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Oshova wrote:Just you wait until the Ultramarine Movie comes out. Kids will be flocking into GWS to buy these awesome looking superhumans! Just like with LoTR.

Oshova

Except that the Ultramarines movie has considerably lower budget and distribution, what with it being straight-to-DVD and not a well publicized worldwide theatrical release.

Not to mention, Despite people insisting PG-13, we have no rating yet. It could very well be a movie for the older veteran fans that've been asking for it for close to a decade and a half.

off topic much?

kanelom wrote:off topic much?

Yes and no.

While not necessarily on-topic the conversation s touching upon factors that could affect the DE release and how GW might handle such.

There are a lot of factors that could affect the DE release and if the DE perform poorly it will only serve to re-inforce a false business paradigm that GW has set up and currently operates under. GW's history, the current economy, and the boycot is cause for further concern. Here is how I see it:

Problem: It has taken GW an overly long time to update the DE.

GW's excuse: DE were an army that never sold well.

Problem: GW never gave the DE a proper model launch.

GW's excuse: They weren't SM's. SM's are GW's best sellers so SM"s get the lions share of the promotional buget.

Problem: GW's business model is an established path to failure. That by singling out a product that is already known and giving that product the lions share of promotional attention, GW has established a corporate culture that blatantly fails to promote or provide a proper launch window for their other armies.(*Cough, 'Nids codex not available for previewing,*Cough, *cough, bs, *cough)

GW's excuse: The current economy has affected peoples ability to have enough money to buy our product. Because of this, sales are down and because sales are down GW decides to:

a) reduce the promotional budget for non-SM/non-Imperium model lines
b) Fail to provide enough or, in some cases, any of the newer unit models
c) Stepped-up the release schedule in a manner that crowds the non-SM models into a shortened sales window between two obviously rushed SM codices
d) Raise prices by as much as 20%

Problem: The customer reaction to these decisions are:

a) Non-SM players say, WT(Heck)?, why don't we get a preview? Well at least we got a codex.(Existing gripes within the GW customer base turn into a pervasive low grumble.)
b) Both SM and Xenos players say, WTH!, How do you expect us to buy a product that you didn't make enough of* or not make at all?(Grumbling within customer base gets louder)
c) Both SM and non-SM players say, WTF! Why are they releasing another codex that has poorly written rules and is missing models?(More customers join in with the grubling)
d) Most Players/Customers say WTF!!! You raise prices at a time when we have no money? I'm sick of this, I think we should boycot (Turns to friends and asks, Could you teach me how to play War Machines?)

*Hint to GW-this means they sold better than expected, maybe you ought to make some of these non-sm models

GW's attitude towards these complaints:

a) Be happy you got a codex xenos scum
b) The lack of sales on the armies that we failed to make models for shows that we were right in not making all of the models.
c) At least you finally got your codex, be happy you got it at all. While GW has an excellent customer service department for their models, if you have a complaint about the quality of our rule books, tough.
d) Bad economy? Unhappy customer base? Recent unjustified price increase? No release budget? Sounds like its time to release the armies that we treat like a red headed step child.


Concern/complaint- This last attitude ( d)bad economy, unhappy customer base, ect, ect,....)Is cause for concern when contemplating a DE release and GW's history, or lack there of, with promoting this army.

The question is whether GW's current path of relying upon DoW royalties and pushing the developement SM-centric movies/FPS video games will help or hurt the table top game/Hobby.

Defiler wrote:

focusedfire wrote:

kanelom wrote:off topic much?

tl;dr

Lurk moar

Still no idea's when the new codex is comming out then?

Best I heard was 'After the Fantasy rule book', and worst was February :(

I dont care about the stats, just make me some plastic talos!!!

Lifted from Warseer.

Originally Posted by Jared van Kell
Originally Posted by ericismyname
Released in the winter 2010/ Spring 2011
October/November this year.

Originally Posted by ericismyname
Phill Kelly writing Codex/ Jess Goodwin doing models. This is a GREATcombo!!!
Yep, the reasons its taken so long is that GW wanted to ensure that the range would actually sell and attract enough attention to warrant their return. Jes Goodwin now freed from completing the Spacemarine, Chaos Spacemarine and Chaos Daemon ranges has focused his entire attention on this range. Phil Kelly personally requested this codex.

Originally Posted by ericismyname
Harlequins and Avatars for Dark Eldar
Harlequins most definately yes, Avatar no, it remains the remit of their craftworld brethren.

Originally Posted by ericismyname
Many Poison Weapons
The rumour is correct on this. Splinter weapons are S2 poisoned weapons. Some of the heavier splinter weapons cause pinning as well.

Originally Posted by ericismyname
Talos getting armor value
Armour 13 Front. 11 Side and 10 Rear from my sources. It will be more akin to a dreadnought than a wraithlord now. It has S10 attacks and its Heavy Splinter Cannon can dish out an insane amount of firepower.

Originally Posted by ericismyname
up to 3 new skimmers
There is a lot of secrecy regarding these. They are still being worked on last I heard.

Originally Posted by ericismyname
New special characters
Two unit upgrades, one similar to pask for the skimmers. I've heard whispers about one used as a prisoner transport that is damaging to the morale of the enemy within 12".

Originally Posted by ericismyname
No word on anything getting dropped except Kruellagh.
According to fluff I've heard, Kruellagh is now dead.

On a side note the Mandrakes are extremely nasty apparently getting Infiltrate, Stealth, Move through cover and Poisoned attacks to represent their consumate skills as assassins/scouts and as to be expected they are rather nice in combat as well. They will have a unit upgrade in the form of the Decapitator who has the Instant Death USR and is a nightmare for enemy characters and squad leaders.

JvK

Not that I really cared or used kreullagh, but I hope they write some good fluff on how she died.

Hmm a pask like upgraded for skimmers... sounds interesting I wonder how they will pull it off.

Prisoner transport: YES YES YES! Now I have a reason to make a slave barge!

Nice that we are getting some more information on the talos. At first I didn't like the fact that it was going to be armored but now its kinda growing on me I hope it also gets a new model.

Sucks that we aren't getting an avatar I had a good conversion idea for one using the deciever and some other bits.

Why is it still winter 2010/spring 2011 when it says October/November? Are those most likely release dates and spring if they aren't released?

The non colored were speculations, the colored posts are confirmed (or as confirmed as rumors can get), ie they are most up to date.

Talos IS getting a new model. EVERYTHING in the range is, not one model, that will be included in the 'dex, will be untouched by Jes Goodwin.

So we basically have to forget the current DE range ever existed because in October/November every DE that will be in the new codex will have a new model. End of.

Yessss.
Slave barge = pure win IF it doesn't look like the current collectors slave models.

Have yet to hear about the jetbikes though, the whole aspect of a pure jetbike DE armour is too good of an idea.

And please oh please dont nerf combat drugs into abstractness.

That is all Santa

I imagine they did this one to make them fit more with the eldar. Another is if the range was 24 with poison and everyone in the unit had one that would be very powerful and would bring nids to there knees. This way they are a bit more balanced. I am sure they will have a few eapons up grades but imagine rolling up in a transport and then dropping 20 shots into a fex how brutal that is and how brutal that could be if it could be done across the board.


I can see them turning out the be beautifuly made glass cannons.

Well, 20 warrior poison +4 shots would be like 1-2 wounds after saves.

20 shots, BS 4 = 13 hits, 6.5 wounds versus a 3+ save is 2 wounds.

For 180 points + Transport, I don't think that's crazy. However, I think the rumors of rapid fire 12 are false.

Fateweaver wrote:Lifted from Warseer.

Sounds like a DE players wet dream. Harlequins? Plastic super powerful Talos? Three new skimmers?

Coming out by christmas and still no art, greens or previews of any kind.

Armour value for Talos is ok for me but: 13 front? we were told that the highest AV for DE army would be 11. Maybe it was just for the skimmers and regular vehicles?

Howard A Treesong wrote:
Sounds like a DE players wet dream. Harlequins? Plastic super powerful Talos? Three new skimmers?

Coming out by christmas and still no art, greens or previews of any kind.

Because this is GW we're talking about.
White Dwarf and the GW website will probably give an official announcement of the DE release, and a sneak peek at the new minis, about a month after they're released.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Sounds like a DE players wet dream. Harlequins? Plastic super powerful Talos? Three new skimmers?

Coming out by christmas and still no art, greens or previews of any kind.

Of course, DE would get Harlequins - that's a given. If GW are smart, they'll add Exodites and Crones as Elites, too. The metal Talos has aged poorly, and is horrible to build - plastic is a given. More Skimmers are needed, specifically Landspeeder / Vyper equivalents.

Is Christmas a hard date now? Published somewhere?

Most people now say October/November, with November currently more likely (October maybe Khemri or more High Elves).

And as it is a major release, GW will deny everything until the end so that as few potential customers as possible will buy it, the usual GW panic facing potential huge profits.

Kroothawk wrote:And as it is a major release, GW will deny everything until the end so that as few potential customers as possible will buy it, the usual GW panic facing potential huge profits.

The more I hear this line of reasoning, the more I laugh. You people take it as a personal insult. I'm sure if GW were suffering, they would change the way they do things.

Nerd rage is pretty powerful.

The way some people act over GW not revealing everything 12 months out reminds me of a [completely inappropriate analogy! Please remember the rules of Dakka Dakka.]

It's nothing personal people. Gamesday MIGHT reveal a lot more, or maybe nothing but if they make an official announcement in their Incoming article about a release date than who cares what is coming out, what the army plays like. Plenty will buy it (including me).

I'm betting money on August being the official Incoming announcement. That's good enough for me. Knowing more than that is just icing on the cake.

Nobody is angry or upset. It's just common sense that if you want to maximize your quantity of customers, you generate hype (via pictures, short videos, and tidbits of information) and give it sufficient time to spread throughout the fan base. It's not rocket science. And it's certainly nothing over which to get upset with people for pointing out.

It's also not something that armchair CEO's need to spew every 2 weeks in regards to GW's business model.

It somehow works or they would have gone under decades ago. It might not make the most sense (then again the way people carry on about it leads me to believe they aren't happy with the 90-120 second movie trailers shown in theatres either).

With the exception of Space Hulk GW has been pretty good at dropping the bomb 90-120 days out. So 3 months out people KNOW what army or miniature is coming out next.

I'm sure August "Incoming" will make DE official. If it does than I don't see what the big deal is. You know they'll be coming and what month and maybe even know what 1 or 2 of the models will look like. GD in September will probably reveal as much as GW will allow (or should I say Jess? Afterall, he was irked because somebody who didn't give a gak about how he might feel leaked pics of his harlies prior to when HE wanted them revealed) so by September anyone wanting to start DE should know enough to know what to save up for, how it's going to operate within the context of the army (for those who's only goal in life is to min/max and WAAC).

I'm sure H will call me a fanboi and this is kind of running off topic but bitching about how little they reveal won't accomplish anything other than getting the thread locked.

Good sources point to November meaning August will probably when GW makes it official. Even with the tight lips around GW these days I have a feeling by September a lot (or a good amount) of the codex will be leaked. As usual it'll all be rumors until the official release of the DE codex but really, do people really get that upset that they can't know what the next army in line for May of 2012 is or even for January of 2011.

4 months, IMO, is plenty of time to save up and plan an army. Impulse buys are what makes manufacturers money, NOT planned buys. There is a reason most grocers, in the states at least, make sure pop and candy are up near the checkouts. People don't normally plan to buy candy. They just see it there conveniently close to where they have to pay for their groceries and think "hmm, chocolate craving. I had better tide thee over."

So it's not rocket science to understand that GW probably relies more on impulse buys than people planning months out ahead. If impulse buys make them more money than any other method than their business plan works, as befits their attitude.

Fateweaver wrote:It's also not something that armchair CEO's need to spew every 2 weeks in regards to GW's business model.

It somehow works or they would have gone under decades ago. It might not make the most sense (then again the way people carry on about it leads me to believe they aren't happy with the 90-120 second movie trailers shown in theatres either).

With the exception of Space Hulk GW has been pretty good at dropping the bomb 90-120 days out. So 3 months out people KNOW what army or miniature is coming out next...


I'm sure H will call me a fanboi and this is kind of running off topic but bitching about how little they reveal won't accomplish anything other than getting the thread locked...

As usual it'll all be rumors until the official release of the DE codex but really, do people really get that upset that they can't know what the next army in line for May of 2012 is or even for January of 2011.

Gee, I think most of us were just taking the mickey, ya know? Having a laugh? The GW secrecy is pretty much a running joke by now. We make fun because it seems like a daft way to do business and so it's an easy subject to get laughs out of.

Anyhoo, back on topic, I'm really looking forward to Dark Eldar. They'll definitely be my next army.

I dno does anyone else have an idea of what they want, and then get the Incoming!, check the advance order section, and slowly slowly start wanting more and more the more you see the models and come back to check?

Maybe thats just me.. but that just cost me a Valk + Vindicare... (and they're OLD!) and provided DE Jetbikes are nasty in CC/well modelled it'll probably cost me a whole lot more.

Having people's 10 year wait dangled in front of them for three months in the advance order section is def going to rack up the Xmas list.

As for why no news yet, WFB new edition right? They've got to plug that first. Wait til after.

You all realise that because DE has a strong tentative release date the DE manufacturing plant is somehow going to explode and be destroyed in a fire. Then the poor DE players will ahve to wait another 10 years for new molds to be made starting the cycle again.

Fateweaver wrote:It somehow works or they would have gone under decades ago.

That's a great accounting method. "This particular practice must work! Because our company is still going! And so logically because our company is still going now, we are guaranteed to still be going indefinitely in the future!" Think of how much investment you could secure with a sales pitch like that!

It's not like a company would ever try to hide their failed policies by just raising prices on the same-quality or sometimes even inferior products and blaming this increase in cost on fluctuations in the cost of tin. Nobody is crazy enough to try that!

Their secrecy is a running joke, and utterly unnecessary. It was exemplified in no greater fashion than the Mystery Box/Space Hulk debacle, a string of stupid attempts to hide the truth, including outright lying and threats against staff, to keep something coming out in September secret when we had known about it since February (as that's when the first reports started showing up).

That said I don't think GW is being intentionally secretive about DE in any specific way. You want to show needless secrecy - previews of the new Warhammer that accomplish nothing, a failure to use their website as an effective tool to convey the changes within the rules, leaving thousands of players in the dark as to what's about to happen, limiting previews within GW stores (but that's more of a manager thing and less of a GW corporate thing, so you can't exactly blame GW for that), and the continued amateurish use of their web presence as a whole. Or telling us that Daemons are coming without showing them (why bother?) or that a new Fantasy Starter Box is coming without telling us what it is (why bother?).

Are they keeping Dark Eldar a secret? No. They haven't got to the 'window' in their release schedule where they start telling us that they're keeping a secret.

Fateweaver wrote:I'm sure H will call me a fanboi and this is kind of running off topic but bitching about how little they reveal won't accomplish anything other than getting the thread locked.

Fanboi.






What? You asked me to...

As I said, Jes might want GW to keep most or all of his minis a secret until he is ready to reveal them.

If it's a personal request people should respect that. I know he was miffed about the Harlequins being leaked weeks before he wanted them to be shown so it wouldn't surprise me if he expects the same from his colleagues and fans for DE.

If that is his wish (and we'll never know unless he makes an announcement himself regarding his wishes) people should respect that wish and not get all worked up if "OMG GW WON'T SHOW US WHAT ANY NEW MINIS LOOK LIKE BECAUSE THE DESIGNER IS BEING A TOOL".

I expected all the metal models to get new plastic sets, with rules meant to sell....but the entire range is getting redone?

I am very excited. I had to sell off my Dark eldar after I kept breaking them every time I took them anywhere, I just hope the new models are a little more sturdy,

narceron wrote:I expected all the metal models to get new plastic sets

well they're all new at least but some are still metal

I'm guessing the SC will be metal, maybe even certain units but I'd have to believe 95% of the range is plastic.