Tau warhound

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**Rented Tritium**

DeffDred wrote:
Read Titanicus. It will help you to understand that you have been completely wrong this entire thread.

This is not how you actually argue with someone. "Go read this novel" is not actually an argument in a debate and the little tag on the end is pretty infuriating.

**aquilaenet**

IMHO, I think the best way to do it is have gue'vesa pilot the titan and have a fire caste command it. The humans already have the implants. The titan can be convinced it is doing the right thing by killing anything including humans just like the human pilots. The proof of that is chaos has titans that are obviously messed up in the "head". I think if the titan is sentient, it can be swayed just like any normal human working for chaos or tau.
As far as colors or mods go, the Tau would probably realize that keeping it the same as the way they found it will be trickier than repainting it or modding it. Imagine walking up to the IOM with it. That would confuse the hell out of the Imperial Guard, then BOOM! too late to do anything about it. Against any xenos... I don't think they would know any different.

**Kaldor**

AlmightyWalrus wrote: Tau using a Warhound is a horribly transparent attempt to justify having a cool model. Just play with it, but don't try to make up an excuse, because any excuse will feel horribly forced.

I concur.

**DeffDred**

I wasn't aguing. You were just defending your point and I was making mine.

Infuriating? I think you're adding tone to my text that isn't there.

And asking you to read isn't my atempt at an argument. It's my atempt to help you get up to speed on the subject the debate is about.

**Kaldor**

Firstly, a Tau titan is a stupid idea.

Secondly, the Machine Spirit is obviously some form of internal computer system, ranging from cruise control in a Rhino to advanced targeting and tactical control in a Landraider.

I mean, you can stick your fingers in your ears all you want, but the fact remains that the Machine Spirit of vehicles is represented in the background as an actual, tangible presence that actually does stuff.

I'd like to see you explain away the story where a LR continues to engage the enemy after its crew are killed? Or the ability in-game of vehicles with PotMS to fire extra weapons outside the normal rules?

**Mal the Wolf**

As for the pilots. I think you have the following options.
Fire caste: Fire warriors, Forgeworld
Air caste: Again Forgeworld
Earth caste: You could model these but i think they are out of place here
Water Caste: Easy to model, take a standard helmetless head and cut the hair and some of the top of the head. Next take the round top of the markerlight from a Skyray glue to head add antenna. Bang I made one for a Piranha. Looks spot on to the codex.
And dont for get the Aun. They have one in everything bigger than and including a Orca. Aun shi model could be easily modded to a seating position. This is my vote.

**homsikpanda**

Archonate wrote:If Tau ever make anything like a Warhound titan, it will have one pilot. Some lucky Shas'O. Then 50 years later, all Firewarriors will be piloting one.

lol xD ...it's set for the 4th sphere expansion that they're going to run tests on it, by the 5th sphere, every fire warrior has one, and it replaces the normal xv8- suits

xD

on a side note, can we stop with the fluffy fluff for a min D: still looking for suggestions on visually appealing (weither it makes sense or not! >=| )
tau fire warrior/air cast pilot in princep seat and keep normal human pilots? or replace both? or keep both? and anybody know where i could get a good full body sitting down tau warrior/pilot?

**Mal the Wolf**

Aun and two Fire Warriors and no there is no model for what you need. But all you have to do is make two cuts above the thighs and do some fileing to fit.

**Rented Tritium**

DeffDred wrote:I wasn't aguing. You were just defending your point and I was making mine.

Infuriating? I think you're adding tone to my text that isn't there.

And asking you to read isn't my atempt at an argument. It's my atempt to help you get up to speed on the subject the debate is about.

Nono. I'm not letting you off that easy. You came into a debate in progress and told me I didn't know what I was talking about, then rather than present any actual evidence, you told me to go buy and read a novel. You don't get to do that and then be like "woah, I wasn't trying to argue".

Was there a scene in that novel where the tau tried to do everything we've suggested in this thread and none of it worked and an omniscient narrator came out and told us why? Because unless that happened, we don't actually know those things.

**agnosto**

Let's try some logic:

-Warhammer 40k is a fictional universe created as a vehicle to sell models and hobby/game related items.

-You found a model you like but it is identified with an army you don't own/play/collect.

-You discuss it with your friends and they have no problem with you including the out-of army model in your next apoc battle.

-You spend YOUR money on the model, build it, paint it and play it in your area with the blessings of your opponents.

-Don't let people on the internet tell you what to do or not do with YOUR toy and YOUR money. Play with the damn thing, enjoy yourself, enjoy the model.

I always thought it ridiculous that some people are so caught up in the fluff; you know that stuff that GW changes whenever they feel like it, that they scream to the heavens how impossible it is. Hell, a few months ago we thought it would be impossible for Necrons to be sentient......yeah, that didn't change at all. Some rumors point to a large walker in the next Tau codex and the Tau are a multi-species Empire; who's to say none of their comrades don't have Titans or Titan-like units?

It's a game, people, not real life. Chill.

**Bongfu**

Not to discourage the OP, but I have to agree that a Tau Warhound is a bad idea from a fluff stand point.

First off, the humans who joined the Tau were mostly colonist and backwater PDFs.

There is an extreme difference from them and the people who operate and protect the Titans.

I have serious doubts the Skittarii would have let Tau come within sight of the Titan without giving them a good fight. Secondly, the Machine spirit must be maintained and pleased by the Techpriest of the Adeptus Mechanicus, who would rather see the Titan destroyed than hand the technology over to some xeno-empire.

In short, just use it in your army, but don't give it a back story.

**Ovion**

Having glanced across this thread, plus having previously read the Titan graphic novel and looked around things, the most logical answer is the Human Allies (Gue'vasa) Warhound.

This means you get to keep the model mostly as is, you could possibly put a tau comm array on it somewhere

I'd possibly paint it up using a VERY weathered original paintjob, with a shoulderpad or something with the colours of your Tau force.

OR - full repaint in your armies colours.

But ultimately, you can just go nuts with it

**Deadshot**

Besides, in Apocalypse any armies can ally so it is ok.

How about this, if you need it desperatly.

Whatever planet the tau invaded already had a conflict. Remanents of Titan legions including said warhound joined forces to give a better chance of defeating the enemy.

Hell, if you are fightinf Nids call it Hice Fleet Gorgon. At the end of that hive fleet's attack, an imperial army lost in the warp, actually sent to destroy the tau, teamed up with then to beat the nids. Read the nid dex for mire.

**purplefood**

No fluff excuse.
Do it anyway because it's cool...

**KingDeath**

There are quite a few heretical groups within the Mechanicus. Most seem to favour the freedom of chaos but I see no reason why a particularly xenophile group shouldn't have thrown their lot in with the Tau Empire.
The titan's AI / machinespirit could have either been wiped or simply otherwise convinced to go along.
The Tau themselfs are unlikely to ever create titans. Large bipedal walkers are a rather impractical concept for a warmachine if you think about it ( the Mechanicus might have other reasons than pure practicality to build titans while the Tau probably won't ) so it is more likely that the titan has been originaly built by the techlords of mars.

**homsikpanda**

DeffDred wrote:To the Op: Please don't ruin a beautiful FW model with a silly conversion. Tau titans are better made of Eldar grav tanks and Tau vehicle parts, I've seen them.

picture please? it sounds interesting

**Soo'Vah'Cha**

Not a titan but still a superheavy warmachine :

this one is mine , but I have seen bipedal ones....not a huge fan myself, grav tanks are much more Tau-ish, IMHO

**Grey Templar**

Rented Tritium wrote:
DeffDred wrote:
Read Titanicus. It will help you to understand that you have been completely wrong this entire thread.

This is not how you actually argue with someone. "Go read this novel" is not actually an argument in a debate and the little tag on the end is pretty infuriating.

He could have been a little nicer, but his point is still valid.

You arn't well versed in Titan and Ad Mech fluff. This isn't a crime and nothing is wrong with it, but you can't go ignoring what is there once its been brought to you attention.

You simply arn't qualified to discuss this subject because you havn't read the source material.

You also are attempting to put logic into this discussion by saying it is impossable for an organization this large to be so consistant. Mistake #1: putting logic into this. This is GW writing, they don't use logic in it.

40k is a static setting, they don't change the way they do things. its a fact of the setting thats not up for dispute. If you want something less static and more logical then you should go play a different wargame, or write the fluff how you like it and enjoy it by yourself. Purists don't want that stuff because we like the setting how it is.

**SomeRandomEvilGuy**

Rogue Mechanicus trying to use the Tau as a buffer shield while they complete their objectives might possibly work. It's hugely unlikely that they'll actually join the Tau Empire. Alternatively, having it as part of an Imperial force fighting against some greater threat could also work, but it'd be bizarre for the Titan to be on its own and not with other Imperials.

**Grey Templar**

That is possable, but like you said the Titan wouldn't be alone. unless there was some bargain struck between the Dark Mechanicus and the Tau(which will inevitably end with a Turbolaster to the face for the Tau) and they are lending the Titans services to them in exchange for something.

**Rented Tritium**

Grey Templar wrote:You simply arn't qualified to discuss this subject because you havn't read the source material.

This is GW writing, they don't use logic in it.

Purists don't want that stuff because we like the setting how it is.

It's like you took literally everything wrong with 40k and the people who play it and stuck it in one post. I take back what I said before, THIS is what I hate about fluff discussion.

And as for ignoring things once they've been "brought to my attention", simply saying that a book answers things doesn't cut it. If you're not going to actually cite things in it, you might as well be saying "it's in there, I swear, just read the whole thing". You can't say that I've been wrong about everything without citing specific things I'm wrong about. You guys keep coming into this thread saying that it couldn't happen in vague posts, without ever actually refuting the 10+ scenarios constructed by the rest of us that would allow it even under the current fluff.

**Grey Templar**

The book title was cited, thats all you need to find the information. Page numbers are nice, but not a requirement. Especially in this informal setting called the Internet.

If I was arguing some other topic and I cited a book noone in the audience owned my point would still be valid. They would have to go find a copy, but the point still stands.

You have been told where to find the information. Now its on you to go verify it.

**DeffDred**

Thank you Grey Templar.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

If you're not going to actually cite things in it, you might as well be saying "it's in there, I swear, just read the whole thing".

As for this...

It is in there. Read the whole thing. The entire book points out the faults in the debate.

The AdMech are infact robots, who follow a strict dogma. Machine spirits do exist and are fully aware of whats going on around them.

Many other points are brought up aswell. These points are also brought up by actions in the novel, not from characters point of view but from the story itself.

The book also explains how important a titan is and how difficult it is to use. Tau simply don't have the right mindset for a warhound titan.

The wouldn't be able to use the titan without removing the machine spirit. And that, is nearly impossible... as even the AdMech makes an atempt and is unsuccessful.

**Rented Tritium**

DeffDred wrote:Thank you Grey Templar.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

If you're not going to actually cite things in it, you might as well be saying "it's in there, I swear, just read the whole thing".

As for this...

It is in there. Read the whole thing. The entire book points out the faults in the debate.

The AdMech are infact robots, who follow a strict dogma. Machine spirits do exist and are fully aware of whats going on around them.

Many other points are brought up aswell. These points are also brought up by actions in the novel, not from characters point of view but from the story itself.

The book also explains how important a titan is and how difficult it is to use. Tau simply don't have the right mindset for a warhound titan.

The wouldn't be able to use the titan without removing the machine spirit. And that, is nearly impossible... as even the AdMech makes an atempt and is unsuccessful.

Even with 100% of these things being true, there are still obvious workarounds the tau can take. If you are saying "always" or "never" in a fluff argument, you are wrong from the start. There is no such thing in fiction as "always" or "never".

When you take extreme always or never positions in a fluff argument, you are really hurting the game and scaring people away from being interested in the fluff. When people make fun of 40k and the people who play it, they are making fun of people like you guys. The OP wanted to make a tau titan and half the thread is fluffholes popping in to say it's a stupid idea.

Be productive. You have a lot of fluff knowledge, if you can't come up with some cornercase that would allow for the OP to accomplish what they want without breaking your rigid view of canon, no matter how unlikely said case would be, then you probably shouldn't bother posting in a thread asking how to do it.

And no, saying it's in a book still doesn't count. Go down to off topic and tell people that your economic position is best and they should just read a book by this one economist and see how far that gets you. In the real world, we have to actually establish our arguments. We do not get to just point to a book and ask someone to make our arguments for us. I can't respond properly to your argument if you don't actually make one. If you want to cite a passage, I can actually say something about it, but "the entire book" is not actually a rational argument. That's just you not feeling like backing up your views and using a book as a means to shut down discussion you disagree with.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

KingDeath wrote:The Tau themselfs are unlikely to ever create titans. Large bipedal walkers are a rather impractical concept for a warmachine if you think about it ( the Mechanicus might have other reasons than pure practicality to build titans while the Tau probably won't ) so it is more likely that the titan has been originaly built by the techlords of mars.

While titans aren't their style, I could still justify them prototyping one to test the concept.

**SomeRandomEvilGuy**

Grey Templar wrote:That is possable, but like you said the Titan wouldn't be alone. unless there was some bargain struck between the Dark Mechanicus and the Tau(which will inevitably end with a Turbolaster to the face for the Tau) and they are lending the Titans services to them in exchange for something.

I wasn't actually thinking of the Dark Mechanicus, but that could work too.

Still, it shouldn't be on its own amongst a load of Tau, but also be protected by forces loyal to the Titan force. I'd assume that both Dark and Imperial Mechancius revere Titans. The Tau designing their own Warhound Titan would be a huge achievement.

**Rented Tritium**

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:The Tau designing their own Warhound Titan would be a huge achievement.

Especially since their design philosophy would result in something vastly different if they did make one.

Still, there is the possibility that enough frame and armor was left in the wreckage of one that the tau could assemble it around a tau computer and power source for the purposes of training against it or testing weapons or something. The model doesn't really tell us anything about what's happening inside. It could just be the outer shell of a titan wrapped around hammerhead parts, who knows?

If you allow that to happen, then you open up the possibility that it gets used in battle in an emergency.

**homsikpanda**

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:Not a titan but still a superheavy warmachine :

this one is mine , but I have seen bipedal ones....not a huge fan myself, grav tanks are much more Tau-ish, IMHO

pretty

not really a titan though :c
i could just use a manta in place of that and get pretty much the same effect =/

maybe i could use a gundam model from my local hobby shop? xD

**Deadshot**

Just say that the titan was a last survivor and imperial forces have teamed up with tau out of common enemy.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Deadshot wrote:Besides, in Apocalypse any armies can ally so it is ok.

How about this, if you need it desperatly.

Whatever planet the tau invaded already had a conflict. Remanents of Titan legions including said warhound joined forces to give a better chance of defeating the enemy.

Hell, if you are fightinf Nids call it Hice Fleet Gorgon. At the end of that hive fleet's attack, an imperial army lost in the warp, actually sent to destroy the tau, teamed up with then to beat the nids. Read the nid dex for mire.

Now THIS sounds believable! Problem solved, everyone's happy!

**DeffDred**

Even with 100% of these things being true, there are still obvious workarounds the tau COULD take IN MY OPINION. If you are saying "always" or "never" in a fluff argument, you are TAKING A STRONG STANCE. There is no such thing in fiction as "always" or "never", EXCEPT THINGS LIKE "SPACE MARINES NEVER MATE WITH WOMEN, OR DOZENS OF OTHER SUBJECTS".

When you take extreme always or never positions in a fluff argument, you are really hurting MY FEELINGS and scaring ME away from being interested in the fluff. When people make fun of 40k and the people who play it, THEY ARE ENTITED TO THEIR OWN OPINION. The OP wanted to make a tau titan and half the thread is fluffholes popping in to say it's a stupid idea.

Be productive. You have a lot of fluff knowledge, if you can't come up with some cornercase that would allow for the OP to accomplish what they want without breaking your rigid view of canon, no matter how unlikely said case would be, then you probably SHOULD EXPLAIN TO THE OP THAT THEY MAY RECEIVE ALOT OF FLAKK.

And no, saying it's in a book still doesn't count (Unless I'm talking about the bible right?). **Removed because it makes no sense**. In the INTERWEBZ, we DON'T have to actually establish our arguments AS TONS OF REFERENCE MATERIAL CAN BE FOUND AT A WHIM. We do not get to just point to a book and ask someone to make our arguments for us WE SIMPLY EXPECT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHAT THE SUBJECT MATTER IS. I can't respond properly to your argument if you don't actually make one (Which I did.). If you want to cite a passage, I can actually say something about it, but "the entire book" is not actually a rational argument BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO READ A BOOK WHOSE CONTENT COMPLETELY BACKS UP WHAT YOU CLAIM . IMHO That's just you not feeling like backing up your views and using a book as a means to shut down discussion you CLEARLY KNOW MORE ABOUT THAN ME.

There. Fixed that for you.