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Archonate wrote:Nobody is angry or upset. It's just common sense that if you want to maximize your quantity of customers, you generate hype (via pictures, short videos, and tidbits of information) and give it sufficient time to spread throughout the fan base. It's not rocket science. And it's certainly nothing over which to get upset with people for pointing out.

The issue is that GW has 16 competing product lines(ie:armies) within one main product line(40k). When you leak a release date for a new army line LONG ahead of time,then fans of that army will start saving money back for new mini's. While they're hoarding money for that new army,they're not buying mini's for other new armies and/or their current existing armies. Hype for one army by the nature of their buisness model drives down sales for all the other armies,and as such doesn't really make money as many people would like to think. It's not like the video game console wars,where your product's pre-launch hype is taking dollars away from your competitors.

The other issues with a long-standing release notification is that GW has no guarantee that they're going to get that money that people are saving to buy massive amounts of a new release. Somebody could be saving for DE for 6 months instead of buying mini's,then all of a sudden loses their job and has to use that money to pay bills and GW loses. Or,they could blow that $ on an impulse buy like a new video game console,TV,or PC. Then you also have the issue of supply problems at launch when you've got people saving back mass amount of cash to blow on DE the second they drop.

Now now, that post makes too much sense and so therefore you will be called a fanboi because GW isn't revealing anything beyond 3 months out and you are defending them.

I, for one (and several many even though the vocal minority seem to think differently) think 3-4 months official notice is enough. Is it a bonus to see new minis 4 months out? Sure it is. Is it necessary to keep ME interested in buying? Nope. Once I've decided on an army that I know I want to buy I don't need to see pics of minis or know 90% of the rulebook to keep my interest in it. It's an army I'll buy, regardless of rules or minis.

It wouldn't matter if GW didn't make anything official until 24 hours before they put the new DE codex and minis up online. The army will still sell like mad, people will buy it and of course this being dakka people will bitch about X unit sucking hard even before they try said unit out in MORE THAN 1 game and GW will still keep making money.

Honestly, as soon as GW makes DE official in it's Incoming newsletter they don't HAVE to do anything more with them until launch day and they'll still be a huge success. It's only theory that months worth of hype will add to sales.

metallifan wrote:Yea, but the difference with Assault 2 and Rapid Fire is you can still make an Assault after using an Assault weapon. You can't do that after using a Rapid Fire weapon. That's where a lot of us are concerned, as that's a considerable mobility hit.

They could very well have that special rule...what's it called? I forgot.

The one where you can fire rapid fire weapons and assault....Hmm.

Samus_aran115 wrote:

metallifan wrote:Yea, but the difference with Assault 2 and Rapid Fire is you can still make an Assault after using an Assault weapon. You can't do that after using a Rapid Fire weapon. That's where a lot of us are concerned, as that's a considerable mobility hit.

They could very well have that special rule...what's it called? I forgot.

The one where you can fire rapid fire weapons and assault....Hmm.

Relentless

Relentless.

Or perhaps Phil doesn't see NOT being able to assault after unleashing 20+ poisoned weapon shots that hit on 3's and always wound on 4's no matter what they shoot at as being that big of an issue.

Warriors are like guardians. They are there for fire support, not front line assault. If people want to assault out of a raider that is what wyches and anything else CC oriented would be for.

I don't see CE players whining because the Serpent isn't open topped therefore bladestorming DA's have to sit in the open for a turn after having unleashed 30+ shots at a unit. Oh noes. Guess that means DA's in Serpents are junk. Er wait, they aren't. Funny that.

Damn, the DE might no longer be a one trick pony. Boohoo.

Whatever1 wrote:While they're hoarding money for that new army,they're not buying mini's for other new armies and/or their current existing armies.

That's absurd and honestly cannot be a real concern of GW's. Not previewing upcoming models (and I'm not even talking about giving a firm release date) doesn't help drive sales in other lines.

Whatever1 wrote:The other issues with a long-standing release notification is that GW has no guarantee that they're going to get that money that people are saving to buy massive amounts of a new release.

And, once again, previewing upcoming mini releases doesn't require a set date. It is quite easy to show off new models without setting exactly when they're going to be out. There's a reason the phrase "Coming soon..." exists. Marrying yourself to a release date only leads to problems when you cannot make that release date, which is why it's easier to preview the items in question without being specific about when exactly they're coming out. That way you can build excitement without immediate expectations.

GW does none of this though, instead taking the path of not letting us know anything until the last possible second. With a release as big (and risky) as Dark Eldar, this is a glaringly huge mistake.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Whatever1 wrote:While they're hoarding money for that new army,they're not buying mini's for other new armies and/or their current existing armies.

That's absurd and honestly cannot be a real concern of GW's. Not previewing upcoming models (and I'm not even talking about giving a firm release date) doesn't help drive sales in other lines.

Whatever1 wrote:The other issues with a long-standing release notification is that GW has no guarantee that they're going to get that money that people are saving to buy massive amounts of a new release.

And, once again, previewing upcoming mini releases doesn't require a set date. It is quite easy to show off new models without setting exactly when they're going to be out. There's a reason the phrase "Coming soon..." exists. Marrying yourself to a release date only leads to problems when you cannot make that release date, which is why it's easier to preview the items in question without being specific about when exactly they're coming out. That way you can build excitement without immediate expectations.

GW does none of this though, instead taking the path of not letting us know anything until the last possible second. With a release as big (and risky) as Dark Eldar, this is a glaringly huge mistake.

It doesn't drive sales of other lines up. Hype/previews drive the sales of other lines DOWN. For example,I play with a guy that was recently getting back into 40k. He decided he was going to do SW. Then,the new BA 'dex gets confirmed,he used to play BA,so he decides to just wait a few months for BA to come out instead of building SW and then turning around and doing BA. He was also planning to do 'nids as a second army,but with all the rumors circling around a new DE release,he's now waiting on them.

Previewing mini releases doesn't require a release date,but it IMPLIES strongly that those mini's will be coming soon. You get backlash when you preview a mini,but then 9 months later,it's not out yet. The other issue with previewing mini's without a release date is that your customer support gets inundated with questions regarding a release date.

A couple of months notice is last possible second? How much of a lead time do you honestly expect? Don't get me wrong,I would LOVE to have a detailed outline of everything that GW is putting out for the next 2 years,but it really isn't realistic. As for DE,at the rate GW is redoing armies,their redux basically buys them at LEAST another 5 year life cycle. The success/failure of their reboot isn't going to be determined in the first couple weeks of release. Besides,which,DE have had 10 years of internet hype/rumors to drum up interest.

Wait, does this mean DE will get new dark eldar warriors? What about the millions of 3rd edition starter DE that are in everyone's bitz box. I can't open up a container of 40k stuff without 10 falling out.

I hate to be the minority, but I love the dark eldar warrior models, they are neat and I think fit the character of the army, I hope the new sculpts don't stray too far from that.

And HBMC, I don't think Whatever1's opinion was absurd..GW loves money in the now, not in the future, just like everyone else. If you consider the recent recession caused a lot of consumers to put off big purchases, the wait and see mentality has some validity to it. I can see your point, that while I'm saving, I wont' be starving GW, because like most of us, I'll still buy my smack...lol.

Honestly, with all the GW hate going around, its hilarious so many people still buy their stuff year after year. GW makes me crazy with their codex escalation, but I like the hobby more than the game, luckily. The hobby will be increased by new models, new rules, new opportunities, I'm not sure the game will benefit from DE's new codex.

Nothing will be the same or recycled narceron so your warriors will be very "unique" (read: outdated) come november.

narceron wrote:

I hate to be the minority, but I love the dark eldar warrior models, they are neat and I think fit the character of the army, I hope the new sculpts don't stray too far from that.

Well I like them as well, I mean I have thousands of dollars of Dark eldar and I've grown attached to my warriors and my converted corsair/warriors.

But I think everyone needs change at this point. Even the old farts who will cling onto their nostalgic DE models will eventually come around to the new ones, even if it's after much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I'm looking forward to replacing my Raiders, warriors, Wyches, and adding to my Reavers and I've already sunk a lot of money into the army.

I think the older warrior models were a good concept, but the execution was lacking. DBZ hair guy is the worst offender of the bunch, but the heads were large-to-comical and the spike sprue was a touch silly as well. Posing could have been improved. If the new warriors resemble the more recent art they should keep enough of the classic look that DE vets won't have any real complaints to make while updating the range for the current scale and relative detail level.


And I don't see how preventing DE warriors from charging into assault after firing for a turn is going to turn the game on its head. Once in combat they're going to hit like pissed off guardsmen at worst. One big turn of shooting and an assault to hopefully finish off survivors should be a fine risk vs reward tactic. Get stuck in to try to stack on more damage, or keep your mobility but hope you aren't blasted off the board with counterfire?

Whatever1 wrote:
The issue is that GW has 16 competing product lines(ie:armies) within one main product line(40k). When you leak a release date for a new army line LONG ahead of time,then fans of that army will start saving money back for new mini's. While they're hoarding money for that new army,they're not buying mini's for other new armies and/or their current existing armies. Hype for one army by the nature of their buisness model drives down sales for all the other armies,and as such doesn't really make money as many people would like to think. It's not like the video game console wars,where your product's pre-launch hype is taking dollars away from your competitors.

The other issues with a long-standing release notification is that GW has no guarantee that they're going to get that money that people are saving to buy massive amounts of a new release. Somebody could be saving for DE for 6 months instead of buying mini's,then all of a sudden loses their job and has to use that money to pay bills and GW loses. Or,they could blow that $ on an impulse buy like a new video game console,TV,or PC. Then you also have the issue of supply problems at launch when you've got people saving back mass amount of cash to blow on DE the second they drop.

Fateweaver wrote:Now now, that post makes too much sense and so therefore you will be called a fanboi because GW isn't revealing anything beyond 3 months out and you are defending them.

I, for one (and several many even though the vocal minority seem to think differently) think 3-4 months official notice is enough. Is it a bonus to see new minis 4 months out? Sure it is. Is it necessary to keep ME interested in buying? Nope. Once I've decided on an army that I know I want to buy I don't need to see pics of minis or know 90% of the rulebook to keep my interest in it. It's an army I'll buy, regardless of rules or minis.

It wouldn't matter if GW didn't make anything official until 24 hours before they put the new DE codex and minis up online. The army will still sell like mad, people will buy it and of course this being dakka people will bitch about X unit sucking hard even before they try said unit out in MORE THAN 1 game and GW will still keep making money.

Honestly, as soon as GW makes DE official in it's Incoming newsletter they don't HAVE to do anything more with them until launch day and they'll still be a huge success. It's only theory that months worth of hype will add to sales.

Then there is people like me who have to save to cover my addiction. I only get so much to spend on gaming in a year, so not knowing has me spending my cash on Battletech rather than 40K. I only have bought 3 armies and sold off 2 of them, my second army(Eldar) has been entirely built with traded materials. Meaning GW gets no income from me nor others like me, and with this economy I bet it is a rather large portion of their players.

Whatever1 wrote:It doesn't drive sales of other lines up. Hype/previews drive the sales of other lines DOWN. For example,I play with a guy that was recently getting back into 40k. He decided he was going to do SW. Then,the new BA 'dex gets confirmed,he used to play BA,so he decides to just wait a few months for BA to come out instead of building SW and then turning around and doing BA. He was also planning to do 'nids as a second army,but with all the rumors circling around a new DE release,he's now waiting on them.

Only Games Workshop could build their entire company PR strategy around the notion that giving players sufficient information to buy the models they will be happiest with is bad for the bottom line.

Incidentally, the first boxed army I ever bought was the first Tau army when they were first released, about the time that must have been the high point of GW's rumour window. We must have been getting rumours about the Tau for over a year before they were released. And while the scaling back of the release window did not fully cause me to scale back my purchasing, it is not entirely coincidental that since the release window got shortened I have never bought a boxed army, regiment, or any other multi-set and have drastically slashed my GW spending.

Whatever1 wrote:Somebody could be saving for DE for 6 months instead of buying mini's,... Or,they could blow that $ on an impulse buy like a new video game console,TV,or PC.

I know you didn't mean it this way, but it's kind of scary that we're now at the point that buying a GW army is something you have to dedicate a committed savings plan for half a year but video game consoles, TVs, and PCs are impulse buys by comparison.

When a candy bar company comes out with a new candy bar flavor, do they leak it from the start of development?

Even if it's a variant on an existing bar?

or do they splash release it when the product is ready?


Right.


40k is an impulse buy.

It's not a car.

JohnHwangDD wrote:When a candy bar company comes out with a new candy bar flavor, do they leak it from the start of development?

Even if it's a variant on an existing bar?

or do they splash release it when the product is ready?


Right.


40k is an impulse buy.

It's not a car.

That's a pretty ridiculous comparison. I can buy a new candy bar without needing to dedicate 6 months to a saving plan in preparation. I don't spend weeks or months looking at Hershey's website to see high resolution images of their next candy bar (or Mars's website, where they let you see their new candy bars in 360 degree rotation) just to decide which candy bar is right for me. I don't expect the candy bar I buy to provide me with entertainment for years afterwards, through all of Hershey's future advertising campaigns. And most importantly, eating candy bars is not (at least for me) a social phenomenon. I don't need to get 6 of my mates on board to buy candy bars as well (making sure we all buy compatible candy bars, of course) to really enjoy it.

No, it's not.

The problem for you, is that you're poor.

GW's *real* customers walk in, see something they like, and just buy it. It's an impulse buy out of pocket money.

So by that logic why advertise at all?

JohnHwangDD wrote:No, it's not.

The problem for you, is that you're poor.

GW's *real* customers walk in, see something they like, and just buy it. It's an impulse buy out of pocket money.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

The Dreadnote wrote:So by that logic why advertise at all?

So that players impulse-buy a Skaven army or two when they pop out for crisps and a carton of milk from the corner shop?

personally i'm guessing if those stats are correct here is what your going to see on a warrior squad

size 10-20
type infantry

wargear
plasma grenades
splinter rifle
mesh armor (5+)

upgrades
sybarite +5 or 10 points

up to one warrior can replace splinter rifles with (if the squad numbers 20 two warriors can do this)
blaster +10
splinter carbine +5

up to one warrior can replace their splinter rifles with ( if the squad numbers 20 two warriors can do this)
splinter cannon +10
dark lance +15

if the squad numbers 10 models they can take a raider dedicated transport for +45 points.

The Dreadnote wrote:So by that logic why advertise at all?

Outside of The GW Hobby, does GW advertise at all?

I've seen LORs advertisements from GW when the movie was big... Other then that.. just via 3rd party, such as PC games and such.

Hey guys I've been hearing some really strange rumors lately and I want to know if any of you guys can shed some light on this. Lately I've been hearing that Codex: Dark Eldar won't be called Dark Eldar and basically the army won't be the DE we know today but more of a closely related to craftworld eldar focusing more on pirating.

Luthon1234 wrote:Hey guys I've been hearing some really strange rumors lately and I want to know if any of you guys can shed some light on this. Lately I've been hearing that Codex: Dark Eldar won't be called Dark Eldar and basically the army won't be the DE we know today but more of a closely related to craftworld eldar focusing more on pirating.

That doesn't even make sense. You can do whatever you want with your regular eldar, these are DARK eldar, something entirely different. There can be no "influence" on pirating, they embody pirating. They inhabit the webway, not craftworlds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

The Dreadnote wrote:So by that logic why advertise at all?

Outside of The GW Hobby, does GW advertise at all?

No, which is why they have no excuse not to be a better company.Although it usual works the opposite way. Just look at starbucks. I've never seen an advertisement for starbucks, which means they save A LOT of money on advertisements, so why don't they make their product cheaper? Because they don't have to! GW is the same way. It's a conspiracy, I tell you!

He might just be new to Dark Eldar and Eldar in general and confused by the rumours.

Originally the Eldar fluff had them as pirates before they became the Craft World Eldar we know today. Dark Eldar was a poor attempt to bring them back to their pirating roots.

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Luthon1234 wrote:Hey guys I've been hearing some really strange rumors lately and I want to know if any of you guys can shed some light on this. Lately I've been hearing that Codex: Dark Eldar won't be called Dark Eldar and basically the army won't be the DE we know today but more of a closely related to craftworld eldar focusing more on pirating.

Hey guys, I've been thinking this guy is a troll trying to stir up a flame-fest.

That doesn't even make sense. You can do whatever you want with your regular eldar, these are DARK eldar, something entirely different. There can be no "influence" on pirating, they embody pirating. They inhabit the webway, not craftworlds.

Here is some links from warseer I saw posted on 40konline.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4791429&postcount=510

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4791495&postcount=513

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4791535&postcount=518

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4792299&postcount=543

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4793359&postcount=564

I kinda figured I would have started seeing these in this site about now. I didn't find these I don't know how valid they are that's why I asked I'm hoping they are false rumors like the April fools ones.

He didn't say they were not going to be called Dark Eldar, just that the codex was not going to be called that.

I would look at it as Codex: Tau became Codex: Tau Empire.

Yea I guess I dunno I'm just hoping that all this is just BS that someone posted.

Im banking on a whole lot of BS. Sowing seeds of doubt! Not cool..

Hokiecow wrote:He didn't say they were not going to be called Dark Eldar, just that the codex was not going to be called that.

I would look at it as Codex: Tau became Codex: Tau Empire.

So perhaps they can go back to the obvious:

Codex: Chaos Eldar

Oh,okay, sorry. I took off that first part because I realized what you were saying, sorry if that was mean..