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Ground Zero Mosque is a terrorist front

One of the key members of the Ground Zero mosque development team, an investor and Egyptian businessman named Hisham Elzanaty, donated money to a terrorist front organization that was shut down by the federal government.
Yes, it’s the Holy Land Foundation, which was sanctioned and shut down by the European Union and United States after it was discovered that the organization was funding Hamas. That would be the same Hamas which recently endorsed the Ground Zero mosque.
One of the key players in Sharif El-Gamal’s Mosque near Ground Zero is Egyptian born businessman, Hisham Elzanaty. Fox 5 News has learned exclusively and confirmed with Mr. Elzanaty’s attorney that Elzanaty made a “significant investment” in the development of the mosque near Ground Zero…
Fox 5 News has also learned that in 1999 Hisham Elzanaty sent money to an organization that would later be deemed by the U.S. government to be a terrorist group.
The organization was the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, also known as HLF. The now defunct group’s 1999 tax records show Elzanaty contributed more than $6,000 to HLF.
Two years later, in 2001, HLF was shut down by the federal government and designated as a global terrorist. After a mistrial in 2007, in 2008 five HLF leaders were convicted of providing material support to Hamas.
Using donations from people like Elzanaty, the Holy Land Foundation funneled $12 million to Hamas so the organization could plan and carry out terror attacks. The aforementioned HLF leaders received life sentences after what was dubbed the, “largest terrorism financing prosecution in American history”.

Muslim bit

Sen. Barack Obama fought back against an allegation that he was educated at a radical Islamic school as a child in Indonesia, determined to avoid being tripped up by unsubstantiated charges like those that undermined John Kerry in 2004.
Interviews by The Associated Press at the elementary school in Jakarta found that it's a public and secular institution that has been open to students of all faiths since before the White House hopeful attended in the late 1960s.
Obama, who was born in Hawaii, moved to Indonesia at age 6 to live with his mother and stepfather, attending schools in the country until age 10, when he returned to Hawaii to live with his maternal grandparents.
"The allegations are completely baseless," said Akmad Solichin, the vice principal at SDN Menteng 1, who added, "Yes, most of our students are Muslim, but there are Christians as well. Everyone's welcome here ... it's a public school."
A spokesman for Indonesia's Ministry of Religious Affairs said claims that Obama studied at an Islamic school are groundless.
"SDN Menteng 1 is a public primary school that is open to people of all faiths," said the spokesman, Sutopo, who goes by only one name. "Moreover, he studied earlier at Fransiskus Assisi, which is clearly a Catholic school."
'We will not be swift-boated'
surfaced on the Web site of the conservative Insight magazine the day after Obama announced he was jumping into the 2008 presidential race. Conservative Internet blogs and the Fox News Channel picked up the story and spread the charges just as his candidacy was getting off the ground
Obama on Wednesday called the reports "scurrilous," and his communications director e-mailed reporters a lengthy memo attempting to set the record straight.
"I think they recognize that the notion that me going to school in Indonesia for two years at a public school there at the age of 7 and 8 is probably not going to be endangering in some way the people of America," Obama said on NBC's "Today" show.
The push-back was a signal Obama would fight to protect his reputation in the presidential campaign.
Many Democrats argued that Kerry's failure to challenge aggressively his critics in the 2004 presidential race cost him in his effort to unseat President Bush. A group with conservative ties, the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, charged that Kerry did not deserve the medals he won in the Vietnam War - despite his combat record of bravery and valor. Kerry announced Wednesday that he will not run again in 2008.
"We will not be swift-boated," said Obama communications director Robert Gibbs. "And we won't take allegations that are patently untrue lying down."
Christian upbringing
Obama's mother, divorced from Obama's father, married a man from Indonesia named Lolo Soetoro, and the family relocated to the country from 1967-71. At first, Obama attended the Catholic school, Fransiskus Assisis, where documents showed he enrolled as a Muslim, the religion of his stepfather.
The document required that each student choose one of five state-sanctioned religions when registering - Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic or Protestant. Gibbs said he wasn't sure why the document had Obama listed as a Muslim.
"Senator Obama has never been a Muslim," Gibbs said. "As a six-year-old in Catholic school, he studied the catechism."
The Illinois senator is a member of the United Church of Christ.
Proud techer
Iis Darmawan, 63, Obama's kindergarten teacher, remembers him as an exceptionally tall and curly haired child who quickly picked up the local language and had sharp math skills. "He wrote an essay titled, 'I Want To Become President,'" the teacher said.
Obama later transferred to SDN Menteng 1 - the elite, secular elementary school at the center of the controversy. The school is public but is very competitive and has exceptionally high standards. It is located in one of the most affluent parts of Jakarta and attracts mostly middle- to upper-class students, among them several of former dictator Suharto's grandchildren.
Indonesia is home to several of the most radical Islamic schools in Southeast Asia, some with alleged terrorist links. But Solichin, who proudly pointed to a photo of a young Barry Obama, as he was known, said his school is not one of them..
Those tied to the school say they are proud to have had a student like Obama, and hope that, if he is elected president, his ties to Indonesia will broaden his world perspective and his views on religion.
Sri Murtiningsih, who retired from Menteng 1 recently after 39 years of teaching, said she has vivid memories of the left-handed boy who followed a standard curriculum of math,

kronk wrote:Georgia is 9.9% muslim.

Armenia is 97% christian.

That's what I get for working from memory. My bad.

Da Boss wrote: Egypt, Turkey, (Arguably) Palestine, Indonesia,
Tunisia, Malaysia, Iran(technically), Morocco...I could go on but I'll stop there.

Should have put arguably or technically with Egypt too, or Lebanon, or Syria. Really the only legitimate Muslim democracy in the Middle East is Turkey.

Again my bad on Georgia and Armenia.

Well, I mean, in my head, the only thing Kronk was asking for was a country where people get to vote, so I was being nice by putting in arguably and technically in there. I mean, they have the vote in Iran, but I thought putting that down would be trolling

Da Boss wrote: Egypt, Turkey, (Arguably) Palestine, Indonesia,
Tunisia, Malaysia, Iran(technically), Morocco...I could go on but I'll stop there.

Palestine (Democratic? really?)

Egypt and Tunisia have practically had to scrap their governments recently and start over.

Iran is a dictatorship that openly persecutes christians.

Morocco is a monarchy on it's way to democracy, but don't kid yourself about them being democratic.

So, Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia. Three.

Seaports Land ownership

Aside from federal laws directly regulating foreign ownership of real estate in the US, investors should be aware that other laws might indirectly restrict ownership rights. One such law of particular importance is the 1988 Exon-Florio Amendment to the Defense Production Act of 1950. Exon-Florio applies to acquisitions, mergers and takeovers of US businesses by foreign investors, and gives the President the power to disallow any such transaction if two conditions are met. First, there must be credible evidence that the foreign investment might threaten or impair national security. Second, existing laws must fail to provide sufficient authority to protect national security. Foreign investors using a merger or acquisition strategy in order to acquire certain real property should be aware that such a transaction could be blocked if those two conditions apply in the eyes of the US government. Other indirect federal controls on alien ownership of US land include money laundering and divesture laws, both of which are discussed in later sections of this chapter.

National Security

One of the key members of the Ground Zero mosque development team, an investor and Egyptian businessman named Hisham Elzanaty, donated money to a terrorist front organization that was shut down by the federal government.
Yes, it’s the Holy Land Foundation, which was sanctioned and shut down by the European Union and United States after it was discovered that the organization was funding Hamas. That would be the same Hamas which recently endorsed the Ground Zero mosque.
One of the key players in Sharif El-Gamal’s Mosque near Ground Zero is Egyptian born businessman, Hisham Elzanaty. Fox 5 News has learned exclusively and confirmed with Mr. Elzanaty’s attorney that Elzanaty made a “significant investment” in the development of the mosque near Ground Zero…
Fox 5 News has also learned that in 1999 Hisham Elzanaty sent money to an organization that would later be deemed by the U.S. government to be a terrorist group.
The organization was the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, also known as HLF. The now defunct group’s 1999 tax records show Elzanaty contributed more than $6,000 to HLF.
Two years later, in 2001, HLF was shut down by the federal government and designated as a global terrorist. After a mistrial in 2007, in 2008 five HLF leaders were convicted of providing material support to Hamas.
Using donations from people like Elzanaty, the Holy Land Foundation funneled $12 million to Hamas so the organization could plan and carry out terror attacks. The aforementioned HLF leaders received life sentences after what was dubbed the, “largest terrorism financing prosecution in American history”.

Now actually prove that the mosque, it's design, or it's use has something to do with any of this at all. One of foxes largest stockholders is a saudi prince, the saudi royal family is the largest terrorist funder by dollar amount in the world.

Is fox a terrorist network?

Even if you don't agree with the poster it's best to form an argument on solid ground. Since (I'm paraphrasing) the idea was where Muslim voters were worried about secret Christians we should focus on democracies where the voters can express their concern.
YMMV.

AustonT wrote:Even if you don't agree with the poster it's best to form an argument on solid ground. Since (I'm paraphrasing) the idea was where Muslim voters were worried about secret Christians we should focus on democracies where the voters can express their concern.
YMMV.

I don't understand the point of that line of conversation from beginning to end .

kronk wrote:

Da Boss wrote: Egypt, Turkey, (Arguably) Palestine, Indonesia,
Tunisia, Malaysia, Iran(technically), Morocco...I could go on but I'll stop there.

Palestine (Democratic? really?)

Egypt and Tunisia have practically had to scrap their governments recently and start over.

Iran is a dictatorship that openly persecutes christians.

Morocco is a monarchy on it's way to democracy, but don't kid yourself about them being democratic.

So, Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia. Three.

My criteria for "is it a democracy" was simply "do the citizens get to vote about stuff?". And you can have a democratic monarchy (I live in one!). I totally recognise that many of these countries aren't very democratic or that the votes don't count for much, but my original comment was a joke- I wasn't meaning to imply that the various islamic nations of the world are bastions of democracy, merely poking fun at the very idea of a "secret muslim" candidate.

But whatever dude! If you want to argue that point work away. I could spend more time looking up Islamic democracies, and you could continued to discount them as not good enough, but I think I was already nice in responding to your initial post!

Da Boss wrote:Well, I mean, in my head, the only thing Kronk was asking for was a country where people get to vote, so I was being nice by putting in arguably and technically in there. I mean, they have the vote in Iran, but I thought putting that down would be trolling

Da Boss wrote:
But whatever dude! If you want to argue that point work away. I could spend more time looking up Islamic democracies, and you could continued to discount them as not good enough, but I think I was already nice in responding to your initial post!

I'm honestly just trying to think of 5 genuinely democratic, primarily muslim countries. I'm not trying to troll you, Da Boss.

You got me stratching my noodle with this post.

Da Boss wrote:I wonder if voters in predominantly muslim democracies get panicky about their leaders being secret christians?

I guess I got a bit off topic.

Damn...I'm not a good debater am I.

I'm gonna back Shuma here I'm afraid. All he's done is claim that Fox is the worst out of a series of bad news organisations, and he's argued it quite nicely. Rather then trying to prove why Al Jazeera is worse than Fox, maybe try and prove Fox is better than Al Jazeera? Subtle distinction, but crucial, and perfectly arguable.

So, Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia.
Pakistan, Algeria, Maldives

Or don't and not give a gak what Shuma thinks.

Nah man, I think it's a reasonable point but I gotta go home some time today

AustonT wrote:So, Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia.
Pakistan, Algeria, Maldives

In several of those countries its actually illegal to be a Christian or convert to Christianity. Pakistan had a minister capped recently for daring to defend Christians from being persecuted. This is not supporting your case.

kronk wrote:
I'm honestly just trying to think of 5 genuinely democratic, primarily muslim countries. I'm not trying to troll you, Da Boss.

Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Albania, the Maldives. I would put Iran in there too, but I know most people on this board wouldn't.

dogma wrote:

kronk wrote:
I'm honestly just trying to think of 5 genuinely democratic, primarily muslim countries. I'm not trying to troll you, Da Boss.

Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Albania, the Maldives. I would put Iran in there too, but I know most people on this board wouldn't.

Thank you, dogma.

ShumaGorath wrote:

AustonT wrote:Even if you don't agree with the poster it's best to form an argument on solid ground. Since (I'm paraphrasing) the idea was where Muslim voters were worried about secret Christians we should focus on democracies where the voters can express their concern.
YMMV.

I don't understand the point of that line of conversation from beginning to end .

Probably not directed at you then is it?


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Frazzled wrote:

AustonT wrote:So, Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia.
Pakistan, Algeria, Maldives

In several of those countries its actually illegal to be a Christian or convert to Christianity. Pakistan had a minister capped recently for daring to defend Christians from being persecuted. This is not supporting your case.

Bad Frazzled. It does. Especially in those countries voters would be concerned about secret Christian politicians, don't you think?

Jihadin wrote:
Military does not play a role in brokering a SOFA agreement.

Well, they're not supposed to, but in practice the regional military bureaucracy has as much, if not more, of a role as the State Department and larger Executive.

I would like to see what passes for proof Fox is the worst. Some actual study by a credible source with quantitative measures clearly explained. A quick look on my part finds:



from: http://www.people-press.org/2009/09/13/press-accuracy-rating-hits-two-decade-low/


And an interesting study.


http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_National_126.pdf

I see need to gain experience in googling subject matter and sticking with topic......

The question I keep coming back to is why the fact that Fox News has a conservative bias needs to be discussed ad nauseam.

Monster Rain wrote:The question I keep coming back to is why the fact that Fox News has a conservative bias needs to be discussed ad nauseam.

Beause folks find that bias offensive, and those types of folks tend to want to shout down points of view they don't agree with.

CptJake wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:The question I keep coming back to is why the fact that Fox News has a conservative bias needs to be discussed ad nauseam.

Beause folks find that bias offensive, and those types of folks tend to want to shout down points of view they don't agree with.

Because it has a bias and reports things incorrectly and with misatribution while being half of all cable news ratings in the U.S. during a time of heightening lack of public awareness of policy and global issues.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CptJake wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:The question I keep coming back to is why the fact that Fox News has a conservative bias needs to be discussed ad nauseam.

Beause folks find that bias offensive, and those types of folks tend to want to shout down points of view they don't agree with.

Yep. The types of folks that don't want major cable news networks to lie constantly because they are paid to do it.

Monster Rain wrote:The question I keep coming back to is why the fact that Fox News has a conservative bias needs to be discussed ad nauseam.

Heretics always get the pyre.

Monster Rain wrote:The question I keep coming back to is why the fact that Fox News has a conservative bias needs to be discussed ad nauseam.

Because only conservatives lie and the must be stopped, derp.

AustonT wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:The question I keep coming back to is why the fact that Fox News has a conservative bias needs to be discussed ad nauseam.

Because only conservatives lie and the must be stopped, derp.

crap that didn't work. Here:

Monster Rain wrote:The question I keep coming back to is why the fact that Fox News has a conservative bias needs to be discussed ad nauseam.

The study I link to in the OP demonstrates that Fox News's bias actually renders people ignorant, that's why.

Frazzled wrote:

AustonT wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:The question I keep coming back to is why the fact that Fox News has a conservative bias needs to be discussed ad nauseam.

Because only conservatives lie and the must be stopped, derp.

Cant watch your link Fraz can you tell me what to search on YouTube?


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Nvm