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Wasn't he so far the only one who has written about them in recent years?

You could always have your own take at their fluff. Great thing about 40k is that nothing is fully set in stone.

wow, i almost feel bad for pointing it out, but you've got plenty of time before that book comes out. You also don't know what time frame the book is using. Please continue to do your thing.

More random thoughts for "counts as" Space Wolves... wolves and thunderwolf cavalry. For a chapter where wargear and equipment is limited, having organic allies would be a plus (though I wouldn't know how to explain their time to make the connection - and I don't know any MW fluff). Swap wolves/thunderwolf cavalry for some type of insectoid creature (mantoid?) to play up the chapter name perhaps? Acute senses and tracking would seem to make sense too...

Meh... I'm too stubborn to quit...it's just frustrating.

Should be a fun read in any case. Who knows? There might be some parallels in our stories then we think, and I'm sure he'll do a good job developing the main figures in the chaptr, which is something I haven't even considered yet. Here's hoping anyway...


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Well friends, it seems that we've taken this aspect of the blog about as far as it can go for the moment, pending my doing some reasearch on various codexes and the options they represent. I appreciate everyone's input and putting up with page after page of text... but the insights and ideas you've provided have been tremendously helpful and have changed (for the better) and clarified my vision of the Mantis Warriors. Thank you. If you have any other thoughts on the issues we've been talking about, please post them... I'm not closing down discussion, just taking advantage of a natural lull.

Next I'll return to the modeling (finally... talk about a "wall of text"). I'll go back to the Sternguard figures I was working on before. Probably the standing beakie because I can reach everything on the figure easily and it will display the paint job well. I also will need to make a few combi-melta's for that squad that are consistent with the look (i.e. the sniper bits)... so that will be an interesting project as well.

Got a couple of questions for you / requests for help with the P&M...

1. While I've been painting marines for a long time, I was never particularly good at it. I know there are a lot of tutorials out there... I was just wondering what were everyone's favorites. I really want to do these right & will be painting each model individually rather than cranking out entire squads en-masse. As I'm kind of thick... a tutorial would probably do me more good than just an example of a finely painted figure.

2. As you're parousing the galleries... please keep your eyes open for figures where the armor looks "worn" rather than damaged. I think this is right on the mark as far as the look I want, but it would help if I had a few examples of the kinds of effects I was trying to create.

3. To enhance the "snipey" look of the Sternguard/Tranquility snipers, I thought I might model camo cloaks & hoods on them... but I'm not sure how to deal with the backpack/cloak interaction. Any ideas would be welcome.

Thanks!

In regards to the book, the Title doesn't nescacirly (apologies for spelling) that the MW are going to be declared Traitor, it could be routine for a force that has seen so much Warp action to be scrutinised for any possible Taint, so maybe this "Trial" is more of an examination of the Chapter, thier fighting styles, how they will fit into a changed Imperium and wether thier Gene-seed is still stable.
You could work around this if the MW returned just before the 12th/13th Black Crusade, the Imperium would need pretty much every avaliable soldier to be ready to fight, so the 'Trial' could have been postponed, or maybe even completely cancelled.

In regards to the Battle Damage, Grey Death's Sons of Medusa Marine :

and the first image on Migs Alpha Legion http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/233990.page

Or they can be Pre-(their own)heresy MW
Or you can start playing CSM lol

Sons of Orars Sons of Orar are exceptionally weathered as well.

I guess I'd kind of assumed that the "Trial" referred to their crusade for redemption... aka "trials and tribulations". My disappointment came in that whatever is in the book will effectively become "cannon" for the Mantis Warriors and anything I do, rather than being a neat exploration of an undefined chapter... will be relegated to some second-class, "you didn't like the right rules so you made up your own", alternate version of what the MW's are.

But you know... s*** happens. You get over it and move on.

If he has the MW's going to chaos... that would probably be a bigger issue because then my take would just not be a slightly different mock-up of the chapter but a radical change from what will become the defacto RAW.

Thanks for the suggestions... I'm checking out & subscribing to those threads right now. Is there a way to subscribe to a thread without actually posting to it?

Click the subscribe button at the bottom left of the screen, bud.

Oh, and if cannon has them turn to chaos - maybe it's almost easier, yours are the last true MWs.

Just to say - before I started reading this thread, I had never heard of the Mantis Warriors. You guys have put forward an awesome synopsis, discussion and history; and now I feel like they have one of the best backgrounds out of the loyalist chapters. Great thread, I'll be watching

Thanks to you both! Sorry... still kindof a newbie at all of this.

Can't wait to get back to my mini's... have to start thinking about shades of green, washes, highlights and all that lot. After all of this talking and planning I need to build/paint something!

I didn't even think of your definintion of Trial, it actually molds into your fluff a lot better, that could definately be worked in

OK ... finally got to play with my fig's again...

Found some old, badly painted beakies that I got used. Figured since they'd have to be stripped before re-painting anyway that putting another coat of paint on them wouldn't hurt. Primed them white and started experimenting. These are quick and dirty... slop on paint and wash... just to choose color, nothing else. The actual figures will be much better done.

First pic shows the greens I tried. GW Scorpion Green, Valleo Light Green, GW Goblin Green and GW Snot Green



Then I painted up a couple of extra figures & tried out two washes, GW Thrakka Green and Valleo Shade Green. I don't like the Thrakka much because it has too much blue in it and has a tendency to overpower everything. If you let it settle for a few days, most of the blue settles out and it turns into a nice green wash. The Valleo I've never used before... it's less vibrant than the GW... more of a grass color. The Thrakka used here is normal (i.e. not settled down) as the kids were using my paints before hand and got it all shaken up.




The two on the far left are Scorpion Green with Valleo (left) and GW (right) washes.
The two in the middle are Light Green with Valleo (left) and GW (right) washes.
The next one is Goblin Green w/ GW wash.
The far right one is Snot Green w/ GW wash.

They are numbered for ease of referral... please let me know what you like.

Im gonna refer to the secong picture when i say the darkest one and the one that #2 from the left are the best looking one IMO

That or the second darkest one(the one that #2 from the right)

I like #2 and #6 as well, they have good contrast, the others kinda look off, either too bright, or not bright enough.

#4 and #5 and the ones that work for me...

Btw, isn't there any trim/secondary colour on those MW? I think my oponion might change alot if I saw them with the trim colour on

There was no trim on Mk 6 armor... that was a development in Mk 7. No, if you refer to the original photos on this thread (the only official artwork ever done to my knowledge), they're all green. Badge is yellow, black & red.

The figs all look better in person than the camera allows. If you double click on the photo and look at it in the gallery where you can zoom in a bit... some of that shows up there.

My problem with #6 is that there is effectively no shading on it at all... it's just a solid dark blue/green.

the best schemes are #2, #5 and #6.

I think that 2 looks the best at the moment, hard for me to picture the end product though

I like 4 and 5. With some high lights they could look really nice. Have you tried starting dark and layering up? Like a Dark Angel Green to Goblin green, Washed and highlighted?

Well, maybe these will help... I painted the one shoulder pad the original color so you can see what the washes did. As I said before, I'm not a very good marine painter so I'll be going through the "how to's" to try and do a decent job.

I'm diggin' 2 and 4

Your washes are pooling at a pretty big scale right now..

Instead of splashing on a whole lot to get a dark shading, layer it slowly.If I take the one marked with the 4 on his base, three or four layers would probably get the same dark colour but without the pooling on his greaves and his head..

that;s good advice

I like 4, and 5, myself, but colour choice is always a very personal thing. I just say go with what you prefer.

Oh, and I think 1, and 2 should get extra points for their cool disco dancing poses.

3 and 4 looks the part imo, but for some reason I'm drawn to 1 and 2, dunno why, but they feel more like mantis warriors to me

I'm going by the pictures in the http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Mantis_Warriors btw

I nicknamed 1 and 2 "the conga line".

If I go with the lighter base color (! & 2), they'll be using the same base as the Sons of Medusa chapter in the pic up above... which certainly gives me a lot of good source material and maybe a way to get painting advice. The Sons look beautiful, so I've got no problem with that. My existing MWs are a medium green, more like the original artwork... but it's a green that I haven't found a good way to reproduce with the currently available paints.

So the tally so far.

1 - 1 vote
2 - 6 votes
3 - 1 vote
4 - 5 votes
5 - 5 votes
6 - 2 votes

I've rewashed the shoulder pads using gretar's advice. 3 very careful washes, no pooling, etc. I won't post pics, but will use the results to educate my choice. Interesting that when you do that it's not so much a "wash" as a "tint" because you're not allowing the wash to do the pooling that results in the color gradient.

Having the models in-hand, I think I'll eliminate #'s 1 - 3. I know a lot of you liked #2, but in-hand even the re-done shoulder pad looked blotchy. Just too much variance between the base color and the wash, and few natural crevices in these old models for the wash to do what it's supposed to do. I actually think that #1 looked much better than #2. Either way, if I decide to go with the scorpion green base, I have the SoM blog to refer to... so I'm covered there. I don't think there was enough contrast with #3, so I'm dropping that one too.

I have two more paint/wash combinations that I want to try. I'll take more care with the wash on these so they'll give you a truer reflection of what one of my final models will look like. Who knows, I may end up relying on layering up rather than the wash to get my gradient as whalemusic suggested.

I'm gonna vote #2 and #6, looking forward to seeing some output!

I think I might have it...


This is color variation #6... that would be... Snot Green (or Army Painter's green primer), with Thrakka Green wash. Closest to my existing MW colors. Then I started up-painting. First I hit all the main areas that would not be in shadow with the Snot Green, then I did 2 rounds of highlights. Since most folks seemed to really respond to the scorpion green, I used that as my "lightener" instead of skull white or one of the other greens. I like the effect, and the Scorpion Green pulls in that yellowish tint that is very nice. Unfortunately I can't stand working with scorpion green as, while it's a great color... is a lousy pigment to work with. Anyway, first highlight was roughly 1/3 Scorpion, 2/3 Snot, second highlight was 2/3 to 1/3 of the same.

I also painted the base and washed the metal bits in order to give the figure a more finished feel.




I could do another layer of blended highlighting, just at the very most exposed areas that would be most (or entirely) Scorpion Green. I haven't done any lining of the edges yet. Do you think I should? If so, what should I use... pure Scorpion Green... or if I blend to that, a lighter version of the SG?

As to why I'm not pursuing the Scorpion Green as my base... seem's to me that Grey Death's SoMs do that about as good as can be done. I don't just want to try and copy what he's done (besides I'd come out poorly in the comparison), but have something unique... not, dark angles, not SoM, not salamanders... something else. Which is gettin kinda tough because there are only so many distinct greens around.