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schadenfreude wrote: 12" rapid fire is no loss for raider squads. The raider can still move 12", and because it's fast and open topped everybody inside can still rapid fire 12" away. The loss of a 24" static long range shot would hurt a foot army, but it's no loss for a mechanized raider army. As far as a mechanized army is concerned why pay points for something you never use like static 13-24" single shots.

Unless I've seriously misunderstood the rules, fast/open topped vehicles still do not enable embarked units to shoot if it moved >6" Oo?

Poisoned what? 5+? 4+?

schadenfreude wrote: 12" rapid fire is no loss for raider squads. The raider can still move 12", and because it's fast and open topped everybody inside can still rapid fire 12" away. The loss of a 24" static long range shot would hurt a foot army, but it's no loss for a mechanized raider army. As far as a mechanized army is concerned why pay points for something you never use like static 13-24" single shots.

Unfortunately, you are mistaken. The rules for embarked units on vehicles state that they may fire from the vehicle if it has been stationary or moved under 6". Fast vehicles allow the vehicle itself to fire if the vehicle has moved 6-12". There is nothing in the rules that allow the unit embarked upon a fast vehicle to fire while still embarked if the vehicle moved 6-12". The unit could, of course, disembark and fire after a fast vehicle moved 12", but not stay embarked and fire from the same vehicle.

RB page 70 wrote:FAST VEHICLES FIRING
Fast vehicles may move and fire more effectively than other types of vehicles.

Fast vehicles that move at combat speed may fire all of their weapons, just like other types of vehicles that have remained stationary (including ordnance barrage weapons, which cannot usually be fired on the move).

Fast vehicles that move at cruising speed may fire a single weapon (plus all defensive weapons, just like other types of vehicle moving at combat speed).

Fast vehicles moving flat out may fire no weapons.

RB page 66 wrote: Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves, and may not fire at all if the vehicle moved at Cruising speed that turn.


There is nothing in the fast or open topped vehicle rules that give any greater allowance for the embarked unit to fire, unfortunately.


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yakface wrote:

I have, from a very reliable source, that these rumors are a bit wrong.

The actual stats are as follows:

All poisons are 4+
Splinter Rifle 24" SX, AP5, Rapid Fire, Poisoned.
Splinter Carbine 18" SX, AP5, Assault 3, Poisoned.
Splinter Cannon 36" SX, AP5, Assault 4, or Heavy 6 Poisoned.
Spllinter Pods are an underslung weapon for the Hellions, essentially similar to the carbine.

Edited to add the Strength and AP values to the post.

I actually really like these states for the splinter weaponry. If the carbines are allowed on Raider Squads, it could make for some serious drive-by action. The imagery is plenty interesting, too.

yakface wrote:
I have, from a very reliable source, that these rumors are a bit wrong.

The actual stats are as follows:

All poisons are 4+
Splinter Rifle 24" SX, AP5, Rapid Fire, Poisoned.
Splinter Carbine 18" SX, AP5, Assault 3, Poisoned.
Splinter Cannon 36" SX, AP5, Assault 4, or Heavy 6 Poisoned.
Spllinter Pods are an underslung weapon for the Hellions, essentially similar to the carbine.

Edited to add the Strength and AP values to the post.

I can believe this, not because it comes from yakface (who is credible) but it's believable stats. STR X is what does it for me since STR is irrelevant for a poisoned weapon. I'm still curious as to what other special weapons Troops will have available to them.

yakface wrote:

I have, from a very reliable source, that these rumors are a bit wrong.

The actual stats are as follows:

All poisons are 4+
Splinter Rifle 24" SX, AP5, Rapid Fire, Poisoned.
Splinter Carbine 18" SX, AP5, Assault 3, Poisoned.
Splinter Cannon 36" SX, AP5, Assault 4, or Heavy 6 Poisoned.
Spllinter Pods are an underslung weapon for the Hellions, essentially similar to the carbine.

Edited to add the Strength and AP values to the post.

This is quite better, but I would ask, as someone before me, Poisoned@what roll? And there is another thing I don't understand very much. The Splinter Cannon being Assault 4 Heavy 6. Does it mean that the player can choose, or just maybe that there are 2 contradicting rumours and it's not sure? Anyway, it's cool seeing their range improved. If that stats are true, they will be much more popular, as usually Dark Lances are favoured over Splinter Cannons.

To use precedence for the splinter cannon, it would be determined by whether or not the models move.

If you're stationary, it fires as heavy 6; if you move, it fires as assault 4.

I believe there's a noise marine weapon that works the same way, correct?

Erasoketa wrote:
This is quite better, but I would ask, as someone before me, Poisoned@what roll? And there is another thing I don't understand very much. The Splinter Cannon being Assault 4 Heavy 6. Does it mean that the player can choose, or just maybe that there are 2 contradicting rumours and it's not sure? Anyway, it's cool seeing their range improved. If that stats are true, they will be much more popular, as usually Dark Lances are favoured over Splinter Cannons.

Unless it's changed, the rumor said poisoned on a 4+. I'm assuming the player has the choice of using the cannon as either Assault or Heavy. This is not unfamiliar to DE since the current Disintegrators for Raiders/Ravagers have a similiar option. Dark Lances are usually only taken in Warrior Sqds; for 100 pts you can get 2 DL's in a 10 man sqd. I usually take 2 squads like this just to provide cover fire and support while the Raiders zip across the field. Raider squads usually take the Cannon.

Well, these stats look much more realistic. The Splinter Carbine seems quite a bit more powerful though, but I guess we will see what unit ends up carrying them.

Rymafyr wrote:Unless it's changed, the rumor said poisoned on a 4+. I'm assuming the player has the choice of using the cannon as either Assault or Heavy. This is not unfamiliar to DE since the current Disintegrators for Raiders/Ravagers have a similiar option. Dark Lances are usually only taken in Warrior Sqds; for 100 pts you can get 2 DL's in a 10 man sqd. I usually take 2 squads like this just to provide cover fire and support while the Raiders zip across the field. Raider squads usually take the Cannon.

Well, I usually take 1 Dark Lance in Raider squads xD


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Irdiumstern wrote:Well, these stats look much more realistic. The Splinter Carbine seems quite a bit more powerful though, but I guess we will see what unit ends up carrying them.

Yeah, I don't think the Carbine will be an option for all the minis in a squad. 30 poisoned shots and then an assault could be too much xDD

Thank you yakface for this glorious bit of actual news.

I'm kinda bummed that Splinter Rifles are still Rapid Fire. I wonder to what degree we'll be forced to use them... Seems like they could just get rid of the Carbine and make the Rifles Assault weapons. But again, I don't know how the weapon distribution will pan out.

I do, however, LOVE the extra 12" of range they gave to the Splinter Cannon, as well as the option for a higher rate of fire when stationary. It'll be nice to see that signature DE weapon become used once again.

For those asking, the poison for all three weapons is a '4+'. It is included in the text I posted, right above the three weapon stats.

yakface wrote:
For those asking, the poison for all three weapons is a '4+'. It is included in the text I posted, right above the three weapon stats.

As we say in Spain: if it's a dog, it bites me xDDD

Erasoketa wrote:

yakface wrote:
For those asking, the poison for all three weapons is a '4+'. It is included in the text I posted, right above the three weapon stats.

As we say in Spain: if it's a dog, it bites me xDDD

Haha...around here, we say, "If it were a snake, it would have bit me."

Thank you all for much hilarity as I read the completely insane reactions to a rumor. I like the latest news with those revised stats, but yeah, I will wait and see!

Tbh some of the reactions were a bit OTT, but for the most part they were quite understandable. I'm still confused by an assault army having mainly rapid fire weapons . . . it just makes no sense . . . But then this is GW =p

Oshova

Oshova wrote:Tbh some of the reactions were a bit OTT, but for the most part they were quite understandable. I'm still confused by an assault army having mainly rapid fire weapons . . . it just makes no sense . . . But then this is GW =p

Oshova

Well, remember, there might be more than one actual viable build this time around. Plus there's always the reliable foot warrior squad with Dark Lances and Splinter Rifles to park on objectives or snipe from cover. The main objection was over the ridiculous speculation of a rapid fire weapon with 12" max range, which would have been useless.

Saldiven wrote:To use precedence for the splinter cannon, it would be determined by whether or not the models move.

If you're stationary, it fires as heavy 6; if you move, it fires as assault 4.

I believe there's a noise marine weapon that works the same way, correct?

Correct.

The sonic blaster is assault 2 OR heavy 3 depending on the movement state of the unit.

now these new stats are what may have just tipped me into a DE buying frenzy on release. Please don't fudge the models GW. please?!

I don't think you have to worry about them being fudged. From the shots I've seen floating, looks like they will be pretty cool.

As far as the models go, it'll be up to your personal preference only. With Jes Goodwin involved, you can guarantee they will be high quality sculpts; it really just matters if they appeal to YOU.

Uriels_Flame wrote:I don't think you have to worry about them being fudged. From the shots I've seen floating, looks like they will be pretty cool.

You know I really hate comments like these. Its like your dangling a carrot in front of me, if you've seen them post some damn pics or don't say anything!

Look in the big rule book pg 174. The really cool dark eldar guardian concept on the page. Aside from the necron faced helm you might have a possible concept of the direction of the art.

It doesn't matter - as you will buy them when they come out.

And don't say you won't, because there were plenty of people at the beginning of the year who wanted to "boycott" GW. But last I checked, I don't see GW being affected by any boycott...

Uriels_Flame wrote:It doesn't matter - as you will buy them when they come out.

And don't say you won't, because there were plenty of people at the beginning of the year who wanted to "boycott" GW. But last I checked, I don't see GW being affected by any boycott...

Well yea I'm gonna buy them I'm a huge DE fan I just want some mast- I mean a background for my desktop yea.

Uriels_Flame wrote:
And don't say you won't, because there were plenty of people at the beginning of the year who wanted to "boycott" GW. But last I checked, I don't see GW being affected by any boycott...

GW sales are down more than what the current state of the economy would indicate. The boycott over price hikes is having an effect on sales, but that doesn't mean that it is working.
The Board of Directors would have to stop listening to the magnifcents of GW's own hype and start listening to the chorus of complaints from their customers before the boycot could be said to have worked.

Also sadly the boycotters, and all other sensible people out there getting GW cheaper appear to be a minority. Sales may be down on veterans, but new people still being brought into the GW honey trap is still high. So a boycott has an effect, but not as much as standing outside GWs with banners about the insane cost of GW products . . . =p

Oshova

Oshova-GW's sales are not just all hunky dory at this time. Their sales have taken a major hit and this is happening just as the company has invested heavily into restructuring. GW's sales tanking is really hitting the company hard.

Oshova wrote:Also sadly the boycotters, and all other sensible people out there getting GW cheaper appear to be a minority. Sales may be down on veterans, but new people still being brought into the GW honey trap is still high. So a boycott has an effect, but not as much as standing outside GWs with banners about the insane cost of GW products . . . =p

Oshova

Except that the older players are not bringng newer players in as much. Word of mouth still plays a huge roll in sales ans those in the hobby right bow are not recommending it as much as they used to. I feel that this is part why GW's sales are lagging.

Honestly, GW is showing a lot of the signs of a corporation that is getting itself in trouble.
1) Poor money management(Retail outlets in overpriced mall venues? Constant unexplained price hikes that do not correspond with production or shipping costs)
2) Over expansion(Houston getting 4 new stores in a year?)
3) Cutbacks that lead to a lack of customer service(Getting rid of Questions help lines/E-mailed Questions never get answered, and just an overall failure to support their product with updates to problems in a timely manner)
4) Inflexible/unresponsive business model that fails to modernize.(Failing to capitalize on the modern phenomona of social networking, instead relying upon their fan base to do this for them, near archaic release schedule)

I do agree with you that the boycot should maybe become more vocal and these forums are a great way to det the word out.


BTW, "If" GW does get itself in deep financial trouble, I hope that they hang around at least long enough to update all of the codices.

Oshova wrote:Also sadly the boycotters, and all other sensible people out there getting GW cheaper appear to be a minority. Sales may be down on veterans, but new people still being brought into the GW honey trap is still high. So a boycott has an effect, but not as much as standing outside GWs with banners about the insane cost of GW products . . . =p

Actually GW's sales are not that hot right now. Go take a look at their financial reports over the last few years. GW has had to take a slash and burn policy when it comes to closing stores and laying off staff to get their costs down enough just to not be losing money.

The real issue is declining unit sales. If they take in 100 million pounds, hike the prices up 10% and then take in 100 million pounds, the number of actual sales of individual products has just dropped around 9%.

GW is currently (barely) profitable. They've come up with this new one-man micro hobby centre idea and are going to give that a try in places where their current model has failed. They're currently doing their best to get as much royalty income from video games and other licensing projects as they possibly can. I believe in their last couple of reporting periods GW was only profitable because of these royalties. They're actually failing to be profitable at their core business of selling miniatures.

GW is doing a very typical thing for companies that are failing at their core business. They first blame their expenses and slash jobs and close locations. Heck, they closed the central distribution centre for GW Canada and restructured it into GW US. Then they're trying to maximize revenue from new sources. There's no sign of any real change on how they go about their core business. And if the reliance on royalty revenue works, there won't be for quite some time. It's going to take real pain for GW to change their overall approach and as long as they can fire people to reduce expenses and bring in video game money to cover their losses, they'll avoid feeling that pain for as long as possible.

Just you wait until the Ultramarine Movie comes out. Kids will be flocking into GWS to buy these awesome looking superhumans! Just like with LoTR.

Oshova