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DeffDred wrote:

Even with 100% of these things being true, there are still obvious workarounds the tau COULD take IN MY OPINION. If you are saying "always" or "never" in a fluff argument, you are TAKING A STRONG STANCE. There is no such thing in fiction as "always" or "never", EXCEPT THINGS LIKE "SPACE MARINES NEVER MATE WITH WOMEN, OR DOZENS OF OTHER SUBJECTS".

When you take extreme always or never positions in a fluff argument, you are really hurting MY FEELINGS and scaring ME away from being interested in the fluff. When people make fun of 40k and the people who play it, THEY ARE ENTITED TO THEIR OWN OPINION. The OP wanted to make a tau titan and half the thread is fluffholes popping in to say it's a stupid idea.

Be productive. You have a lot of fluff knowledge, if you can't come up with some cornercase that would allow for the OP to accomplish what they want without breaking your rigid view of canon, no matter how unlikely said case would be, then you probably SHOULD EXPLAIN TO THE OP THAT THEY MAY RECEIVE ALOT OF FLAKK.

And no, saying it's in a book still doesn't count (Unless I'm talking about the bible right?). **Removed because it makes no sense**. In the INTERWEBZ, we DON'T have to actually establish our arguments AS TONS OF REFERENCE MATERIAL CAN BE FOUND AT A WHIM. We do not get to just point to a book and ask someone to make our arguments for us WE SIMPLY EXPECT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHAT THE SUBJECT MATTER IS. I can't respond properly to your argument if you don't actually make one (Which I did.). If you want to cite a passage, I can actually say something about it, but "the entire book" is not actually a rational argument BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO READ A BOOK WHOSE CONTENT COMPLETELY BACKS UP WHAT YOU CLAIM . IMHO That's just you not feeling like backing up your views and using a book as a means to shut down discussion you CLEARLY KNOW MORE ABOUT THAN ME.

There. Fixed that for you.

Wait, did you really put in there that we don't have to actually present evidence because there is information on the internet?

No that's not how argument works. You can't just make an argument without backing it up. I don't care if all of the information in the world is on a wiki somewhere, you still have to link to it and quote it. I am not obligated to make your argument for you. You have to demonstrate your own thesis and you simply have not done so.

No that's not how argument works. You can't just make an argument without backing it up. I don't care if all of the information in the world is on a wiki somewhere, you still have to link to it and quote it. I am not obligated to make your argument for you. You have to demonstrate your own thesis and you simply have not done so

So you are the master on how to argue? I think were doing a pretty good job without following your mystery rules.

I can make any argument I want without backing it up. Infact, according to you, that's all I've been doing.

I don't have to link or quote anything. What I said is COMMON knowlege. If you don't want to do research than don't speak up.

You have gone completely off-topic in the defence of your ignorance.

I don't have the time, nor do I care enough, to read through the pile of books, magazines and comics in the closet behind me just to have to retype an entire book to show you what I'm talking about.

This isn't a debate on how YOU want to discuss things. It's a debate over how the OP could include a Warhound Titan model in his Tau force.

My opinion, based on years of reading GW, BL and other publications, is that not only is it silly but completely unrealistic to the fluff in any way, shape or form.

The Tau do not "loot" vehicles and would consider the Titan to be so far from what they precieve as the proper way of war that a Shas'O would be embarassed to be caught piloting one.

Why would the Tau want to controll a giant target with a few large guns when already have an army of robotic suits covered in weapons that zip about the battlefeild?

Again, if you haven't read the book Titanicus (which goes into great detail on the lives of a titan crew and the lives of the people who live on a titan forgeworld), the Titan comics (which gives good info and visual reference), the Tau codex (which discusses the Tau way of war and ideology), Warhammer 40k Rogue Trader (which lays down the earlier belief structure of the Mechanicus), and dozens of other sorce materials such as rule books other novels and comics, than you shouldn't chime in and say "you are wrong".

You sir, have also not given any reasons to disprove my statements other than "you didn't make a bibliography in your post".

If you don't want to take the time to learn more about the warhammer universes that your problem, not mine.

I've already done my homework. Maybe you should too.

Use an Armored Core toy model of some other japanese mecha that you can add some tau looking weapons to and your gold for a warhound, problem solved.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004M6WS30/ref=oh_o00_s00_i00_details

In most discussions I've been in that drew upon a printed work as evidence, it was accepted that the proper form would be to provide relevant page numbers for the convenience of the other participants in the discussion.

In my more formal debates and discussions even more elaborate citations would be necessary.

Jefffar wrote:In most discussions I've been in that drew upon a printed work as evidence, it was accepted that the proper form would be to provide relevant page numbers for the convenience of the other participants in the discussion.

In my more formal debates and discussions even more elaborate citations would be necessary.

This.

If you're going to claim that a printed source backs up an argument you are making, then yes, the onus is on you to provide a relevant quote. If you're not interested in doing that, then you shouldn't be making that particular argument.

Rented Tritium wrote:You can't just make an argument without backing it up. I don't care if all of the information in the world is on a wiki somewhere, you still have to link to it and quote it. I am not obligated to make your argument for you. You have to demonstrate your own thesis and you simply have not done so.

Says who? It's no ones job here to educate you so you can argue. If you're interested in the subject matter, go have a read.

If you want to stay ignorant, thats your business.

Kaldor wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:You can't just make an argument without backing it up. I don't care if all of the information in the world is on a wiki somewhere, you still have to link to it and quote it. I am not obligated to make your argument for you. You have to demonstrate your own thesis and you simply have not done so.

Says who? It's no ones job here to educate you so you can argue. If you're interested in the subject matter, go have a read.

If you want to stay ignorant, thats your business.

Says everyone who argues with other adults.

Are you five years old? When you debate things with someone, you are expected to actually back up your arguments. Saying to read a book without specifying a passage or page number is just as helpful as saying "go back to school". It's simply not a reasonable argument.

I can't believe I have to explain this to adults.

Igenstilch wrote:Use an Armored Core toy model of some other japanese mecha that you can add some tau looking weapons to and your gold for a warhound, problem solved.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004M6WS30/ref=oh_o00_s00_i00_details

hmm... it sounds interesting
i might consider it at a later time, but, tbh i was just mostly looking for an excuse to use a warhound with my tau
iom smells funny <.<

Rented Tritium wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:You can't just make an argument without backing it up. I don't care if all of the information in the world is on a wiki somewhere, you still have to link to it and quote it. I am not obligated to make your argument for you. You have to demonstrate your own thesis and you simply have not done so.

Says who? It's no ones job here to educate you so you can argue. If you're interested in the subject matter, go have a read.

If you want to stay ignorant, thats your business.

Says everyone who argues with other adults.

Are you five years old? When you debate things with someone, you are expected to actually back up your arguments. Saying to read a book without specifying a passage or page number is just as helpful as saying "go back to school". It's simply not a reasonable argument.

I can't believe I have to explain this to adults.

does an arguement even really matter anymore if the op stopped caring/paying attention pages ago?

homsikpanda wrote:

Igenstilch wrote:Use an Armored Core toy model of some other japanese mecha that you can add some tau looking weapons to and your gold for a warhound, problem solved.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004M6WS30/ref=oh_o00_s00_i00_details

hmm... it sounds interesting
i might consider it at a later time, but, tbh i was just mostly looking for an excuse to use a warhound with my tau
iom smells funny <.<

Rented Tritium wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:You can't just make an argument without backing it up. I don't care if all of the information in the world is on a wiki somewhere, you still have to link to it and quote it. I am not obligated to make your argument for you. You have to demonstrate your own thesis and you simply have not done so.

Says who? It's no ones job here to educate you so you can argue. If you're interested in the subject matter, go have a read.

If you want to stay ignorant, thats your business.

Says everyone who argues with other adults.

Are you five years old? When you debate things with someone, you are expected to actually back up your arguments. Saying to read a book without specifying a passage or page number is just as helpful as saying "go back to school". It's simply not a reasonable argument.

I can't believe I have to explain this to adults.

does an arguement even really matter anymore if the op stopped caring/paying attention pages ago?

They won't care. People on the Internet love to argue.

These should help;

Titanicus page 477 first full paragraph.

"Gearhart knew fury. It had become his name and his reputation, but his fury was not mindless. It was clinical, it was controlled. At its peak, it was so ruthless and methodical that Gearhart was scared of himself. He was scared at his capacity for destruction. When he allowed himself to be engulfed by the Red Fury, he let go to the machine spirit. He let go to the MIU and the sentient rage that blazed inside Invictus Antagonistes's reactors."

Page 478 second paragraph

"Gearhart didn't know their names, but he knew them all the same. They were the princeps who had commanded Antagonistes down through the ages, an honour roll that dated back ten thousand years to Mars, and the birth of the Imperium, and the death of innocence. They represented a legacy no man, not even Gearhart, could ever fully measure up to. The MIU had summoned them all forth to witness Gearhart's final action."

here is a long one,

Page 506-507

"<Listen to me, all of you,> Kung canted. <This isn't up for debate, and there's no time for discussion. Link you MIUs directly to my engine. Slave to me your auspex and fire control systems. Grant me authority over your Titans.>
<Manifold linkage of MIUs is forbidden!> Theron of Stridex canted.
<If we open our impulses to the Manifold, we could risk scrapcode invasion and corruption!> declared Philostartes of Antrox Terribilis.
replied Kung.
<Do it now.>
The images of the princeps blinked away as fast as they had appeared. Kung shivered as he felt the links being enabled. He heard the growls and snarls of dozens of other engines, as if he was inside them. He tasted sweaty, unwholesome floodstream secretions, as if all the other princeps were inside his casket with him.
The sensory load was numbing. He moaned in distress at the weight pulling at his mind. To be linked to one engine was to chain a feral beast in your head. To be linked, simultaneously, to many, was to peer over the lip of the abyss into hell.
Kung shuddered, fighting off the rancid tongues of insanity that licked and crisped the edges of his mind. He attained clarity for a second. Existential shockwaves rippled through him. Kung was used to being a giant, but now he was many giants, linked together, a giant giant, bigger than even the howling Imperator that rose before him. He was third group, and the second front, and the remains of fourth group. He was the centre of a whirling, roaring mass of sentience as brilliantly savage as a supernova and as catastrophically heavy as a black hole."

Page 126

"<I'm sorry, sir. It's my belief that every engine has a unique character, complete with its own foibles and quirks. No two are alike, even if they are the same pattern. They are, by the grace of the Omnissiah, living things, after all.>;"

Page 163 third paragraph

"His left hand became a Vulcan mega-bolter. His right hand became a plasma blastgun. His sleeves, his leather jacket, became dense ceramite armour, twenty centi-measures thick, the rain tapping off it. His legs became back-hinged limbs with vast, metal toes splayed in the Orestean mire. His heart became a furnace that throbbed unpleasantly like a chained sun. In his himd, another intellect, invasive and alien, bristled and growled like a hunting dog, an angry, barely trained attack dog ready to snap its choke-chain and-"

Page 165 first paragraph

"It was never a joy when it came (talking about replugging into the titan's MIU). The ancient mind impulse units of veteran engines were surly and cantankerous, resentful at being woken, forwards in their response to instruction. It always took a while to regain trust and re-establish cooperation. It was like breaking in the same, rebellious steed every time you saddled it, or bringing to heel a ferocious dog.
Morbius Sire was an obdurate creature. Orfuls had guided its MIU through seventeen execution campaigns, during which they had made six hundred and eight confirmed kills on targets classified as heavy armour (various) or above. Even so, it still fought him. It tested him, despite the tally they had chalked up together, tonne for tonne the best kill ratio in Invicta.

Found most of them by just flipping through the book randomly, there are many more examples of these types of passages and those of the Titan support staff and Skitaarii sacrificing themselves to protect a Titan.

Fifth paragraph down on web page.

"Imperial Titans are unique in the sense that their computer mind-cores are sentient, albeit in a highly-erratic manner. This is in contrast with the usually non-sentient "machine spirits" or onboard computer systems found in many other Imperial war machines like tanks and armored vehicles. In the "Titan" comic, the newly connected Princeps was formally greeted by Imperius Dictatio inside its mental landscape; there was also Laudator Magnificat, which was forcibly reactivated after falling in combat. This proved disastrous: the mind-core had suffered severe psychological trauma from its "death", and began attacking everything in sight in its mindless rage."

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Titan

Found under Titan Crew

"The commander of a Titan is an individual who is a member of the Adeptus Mechanicus' Collegia Titanica called the Princeps, a rare individual in that he can retain his sanity after connecting with the "Machine Spirit" (computerized artificial intelligence) of the Titan through an MIU (Mind Interlink Unit) neural interface. The Princeps controls the Titan by means of the mental link provided by the MIU. Using this ancient technology, the Princeps merges his or her consciousness with the Titan's sentient 'machine spirit'--its artificial intelligence. After doing so, he/she can guide its movements and weapons as though it were an extension of his/her body, and provides a greatly heightened perception of the battlefield. It requires a strong will to maintain this connection, and Titans can go out of control on rampages of destruction should the Princeps fail to maintain dominance over its sentience. Particularly ancient and war-worn Titans are known to hold neural imprints of all their previous Princeps' personalities in their machine spirit. There has also been noted rare instances where a Princeps has died while connected to the Titan, thus creating a digital 'ghost' of themselves that remains inside the Titan's machine spirit. This is often referred to as a "ghost in the link". "

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Titan

Even if I don't support this idea I can say to OP - go ahead. I to am planing of buying a Manta and putting Blood Raven Chapter insignia all over it

Now for fluff reasons why is this a bad idea.

-Because Titans are not part o the imperial Guard but Adeptus Mechanicus, and can be only found on a big Forgeworlds - none of witch is in close proximity of the Tau Empire.

-Machine spirit is sophisticated thing that is hard to succumb ( it was noted few times on Dakka that even Chaos Mechanicus have hard time to kill it ), and can autodestruct a vehicle if he just sense a chance of being captured.

-Titan machine spirit is even more sophisticated then ordinary one.It is linked with Princeps is such way that if Princeps die and another one is not found soon the Titan Machine Spirit will die soon. It can even fry the intruder's brain if he detects that he is not Princeps at all ( source: Dan Abnett's [i]Titan[/] ). Giving that Tau are not Humans at all they could never merge with Titan machine Spirit and survive.

-Titans are only shipped to the great and important battlezones. None major conflict is happening in Tau space of influence. And they are always protected from intruders by Skitarii inside it.

But it is your miniature and your choice, like someone said here to me: "Imperial factions should stay Imperial and Xeno factions should stay Xeno."

Brother Coa wrote:Even if I don't support this idea I can say to OP - go ahead. I to am planing of buying a Manta and putting Blood Raven Chapter insignia all over it

Now for fluff reasons why is this a bad idea.

-Because Titans are not part o the imperial Guard but Adeptus Mechanicus, and can be only found on a big Forgeworlds - none of witch is in close proximity of the Tau Empire.

-Machine spirit is sophisticated thing that is hard to succumb ( it was noted few times on Dakka that even Chaos Mechanicus have hard time to kill it ), and can autodestruct a vehicle if he just sense a chance of being captured.

-Titan machine spirit is even more sophisticated then ordinary one.It is linked with Princeps is such way that if Princeps die and another one is not found soon the Titan Machine Spirit will die soon. It can even fry the intruder's brain if he detects that he is not Princeps at all ( source: Dan Abnett's [i]Titan[/] ). Giving that Tau are not Humans at all they could never merge with Titan machine Spirit and survive.
-Titans are only shipped to the great and important battlezones. None major conflict is happening in Tau space of influence. And they are always protected from intruders by Skitarii inside it.

But it is your miniature and your choice, like someone said here to me: "Imperial factions should stay Imperial and Xeno factions should stay Xeno."

Bold-Not true. They are made by the larger/more productive Forgeworlds but most of the time the Legio is walking on a plane.
Red-I do not remember this being in Titanicus...

That wasn't what i meant. They are build and kept at Forge Worlds then shipped in various war zones all across the Imperum.

And not Titanicus, Titan - an graphic novel by Dan Abnett.

This thread is reaching Star Trek vs Star Wars levels.

Besides, who cares,do what you want and let the fluff freaks brains explode.

That wasn't what i meant. They are build and kept at Forge Worlds then shipped in various war zones all across the Imperum.

And not Titanicus, Titan - an graphic novel by Dan Abnett.

ImperialFists2ndCompany wrote:These should help;
tons of quotes

Finally, man.

By rebuttal is that those certainly establish the machine spirit as being sentient and very powerful. Awesome! This means you are a much better poster than anyone else so far! Unfortunately, they don't establish the machine spirit as being an unremovable part of the walker OR as automatically hating and refusing to work with tau unless I missed something in there. You obviously have the books handy, do you know of anything like that?

See the issue? Just establishing that the machine spirit works in a certain way doesn't in any way preclude the possibility of the Tau getting a titan to work. Suppose the titan's computer has been completely destroyed and the tau fill it up with drone brains. There's nothing on those quotes that says this won't work.

Brother Coa wrote:That wasn't what i meant. They are build and kept at Forge Worlds then shipped in various war zones all across the Imperum.

And not Titanicus, Titan - an graphic novel by Dan Abnett.

Fair enough then...

spireland wrote:This thread is reaching Star Trek vs Star Wars levels.

Besides, who cares,do what you want and let the fluff freaks brains explode.

Because some of us like to work our ideas into fluff. I hate this idea that you have to either be a completely 100% ridid fluff freak or you have to ignore fluff altogether. There's a fantastic range of hypothetical happenings that can fit within fluff if you aren't insane about it.

I like to treat it more like comic book canon where hypothetical scenarios are absolutely the bread and butter.

Rented Tritium wrote:

spireland wrote:This thread is reaching Star Trek vs Star Wars levels.

Besides, who cares,do what you want and let the fluff freaks brains explode.

Because some of us like to work our ideas into fluff. I hate this idea that you have to either be a completely 100% ridid fluff freak or you have to ignore fluff altogether. There's a fantastic range of hypothetical happenings that can fit within fluff if you aren't insane about it.

True but there are something which you have to compromise on...
A Tau super-heavy is easily feasible. But just getting a Warhound and saying the Tau stole it is lazy...
Frankly Tau could probably make some pretty cool super-heavies...

purplefood wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

spireland wrote:This thread is reaching Star Trek vs Star Wars levels.

Besides, who cares,do what you want and let the fluff freaks brains explode.

Because some of us like to work our ideas into fluff. I hate this idea that you have to either be a completely 100% ridid fluff freak or you have to ignore fluff altogether. There's a fantastic range of hypothetical happenings that can fit within fluff if you aren't insane about it.

True but there are something which you have to compromise on...
A Tau super-heavy is easily feasible. But just getting a Warhound and saying the Tau stole it is lazy...
Frankly Tau could probably make some pretty cool super-heavies...

It's only lazy if you do it in a lazy way. That's the nature of writing.

And honestly, there is NOTHING more lazy than "it would never happen"

Rented Tritium wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

spireland wrote:This thread is reaching Star Trek vs Star Wars levels.

Besides, who cares,do what you want and let the fluff freaks brains explode.

Because some of us like to work our ideas into fluff. I hate this idea that you have to either be a completely 100% ridid fluff freak or you have to ignore fluff altogether. There's a fantastic range of hypothetical happenings that can fit within fluff if you aren't insane about it.

True but there are something which you have to compromise on...
A Tau super-heavy is easily feasible. But just getting a Warhound and saying the Tau stole it is lazy...
Frankly Tau could probably make some pretty cool super-heavies...

It's only lazy if you do it in a lazy way. That's the nature of writing.

True but there are easier and IMO better alternatives.
If you really want a Tau Warhound (as in they own it and it isn't just part of a joint strikeforce, though that is a great idea) it would take some working...
IMO it's simpler to go a different route...

I'd like to see a Tau Titan made to look like a very large crisis suit, although with heavier armour.

And, I was just flipping through the book randomly, will see what I can find on converting a Titan for non-human use.

Is the Tau thought process and brain functionality the same as a humans? What I wonder is how the Tau brain would handle the stress of being plugged into an Imperial Titan.

purplefood wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

spireland wrote:This thread is reaching Star Trek vs Star Wars levels.

Besides, who cares,do what you want and let the fluff freaks brains explode.

Because some of us like to work our ideas into fluff. I hate this idea that you have to either be a completely 100% ridid fluff freak or you have to ignore fluff altogether. There's a fantastic range of hypothetical happenings that can fit within fluff if you aren't insane about it.

True but there are something which you have to compromise on...
A Tau super-heavy is easily feasible. But just getting a Warhound and saying the Tau stole it is lazy...
Frankly Tau could probably make some pretty cool super-heavies...

It's only lazy if you do it in a lazy way. That's the nature of writing.

True but there are easier and IMO better alternatives.
If you really want a Tau Warhound (as in they own it and it isn't just part of a joint strikeforce, though that is a great idea) it would take some working...
IMO it's simpler to go a different route...

It might be. And that's the discussion that we could have had a great time having if everyone hadn't jumped in to say no.

Instead of saying that something couldn't happen, people in fluff forums need to come up with ways to make it work. I absolutely guarantee that the rigid fluff guys in this thread, if they weren't so opposed to the idea itself, could come up with some amazing ways for this to work within canon. If they've read that much about it, they absolutely know of some combination of magical whatever macguffins in some short story somewhere that would make it happen and make it happen awesome. This universe has so much stuff in it that there's no way there isn't some obscure ork warboss that can eat machine spirits or whatever. You are just not being creative enough if you say never ever ever.

When you talk with comic nerds about who would win in a fight, you get all kinds of awesome answers and hypotheticals. It's great times. In 40k fluff threads, you just get 100 people telling you something would "never" happen and that's just lazy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ImperialFists2ndCompany wrote:I'd like to see a Tau Titan made to look like a very large crisis suit, although with heavier armour.

And, I was just flipping through the book randomly, will see what I can find on converting a Titan for non-human use.

Is the Tau thought process and brain functionality the same as a humans? What I wonder is how the Tau brain would handle the stress of being plugged into an Imperial Titan.

Yeah I don't know how tau brains compare to humans. That's probably important. Another good question is, can the titan tell if the pilot is being mind controlled? If the ethereal mind control stuff is true (and I like to think it is, since it's more grimdark) then an ethereal could theoretically mind control a gue'vesa pilot into believing he's fighting for the emperor. Would the titan believe it? That seems narrow enough it might not have been addressed yet in the fiction.

As for the tau making their own, while it wouldn't fit their style by default, one could construct a long drawn out war on a profoundly rocky planet that might necessitate walking tanks over hovertanks, but knowing the tau, I'm imagining something more like a 4 legged orca, but it's not outside of the reasonable that they'd at the very least prototype a big 2 legged walker to see if it's worth developing. Then, said prototype gets caught on the front and voila!

Rented Tritium wrote:

It might be. And that's the discussion that we could have had a great time having if everyone hadn't jumped in to say no.

Instead of saying that something couldn't happen, people in fluff forums need to come up with ways to make it work. I absolutely guarantee that the rigid fluff guys in this thread, if they weren't so opposed to the idea itself, could come up with some amazing ways for this to work within canon. If they've read that much about it, they absolutely know of some combination of magical whatever macguffins in some short story somewhere that would make it happen and make it happen awesome. This universe has so much stuff in it that there's no way there isn't some obscure ork warboss that can eat machine spirits or whatever. You are just not being creative enough if you say never ever ever.

When you talk with comic nerds about who would win in a fight, you get all kinds of awesome answers and hypotheticals. It's great times. In 40k fluff threads, you just get 100 people telling you something would "never" happen and that's just lazy.

I suppose...
The Tau could have copied an Imperial Warhound...
I mean Warhounds are the least complex, so it would be possible to piece it together and fill in the gaps.
They have their own version of AI so they could use that. They have mental links so they can use those...
It wouldn't have quite the same capabilities. Enhanced accuracy and range but probably a decrease in maneuverability due to pilot skill levels unless they were a veteran pilot and even then they'd need substantial re-training...

purplefood wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

It might be. And that's the discussion that we could have had a great time having if everyone hadn't jumped in to say no.

Instead of saying that something couldn't happen, people in fluff forums need to come up with ways to make it work. I absolutely guarantee that the rigid fluff guys in this thread, if they weren't so opposed to the idea itself, could come up with some amazing ways for this to work within canon. If they've read that much about it, they absolutely know of some combination of magical whatever macguffins in some short story somewhere that would make it happen and make it happen awesome. This universe has so much stuff in it that there's no way there isn't some obscure ork warboss that can eat machine spirits or whatever. You are just not being creative enough if you say never ever ever.

When you talk with comic nerds about who would win in a fight, you get all kinds of awesome answers and hypotheticals. It's great times. In 40k fluff threads, you just get 100 people telling you something would "never" happen and that's just lazy.

I suppose...
The Tau could have copied an Imperial Warhound...
I mean Warhounds are the least complex, so it would be possible to piece it together and fill in the gaps.
They have their own version of AI so they could use that. They have mental links so they can use those...
It wouldn't have quite the same capabilities. Enhanced accuracy and range but probably a decrease in maneuverability due to pilot skill levels unless they were a veteran pilot and even then they'd need substantial re-training...

I think even if it DID have the same capabilities, it would not be quite as good in the hands of the tau without some serious adaptation.

Rented Tritium wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

It might be. And that's the discussion that we could have had a great time having if everyone hadn't jumped in to say no.

Instead of saying that something couldn't happen, people in fluff forums need to come up with ways to make it work. I absolutely guarantee that the rigid fluff guys in this thread, if they weren't so opposed to the idea itself, could come up with some amazing ways for this to work within canon. If they've read that much about it, they absolutely know of some combination of magical whatever macguffins in some short story somewhere that would make it happen and make it happen awesome. This universe has so much stuff in it that there's no way there isn't some obscure ork warboss that can eat machine spirits or whatever. You are just not being creative enough if you say never ever ever.

When you talk with comic nerds about who would win in a fight, you get all kinds of awesome answers and hypotheticals. It's great times. In 40k fluff threads, you just get 100 people telling you something would "never" happen and that's just lazy.

I suppose...
The Tau could have copied an Imperial Warhound...
I mean Warhounds are the least complex, so it would be possible to piece it together and fill in the gaps.
They have their own version of AI so they could use that. They have mental links so they can use those...
It wouldn't have quite the same capabilities. Enhanced accuracy and range but probably a decrease in maneuverability due to pilot skill levels unless they were a veteran pilot and even then they'd need substantial re-training...

I think even if it DID have the same capabilities, it would not be quite as good in the hands of the tau without some serious adaptation.

Indeed...
Tau think in different ways to Humans...
They would also need to develop strategies for these machines. I feel there would be some ingrained resistance against them from the Fire Cast. They don't perfectly suit their tactical or strategic mindset.

Also, if the Titan has a ghost imprint of it's former princeps. Than I feel that the Tau would not being to convert it to their cause due to the memories of the human living on inside of the Titan

ImperialFists2ndCompany wrote:Also, if the Titan has a ghost imprint of it's former princeps. Than I feel that the Tau would not being to convert it to their cause due to the memories of the human living on inside of the Titan

We've moved on...

Ah, sorry.

ImperialFists2ndCompany wrote:Also, if the Titan has a ghost imprint of it's former princeps. Than I feel that the Tau would not being to convert it to their cause due to the memories of the human living on inside of the Titan

Well, what are the mechanics of that element? Where is the ghost stored? Is it part of the computer, the engine? How irreducible is the titan as a unit? If you remove parts of a titan, does the ghost stay in the remaining part or do bits of the ghost go with the parts? In a lot of possible scenarios, they've removed a lot of the internals anyway, so if the ghost is in those then it's not as much of an issue. If the ghost haunts the frame, then there are questions of irreducibility.

Also, how much resistance can the ghost put up? Is it something the pilot would have to fight with willpower or is it more powerful? That might be an interesting bit of grimdark. The pilot has to do battle with the ghost constantly, but since he's tau, he doesn't really believe it's a ghost and is convinced it's just a security mechanism. Maybe the ethereal has to constantly babysit him to keep him from going out of control? Lots of interesting plot devices are potentially there.