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themrsleepy wrote:So, if all the races were created by the old ones.... maybe they all have failsafes, and the survivor is the one that figures out the failsafe off switch and blackmails the other races into killing the tyranids and crons unabashadly or watch their whole race be destroyed.


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Or tyranids eat enough orks to become able to hive mind them into submission and tryanorks kill all...

Can't see it happening, sorry. Not that you're wrong, it's just there is no evidence for it. Maybe the next 'cron codex will support your theories, though.

If everyone wants to talk about orks uniting and the c'tan coming back can we introduce the theory of the emperor, most beloved of all, returning? Because if he does its over for any other race out there. The necrons cant handle him, from the theory i understand it was the emperor that placed the viod dragon on mars in the first place. We have seen what he can do to a very large ork empire in the stories in Horus rising. Nids... please. Any one recall maccragge? and that was a fresh fleet taken out by the ultra marines and the imperial navy. Not to mention how one company and a titan legion held back the invasion on planet side. Eldar suck, Tau suck, Chaos is a problem but with the emperors return they would also fall. (imagine the wrath you would have after having to sit on a toilet for 10k years because of some spoiled cry baby you should of dropped in the first place) Distract the dark eldar with a blow up doll and you have them covered. Or you can consider their lack of numbers slowly getting to them.
If this isnt good enough for you just put every space wolf on a thunder wolf mount and give him a thunder hammer and let him go to town

Chosen Praetorian wrote:If everyone wants to talk about orks uniting and the c'tan coming back can we introduce the theory of the emperor, most beloved of all, returning? Because if he does its over for any other race out there. The necrons cant handle him, from the theory i understand it was the emperor that placed the viod dragon on mars in the first place. We have seen what he can do to a very large ork empire in the stories in Horus rising. Nids... please. Any one recall maccragge? and that was a fresh fleet taken out by the ultra marines and the imperial navy. Not to mention how one company and a titan legion held back the invasion on planet side. Eldar suck, Tau suck, Chaos is a problem but with the emperors return they would also fall. (imagine the wrath you would have after having to sit on a toilet for 10k years because of some spoiled cry baby you should of dropped in the first place) Distract the dark eldar with a blow up doll and you have them covered. Or you can consider their lack of numbers slowly getting to them.
If this isnt good enough for you just put every space wolf on a thunder wolf mount and give him a thunder hammer and let him go to town

Behemoth was the smallest of the big 3 hive fleets. If our information is right, then the tyranids have a lot more than the few we have seen.
The tyranids can't lose. Like orks, if there's just a few of them, they can come back. Look at IA 4 and the Octavian War. Also, according to recent fluff, the tyranids are not warp-based, they are instead relying on the mental power of the hive-mind.

Nids really aren't that scary compared to how some of the other races could be, they are just the most scary now.

When the necrons wake up again there will be milllions of them, and they can't every die. It's almost impossible to attack them on your terms and they will target you weakpoints. If the do tyranids run out of food in this galaxy they it's unlikely the necrons will just let them go. The C'tan would have a huge source of food in one place, and the nids major strength would be gone. The best they do would be to recycle which would reduce losses but it wouldn't be enough.

Without the imperium (which will eventually fall to the tyranids) the orks will have as much room as they need. Orks major problem is that they fight each other, however the old ones did very well making the perfect weapon. The bigger force they face the less they fight each other. A Battle with the tyranids is going to drawn billions of orks. The harder the tyranids fight the more the faster the orks will come. Yes the tyranids will take planets but they won't be able to sustain it. Eventually the losses will overtake the biomass gain. An planet infested with orks won't be a very good meal, it will have been stripped and turned into a wasteland.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

Actually, that bit about their tech level being set is not true. Big meks are constantly experimenting with both other races' technology and inventions of their own (the Deffkopta is an excellent example of this) and as such the ork tech level is constantly increasing as they come into contact with new races. To assume they are incapable of organising themselves is also not true; given a common foe, the orks will generally choose to fight it rather than each other, as the instinctive hatred of anything not green takes hold.
Also, the idea of reprogramming orks is completely impractical and also doomed to failure. Almost all current life was created by the Old Ones, including the Orks; they are not unique in this respect. Therefore to assume they have a failsafe where other races don't is illogical.
Finally, whether a spore turns into an Ork or not depends heavily on whether there are other greenskin spores nearby. this is why Armageddon had massive ork infestations after the second war for Armageddon, even when the invading Orks had left. Just a bit of info I thought you might like.

I do like info.

Just the impression ork fluff gave was orks 'gain access to hidden inbred knowlegde', not really inventing something 'new'.
Orks may gather in a group of flexible size and choose to ignore the other greenskin to assail the non-greenskin, but really they are not going to keep to it .
Orks would leave if they feel to find a better fight in another group. It was to general to call it lack of organization. Seems too much chaos than order to me, so I choose to
see it as disorganised.

Why should it be impossible to reprogram a arftificial race whose knowledge isn't learned but inbred? Would they really pay attention to a change?

Spores.
Spores act alone, but alter their aim if more spores are around? How do they interact?
If there is any communication, this can be exploited and corrupted/changed.

Think about ti this way:


A Big Mek saw a Titan once.

He decided HE wanted one of those.

So he made one.

Thus Stompas and other Ork titans were born, quickly spreading throughout the galaxy anywhere they were needed.

A Big Mek decided he wanted to ensure his boyz got into combat in a boarding action. So he created the galaxy's most powerful force fields-- just the right kind for ramming and boarding. Also useful for orbital insertion, too, and even with a smaller version for the boyz on the ground.

Tractor beams? Yep. Teleporters? Yep. Gravity machines that can pick enemy vehicles up from a distance and toss them about? Yep.

Ork technology comes in leaps and bounds, and the galaxy shudders to think of what they will invent next.

Spores are released in groups by orks throughout their life cycle. As a result, they tend to end up in the same area, and thus develop into greenskin life. That help?


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Also, meks are programmed with the basic knowledge of engineering and physics, not specific designs. They learn to build things in the same way as humans do, just a lot quicker due to this.

I think the orcs are nothing but more biomass for the nids to devour in their pursuit to purge the galaxy of life.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Spores are released in groups by orks throughout their life cycle. As a result, they tend to end up in the same area, and thus develop into greenskin life. That help?


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Also, meks are programmed with the basic knowledge of engineering and physics, not specific designs. They learn to build things in the same way as humans do, just a lot quicker due to this.

Yep. Humans have to go to college to learn what Orks know by instinct.

Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:I think the orcs are nothing but more biomass for the nids to devour in their pursuit to purge the galaxy of life.

I'm sure you do, but 40k doesn't have Orcs.

Hmm, all this orky talk makes me want to go smash some of them "big 'umies" in dowii

Considering both Eldar endgame plans (Rhana Dandra and Ynnead) involve their race being killed wholesale, I can't imagine why anyone would vote for them.

Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:I think the orcs are nothing but more biomass for the nids to devour in their pursuit to purge the galaxy of life.

Melissia wrote:I'm sure you do, but 40k doesn't have Orcs.

wow what a snappy comeback for a spelling error.

Technically there will be 2 races standing not one, the tyranids will wipe everything off the galaxy and move on towards another galaxy (they will avoid dead worlds), the necrons will go back to sleep to repeat the cycle, so 2 races not one.

(and chaos dies because all psychic races are wiped off the galaxy)

I wouldn't call 200 worlds out of a galaxy of millions all that meaningful. It's less then cutting off a toe to avoind gangrene.

Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:

Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:I think the orcs are nothing but more biomass for the nids to devour in their pursuit to purge the galaxy of life.

Melissia wrote:I'm sure you do, but 40k doesn't have Orcs.

wow what a snappy comeback for a spelling error.

You had the spelling error first stud, Orcs are fantasty, Orks are 40k.

The Imperium, for I am not a heretic!

I feel the Tyranids are over-hyped. They're going to spend the bulk of their strength on the Imperium and Terra's defenses as they follow the astro-whatchamacalit beacon. Biomass recovery? Space battles brother.

And being able to eat your enemy? Only good for after you kill him, if he lets you. I like the Imperium's chances one on one versus the Nids. Exterminatus here we come!

No one.

Every race has a hypothetical auto win scenario, however, they are just that. Hypothetical. Orks will never unify as a single warband, Necrons will never harvest everyone (a true farmer never would anyway), the Imperium can't focus enough on a single goal (much like the Orks I suppose), Eldar(including DE) are focusing on surviving, Tyranids aren't eating everyone fast enough, Tau, Chaos wouldn't exist without everyone else.

Nids for the galaxy, Orks for da ooniverse.

Funnily enough everyone is saying that it comes down to Tyranids or Necrons. Yet neither of these races stick around at the end, even if they 'Win'. Nids bugger off to another Galaxy and Necrons go back to sleep. Neither race is left standing with the galaxy in their hands. I can easily see the remnant humans and orks fighting for the scraps as the two superpowers leave.

And, apart from deamonic infestation, there's little to suggest that the Dark Eldar won't be sitting back and laughing at the whole thing.

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:

Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:

Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:I think the orcs are nothing but more biomass for the nids to devour in their pursuit to purge the galaxy of life.

Melissia wrote:I'm sure you do, but 40k doesn't have Orcs.

wow what a snappy comeback for a spelling error.

You had the spelling error first stud, Orcs are fantasty, Orks are 40k.

And Orks are MUCH more awesome than Orcs.

Now, GOBLINS are the awesomeness of WFB. Mmm, spider riders...

Anyway, yeah. As long as you're pushing an end-game scenario, it's difficult for Orks to lose. Just about any end game scenario involves a huge amount of fighting all across the galaxy.

Just the kind of thing necessary to unite the Orks, because the only thing better than fighting another Ork is fighting a non-Ork.

4M2A wrote:
When the necrons wake up again there will be milllions of them, and they can't every die.

Conversion Beamer = dead necron that won't be coming back due to his body being instantly converted into energy. 'nuff said

Golden Sabres wrote:

4M2A wrote:
When the necrons wake up again there will be milllions of them, and they can't every die.

Conversion Beamer = dead necron that won't be coming back due to his body being instantly converted into energy. 'nuff said

Resurrection Orb. A titan can step on a Necron but if one of those orbs are around he's still getting right back up.

Imperium somehow. THEY WILL PULL THROUGH!

Azure wrote:Resurrection Orb. A titan can step on a Necron but if one of those orbs are around he's still getting right back up.

Stepping on a necron might destroy its shape, but it'd keep its composition.

A conversion beamer changes its substance (it literally converts mass into energy), therefor making it impossible for the Resurrection Orb to work.

necrons would get to the emperor first having a c'tan right next to him (mars)

Melissia wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Spores are released in groups by orks throughout their life cycle. As a result, they tend to end up in the same area, and thus develop into greenskin life. That help?


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Also, meks are programmed with the basic knowledge of engineering and physics, not specific designs. They learn to build things in the same way as humans do, just a lot quicker due to this.

Yep. Humans have to go to college to learn what Orks know by instinct.

Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:I think the orcs are nothing but more biomass for the nids to devour in their pursuit to purge the galaxy of life.

I'm sure you do, but 40k doesn't have Orcs.

lolz


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Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:Imperium somehow. THEY WILL PULL THROUGH!

doubt



doubt




doubt




doubt


because humans definitely will live longer than
a. nids. nuff said.

b. gian tgreen humanoids that when onne dies 5 more grow from the spores

c.metal skeletons that when they die, get up again, led by gods that could destroy terra by farting at it

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:Imperium somehow. THEY WILL PULL THROUGH!

I admire your loyalty.

Melissia wrote:

Azure wrote:Resurrection Orb. A titan can step on a Necron but if one of those orbs are around he's still getting right back up.

Stepping on a necron might destroy its shape, but it'd keep its composition.

A conversion beamer changes its substance (it literally converts mass into energy), therefor making it impossible for the Resurrection Orb to work.

There's also the little issue that every time a Necron is 'killed' it comes back slightly more slowed.

stompydakka wrote:
a. nids. nuff said.

Only real threat to humanity (and everything else) once you think about it, but their true numbers are little more than rumours and conjecture.

b. gian tgreen humanoids that when onne dies 5 more grow from the spores

Mankind has been fighting, and winning, against Orks for the better part of its existence. I'm sure they'll do fine.

c.metal skeletons that when they die, get up again, led by gods that could destroy terra by farting at it

Their Gods are weak, nothing like the Legends of old. It will be a while before they get their power levels back up.

Scrabb wrote:I feel the Tyranids are over-hyped. They're going to spend the bulk of their strength on the Imperium and Terra's defenses as they follow the astro-whatchamacalit beacon. Biomass recovery? Space battles brother.

And being able to eat your enemy? Only good for after you kill him, if he lets you. I like the Imperium's chances one on one versus the Nids. Exterminatus here we come!

The Tyranids are a space-dwelling race by nature. Logically, they are going to be more than capable of reclaiming biomass in space if they can do it in what is, to them at least, an alien environment to the degree that they do.

Also consider that the Tyranids aren't only looking for worlds populated by humans/Orks/Eldar etc. Any world with organic matter is good, and heck worlds that are rich in suitable minerals are prime targets to. The IoM can exterminatus the heck out of the worlds the Tyranids are fighting them on all they like - all the Tyranids have to do is consume a few worlds that the IoM isn't on and their strength is restored, and that's an easy enough task given how it's almost impossible to see what they are doing under the Shadow. Kryptman's "biomass denial" strategy was terribly flawed. The IoM will back itself into a corner long before the Tyranids run out of worlds to consume.

I think Necrons. Them and Nids are the only ones with a chance.