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Honestly, I'm going to bite my tongue saying this, but I would like to see BA, SW, BT, and DA all rolled into the SM codex. From there, supplement! My biggest grievance with supplements is that most of them just really don't seem to do much. Well, that and they cost arguably too much and 2 of them are a single company in a chapter.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
now, i keep asking. whatd be the difference between a supplement and a codex? if its done right a supplement may as well be a standalone codex.

What is unique in the codex? That would go into the supplement. For BA's. Named HQs, Death Company, Baal Preds, etc.. There is no reason to list Rhinos, Razorbacks, Land Raiders, over and over in every SM variant codex.

Fragile wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
now, i keep asking. whatd be the difference between a supplement and a codex? if its done right a supplement may as well be a standalone codex.

What is unique in the codex? That would go into the supplement. For BA's. Named HQs, Death Company, Baal Preds, etc.. There is no reason to list Rhinos, Razorbacks, Land Raiders, over and over in every SM variant codex.

So wait.. itll be a codex but just of unique things so we have to pay twice to use it? Now how in any rational world is this better than a standalone dex?

 AtoMaki wrote:


Dude... There are players out there who use the BA codex, paint their models dark blue and play them as Night Lords (and I'm 5000% serious here)! Yeah, the Chaos Space Marine Night Lords. You can't go lower than that!

I have often considered using the BA list for a Ravenguard army, assault marines as troops, Storm Ravens (no longer necessary), fast/scouty vehicles...

All of which could be done in a standard codex with some special rules, chapter tactics, and fiddly bits as already noted by others.

The Tau, as an example, should have always had the ability to field an all crisis suit all the time army, or in the same vein, a stealth armor cadre. No reason that couldn't have been done in the codex itself.

Sang priest is a CT BA unit, honor guard can take Termi armor or jump packs (as can command squads), some way to unlock Assault Marines and Termis as troops, some vehicle upgrades as needed (that could even be CT specific), a few special characters, and bam DA and BA rolled into one codex.

SW, which I don't play, is a bit harder, but even they could be done, and they're more unique than the BAs.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

So wait.. itll be a codex but just of unique things so we have to pay twice to use it? Now how in any rational world is this better than a standalone dex?

Well in my perfect world of eternal sunshine where unicorns frolic on rainbows, GW would charge far less for supplements (dare I say, free for a no fluff version), which would only be a very small monetary increase over the codex alone and would keep the base codex at a reasonable size while allowing BA to keep more of their SCs which would only waste space in a rolled in book.

 Blacksails wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

So wait.. itll be a codex but just of unique things so we have to pay twice to use it? Now how in any rational world is this better than a standalone dex?

Well in my perfect world of eternal sunshine where unicorns frolic on rainbows, GW would charge far less for supplements (dare I say, free for a no fluff version), which would only be a very small monetary increase over the codex alone and would keep the base codex at a reasonable size while allowing BA to keep more of their SCs which would only waste space in a rolled in book.

well we seem to be out of unicorns and rainbows. Ill get the horses and party hats if you paint the sidewalks rainbow?

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

well we seem to be out of unicorns and rainbows. Ill get the horses and party hats if you paint the sidewalks rainbow?

Well, I've done weirder stuff while drunk.

Anyways, back on topic...

 soomemafia wrote:
BA have their unique stuff, but personally (as a BA player) I think that having four different codices for Space Marines is stupid.

Therefore, I voted for supplement.

Blood Angels would be on line with the rest of Marines (equal points).

Their chapter tactics would propably be similar to DoA and allowing ASM as troops.
Red Thirst would be eliminated but similar effects could still be gained by having a Sanguinary Priest around.
Baal Predator would either be eliminated or made avaivable to everyone.
Dante, Mephiston, Sanguinior and Corbulo would be the only named characters for us.
Our Vanguard Veterans might have some nice special rule, but that's it.

Just my suggestion. I know a lot of this seems harsh and we would lose a lot of our unique stuff.

But to be honest, I would be ready swap our 'dex into this.

(I hardly ever anything that C:SM don't have apart from ASM as troops, Priests and Furiosos).

Ow. Think I'd switch armies if it went down like this. I love a lot of options and a bunch of the unique stuff. Even if a sanguinary guard/Dante army is bad, I still have the models for it, because it's awesome that I CAN do that, even if it's effectiveness is...questionable at best. Even if a black tide death company is a HILARIOUSLY bad idea, I like having the option.

So to the raping and pillaging of my main army's codex, I say "oh god pls no" with a horror in my eyes.

niv-mizzet wrote:

Ow. Think I'd switch armies if it went down like this. I love a lot of options and a bunch of the unique stuff. Even if a sanguinary guard/Dante army is bad, I still have the models for it, because it's awesome that I CAN do that, even if it's effectiveness is...questionable at best. Even if a black tide death company is a HILARIOUSLY bad idea, I like having the option.

So to the raping and pillaging of my main army's codex, I say "oh god pls no" with a horror in my eyes.

And there's a compromise. A rolled in BA codex could still have DC and Sanguinary Guard with Dante and such. You just don't need another several dozen pages outlining the same tac/assault/devs/rhinos/razors/so on ad nauseum that every marine has.

Alternatively, a small supplement would work well too.

 Blacksails wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

well we seem to be out of unicorns and rainbows. Ill get the horses and party hats if you paint the sidewalks rainbow?

Well, I've done weirder stuff while drunk.

Anyways, back on topic...

I did not want to get involved, but I feel responsible for the creation of this thread and I should chime in.

Ignoring the fact that we are talking about Blood Angels.

What if the fundamental reason for being against another “Codex: Marine of a Different Color” if you don’t plan on buying it?
It won’t cost you a dime and the guy on the other side of the table his happy with his “Codex: Marine of a Different Color”.

Addressing the whole Black Templar issue: I was one of the first to when I heard you got rolled into Codex: Space Marine to decry it as Bull and would never wish that on anyone. If I had my way you would have gotten your Full Codex: Black Templar before I got me new Codex: Space Wolves

 Anpu42 wrote:

Addressing the whole Black Templar issue: I was one of the first to when I heard you got rolled into Codex: Space Marine to decry it as Bull and would never wish that on anyone. If I had my way you would have gotten your Full Codex: Black Templar before I got me new Codex: Space Wolves

I personally don't mind the whole folding into the Vanilla part, what I mind is the Chapter Tactics that don't do anything to make the army actually work the way it's intended. Then they go off and dedicate Supplements to Imperial Fist 3rd Companies, Iron Hands Clans and now Legion of the Damned. I wouldn't want them to do the same to other armies before they've figured out how to fix the mess they made with BT.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Addressing the whole Black Templar issue: I was one of the first to when I heard you got rolled into Codex: Space Marine to decry it as Bull and would never wish that on anyone. If I had my way you would have gotten your Full Codex: Black Templar before I got me new Codex: Space Wolves

I personally don't mind the whole folding into the Vanilla part, what I mind is the Chapter Tactics that don't do anything to make the army actually work the way it's intended. Then they go off and dedicate Supplements to Imperial Fist 3rd Companies, Iron Hands Clans and now Legion of the Damned. I wouldn't want them to do the same to other armies before they've figured out how to fix the mess they made with BT.

Same here

 Anpu42 wrote:
I did not want to get involved, but I feel responsible for the creation of this thread and I should chime in.

Ignoring the fact that we are talking about Blood Angels.

What if the fundamental reason for being against another “Codex: Marine of a Different Color” if you don’t plan on buying it?
It won’t cost you a dime and the guy on the other side of the table his happy with his “Codex: Marine of a Different Color”.

Addressing the whole Black Templar issue: I was one of the first to when I heard you got rolled into Codex: Space Marine to decry it as Bull and would never wish that on anyone. If I had my way you would have gotten your Full Codex: Black Templar before I got me new Codex: Space Wolves

I suppose there a couple of different reasons for it. If Codex: Blood Angels was rolled into the regular Space Marine dex the army would receive an update so it keeps the army up to date with the current 40k environment. I want to see Blood Angels on the table top and have them put up a fight.

Another reason is that it seems silly for them to have their own Codex when other variant armies don't even get a supplement. There is no Codex for Cadia or Vostroya so what makes the Marines so special? Why don't we have Codex: Imperial Fists or Codex: White Scars? Games Workshop could make up marines+1 units for them if they wanted. It's the principle of it all. Besides that, it seems wholly unecessary since there are few actually unique units to the Blood Angels. Space Wolves have thunder wolf cavalry at the very least. What Blood Angels have could be covered by a CT and a few unique options.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
I did not want to get involved, but I feel responsible for the creation of this thread and I should chime in.

Ignoring the fact that we are talking about Blood Angels.

What if the fundamental reason for being against another “Codex: Marine of a Different Color” if you don’t plan on buying it?
It won’t cost you a dime and the guy on the other side of the table his happy with his “Codex: Marine of a Different Color”.

Addressing the whole Black Templar issue: I was one of the first to when I heard you got rolled into Codex: Space Marine to decry it as Bull and would never wish that on anyone. If I had my way you would have gotten your Full Codex: Black Templar before I got me new Codex: Space Wolves

I suppose there a couple of different reasons for it. If Codex: Blood Angels was rolled into the regular Space Marine dex the army would receive an update so it keeps the army up to date with the current 40k environment. I want to see Blood Angels on the table top and have them put up a fight.

Another reason is that it seems silly for them to have their own Codex when other variant armies don't even get a supplement. There is no Codex for Cadia or Vostroya so what makes the Marines so special? Why don't we have Codex: Imperial Fists or Codex: White Scars? Games Workshop could make up marines+1 units for them if they wanted. It's the principle of it all. Besides that, it seems wholly unecessary since there are few actually unique units to the Blood Angels. Space Wolves have thunder wolf cavalry at the very least. What Blood Angels have could be covered by a CT and a few unique options.

Actualy I would love to see every Faction get thier own Codex for every army.
I do not think though any current Codex should not be removed. We are not talking about adding a New Army like the Knights, but an Army that has had their own Codex since 3rd Edition, Space Wolves Since 2nd.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
I did not want to get involved, but I feel responsible for the creation of this thread and I should chime in.

Ignoring the fact that we are talking about Blood Angels.

What if the fundamental reason for being against another “Codex: Marine of a Different Color” if you don’t plan on buying it?
It won’t cost you a dime and the guy on the other side of the table his happy with his “Codex: Marine of a Different Color”.

Addressing the whole Black Templar issue: I was one of the first to when I heard you got rolled into Codex: Space Marine to decry it as Bull and would never wish that on anyone. If I had my way you would have gotten your Full Codex: Black Templar before I got me new Codex: Space Wolves

I suppose there a couple of different reasons for it. If Codex: Blood Angels was rolled into the regular Space Marine dex the army would receive an update so it keeps the army up to date with the current 40k environment. I want to see Blood Angels on the table top and have them put up a fight.

Another reason is that it seems silly for them to have their own Codex when other variant armies don't even get a supplement. There is no Codex for Cadia or Vostroya so what makes the Marines so special? Why don't we have Codex: Imperial Fists or Codex: White Scars? Games Workshop could make up marines+1 units for them if they wanted. It's the principle of it all. Besides that, it seems wholly unecessary since there are few actually unique units to the Blood Angels. Space Wolves have thunder wolf cavalry at the very least. What Blood Angels have could be covered by a CT and a few unique options.

the same could be said for every regiment, every ork warband, every chaos legion. The point is to go further than the minimum to make them unique. BA have developed to contain as many unique units as core units over the editions and to have it rolled in with only afraction of those units would be no less than an outrage (and would invalidate models and GW products)

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
I did not want to get involved, but I feel responsible for the creation of this thread and I should chime in.

Ignoring the fact that we are talking about Blood Angels.

What if the fundamental reason for being against another “Codex: Marine of a Different Color” if you don’t plan on buying it?
It won’t cost you a dime and the guy on the other side of the table his happy with his “Codex: Marine of a Different Color”.

Addressing the whole Black Templar issue: I was one of the first to when I heard you got rolled into Codex: Space Marine to decry it as Bull and would never wish that on anyone. If I had my way you would have gotten your Full Codex: Black Templar before I got me new Codex: Space Wolves

I suppose there a couple of different reasons for it. If Codex: Blood Angels was rolled into the regular Space Marine dex the army would receive an update so it keeps the army up to date with the current 40k environment. I want to see Blood Angels on the table top and have them put up a fight.

Another reason is that it seems silly for them to have their own Codex when other variant armies don't even get a supplement. There is no Codex for Cadia or Vostroya so what makes the Marines so special? Why don't we have Codex: Imperial Fists or Codex: White Scars? Games Workshop could make up marines+1 units for them if they wanted. It's the principle of it all. Besides that, it seems wholly unecessary since there are few actually unique units to the Blood Angels. Space Wolves have thunder wolf cavalry at the very least. What Blood Angels have could be covered by a CT and a few unique options.

the same could be said for every regiment, every ork warband, every chaos legion. The point is to go further than the minimum to make them unique. BA have developed to contain as many unique units as core units over the editions and to have it rolled in with only afraction of those units would be no less than an outrage (and would invalidate models and GW products)

Alright, to demonstrate the issue I have with this argument, let's try to take another first founding chapter and giving them the Blood Angels treatment. How about... Ultramarines? Yeah, Ultramarines, the poster boys of GW. Let's take three units and one vehicle and modify them to make unique units.

So, what is cool and is related to what Ultramarines do? Sternguard are pretty cool and Ultras have some veterans because of the Tyrannic war. So, this new unit will be called Tyrannic War Veterans. They will redo the current Tyrannic War Veterans box to a full fledged plastic sprue. Their main weapon will not be a bolter but a thing called a Macragge pattern Boltgun. This boltgun is S: 4 AP 5 24" Rapid Fire and poisoned. In addition, once per game their shots can count as twin linked to represent their skill at arms. In addition, they have Hatred: Tyranids.

What else is ultramariney? Honor Guard. Honor Guard are pretty cool and Marneus Calgar is pretty cool. So why don't we have a unit called Calgar Guard? These are the elite badasses who protect Marneus with their lives and occasionally go out and perform tasks in his name. Calgar Guard come equipped with Thunder Hammers and Artificer armor by default. They will have their own models which are Marines wearing Mk. 8 and with "U"s all over it.

Champions are awesome too. We'll call them "Champions of Ultramar" and have them come in groups of three. They will be pretty much the same as regular champions except they have their own models and have relic blades by default. Again, Mk. 8 and covered in "U"s.

Actually, I want a new unit that you can make an army out of since people really like that sort of thing. You know what's really popular? 2nd company. So, how about we make our own model line out of them called 2nd Company Astartes which are the same as the regular tactical box except with more Mk. 8 pieces and "U"s. You can give them more Combi weapons and special weapons than regular marines.

As for the vehicles, let's not make too many different plastic kits since we can't hire too many sculptors. How about a special Land Raider called the Macragge pattern Land Raider which is similiar to the regular Land Raider except it can transport 18 models and has Plasma Cannon sponsons.

Oh, wait, we need war gear too. So... let's have a Plasma Pistol that doesn't get hot, a Thunder Hammer with AP 1 and Fleshbane, a Boltgun that's salvo 4/5 and a Grenade that prevents overwatch. Give them special names and you are good to go.

But, people want them back in the regular Codex! How can you?! There are so many new and exciting units that will suddenly become invalidated. A supplement, they cry? No, that will be unwieldy. Just leave them with their own codex.

TL;DR, the units that make C: BA special aren't all that special and can be represented with regular marine rules and some CT thrown in for flavor. As said previously, the rules don't make the army the people who play them do.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
I did not want to get involved, but I feel responsible for the creation of this thread and I should chime in.

Ignoring the fact that we are talking about Blood Angels.

What if the fundamental reason for being against another “Codex: Marine of a Different Color” if you don’t plan on buying it?
It won’t cost you a dime and the guy on the other side of the table his happy with his “Codex: Marine of a Different Color”.

Addressing the whole Black Templar issue: I was one of the first to when I heard you got rolled into Codex: Space Marine to decry it as Bull and would never wish that on anyone. If I had my way you would have gotten your Full Codex: Black Templar before I got me new Codex: Space Wolves

I suppose there a couple of different reasons for it. If Codex: Blood Angels was rolled into the regular Space Marine dex the army would receive an update so it keeps the army up to date with the current 40k environment. I want to see Blood Angels on the table top and have them put up a fight.

Another reason is that it seems silly for them to have their own Codex when other variant armies don't even get a supplement. There is no Codex for Cadia or Vostroya so what makes the Marines so special? Why don't we have Codex: Imperial Fists or Codex: White Scars? Games Workshop could make up marines+1 units for them if they wanted. It's the principle of it all. Besides that, it seems wholly unecessary since there are few actually unique units to the Blood Angels. Space Wolves have thunder wolf cavalry at the very least. What Blood Angels have could be covered by a CT and a few unique options.

the same could be said for every regiment, every ork warband, every chaos legion. The point is to go further than the minimum to make them unique. BA have developed to contain as many unique units as core units over the editions and to have it rolled in with only afraction of those units would be no less than an outrage (and would invalidate models and GW products)

Alright, to demonstrate the issue I have with this argument, let's try to take another first founding chapter and giving them the Blood Angels treatment. How about... Ultramarines? Yeah, Ultramarines, the poster boys of GW. Let's take three units and one vehicle and modify them to make unique units.

So, what is cool and is related to what Ultramarines do? Sternguard are pretty cool and Ultras have some veterans because of the Tyrannic war. So, this new unit will be called Tyrannic War Veterans. They will redo the current Tyrannic War Veterans box to a full fledged plastic sprue. Their main weapon will not be a bolter but a thing called a Macragge pattern Boltgun. This boltgun is S: 4 AP 5 24" Rapid Fire and poisoned. In addition, once per game their shots can count as twin linked to represent their skill at arms. In addition, they have Hatred: Tyranids.

What else is ultramariney? Honor Guard. Honor Guard are pretty cool and Marneus Calgar is pretty cool. So why don't we have a unit called Calgar Guard? These are the elite badasses who protect Marneus with their lives and occasionally go out and perform tasks in his name. Calgar Guard come equipped with Thunder Hammers and Artificer armor by default. They will have their own models which are Marines wearing Mk. 8 and with "U"s all over it.

Champions are awesome too. We'll call them "Champions of Ultramar" and have them come in groups of three. They will be pretty much the same as regular champions except they have their own models and have relic blades by default. Again, Mk. 8 and covered in "U"s.

Actually, I want a new unit that you can make an army out of since people really like that sort of thing. You know what's really popular? 2nd company. So, how about we make our own model line out of them called 2nd Company Astartes which are the same as the regular tactical box except with more Mk. 8 pieces and "U"s. You can give them more Combi weapons and special weapons than regular marines.

As for the vehicles, let's not make too many different plastic kits since we can't hire too many sculptors. How about a special Land Raider called the Macragge pattern Land Raider which is similiar to the regular Land Raider except it can transport 18 models and has Plasma Cannon sponsons.

Oh, wait, we need war gear too. So... let's have a Plasma Pistol that doesn't get hot, a Thunder Hammer with AP 1 and Fleshbane, a Boltgun that's salvo 4/5 and a Grenade that prevents overwatch. Give them special names and you are good to go.

But, people want them back in the regular Codex! How can you?! There are so many new and exciting units that will suddenly become invalidated. A supplement, they cry? No, that will be unwieldy. Just leave them with their own codex.

TL;DR, the units that make C: BA special aren't all that special and can be represented with regular marine rules and some CT thrown in for flavor. As said previously, the rules don't make the army the people who play them do.

I would see nothing wrong with having a Codex: Ultra Marines for playing my Ultra Marines.
Becouse now I am playing Ultra Marines, not Codex: Space Marines with Ultra Marines Chapter Tactics.

A few things I love about the Codex, then supplement idea......

First- is if it were to happen watching EVERYONE rage about how greedy GW is and how everyone is going to point at them taking codexs that were 50 to start with putting them into one big C:SM book that's going to cost even more than its already inflated price because you just folded DA, SW and BA all back in and THEN charge them the extra $50.00 on top and just say SEE SEE GW are the holes we thought they were and they are greedy.

Second- well if you streamlined there where does it stop? why not fold chaos into one big happy Codex and just throw out extra supplements for Chaos SM's and each God of Chaos Daemons. Of course I already hear the cries of "you're just taking it to the extreme" and "they're too different" and or "there's too much content for that to happen" . well is there!?!? I mean if you can fit every single chapter of marines in one book why can't you put their biggest rival who supposed to work hand and hand together?

Lets go a little farther , how bout Making Codex inquisition what it should be and roll in Grey Knights and SOB in. There now they get regular updates and a supplement too. so in other words GW now gets to charge everyone for a codex and a matching supplement so it now goes too $100.00 (just for your rules in a company that makes models not rules remember? that next part is key to stage 3)

Third- Cool now everyone is getting rolled in and we can get to regular updates...... just one minor issue...... you now have one team writing the regular book and another team writing digital supplements (oh yea btw hope you wanted digital cause that's how its going to be) and these two teams , now what do YOU think the odds are that they are working together and coming up with a balanced plan? lol aw come on you have to know the answer to that one? so this leaves the door open for even more lose rules than we have now and potential for and even farther gap between some books and their supplement.

But hey I'm going to be told I'm just taking it to the extreme..... too bad everyone of you knows that if GW figures out they can double tap you like that then they will. So in all honesty we better be careful what we say because GW will read threads like this and think..... hell THEY said they would pay us TWICE why aren't we doing this!?!?!

Okay, sir, here is the problem with that argument. Chaos Space Marines have appreciably different units than the Space Marines do. Things like Dinbots, Bezerkers, Noise Marines and Defilers don't have direct equivalents within the loyalist marines.

What Blood Angels have are just units from Codex: Space Marines with a couple of special rules on top. In addition, you have a lot of common units between Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Blood Angels.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Okay, sir, here is the problem with that argument. Chaos Space Marines have appreciably different units than the Space Marines do. Things like Dinbots, Bezerkers, Noise Marines and Defilers don't have direct equivalents within the loyalist marines.

What Blood Angels have are just units from Codex: Space Marines with a couple of special rules on top. In addition, you have a lot of common units between Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Blood Angels.

And? that's great, we will get all those in with CT and a supplement. also we are only putting two groups together and they are two groups who work together not apart. on the other hand we are putting how many chapters with chapter tactics for each one and a supplement to make them work together in one book?

**EDIT** I feel I should make clear when I say roll Chaos SM in I mean into the Chaos Daemon codex... not into C:SM - that would in fact just be pure stupid.

tell me whats to stop GW for doing just that and getting you twice? You see I accept the argument that it can be done however I feel if you accept that then you must also accept it can be done with several books and in the process make GW more money ( boy they hate that don't they)



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blacksails wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

So wait.. itll be a codex but just of unique things so we have to pay twice to use it? Now how in any rational world is this better than a standalone dex?

Well in my perfect world of eternal sunshine where unicorns frolic on rainbows, GW would charge far less for supplements (dare I say, free for a no fluff version), which would only be a very small monetary increase over the codex alone and would keep the base codex at a reasonable size while allowing BA to keep more of their SCs which would only waste space in a rolled in book.

also Blacksails , though I argued with you I want to point out that IF and I do mean IF this part was true and each of those codex supplements were in fact worth a snot ( I hold Farsight Enclaves as a standard) that I would in fact be on board. However I feel that my concerns of price and balance still remain very much valid. two things GW doesn't have a great rep for at all.

There should be 2 SM Codices: Codex: Codex-Adherent and Codex: Not-Codex-Adherent.

In one book, you get the UM and all their Successors, and every other Chapter that is, by their fluff, adherent to the in-universe Codex Astartes.

In the other book, you get Space Wolves and Grey Knights and all the other Chapters that don't follow at least half the Codex Astartes strictures. This would also include Renegade Chapters that are not Chaos Space Marines.

For Chaos... you have Codex: Chaos Space Marines, and you use things similar to Chapter Tactics to replicate being aligned to one Dark Power or another... and maybe that opens up a few different units based on whatever god you want to follow, and then one for being aligned to Chaos Undivided.

 BlackArmour wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Okay, sir, here is the problem with that argument. Chaos Space Marines have appreciably different units than the Space Marines do. Things like Dinbots, Bezerkers, Noise Marines and Defilers don't have direct equivalents within the loyalist marines.

What Blood Angels have are just units from Codex: Space Marines with a couple of special rules on top. In addition, you have a lot of common units between Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Blood Angels.

And? that's great, we will get all those in with CT and a supplement. also we are only putting two groups together and they are two groups who work together not apart. on the other hand we are putting how many chapters with chapter tactics for each one and a supplement to make them work together in one book?

tell me whats to stop GW for doing just that and getting you twice? You see I accept the argument that it can be done however I feel if you accept that then you must also accept it can be done with several books and in the process make GW more money ( boy they hate that don't they)

You don't have to buy the supplement if it's done right. All they have to do is include a couple of unique units like the Baal Predator and the Furioso Dreadnought while making the CT to represent the Blood Angels right. That way you can make a flavorful army that plays like the Blood Angels should without having to buy a supplement. You'd only have to get it if you really like Blood Angels and want the really specialized rules and wargear.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Okay, sir, here is the problem with that argument. Chaos Space Marines have appreciably different units than the Space Marines do. Things like Dinbots, Bezerkers, Noise Marines and Defilers don't have direct equivalents within the loyalist marines.

What Blood Angels have are just units from Codex: Space Marines with a couple of special rules on top. In addition, you have a lot of common units between Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Blood Angels.

They have Some units in common with Codex: Space Marines. The only unit I can think of that is not affected by a Blood Angel Rule it Land Speeders.
Here are something else to think about. To make Blood Angels work in Codex: Space Marines you would have to add Chapter Tactics to Dreads and something Special to All of the Vehicles exept Land Speeders.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Okay, sir, here is the problem with that argument. Chaos Space Marines have appreciably different units than the Space Marines do. Things like Dinbots, Bezerkers, Noise Marines and Defilers don't have direct equivalents within the loyalist marines.

What Blood Angels have are just units from Codex: Space Marines with a couple of special rules on top. In addition, you have a lot of common units between Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Blood Angels.

They have Some units in common with Codex: Space Marines. The only unit I can think of that is not affected by a Blood Angel Rule it Land Speeders.
Here are something else to think about. To make Blood Angels work in Codex: Space Marines you would have to add Chapter Tactics to Dreads and something Special to All of the Vehicles exept Land Speeders.

Captains, Command Squads, Librarians, Sternguard Veterans, Terminator Squads, Terminator Assault Squads, Chaplains, Apothecaries, Land Raidesr, Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer, Drop Pods, Rhinos, Land Speeders Bikes, Vanguard Veterans, Stormravens, Dreadnoughts, Whirlwinds, Vindicators, Predators and Devastator Squads. I think Chapter Masters too. Yeah, I think that's more than some.

Really, all you have to do is add Fast as a CT for Vehicles.

I dont have a problem with the BA having their own codex as long as it doesn't read like the current SM codex.

The Fifth edition BA codex was a 90% cut and paste from the SM codex and then had a bunch of unique stuff added on top. That is the BS part of the design decision.

If you want to be worthy of a stand a lone divergent codex, then be divergent. You can't/shouldn't have everything the other guy has and then just more. What are you willing to give up? You want Baal Preds, fine, but you dont get the classic pred load-outs. You want Librarian dreads, fine, you loose Ironclads. You want Sanguinary Guard, fine, but you loose honor guard/retinue type units.

That is what I see from most BA players when this topic comes up. You want your cake, and that guys cake, and something from that desert table over there.

As a CSM player, I wouldn't mind seeing those snowflake chapters with hardly any reason to be outside the main codex shoved right back in.

We can't even get additional codex variations for things that actually are unique. Why is some 'slightly divergent' chapter getting a codex again?

 Jayden63 wrote:
I dont have a problem with the BA having their own codex as long as it doesn't read like the current SM codex.

The Fifth edition BA codex was a 90% cut and paste from the SM codex and then had a bunch of unique stuff added on top. That is the BS part of the design decision.

If you want to be worthy of a stand a lone divergent codex, then be divergent. You can't/shouldn't have everything the other guy has and then just more. What are you willing to give up? You want Baal Preds, fine, but you dont get the classic pred load-outs. You want Librarian dreads, fine, you loose Ironclads. You want Sanguinary Guard, fine, but you loose honor guard/retinue type units.

That is what I see from most BA players when this topic comes up. You want your cake, and that guys cake, and something from that desert table over there.

by all means I follow your logic and agree 100% if these codexs get pulled out they need to go even farther to distance them selves from the pack, hell I'm not even opposed to BA basic troops losing a BS skill point in the name of getting better close combat abilities , they train with JP's and Close Combat weapons they should be better at it and worse by default at shooting since they train less at it.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Okay, sir, here is the problem with that argument. Chaos Space Marines have appreciably different units than the Space Marines do. Things like Dinbots, Bezerkers, Noise Marines and Defilers don't have direct equivalents within the loyalist marines.

What Blood Angels have are just units from Codex: Space Marines with a couple of special rules on top. In addition, you have a lot of common units between Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Blood Angels.

They have Some units in common with Codex: Space Marines. The only unit I can think of that is not affected by a Blood Angel Rule it Land Speeders.
Here are something else to think about. To make Blood Angels work in Codex: Space Marines you would have to add Chapter Tactics to Dreads and something Special to All of the Vehicles exept Land Speeders.

Captains, Command Squads, Librarians, Sternguard Veterans, Terminator Squads, Terminator Assault Squads, Chaplains, Apothecaries, Land Raidesr, Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer, Drop Pods, Rhinos, Land Speeders Bikes, Vanguard Veterans, Stormravens, Dreadnoughts, Whirlwinds, Vindicators, Predators and Devastator Squads. I think Chapter Masters too. Yeah, I think that's more than some.

Really, all you have to do is add Fast as a CT for Vehicles.

And each of them needs to have Special Equipment/Rules added to them, except for Terminator Squads, Drop Pods. Land Speeders and Stormravens

Captains: Red Thirst, Infernus Pistols
Command Squads [Apothecaries]: Red Thirst, Infernus Pistols, Jump Packs
Librarians: Red Thirst, Infernus Pistols
Sternguard Veterans: Red Thirst, Infernus Pistols
Chaplains: Red Thirst, Infernus Pistols
Land Raiders [All]: Deep Strike
Rhinos: Fast
Bikes: Red Thirst, Infernus Pistols
Vanguard Veterans: Red Thirst, Infernus Pistols
Dreadnoughts: Do not Have
Whirlwinds: Fast
Vindicators: Fast
Predators: Fast
Devastator Squads: Red Thirst, Infernus Pistols
Assault Squads: Red Thirst, Infernus Pistols and make a Troop Choice

Each one of those would require a “Special Entry” to cover them.
[Apologies to the Black Templars for this]
It only took 4 Entries and Combat Tactics to roll in the Black Templars, but ask any Black Templar player if they are now playing Black Templars, you will probably get one of two reposnses.
1] Yes, but they do not feel right
2] No I play White Scars that happen to look like Black Templars and it still does not feel right.

This last part should be enough a reason not to roll them into Codex: Space Marines. All Rolling them into Codex: Space Marines will do is alienate players.
Ask Martel about it, even though he is getting hammered constantly and has even been told to create a “Count As” Blood Angels army has shown his loyalty to a now bottom tier book to the point of he would rather loose than go to another Codex.

No, it wouldn't. Infernus Pistols, even if they aren't available to any marine chapter, are something that only require one entry either in the special weapons or ranged weapons list. The "Red Thirst" entry can be covered by Chapter Tactics as can Fast.