially in the FPTP system.

The problem is that most Tory seats are in quite safe locations, so in order for them to actually advance and gain more seats, they actually need more votes per gained seat than other parties as the number of Tory voters in other areas is comparatively low.

At least, this is what I recall from a political special program I saw a while ago.

SilverMK2 wrote:
The problem is that most Tory seats are in quite safe locations, so in order for them to actually advance and gain more seats, they actually need more votes per gained seat than other parties as the number of Tory voters in other areas is comparatively low.

At least, this is what I recall from a political special program I saw a while ago.

This is quite pertinent and one of the reasons that many political commentators are predicting a hung parliament this time around. Judging by most of the opinion polls being run, Conservatives have a lead on Labour; however, most of the bedrock Conservative support comes from constituencies where they already have a comfortable majority. This extra swing to Conservative in these seats is effectively wasted; the seat is already won and Conservative controlled and so any additional votes make no odds. If the Conservatives are to win the next election then they need to make inroads into Labour territory, traditionally the North as Mattyrm has referred to earlier.

I grew up during the Conservative mismanagement of this country, so despite the utter awfulness of Labour and my massive dislike of what they're doing, I honestly believe the Conservatives would do worse.

So, with a heavy heart, I will either vote Labour or just not turn up at the Polling Station if there's something remotely interesting on TV. Though something tells me that if enough people do that, the BNP will sneak yet more seats, which would be worse than anything any of the other parties could do.

I'm not brainwashed into voting Labour, I just truly feel they're the best of a truly awful, immoral bunch.

How you can say that they are the best of a bad bunch is utterly beyond me.

Tell me in one way they are better. The way i see it, all of the politicians swiped money off the taxpayer, but the Labour party told everyone they were different, told everyone they were looking out for the working classes, and really they were feathering their own fething nests the whole time.

The Tories tell lies, the Labour party tell lies as well, but they are back stabbing basely disgusting lies of the most hypocritical way.

Id rather get fingered by a rich guy who i have nothing in common with than a poor guy who made good and then stuck his fething nose in the trough with the rest of them. Im voting Tory, much to the shame of my brain-dead northern family, neighbours and friends!

Unless of course the good folk of the North East finally see the light, then i shall praise them as sensible well read individuals, and start picking on the fething scousers instead!

I think the north east will be one of the last places to forget the last time the Tories were in power, so I can't really blame them.

Yeah truth in that mate, lets be honest though, the whole thing goes way above the heads of most of the people that merely rant about Thatcher.

You need a real grasp of economics and politics to understand the complex social and economic issues at the time, and most people dont read nearly enough.

Proof of that is evident, look how many people think that evolution is "just a theory"?

Anyway, not only do i read a great deal, my Dad wasnt a miner.

All science is theory. it is just that a lot of that theory has quite a few observable proofs behind it, which make it as close to "fact" as it is possible to get, given our current understanding of the universe.

mattyrm wrote:How you can say that they are the best of a bad bunch is utterly beyond me.

Tell me in one way they are better. The way i see it, all of the politicians swiped money off the taxpayer, but the Labour party told everyone they were different, told everyone they were looking out for the working classes, and really they were feathering their own fething nests the whole time.

The Tories tell lies, the Labour party tell lies as well, but they are back stabbing basely disgusting lies of the most hypocritical way.

Id rather get fingered by a rich guy who i have nothing in common with than a poor guy who made good and then stuck his fething nose in the trough with the rest of them. Im voting Tory, much to the shame of my brain-dead northern family, neighbours and friends!

Unless of course the good folk of the North East finally see the light, then i shall praise them as sensible well read individuals, and start picking on the fething scousers instead!

You've obviously made up your mind on this and I have been reading a lot of what you wrote... I'll throw in my two-cents but I guess it's not necessarily covering what you've been writing about but I'd like to address the most vocal conservative supporter here directly.

I'll start by perhaps somewhat foolishly tarring your opinion on me by stating that I am an anti-capitalist socialist, the only thing that seperates me from a Marxist is my cynicism toward the possibility of a utopian state, I probably sit with what your ilk would term the "Looney Left".

Obviously as a member of that aforementioned group I should not support Labour, not even Old Labour, but the problem with the UK as I view it is the complete lack of Democracy. We have an unfair electoral system which will effectively invalidate any support a party has that isn't geographically centred, then, once a government is actually formed in Parliament they'll control their guaranteed majority to effectively guarantee the passage of legislation (just look up the fail rate on government legislation, it's shocking). All of this is done without any form of public check beyond opinion polls; it is the governing party that decides when it wishes to stand for re-election.

If I had my way within the democratic framework we already have, I'd hope we could establish a secular republic much like the USA.

Although I disapprove of the entire system, I will still support any progressive liberal and leftist party... which unfortunately is the Labour Party. To be honest what you said earlier, "leopards never change their spots" is a bit offensive to me when it comes to the LP. I wouldn't have been overjoyed to support them in their previous incarnation but now they are essentially new-age conservatives, they sit on the centre-right.

However, nevetheless they are the leftmost party. No matter what party gets elected we're screwed when it comes to the debt (the accumulation of which I'd rather blame on the capitalistic boom/bust system and the American housing bubble than any particular governing party) but at least the Labour Party isn't going to abandon the needy within the nation. The post-war consensus quite clearly established that the point our current state is to ensure everyone has a net to land on, that nobody can hit rock-bottom. If the Tories get in we'll see them leave the people out to dry to weather the recession, their promise of a marriage tax-break is already looking uncertain, what on earth is going to be so new and revolutionary about them?

I am going to wheel out the old "lesser of two evils" arguement again, I'd rather have an incompetent capitalistic leadership, schooled in grammar schools, that at least attempts to maintain public services than an incompetent capitalistic leadership that chortled along at Eaton and ate their way out of many a prestigious restaurant.

I remember George Osborne once being asked what he was going to cut back on to weather the recession... "Less books from Amazon" was his answer; is anyone impressed with that?

Oh well, to conclude this long rant that probably lost its point: Don't whine about the Labour Party, whine about the whole rotten system. I don't see the Tories promising electoral reform, I do see Brown making a desperate pledge to discuss it... as cynical as I am toward it, at least it's progress that we won't get when the sheep in the general public decide they want a change simply because they'd sooner blame every problem on the ruling party. Does nobody remember the sleaze of the '90s?

Btw, how is your referring to Brown as "Cycloptic" any different to us referring to Thatcher as "Hitler"?

Well said

I don't know a lot about politics, it really doesn't interest me, but I can see where both sides are coming from. I also agree wholeheartedly with Henners (though I'm not sure America has a better system, it is different, but I don't see that it has brought better politicians to light or made it any easier to get rid of one who wasn't obviously corrupt or sleeping around) in that the system is at fault.

It's hard to find any hope for the future in the eyes of politicians. I just hope that they keep things chugging along and don't let the whole country spiral truly out of control.

And I like your style of arguing Mattyrm, you're persuasive for sure. You should go into politics yourself

mattyrm wrote:MDG. Cameron is posh so im voting for labour despite them being ABSOLUTELY fething gak for 12 years.

Did labour MPs not take the piss outrageously with the whole expenses thing? Ashok Kumar (Labour MP for Middlesbrough) and Vera Baird (Labour MP for Redcar) both took the piss massively, and yes, the labour monkeys up here will still vote for them.

Honestly, i cannot disguise my loathing for my fellow northerners. As i said, it hurts more getting fethed over by a family member than a stranger, and these fething Labour vermin that pretend to be all working class and "for the people" whilst simultaneously raping every lower class tax payer and swindling their expenses fill me with utter disgust. At least if a Tory does it you expect it!

Im voting in this order Tory, Lib Dem, Green, UKIP, any fether else at all, throw electoral votes in the fire, labour.

I think id rather have a giant inflatible penis in charge than Brown. He is actually such a thundercu*t im starting to think he is a bigoted SNP spy and he is purposely fething us so he can go back to Scotland and claim a victory.

Off topic, if by some miracle Labour do win, i shall buy you a pint In Nottingham to congratulate you on your doggedness. I can always respect that, even if i do think you are utterly delluded.

....

I do of course reserve the right to gloat uncerimonously if Dave brings the trophy home!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh yeah sorry just read albatross.. he basically said exactly what i was thinking in a much more sensible and less swear filled way.

Sorry for the late reply. Not been home for a few days.

But please re-read my post. I do say that I am familiar with Labours exact level of incompetence, not praising them at all. I won't vote Tory because I genuinely do not trust them. At all.

As for the MP's expense. Meh. Pretty much every single one of them had their noses in the trough to some degree or other, and sadly apart from a major shift in who exactly stands for election, the same piggies will be round the same trough in 2011. As for who claimed what, do remember the Expenses System has been in place for a long old time, and it's only the past couple (maybe five at most) years we the public have found out about. If Labour had more snouts in the trough, I guess thats down to them having you know, more MPs, being the reigning party. I wonder how much the Tories spent in the Thatcher years for example?

As for being called a Class-Warrior, I am, to a degree. But with the Tories, I really don't think they are the right people to be taking over in this economic state. They have sod all sympathy with the common man, having rarely actually worked for anything they have.

Caught a snippet on the news today, something about 'Call Me Dave' offering to scrap Uni Debts for those who pass out with the highest marks or something. Seems good, until you realise that those most likely to get the higher grades are, you guessed it, already form a privileged background. TRied looking for it on the BBC website and turned up nowt. Might be some kind of paranoid dream I had!

And just for the record, I actually object to the Party System. Hardly democratic when it's very much 'us or them'. Roll on a sustained period of hung parliaments. Make the piggies work together for once.

Btw, how is your referring to Brown as "Cycloptic" any different to us referring to Thatcher as "Hitler"?

He has one functioning eye - it's insensitive, but then your talking about a man who helped send mattyrm to war without the proper equipment. Equipment which could have meant the difference between life and death, and has done in many cases.

Comparing Thatcher to one of the most evil men in history is not in the same ballpark, it's not even the same sport (to paraphrase Pulp Fiction).

Oh I dunno. Go ask former Mining Towns what they make of Thatcher. Won't be favourable, I can tell you.

MDG wrote:Seems good, until you realise that those most likely to get the higher grades are, you guessed it, already form a privileged background.

Balderdash. My IQ is 139 and I'm top of pretty much all of my classes by a wide margin (I AM jockeying for position in one, though! ).

I was raised by a single mother on a council estate in one of the roughest towns in the country.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MDG wrote:Oh I dunno. Go ask former Mining Towns what they make of Thatcher. Won't be favourable, I can tell you.

Go ask Holocaust survivours what they make of the comparison of Hitler to Thatcher. THAT won't be favourable either.

Congratulations, you are the exception that proves the rule!

I can remember thatcher using british police to beat the crap out of people just trying to keep they jobs.
Thatcher blair and brown have all sent our boys of with crap or no equipment.
My mate was in the falklands with leaky boots etc.
My brother was in operation Granby (Desert storm to you yanks) with a gun that wouldn't fire.
Blair you know what he gave you gak

Albatross wrote:

MDG wrote:Seems good, until you realise that those most likely to get the higher grades are, you guessed it, already form a privileged background.

Balderdash. My IQ is 139 and I'm top of pretty much all of my classes by a wide margin (I AM jockeying for position in one, though! ).

I was raised by a single mother on a council estate in one of the roughest towns in the country.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MDG wrote:Oh I dunno. Go ask former Mining Towns what they make of Thatcher. Won't be favourable, I can tell you.

Go ask Holocaust survivours what they make of the comparison of Hitler to Thatcher. THAT won't be favourable either.

So you're an Alan Sugar; a small minority that manages to do well out of a bad system, does that mean the system works for everyone? Hell no.