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TheAvengingKnee wrote:I would go with the theory that the allies rule is just a ploy to sell people a second army(or more) not deliberately a plan to bring balance to the game.

GW has a plan to sell more models? Say it ain't so!

It's pretty obvious that it is, and I'm okay with that. If I want some Eldar to run as allies with my IG and later on decide to expand them into a full army, then GW gets more sales and I get to play games with models before I have enough to field a proper army.

Whether people think of me as a TFG or not...I still am laughing over the Deathwing with my IG combo

AegisGrimm wrote:Game abuse is what makes you "TFG".

It is not cheating if the rules let you do it...

You can still be a TFG within the rules, just not a cheat

I guess I am not understanding of what he means by

AegisGrimm wrote:Game abuse.

If he was referencing cheating then sure TFG.

If he was referencing using the army list you think has a good shot at winning the most games, then I do not see how that is abuse, since the system lets you do it, it can not be abuse. (Abuse is basically improper usage to unfairly gain benefit).

Oh its very possible to be TFG and be within the rules. If you ever want to know who the most hated guy in a gaming club is...its usually the "Rules Lawyer" and all of you just now blinked and knew exactly who I was referring to in your own group.

At 2k there are going to be some sickening combos with the Allies chart. If allies can ride in vehicles from the other group maybe old Bjorn the Fell Handed could finally get a ride in a Stormraven instead of having to walk everywhere lol

We do not have a rules lawyer in my gaming group.

Although if thoroughly knowing the rules is being a "rules lawyer" then my group has 5 people out of 7 that thoroughly know the rules.

im just looking forward to adding stormtalons to my DE army, along with a few GK libbys and maybe a swarmlord for kicks.

yay allies!

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Deadshot wrote:If it were an objectives game they'd have.problems..But.now the solution is simply take Plague Marines and a Bastion

I'm sorry, but how are The Plaguebearers worse than the plague marines? They are one of the best objective holders in the entire game, plague marines are also far more expensive, and have a faux T5, rather than the true T5 plaguebearers have, along with a good inv save and FNP, and going to ground making them even harder to even remove.

The main issue daemons have is coming entirely piecemeal, with deepstriking an entire army not being so hot at all.

The difference being the Plaguebearers still need to Deep Strike whereas the Plaguemarines can just deploy on the objective, and in the bastion for good measure.

No there is a big difference between knowing the rules and being a "Rules Lawyer" lol. A person who knows the rules can generally settle any dispute that might come up during a game and once it has been settled they will let it go after it happens. The rules lawyer is incapable of this and will find something in the rulebook somewhere or in an errata somewhere later on to prove to whomever he was playing that he was in fact right and they played it wrong during the game.

Reivax26 wrote:The rules lawyer is incapable of this and will find something in the rulebook somewhere or in an errata somewhere later on to prove to whomever he was playing that he was in fact right and they played it wrong during the game.

So playing by the actual rules is bad?

I do not understand your point.

6th ed more than any previous edition is shaping up to be a "narrative wargame". If you want to be TFG, go play Warmahordes (a great competitive system) until youi realise winning isn't everything and telling a story in a fictional universe is just what 40K is now.

I personally love it. Back in 2nd edition, when Dark Millennium dropped, I was overjoyed to use a squad of Grey Knights along my IG. Getting back the Inquisitors that were nullified by the GK codex and the new and improved assassins will also be a boon.

Chaos also wins in a big fluffy way, since now they can take traitor guard and proper daemons.

This is a brilliant move on their part, both from a business and fun perspective. There's also the point to consider that if people want to mix and match chapters in one list, they better have them painted in a way to differentiate them. I can't be bothered to remember which grey plastic space marines are space wolves, and which ones are blood angels.

I for one cant wait to have a reason to use my inquisitor coteaz from since the daemonHunters days, add him and some dca and crusaders, and maybe a strike squad to my elysians ig army

DeathReaper wrote:

Reivax26 wrote:The rules lawyer is incapable of this and will find something in the rulebook somewhere or in an errata somewhere later on to prove to whomever he was playing that he was in fact right and they played it wrong during the game.

So playing by the actual rules is bad?

I do not understand your point.

Sounds to me that you may well be TFG

TFG is an attitude, not an army list.

For some of the more wtf team ups, [Tau and Daemons ] the restriction should be that you should have to provide detailed background on why they would ally together, and model/convert your army appropriately. E.g. if it's Orks and CSM and they are 'Chaos Orks' then you should add tentacles and spikes. If I see that I would be happy to play an allied army. If not I won't.

Brother SRM wrote:

TheAvengingKnee wrote:I would go with the theory that the allies rule is just a ploy to sell people a second army(or more) not deliberately a plan to bring balance to the game.

GW has a plan to sell more models? Say it ain't so!

It's pretty obvious that it is, and I'm okay with that. If I want some Eldar to run as allies with my IG and later on decide to expand them into a full army, then GW gets more sales and I get to play games with models before I have enough to field a proper army.

QFT. There is a pretty high barrier to starting a new army in 40k. You need to get something in the order of 1000pts worth of stuff before you can use any of them. The allies rules allows people to slowly work their way in. As a new player, I wasn't really considering getting anything other than Necrons for ages. Now I can choose from a broader selection. Will it increase my purchases overall? No. Will it for some? Probably. But it does let me use cool things that I otherwise wouldn't have even considered. And I think in the long run it keeps me in the hobby for longer, because I'm less likely to get bored.

And it creates lots of great modelling opportunities for people. Chaos Orks. Ork mercs with marines. Tau controlled Guard worlds. Some of it will be an absolute fluff nightmare. Some of it won't. Some of it will be TFG. Some of it will be great, well-intentioned (I'm thinking Word Bearers with daemons, and maybe some guard).

GW want to make money. And the best way for them to do that is by pleasing as many people as possible. They don't want to create too many TFGs, because TFG's are the minority.

Lobukia wrote:TFG is an attitude, not an army list.

TFG all depends on the situation

sometimes it will be both... sometimes it will be one or the other...

Like it has been said, TFG is an attitude. If you're min-maxing to create the fluff-nightmare uber list to smash all foes, then you're probably TFG. If you're just using allies for fun, or because you don't have a full army yet, then no harm, no foul.


GW is pretty smart in bringing it back, marketing wise. It's like a drug dealer offering the first hit at a reduced rate and getting you hooked, lol. If you have one army, with models that only work for that one army, you have less incentive to buy a second army. If you suddenly have units that you can use for more than one, maybe next time you're at the store you think "Hey, what if I got one of these too..." Eventually, you have two armies instead of one. If GW converts even 10% of its player base to a second army, that's a boatload of money.

Gateway drugs, lol. Plus, allowing allies might move more product in lines that don't always sell as well. Or sell more Finecrap figs.

I just hope that they wrote the rules with the lowest common denominator in mind.

TFg is 100% attitude, and nothing else. its the guy who wants to win, brags and cheers when he does, and whines and cries when he dosent. he will "forget" his own rules or fudge them, take offense when asked to clarify, but demand to see every little thing in the other guys codex if it looks like it might hurt his odds, or is something he was not expecting.

its pure attitude. nothing more. if someone creates a poweerful list and it just happens to be the holy grail of all army lists and is the one to rule them all, well great. a TFG will use that power for evil and parade it around and shove it in your face any chance he gets. a normal person...not so much, and after discovery of its "power" will probally reserve it for tournament play.

TFG's generally dont play the game for fun... they play to win. the WAAC attitude prevails, but i would hazard that majority of other people are not. and just want to have fun. the allies system will allow that. people to have fun with new army combos, and bring some new flavor and spice to the mix. it will also make "netlists" a little less prevelant since the number of combos goes up a ton. granted there will be some "broken" list combos arising, but there will also be a hard counter for it quickly. and taking or discovering it, does not make you TFG... just one who has vision, foresight and brains. using it to pound your gamiung group and friends over and over, bragging about how its unstoppable, refusing to change it when asked, and throwing the b***h fit when you loose.... THATS what makes you T...F...in....G!

All I want is a LRBT for my orks. A propah wagon!

However I see alot of Grey Hunters and Longfangs on the horizon.

Why whould anyone take devistators over longfangs?

"But Deffdred, You have to take an HQ and a troop before you get those longfangs!"

"Yeah, a JotWW cannon and some Grey Hunters."

I hope unique characters aren't allowed to ally. But my friend brought up a good point, "Dude, GW wants to sell finecast. They WILL let you take characters!"

Great... Commisar Yarrick alongside Gazzy.

Lysander, Kantor AND Vulkan?!

9 dreadnoughts in an Ultramarine army?!

Is it possible the allies will be part of the FOC? So you could have 6 Tac Squads but if you wanted some Grey Hunters you would need to drop some Tacs as there is no slot left?

I think part of the problem is going to be that some really fluffy allies might also be over powered.

Allot of combinations with IG for example would seem to be overpowered. Given the ubiquity of IG in the setting, Loyalist Guard, Traitor Guard, and Tau's Goey 'v's would mean that just about anyone could ally with Guard and have it make sense in the fluff.

The problems come from armies being good at one specific thing. Guard and Tau for example are the premiere shooty armies, but , with some exceptions, crumble like wet newspaper in close combat. If they suddenly have access to some of the toughest melee units in the game, even if it makes sense from a fluff stand point, they are going to get a huge boost.

Thatguyoverthere wrote:I think part of the problem is going to be that some really fluffy allies might also be over powered.

Allot of combinations with IG for example would seem to be overpowered. Given the ubiquity of IG in the setting, Loyalist Guard, Traitor Guard, and Tau's Goey 'v's would mean that just about anyone could ally with Guard and have it make sense in the fluff.

The problems come from armies being good at one specific thing. Guard and Tau for example are the premiere shooty armies, but , with some exceptions, crumble like wet newspaper in close combat. If they suddenly have access to some of the toughest melee units in the game, even if it makes sense from a fluff stand point, they are going to get a huge boost.

Good. Let everyone get boosts. It's the easiest way to a level playing field for everyone, where players can have a fair game based on who is the better general. Not like now where whoever packs the most vendettas in a guard army get's a durr-hurr win every time.

The thing is, the toughest CC units in the game are generally part of armies that are already good (as in "doesn't instantly fold unless it's a power-blob"). They're not going to stop Tau or IG units from folding instantly in CC, and any points spent on CC prowess would be points that aren't going into Broadsides, Crisis Suits, Hydras, Vendettas or similar units.

We'll in that case I won't feel bad for throwing Henchmen into my Mech/Vet list.

Just wanna throw my two cents in about allies seeing as how threads are popping up everywhere about them. Going off of GWs website it looks as though the ally combinations are pretty hokey, Dark Eldar shouldn't be able to team with Space Marines but whatever. As to the TFG concept, I think if you run a Mech BA or IG list for every game or a Purifier spam list, or a Long Fang Razorback list you are TFG. I am so sick of seeing those armies all over the place. I run Grey Knights an have never ran Purifier spam, I also run Space Wolves and just recently put together a Tau army. Now you better believe I am going to have Long Fangs or a Broadside unit in my backfield as my GK Terminators or Strike Squads advance. If it eliminates the "I win" net lists I will be happy. I think with the availability of allies you are going to see so many different combinations of very competitive lists it will eliminate the 4 or 5 uber lists we have now. An to think I would contemplating ebaying my Space Wolves, the only thing that kept me from doing so was my Thunderhawk and Achilles Land Raider decked out with Space wolf iconography and colors. Bring on the allies I am stoked.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deadshot wrote:Is it possible the allies will be part of the FOC? So you could have 6 Tac Squads but if you wanted some Grey Hunters you would need to drop some Tacs as there is no slot left?

Well if ya take a look at the recent WD they have 3 heavies plus a heavy in their ally detachment. So I believe now you would be able to take up to 7 tac squads. Nids supposedly are not getting allies so I would expect to see each slot in its FOC get bumped up allowing them to take 4 of each extra slot and up to 7 troops.

Testify wrote:

Thatguyoverthere wrote:I'm kind of disappointed that Tryanids cant ally with IG. It would be great to be able to run a Genestealer Cult with actual Genestealers.

It might well be a special rule in the new 'nid codex. Letting them ally with Guard as standard would just be weird.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SlaveToDorkness wrote:

Testify wrote:I'm sick of people insisting GW is being an evil corporate behemouth by introducing allies/terrain. If you think that a larger selection of goods leads to greater sales, you have no business acumen. People spend whatever money they want to spend, they aren't going to go mental and take out a second mortgage because they can use allies all of a sudden.

Yes, but it does lead to people buyng "just a little" of a particular army they've been just thinking about collecting. Then before they know it they play that army as well. It is much easier to justify playing an army after you've bought some of the models, this gets them to buy those models. A gateway buy if you will. It worked by splitting CSM and CD.

Why does GW care whether I spend £20 on one army or another?

If you cannot understand the advantage of people owning multiple armies then it is beyond my ability to explain it to you.

Only time will tell, I guess.