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BrotherVord wrote:
Gw is going to have to actually support a non 40k/WHFB game beyond initial release, and do so for several years, before they win back the good will of the fans.

If they are planning it to be a gateway game this is precisely what they don't need to do,

A gateway game would be something that is simple to play & fun to play, and hooks consumers into the 40K (or I guess warhammer) universe

but NOT something that you want them to keep playing (low model count skirmish games do not make the money a 1800-2000 point 40K army does), so you WANT players to get tired of the limitations of your gateway game and more on to the 'big leagues'

you want a 'fire and forget' game that you can just sell (no more development, no more rules, no more minis), then after 4-5 years release an 'all new' box

If the intention is to make a "gateway" game, then the rules and models used will also need to be compatible with Warhammer 40K. Otherwise, what's the point? How do you sell it to someone without telling them that the game is intended to get them interested in 40K, but they can't actually use any of it in 40K?

I hope this is true, but after seeing them turn their back on awesome skirmish games like Necromunda and Mordheim I really doubt it. I just don't understand this company!

i think this pretty much sums it up..

So how and why does that source claim to know that GW "wants" to make a Gateway game? That they are watching Kickstarter? Homebrew-rules by fans?

It's one thing to catch a product listing or something along the lines. Perhaps a whisper from someone involved on the long end of the production/play-testing.

It's quite another to "report" directly from the GW-boardroom on why and for what reasons they (allegedly) make a (rumoured) new game.

 Zweischneid wrote:
So how and why does that source claim to know that GW "wants" to make a Gateway game? That they are watching Kickstarter? Homebrew-rules by fans?

It's one thing to catch a product listing or something along the lines. Perhaps a whisper from someone involved on the long end of the production/play-testing.

It's quite another to "report" directly from the GW-boardroom on why and for what reasons they (allegedly) make a (rumoured) new game.

Rumors.

This is either:

a) the beginning of change where GW is re-evaluating their customer's experience of their games from the ground up

b) a limited edition one-off product that will never be allowed to grow beyond an original release as they still believe that anything but the core 3 (really 2) games will cannibalize 40k sales.

I'd be fine with a one-off, depending on what it came with.

I don't know if this is or is not a good idea since well, I don't know the Inquisitor rules.

I will say that this seems highly plausible to me. I suspect after the failure of Dreadfleet they're thinking they need to be able to leverage the models into another IP, such as with Space Hulk. If this game has heroic scale figurines then I imagine it will sell well just to 40k players who want to use them in games.

I can't help but feel that Bloodbowl has an established fan base, would only need a bit of updating and their are competitors already muscling in on the fantasy football market. It makes much more sense than a card driven miniatures game that may or may not appeal to buyers.

kronk wrote:I'd be fine with a one-off, depending on what it came with.

I'm fine with it as well, but I'd still prefer a complete re-evaluation of 40k from the ground up.

The food isnt any good, and the portions arent big enough....

Looking forward to another $150 ltd edition starter with rulebook and 12 figs. Maybe some scenerey and it will sell out.

They wont change the business model until forced to do so.

Im good with skirmish, but would still prefer bloodbowl.

aclive wrote:
The only thing I don't understand is, why would GW stop all specialist games.....just to make more specialist games....?

For one, the original specialist games were a slightly more long-term affair... They were stocked as a part of the core range for a time before being replaced by the next one, so stores always had 3 core systems instead of just the current two.

The Space Hulk / Dreadfleet model is a switch to stand-alone games that get a single splash release and are then forgotten about. Quick infusion of cash, and then done. So not really the same premise.


But even aside from that, we seem to be in middle of GW's era of taking old ideas, dusting them off a little, and putting them back out there. See 40K, with the codex supplements that were such a terrible idea last time around that they just had to do it again...

Also, GW are not ones for making "Gateway Games". They don't let you use models from specialist games in 40k and WHFB play. Or at least, they frown heavily upon it when you do.

I have never seen any issues with people using specialist models in 40K or fantasy... it's just that the majority of them had no specific use. They did however have rules at one point for using your Warhammer Quest characters as heroes in WHFB, and I vaguely recall there briefly being something similar for Necromunda gangs and Mordheim warbands.

Not convinced on the reliability of this yet, but it would actually be pretty cool. I'd be more than happy to see it and I'd probably pick a box up, whereas I wouldn't for Blood Bowl. It'd be especially cool if it was something that kept getting added too, like with extra "Inquisition Teams" added or something like that.

That said though, I'm not a fan of Mr. Blanche, so I hope it's not too Blanchified.

 Ouze wrote:
I don't know if this is or is not a good idea since well, I don't know the Inquisitor rules.

Inquisitor was about half-way between a skirmish game and a full RPG in terms of complexity. There are a lot of elements lifted straight out of it for the FFG RPG line (from what I've seen), including some of the classier illustration, to give a possible reference point. It was a gorgeous but fairly impractical game, and would need a really serious overhaul to make it approachable from a board game or even skirmish game angle.

Personally, I'd be really happy with a necromunda/mordheim-style and complexity game with some nice minis and more model types.

Sure would make sense for them to do something like this.

That's why I don't give them much hope of it and fully expect them pulling another gak "Space Hulk" move and making just another in a string of gak decisions. Heaven forbid that they just up and come out with something with no strings attached.

The stuff will probably be limited edition finecast, and priced well over a hundred bucks.

Here's to hope, though.

 Snrub wrote:
If this even hints at Necromunda i want to see a 28mm model of the Redeemer.
SCOURGE AND PURGE!

I have a 28mm version of him and his side kick in pewter.
I assembled and primed and cannot bring myself to paint yet.

I like how you think though!

Did not care for Inquisitor when it came out.

Not excited about this either,

It may have been construed that I "ripped into GW for no good reason" but it is not quite that.
The "good reason" for being grumpy is to own product that they dump and then they dust off a different version of prior product but more trendy.

Inquisitor played at 28mm played pretty good I would admit.
I have the original box set of Necromunda and enjoyed it.
I like following in white dwarf the various warbands being made.

They are so secretive and seem to have no official forum for feedback that it is frustrating to see if they are going to give a product a good effort or spin out as a one off.

I agree that if we at least get nice models out of it, there is something to be gained.

I have all the Inquisition 28mm models and liked them a lot, a skirmish warband based on them would work out nicely.

I am a fan of this idea. I love Inquisimunda/=I=28 and some new models would be awesome.

If they are anywhere near as good as the Cultists, I will get multiple sets.

As an aside, I would only get a BloodBowl set for it's inevitable resale value.

~Eric

This could be epic but it`s GW so.......

Cool. This could be interesting.

I'd be gutted for the fact of no Blood Bowl, but at the same time very interested in the skirmish replacement, if it had any kind of xp system in place I'd be all over it.

A dedicated skirmish game for 40k would be fun- although this sounds a little fishy to me.

Motograter wrote:
This could be epic but it`s GW so.......

It could be Epic??

 Grundz wrote:
Can GW resist the urge to squeeze everything for profits and make an actual good, sustainable game?

Maybe some day they will realise that making a good, sustainable game and squeezing everything is not mutually exclusive.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:
I can't help but feel that Bloodbowl has an established fan base, would only need a bit of updating and their are competitors already muscling in on the fantasy football market. It makes much more sense than a card driven miniatures game that may or may not appeal to buyers.

This is a good point, but it also contains its own counterpoint: why update Bloodbowl when all it does is generate revenue for third parties?

Considering the price tag of these limited run games, who'd pay it just to get a new rulebook for their third party minis? They're more likely to crib an illegally distributed PDF of the rules, then expand/extend/replace their third party minis with more third party minis. If the Inquisitor rumour is right, however, and the sculpts are the quality of Space Hulk's, they could see GK players buying the game for both its own merits and to give their main army some variety. Similarly, folks who regularly play DH might pick it up as a function of the tie-in.

Not saying that rationale is necessarily accurate, but it'd be a believable chain of logic for GW, going off their record thus far.

 frozenwastes wrote:
This is either:

a) the beginning of change where GW is re-evaluating their customer's experience of their games from the ground up

b) a limited edition one-off product that will never be allowed to grow beyond an original release as they still believe that anything but the core 3 (really 2) games will cannibalize 40k sales.

Survey says...

I'll believe it when I see it.

I could see them cutting off all the loose ends with the specialist games range before introducing a new skirmish game. That's something that actually does make sense to me.