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Made in gb
Mysterious Techpriest







Ravenous D wrote:Clearly GW will respond to your letters by increasing the prices due to the need for a bigger mail box...


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/17 16:50:40


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



England

Ravenous D wrote:Clearly GW will respond to your letters by increasing the prices due to the need for a bigger mail box...



hah

I could just imagine this "sadly due to the recent increase in mail we must ask customers to submit a cheque for 50p for us to open/read their mail due to the costs of maintaining a mailbox...oh and we need to pay some kid £2.50 an hour to open them! (but only when hes not polishing Master Kirby's nails)

   
Made in us
Plaguelord Titan Princeps of Nurgle




Alabama

Nüb wrote:You can't argue guys, thats not a salution. If you want to sell your army and buy death korps, we get it but it doesn't really help. However if thats what you want we see your point, go for it!

However it needs to stay on topic, the point is, writing several letters, if not a template letter so every one can add flavor, we just need some one whom is decent at writing such a thing.
(Where is Ben Franklin when you need the guy!?)


Here's Kirby's open letter that he's asking to be posted on Blogs or sent to GW:

http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/2011/05/open-letter-to-games-workshop-embargo.html

WH40K
Death Guard 5100 pts.
Daemons 3000 pts.

DT:70+S++G+M-B-I--Pw40K90-D++A++/eWD?R++T(D)DM+

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Made in gb
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




England, UK

Tailgunner wrote:Where have you been. This kind of thing is standard on GW-related forums. For some reason people are then upset when their indiscriminate ranting falls on deaf ears.


Oh, I've always been here. I've just never seen it projected with actual faces and names behind the aggression. Anonymity on the internet plays a big part in people ranting indiscrminantly, but when that handle turns into 'Joe Bloggs from the UK' suddenly he's an actual, paying customer rather than a faceless pundit on the interwebs.

L. Wrex

INITIATIVE 10 - painting, modelling and gaming in the the 40k universe.
http://initiative10.blogspot.com/

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<Lycaeus Wrex> rolls 7 dice, 4+ to hit, Strength 6 against Armour 12...
* 0 out of 7 dice hit (4+) = (1,1,1,1,1,1,1) 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord





In all honesty, I've had enough, Dark Eldar is my last 40k army. I am going to go back to War machine, my Khador does need some love again..

I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member. -Groucho Marx

 
   
Made in gb
Mysterious Techpriest







puma713 wrote:Here's Kirby's open letter that he's asking to be posted on Blogs or sent to GW:

http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/2011/05/open-letter-to-games-workshop-embargo.html


Spoiler:
To Games Workshop,

Why? No seriously, why? I'm sure the excuse of cutting off Australasia and other countries (Canada, India, Korea, South American countries, etc.) to benefit the independent and GW store sales in Australia sounded good but unless you cut the prices here to not be a ridiculous 200% higher price than overseas, it's not going to happen. Let's look at this logically. You've stopped us from buying from stores like Maelstrom and Wayland with an embargo agreement in your Terms and Conditions (remember globalisation? how's that going btw?). Does this mean we are going to now buy at RRP in Australia or other countries? No.



There are other outlets overseas we can buy from which are still much cheaper (hi America), other companies which you cannot touch without raising a helluva lot of crap (hi ebay) and people who are willing to ship to us overseas (hello family and friends) without the 200% tax. We won't be getting as huge a discount as before but it's much better than buying here at RRP. The other option is of course going to be quitting which I imagine some people are going to do. Check out this thread on WargamerAU where a lot of people are indicating they are. The ultimate bottom line? Your bottom line suffers (more people leaving) and the retailers in Australia do not benefit.

Now I'm all for one in supporting the locals. I buy all my products such as spray paint, paints, plasticard, magnets, drills + bits, modelling putty, brushes, etc. from Australia. As an aside, do you actually stock good quality merchandise for all of those options? I don't see you selling plasticard, magnets, good sized drillbits, custom bases, etc. I'd be happy to pay a 5-10% premium on these objects compared to other stores to support your business but then again, I don't really want to support your business currently do I? The point of any business is to make a profit but the problem with your business model is you do not do this whilst concurrently supporting your customer base. We don't ask for much but a short list would look like...

not raising prices every year, without fail, regardless of the economic situation or inflation rates
basing prices around the world upon exchange rates (I wouldn't be averse to paying 20% more in Australia compared to the UK or America locally but I am adverse to paying twice as much) - there are circumstances in each country that make operating there more or less expensive but you need a base retail price for your product which is then translated by exchange rates at a given time (i.e. quarterly) rather than a price set many, many years ago. It's part of being in a global market.
regular and quick FAQs - you've done a fantastic job IMO of creating some pretty balanced books for 5th edition, fix the grey areas quickly.
official erratas - man up and admit you've made mistakes (hi Tyranids) and work on erratas that are official and re-print the books with these amendments. Admitting a mistake and fixing it isn't a problem and I'd applaud you for it. Ignoring a problem is.
fix Fantasy - you did it with 40k, why go backwards with Fantasy?
don't think your customer base is moronic - the resin re-cast to be cheaper than metals whilst hiking prices, not fooling anyone.

Ultimately people in Australia and other countries go overseas for their Games Workshop products for a reason: it's significantly cheaper (I.e. half price). What motivation is there to therefore buy from our locals when you aren't treating your customers with loyalty and support? People will walk away and your bottom line will hurt. A simple solution: care about your customers. Change the Australian (and other countries) prices so they are at least similar to the UK and US. This doesn't have to be the exact same price but some parity would be greatly appreciated.

Here's a quick example. If you could buy a similar product for $45 compared to $150, what would you do? How about if the product was the exact same but if you ordered it overseas it was $80 compared to $150 by the time it reached your door step? I'm pretty sure you'd want to take the cheaper option correct? For you as a company, you make your profit margin through the reseller regardless of where it is purchased. You may make more money off a direct sale at an Australian store compared to an Internet sale from the UK but you have already achieved the profit margin from the Internet sale already. The Australian stores may be hurting but this is down to the initial price you have set, not market trends. Simply put, you are alienating customers from a large and developing market.

I and many of the readers here obviously enjoy your game. We've played it through thick and thin (4th edition...) or come back thanks to an improvement game balance (5th edition) and don't want to leave. We will though sooner or later if you keep piling on idiotic choices on us. Other companies like Privateer Press did very well in the early to mid-2000s for a reason and people will migrate to other gaming systems if you continue to mistreat them and their loyalty.

As it stands I question why you do the things you do. Raising prices every year annoys me but I cannot complain too loudly as your products are a luxury item but you do not provide excellent customer service one usually expects with such goods. I certainly find minimal fault with your staff or when your product is damaged/faulty but your overarching business model seems counter-intuitive to maintaining a customer base. Even if you are getting a large amount of new customers imagine how much better off your company would be if you had maintained a significant portion of your repeat customers. The model you are running currently to me does not seem sustainable as your turnover rate in customers is just too high. I applaud your efforts in making 40k 5th edition a more competitive game but what you've done to Fantasy 8th edition doesn't bode well for the future.

Please, look to satisfy both the shareholders and the customer rather than just the former.


not sure if good, seems a bit longwinded
   
Made in us
On a Canoptek Spyder's Waiting List





Edit: Ninja'd

Nüb wrote:
However it needs to stay on topic, the point is, writing several letters, if not a template letter so every one can add flavor, we just need some one whom is decent at writing such a thing.


<YourAddress>

<DateOfWritingLetter>

Games Workshop
Willow Road
Lenton
Nottingham
NG7 2WS

Dear <NameOfGamesWorkshopEmployee>,

I am writing to inform you of how displeased I am with the new pricing structure that has been recently announced. I have been playing <GameSystems> since <Date> but now I am begging to feel that I will no longer be able to justify the costs of continuing. For instance, consider <ProductYouLikeButIsTooExpensive>, I would love to include <ProductYouLikeButIsTooExpensive> in my <FavoriteArmy> but its cost of <NewProductCost> places it beyond what I can spend on <GameSystem> at this time.

<OptionalSection>
The current trend of annual price increases reminds me of <GameSystemThatDidSomethingSimillar>. <Publisher> <DidSomethingSimilar> which led to me <DoingSomething>.
</OptionalSection>

While I love <FavoriteGWGameSystem> and have spent <MeasureOfTime> building, converting, painting, and gaming with it, I feel the day approaching where I will have to leave <FavoriteGWGameSystem> behind and take up something like <CompetingProduct>.

Thank you for your time and Consideration.

Sincerely,
<YourName>

So for instance, I were to write Jervis today I might write:

12 Shoggoth Way
R'Lyeh

May 17, 2011


Dear Mr. Jervis Johnson,

I am writing to inform you of how displeased I am with the new pricing structure that has been recently announced. I have been playing Warhammer 40,000 since July of 2008, but now I am begging to feel that I will no longer be able to justify the costs of continuing. For instance, consider the Necron Battle Force, I am looking to expand my Necron army ahead of the rumoured codex release this year, but its cost of $105(USD) represents an increase of slightly over 16% compared to last year. While it would be significantly more simple to buy new models, I will instead be purchasing the models I want second hand to help cut costs.

The current trend of annual price increases reminds me of Magic: The Gathering. Wizards of the Coast began releasing an new core set every year in addition to their typical three expansions. Any card that is no longer printed in a core set or in one of the current year's expansions may not be used in the most popular game formats. This priced me out of their market. I sold off all of the cards I owned and used the money to purchase one of the Realm of Battle and terrain bundles that was available when Planetstrike was released.

While I love Warrhammer 40K, and have spent many hours over the past three years building, converting, painting, and gaming with it, I feel the day approaching where I will have to do the same thing I did with Magic, and find another game system.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,
iPwned


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/17 17:03:06


Can you read my avatar? 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Lincolnshire, UK

puma713 wrote:Here's Kirby's open letter that he's asking to be posted on Blogs or sent to GW:

http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/2011/05/open-letter-to-games-workshop-embargo.html
I'd say it's a bit too disrespectful in places IMHO.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/17 17:03:09


Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.

"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
- Roboute Guilliman

"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Princeton, WV

Thanks iPwned. Thats a good start as any.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Scotland

Dear Games Workshop, We the actual players of your games and collectors of your miniatures are becoming increasingly disturbed by the route that you are pursuing. We would like you to comment on the following points and justify them if you can.
1) Despite the worldwide recession your persistent price rises may be for the benefit of shareholders but are of little benefit to the actual fans as you are forcing many of us to give up a hobby we care about. Also as more people drop out this will have a very adverse effect on your profits.
2) Sacking staff and closing stores is a very quick way of saving money and maintaining profit, but for how long? What happens when you can't sack/close anymore?
3) Resin may seem like the way forward but as resin contains oil prices as we have seen are perhaps more volatile than metal and they never go lower so as the consumer would notice. Is it safe to assume that resin will see the price rises as frequently as at the moment?
4) Do you honestly believe that your high costs on all your ranges encourage players and new players to continue/join the hobby?
5) Why do you not listen to the people on the ground? After all we are the ones who pay the bonus to shareholders; WE MATTER.
6) Other companies are now investing in plastic and to be honest they are making a mockery of your prices. Hell even two of your talented people the Perrys are producing high quality figures at a much much lower price than you. Why?
7) If you persist in ignoring the players, you are going to lose a lot of money and the shareholders will not be happy. You seem to think you are invincible> YOU ARE NOT. Carry on like this and your business will implode.

This is as far as I've got at the moment. Feel free to laugh/criticize anything. I'm beyond being angry. I've been into GW since White Dwarf 53 and now I'm being forced out> I don't like it.

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





Southampton

All good stuff, I don't agree on all the points that people are rasing, but a lot of them I am including in my own letter (which is focused on the year on year price increases) so keep the views coming

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/05/17 17:24:37


   
Made in gb
Trustworthy Shas'vre






Dorset, UK

FM Ninja 048 wrote:
Ravenous D wrote:Clearly GW will respond to your letters by increasing the prices due to the need for a bigger mail box...




lol
   
Made in gb
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper





Uk Kent

I think i'm just going to sit back and wait a little, right now everyone seems to be in knee jerk reactionary mode. I can completely understand the annoyance over price hikes for Southerners. That's Justifiable. But the idea of Resin models appeals to me since i prefer that than metal. I just wish they're pricing would be proportional to the material expenses rather than be the same as the metal pricing. But for now it's a wait a see. Lucky i got plenty of warhammer to paint and in the meantime I don't plan to get any more.

And if it does turn out bad, then i'll be given the final go ahead to start playing Infinity which i've been interested in now for the past few months.
   
Made in us
Human Auxiliary to the Empire




Alright the page was made, sorry it took so long I had to grab some noms. I was gonna put a picture of angry marines cause it seemed appropriate for the topic, however serious it may really be. So without further adue, please feel free to give input on anything that should be posted or updated in a format.

"Games Workshop abuse twords loyal Players"

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Games-Workshop-abuse-twords-loyal-Players/211987985498258

   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Yvan eht nioj






In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg

You spelt 'towards' wrong...

=====Begin Dakka Geek Code=====
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My Project Logs:
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Completed Armies so far (click to view Army Profile):
 
   
Made in us
Human Auxiliary to the Empire




Forgive me it was the initial set up, I'm going to be sending everything to a spellchecker to make sure its clean. However if you think that something should be changed or added please feel free to let me know.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

"Abuse"? Really?

Do we all need to go into a shelter for battered spouses now?
   
Made in ie
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





Imagination land

What happened to all the posts I made in this thread?!
GW you bastards!!!!!
   
Made in us
Human Auxiliary to the Empire




Look it was just a set up name it can all be edited, I can fix it or another could be started, it was just a point so we could have one. If you have suggestions let me know.
   
Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu






Wauwatosa, WI

Yeah, they're slowly purging any 'negative' comments on their FB page, and no one can directly post on thier wall, only 'comment' on what they put up there. Business as usual, but keep it up this week and hopefully they'll just shut it down like thier vaunted 'Eye of Terror' forums.

DS:60SG++M++B+I+Pw40k87/f-D++++A++/sWD87R+++T(S)DM+++ 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

Le Grognard wrote:Yeah, they're slowly purging any 'negative' comments on their FB page, and no one can directly post on thier wall, only 'comment' on what they put up there. Business as usual, but keep it up this week and hopefully they'll just shut it down like thier vaunted 'Eye of Terror' forums.

And really, the comments on their FB page were the same crap that led to their forums being shut down.

Emotionally charged dribble. If you want to be taken seriously by GW, you need to couch things in business terminology.
   
Made in ie
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





Imagination land

Seriously, im pretty pissed off that all my posts in this thread are gone WTF
   
Made in gb
Bryan Ansell





Birmingham, UK

Let GW know you care....

And If they don't provide an adequate response make sure the silence is deafening.

Take your money and spend it elsewhere. Don't moan about geedub, big up alternative systems and minis.











   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




I let them know every time I pass by their stuff to buy Flames of War or other games!
   
Made in ca
Boosting Space Marine Biker







How about, instead of boycotting, writing angry letters, or winge on this site we all just pledge to buy used. Its a hassle, stripping paint sucks, and sometimes bits are missing but its damn cheaper and GW won't be getting nearly as much of your money (if you aren't buying kits from stores on Ebay).

Riddle me this: what has four sides, moves twelve inches, and moved fourteen?

RAW-RAW-RAWsputin, Lover of the Russian Queen/ there was a cat who really was gone... 
   
Made in us
Dusty Skeleton




Waltham, MA

Kanluwen wrote:
And really, the comments on their FB page were the same crap that led to their forums being shut down.

Emotionally charged dribble. If you want to be taken seriously by GW, you need to couch things in business terminology.


I agree. Vote with your dollars.

I am done buying new GW models at MSRP. I'll get everything else I'm interested in either via second-hand markets or use proxy miniatures from another manufacturer, as will the other three members of my gaming group. Not to be mellowdramatic, but that seems to be a common sentiment and I'm curious to see if/how GW attempts to crack-down on 2nd-hand sales via legal means in the next 12 months (or sues Mantic for copyright infringement).

As time goes on, I'll probably stop playing WFB altogether assuming the current trend on cost-to-value stays the same (in plain English: their miniatures cost too much relative to how much enjoyment I get out of them). Its a shame as I enjoy their IP and their game; however, I can't justify paying their suggested prices.

   
Made in us
Camouflaged Zero




Maryland

Nüb wrote:Alright the page was made, sorry it took so long I had to grab some noms. I was gonna put a picture of angry marines cause it seemed appropriate for the topic, however serious it may really be. So without further adue, please feel free to give input on anything that should be posted or updated in a format.

"Games Workshop abuse twords loyal Players"

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Games-Workshop-abuse-twords-loyal-Players/211987985498258


Stop. Please. The last thing we as GW's customers need is an angry marine representing us. They'll never take us seriously. We'll just come off as the ignorant, vitriolic, unwashed masses that they already think we are. You didn't even spell "towards" right!

In all honesty, the only way anyone of us will effect a change in the way GW does business is to leave them alone. It's not going to be Facebook pages or letter-writing campaigns. It's going to be cold, hard currency. We're going to have to buy less often, or buy secondhand. Or even buy from other companies, who will certainly put our money to better use.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/17 19:29:21


"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." -Napoleon



Malifaux: Lady Justice
Infinity: &  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

Toastedandy wrote:Seriously, im pretty pissed off that all my posts in this thread are gone WTF


Are you sure you aren't confusing threads, man? There's several going on right now.

This thread?

DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Richmond, VA

So, taking a look at some of the financial reports, it looks like it backs up what many folks here have been spouting off about.

We ARE - in fact - buying less GW than we used to.

Taking a look at their 2010 financials, they report revenues of 126.5 million GBP.

Going back to 2006, they reported 115.2 million GBP.

Than an increase of about 9% (rounding up for conservatism).

Inflation is listed in the US at about 3% per year. Once again, let's be conservative and say about 2.5%. Over 4 years (2006-2010), that would predict an inflationary increase of 10%, assuming sales volume remained stable.

However, GW is seeing only a 9% increase - which add up when we're discussing 100+ million GBP.

Additionally, I do not have the price list from 2006 to compare to, but even last years price increase was considerably more than 3%.

Assuming that there had been NO OTHER price increases since 2006 (obviously not true, but once again, being conservative), then the sales VOLUME has obviously dropped.

Since there have been price increases - and not insignificant ones - it is safe to say we as consumers are not purchasing the same quantity of miniatures that we used to.


-------------------------------------------------------------

And going back a year further (the 2006 financials finally loaded) makes it even grimmer.

In 2005, GW reported income of 136.6 million GBP. So fast forward to the present, they are now bringing in less revenue before accounting for inflation. Or their price increases. I realize that we are in a recession that we are just now recovering from, but a 19% DECREASE (including 2.5% estimated inflation annually) in revenue? That is a sad story told on these reports...

Once again, that's a decrease in constant dollars. The decrease in units sold would be far higher. If anyone HAS an old price list from 2005 or 2006, I would really be interested to get some hard numbers on that. Thanks in advance to some kind soul who can hook a brother up.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/05/17 19:17:02


 
   
Made in ie
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





Imagination land

kronk wrote:
Toastedandy wrote:Seriously, im pretty pissed off that all my posts in this thread are gone WTF


Are you sure you aren't confusing threads, man? There's several going on right now.

This thread?


Awwwh man embarrassing
   
 
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