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Not to worry lads! With the new Black Legion formations your Chaos Terminators can be Fearless when they're joined by a Chaos Lord! Let's see those Space Marines deal with that!

Maybe the bright side to this is that BA will be the only chapter that can actually get games. Yes, BA could take this power, but we've got no conclave, and no deathstar to cast it on.

BA has a unit that can take bikes + storm shields, no?

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
BA has a unit that can take bikes + storm shields, no?

I don't think my command squad gets bikes. Only jump packs. They do get storm shields, but only on three dudes.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
BA has a unit that can take bikes + storm shields, no?

No actually

well. I can see the strong cheese with that.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Not to worry lads! With the new Black Legion formations your Chaos Terminators can be Fearless when they're joined by a Chaos Lord! Let's see those Space Marines deal with that!

The Chaos Sorcerers gain Fearless as well, and you can add Chosen instead of Terminators.

Just pointing out that getting Fearless added to your Psyker at no points cost isn't exactly something to sneeze at.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Not to worry lads! With the new Black Legion formations your Chaos Terminators can be Fearless when they're joined by a Chaos Lord! Let's see those Space Marines deal with that!

The Chaos Sorcerers gain Fearless as well, and you can add Chosen instead of Terminators.

Just pointing out that getting Fearless added to your Psyker at no points cost isn't exactly something to sneeze at.

There isn't no point cost. The formation requires that you put it in a tax terminator or chosen unit

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Not to worry lads! With the new Black Legion formations your Chaos Terminators can be Fearless when they're joined by a Chaos Lord! Let's see those Space Marines deal with that!

The Chaos Sorcerers gain Fearless as well, and you can add Chosen instead of Terminators.

Just pointing out that getting Fearless added to your Psyker at no points cost isn't exactly something to sneeze at.

There isn't no point cost. The formation requires that you put it in a tax terminator or chosen unit

Does it cost you points to add Fearless to your Sorcerer?
No, it doesn't.

And really, taking Chosen units is a "tax" now? Terminators yeah, sure that's a tax. But being able to pick between Chosen or Terminators--it's a pretty easy decision to make.

Both Chosen and Termis are bad. So yes both are taxes

Email Regarding Sevrin Loth in a Librarius Conclave, to those who asked and are wondering

This honestly to me seems to break 40k worse than the dreaded scatter laser did... I've been thinking of how to deal with this and I'm lost.

And there's more powers yet still unseen.

commander dante wrote:
Email Regarding Sevrin Loth in a Librarius Conclave, to those who asked and are wondering

Emails aren't rules sources

 CrownAxe wrote:

commander dante wrote:
Email Regarding Sevrin Loth in a Librarius Conclave, to those who asked and are wondering

Emails aren't rules sources

I don't think he was claiming that the e-mail is a rules source. It had been previously mentioned that FW said Loth can be used in a Conclave via e-mail, and people asked about it.

 Happyjew wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

commander dante wrote:
Email Regarding Sevrin Loth in a Librarius Conclave, to those who asked and are wondering

Emails aren't rules sources

I don't think he was claiming that the e-mail is a rules source. It had been previously mentioned that FW said Loth can be used in a Conclave via e-mail, and people asked about it.

That was the Intention
Well the good thing is it will be revised whenever FW decide to release an FaQ

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Not to worry lads! With the new Black Legion formations your Chaos Terminators can be Fearless when they're joined by a Chaos Lord! Let's see those Space Marines deal with that!

The Chaos Sorcerers gain Fearless as well, and you can add Chosen instead of Terminators.

Just pointing out that getting Fearless added to your Psyker at no points cost isn't exactly something to sneeze at.

I am aware of that, thank you. However this of course begs the question - why allow the lord to be taken in the first place if by doing so you make the only (good) benefit of the formation completely redundant? The way they wrote the rule, the lord has to join the unit, can never leave and the unit only gains Fearless while the he's alive. The rule literally does nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Or conversely, if you're intent on allowing the lord in the formation, why not make the benefit something both the lord and the sorcerer can use? Oh no, can't have that - might be too powerful!

It just smacks of the timid lackadaisical phone-it-in style of writing that seems to be a hallmark of CSM rules for the past decade. I guess that's what you get for winning the Eye of Terror campaign when you weren't supposed to.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
This honestly to me seems to break 40k worse than the dreaded scatter laser did... I've been thinking of how to deal with this and I'm lost.

And there's more powers yet still unseen.

There is no denying that, dare I say they are now almost on par with eldar cheese?
This power needs to be "faq" to only reroll armour saves or its going to break the crap out of the game, and im debaiting if its even worthwhile to continue expanding on my sisters if this is going to be Warhammer40k:Marines.

 Happyjew wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

commander dante wrote:
Email Regarding Sevrin Loth in a Librarius Conclave, to those who asked and are wondering

Emails aren't rules sources

I don't think he was claiming that the e-mail is a rules source. It had been previously mentioned that FW said Loth can be used in a Conclave via e-mail, and people asked about it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but forge world seems to have an auto reply of "play the game however you think is reasonable". It's not quite as bad as GW's "FORGE A NARRATIVE OR THREE" but they will almost always tell you that it's fine to play something one way, so long as it seems relatively reasonable.

Do I think that Loth should go in a Librarius Conclave? Without a doubt. Do I think that many tournaments will allow this? Yes. But would I be surprised if some (even some larger ones) decided not to? Not one bit

There was a reason why marines never had reroll saves because they get tons of 2+ and 3++ and FNP. Eldar just had 4+ and 3+'s on some things.

Now even the humble hammernators are 1/36 to kill with standard weapons and 1/9 to kill with Ap2. Not to mention if they then throw FNP into the mix or throwing in a libby conclave and rolling sanctuary.

Even guardsmen with a sang priest, libby conclave and azreal is just smacking your head against the wall.

It completely changes the meta for sure.

 Ravenous D wrote:
There was a reason why marines never had reroll saves because they get tons of 2+ and 3++ and FNP. Eldar just had 4+ and 3+'s on some things.

Now even the humble hammernators are 1/36 to kill with standard weapons and 1/9 to kill with Ap2. Not to mention if they then throw FNP into the mix or throwing in a libby conclave and rolling sanctuary.

Even guardsmen with a sang priest, libby conclave and azreal is just smacking your head against the wall.

It completely changes the meta for sure.

You are making the mistake of assuming that any thought at all was ever put into this. Marines never had reroll saves because they didn't. Eldar are perfectly capable of abusing fortune, but there's just even better things for them to abuse now. Like tabling lists in two turns. So no, there's no reason. Because GW doesn't make reasoned decisions. They vomit out random gak and people lap it up.

Gentle jebus there is some gloom and doom in here. Yes, it will be problematic, but only on deathstars. If it worked across the entire conclave, yea I can see it being as bad as everyone is assuming it will be, but as of now it's only the psykers unit. Not much (if any) worse than what eldar have been doing for 2 editions now. Unless I'm missing something this is being blown way the hell out of proportion. That said, if there other new powers that can buff this buff then yes, it will be pretty awful. I mean worst case scenario is it is used to buff units that probably weren't going down to much outside Str D anyway.

text removed.

Reds8n

Unfortunately for you, I'm right. There is no thought put into any of this. So there is no "reason".

Your attitude amuses me because you probably couldn't win a game with a list as weak as BA. Too used to your point and click Eldar wins.

 Ravenous D wrote:
There was a reason why marines never had reroll saves because they get tons of 2+ and 3++ and FNP. Eldar just had 4+ and 3+'s on some things.

Now even the humble hammernators are 1/36 to kill with standard weapons and 1/9 to kill with Ap2. Not to mention if they then throw FNP into the mix or throwing in a libby conclave and rolling sanctuary.

Even guardsmen with a sang priest, libby conclave and azreal is just smacking your head against the wall.

It completely changes the meta for sure.

Now imagine a couple biker libbies with Veil of Time, Endurance, Sanctuary, and Invisibility rolling alongside some TWC all with TH/SS. If all powers go off and they get in combat... Better have your enemy kiss his unit goodbye.

Martel732 wrote:Unfortunately for you, I'm right. There is no thought put into any of this. So there is no "reason".

Your attitude amuses me because you probably couldn't win a game with a list as weak as BA. Too used to your point and click Eldar wins.

Ditto. I'll be impressed by these "learn to play" people when they win a competitive match using an Ork trukk army.

Traditio wrote:

Martel732 wrote:Unfortunately for you, I'm right. There is no thought put into any of this. So there is no "reason".

Your attitude amuses me because you probably couldn't win a game with a list as weak as BA. Too used to your point and click Eldar wins.

Ditto. I'll be impressed by these "learn to play" people when they win a competitive match using an Ork trukk army.

That would make me a third. Easy to spout nonsense like L2P when you're currently cleaning out swathes of the table with Str D templates, bikes that skirt the length of the board in a turn and single models that soak up an entire armies worth of shooting. When they step into a different pair of shoes and have to nut up and figure how to beat this stupidness with what are by all acounts the worst books with the most limited strategies and monobuild playstyles they'd be singing an entirely different tune. Hard to identify with the have not when you've had a silver wraith bone stuck up your backside ever since you picked up the dice.


Back on topic, I still think this is being blown out of proportion. The only problem I can forsee is the effect it will have on already stupidly hard to kill deathstars. Otherwise I can see it helping out a few armies in desperate need of a bone (most IoM armies that AREN'T vanilla SM, DA or SW, but are battle brothers with them) or generally shaking up the meta. The latter of the two actually being good things.

The re-roll armour saves spell won't break the game much if at all, and every player who is well versed in the game knows this.

It will only make the already unkillable deathstars more unkillable, hardly changing anything. The same counters that worked on those before will continue to do so all the same.

Invisibility is still better/worse whichever way one wants to put it. Someones terminators re-rolling their saves is hardly a bad thing, maybe those will actually start appearing outside casual matches.

Martel732 wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
There was a reason why marines never had reroll saves because they get tons of 2+ and 3++ and FNP. Eldar just had 4+ and 3+'s on some things.

Now even the humble hammernators are 1/36 to kill with standard weapons and 1/9 to kill with Ap2. Not to mention if they then throw FNP into the mix or throwing in a libby conclave and rolling sanctuary.

Even guardsmen with a sang priest, libby conclave and azreal is just smacking your head against the wall.

It completely changes the meta for sure.

You are making the mistake of assuming that any thought at all was ever put into this. Marines never had reroll saves because they didn't. Eldar are perfectly capable of abusing fortune, but there's just even better things for them to abuse now. Like tabling lists in two turns. So no, there's no reason. Because GW doesn't make reasoned decisions. They vomit out random gak and people lap it up.

This is pretty much it, Eldar have their ways of utilizing 2+ saves of various sorts with rerolls, marines didn't get it just because nobody decided to do so, no different than any other faction.

So, Tigurius with Telepathy, a level 2 with Divinaion, and a level 2 with Librarius? Or should I say bollocks to divination now and go straight up Biomancy for endurance.

But my Ignore Cover and Rerolls to hit...

 Runic wrote:
The re-roll armour saves spell won't break the game much if at all, and every player who is well versed in the game knows this.

It will only make the already unkillable deathstars more unkillable, hardly changing anything. The same counters that worked on those before will continue to do so all the same.

Invisibility is still better/worse whichever way one wants to put it. Someones terminators re-rolling their saves is hardly a bad thing, maybe those will actually start appearing outside casual matches.

It rerolls all saves. Sanctuary + storm shields equals unkillable. I used to be able to kill the death stars, now I can't. It doesn't change the meta much, but it completely changes my ability to deal with the meta.