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Well it did cross my mind along with the "only GW can have video cameras and interviewers" control freakery thing.

But didn't wish to appear too cynical that GW would be so manipulative and deceiptful.
Just caught a glimpse of a guy with a watering can and a bottle of Baby Bio, so I did wonder.

I think GW jumped the shark on this one.

People are pirated out right now, largely due to too many pirates sequels.

2 starter fleets for uncharted seas or dystopian wars + the core rule book will cost less than dread fleet.

There is only 1 ship from each WHFB army in dread fleet. There is no way to build a fleet to match an army.

They are trying to copy space hulk's success, but they are ignoring everything that made space hulk successful. It's not going to be as successful as space hulk.

Wot? Pirated out? By a few meh films?

This is not possible my man.

Now ninjas and Vikings; gah, BORING!

So is this thing meant to be a Dark Elf Black Ark or are the Dark Elves completely ignored in a Naval game?

I'm pretty sure that fluffwise the Dark Elves have the most powerful navy in the warhammer world so why would they be ignored in a naval game? If it is a Black Ark then my imaginings of what it would look like was way out. I thought it would be more stylish with plenty of pointy bits to stick High Elf heads.

It's a Vampire Count's ship.

The Dark Elves were left out. Why we do not know. Likely because this is a kind of "coalition" of various races, and we all know the Dark Elves don't play nice.

But the Skaven do?

To be fair, the Skaven isn't really a Skaven anymore it seems. They died, and the Vampire resurrected them.

So fake Skaven, Vampire Counts, Tomb Kings (are the Tomb Kings anywhere near any large body of water?) and Chaos Dwarfs (interesting, maybe they're going to be making a comeback to the main game in the future?). I can understand them wanting to fit in the armies that they've redone recently (or are redoing soon) but to not include the main evil naval power is a bit strange (if it involved killing high elves and the prospect of fresh slaves then the Dark Elves would be ok with a coalition until it suited them to stab everyone in the back).

Dwarfs (both chaos and otherwise) was a bit surprising. Didn't think the stunties were big seafarers.

Didn't think the stunties were big seafarers.

That is correct by definition

Not sure how they see over the gunwales tbh

They use little boxes to stand on of course.

Not good in heavy seas!

Just a little past midnight GW sent out my copy of the game, with a tracking number, that actually works.

A Town Called Malus wrote:So fake Skaven, Vampire Counts, Tomb Kings (are the Tomb Kings anywhere near any large body of water?) and Chaos Dwarfs (interesting, maybe they're going to be making a comeback to the main game in the future?). I can understand them wanting to fit in the armies that they've redone recently (or are redoing soon) but to not include the main evil naval power is a bit strange (if it involved killing high elves and the prospect of fresh slaves then the Dark Elves would be ok with a coalition until it suited them to stab everyone in the back).

Dwarfs (both chaos and otherwise) was a bit surprising. Didn't think the stunties were big seafarers.

Fluff has it that both the Dwarves and their Chaos cousins have substantial fleets using their superior technology - the Dwarves having a massive base and shipyard (Barak Var?) near the Border Princes and regularily test their guns on hostile Goblin tribes etc. Chaos Dwarves are heavily featured in the new Forgewolrd stuff coming out and the New Warhammer Forge book. The Tomb Kings fluff includes at least one substatinal fleet whose remannts are becoming more and more active. I agree its a pity no Dark Elves though.........

I think the fact that it a naval skirmish game between pirates vice a big naval batle game between nations/races may explain why there are no Dark Eldar.

Pirates tend to avoid going near big powerful navies as big powerful navies tend to destroy them.

Very true normally - however in this game the ships that each Pirate Lord commands are huge and I would think a match for any warship in the warhammer world - the Vampire Counts flagship is likely similar in size to a Black Ark whilst the Empire warship has a 180 guns and a gignatic steam powered hammer. Normal pirate ships seem to be the reletively tiny Escorts that can be seen in some pictures.

The owner of my FLGS, said he has had alot of phone calls from GW asking him to buy more and more Dreadfleet. He bought his original allocation.

Since this they keep asking him to buy more and more (at least 4 calls and a few e-mails) but he thinks (and he is ex Regional Manager for GW) that it's a bit fishy that a limited edition is being forced at him and he speculated it's not shifting as expected.

Mr Morden wrote:Very true normally - however in this game the ships that each Pirate Lord commands are huge and I would think a match for any warship in the warhammer world - the Vampire Counts flagship is likely similar in size to a Black Ark whilst the Empire warship has a 180 guns and a gignatic steam powered hammer. Normal pirate ships seem to be the reletively tiny Escorts that can be seen in some pictures.

Big navies don't use individual warships when they fight. They use big fleets. Admittedly I don't know much about the Warhamer world at all, but a single pirate ship, no matter how formidable it is as a ship, isn't gonna cut it when a major naval power decides that pirate needs to go. For example, that Empire warship with the big hammer was built as one of a class of ships. When its sisters and the rest of the fleet show up, it will not have much of a chance...

schadenfreude wrote:I think GW jumped the shark on this one.

People are pirated out right now, largely due to too many pirates sequels.

2 starter fleets for uncharted seas or dystopian wars + the core rule book will cost less than dread fleet.

There is only 1 ship from each WHFB army in dread fleet. There is no way to build a fleet to match an army.

They are trying to copy space hulk's success, but they are ignoring everything that made space hulk successful. It's not going to be as successful as space hulk.

But it's not meant to be a race vs race expandable Naval Game, is it? That isn't the intention of the game, is it?

Dreadfleet sells out. Space Hulk sells out. At that point, both are precisely as successful as each other?

Mr Mystery wrote:
Dreadfleet sells out. Space Hulk sells out. At that point, both are precisely as successful as each other?

If you believe the production numbers for each game that have been put in this thread, how can you say that?

Besides, I'm having serious doubts that DF will sell out like SH did...

Mr Mystery wrote:But it's not meant to be a race vs race expandable Naval Game, is it? That isn't the intention of the game, is it?

No, it's not. But doing something stupid on purpose is still doing something stupid.

Dreadfleet sells out. Space Hulk sells out. At that point, both are precisely as successful as each other?

Only in a perverse, Harrison Bergeron kind of way. All marathon runners are equal, if you cut them off at the knees.

So a game selliing out of it's single print run is a failure, because another game did the same thing, and you preferred the previous game? Huh?

On the subject of keeping a game available, and indeed expandable, requires resources. GW, whatever you think of it, prefer to concentrate their resources on their three core games (and possibly as we speak a Hobbitt game, seeing as the films are approaching and they have the license for it) with the Design Team being able to pitch ideas for one off games, ala Dreadfleet. So how is this stupid? It makes a profit, which is what any company is after?

CptJake wrote:

Mr Morden wrote:Very true normally - however in this game the ships that each Pirate Lord commands are huge and I would think a match for any warship in the warhammer world - the Vampire Counts flagship is likely similar in size to a Black Ark whilst the Empire warship has a 180 guns and a gignatic steam powered hammer. Normal pirate ships seem to be the reletively tiny Escorts that can be seen in some pictures.

Big navies don't use individual warships when they fight. They use big fleets. Admittedly I don't know much about the Warhamer world at all, but a single pirate ship, no matter how formidable it is as a ship, isn't gonna cut it when a major naval power decides that pirate needs to go. For example, that Empire warship with the big hammer was built as one of a class of ships. When its sisters and the rest of the fleet show up, it will not have much of a chance...

Maybe - I have not yet got the book so just going on the online info but I think the empire ship is a flagship so the equivalent of a top of the line battleship (IIRC its described as having the most guns on any Empire warhsip) so whilst it might end up the same as the hunt for the Bismark if the Empire goes after it in a big way, it is in this case accompanied by an entire fleet of capaital ships who are going after their opposite numbers in a major fleet action. The pirates in the Warhammer world range from similar ones to historical 16-17th century ones (or vikings or event the pirate fleets that plagued the ancient world) through to large fleets of true warships that can ravage entire coastlines and destroy pretty much any enemy they encounter.

Mr Mystery wrote:It makes a profit, which is what any company is after?

Are you familiar with the concept of opportunity cost? Making a small amount of profit is not a good thing if it is an alternative to making a large amount of profit.

A Town Called Malus wrote:So fake Skaven, Vampire Counts, Tomb Kings (are the Tomb Kings anywhere near any large body of water?)

Since the Tomb Kings are the Egyptians, they have both the Nile Delta (Nile is a BIG river up north) not to mention whatever the Old World calls the Mediterranean Sea.

So how is this game selling out going to make it less successful than Space Hulk? Or are you just you know, being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse?

The price per unit will have been set to ensure a healthy return on the investment. Last I was told, 65,000 copies world wide. Now, because it's my local currency, multiplied by the £70.00 per box, once all sold, that will be £4,550,000.00 flowing into GW Coffers.

Yup, epic colossal fail that. Tut tut, what are they thinking of!!! Unless of course you genuinely believe they would price it to deliberately make a loss?

You do realise that when GW wholesales to a store who then sells it again, they don't get the full £70.00? Don't you?




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And that it costs money to produce and distribute, right?

Well indeed, but by flogging to an Indy, they make more money than flogging it through their own stores. After all, once it's flogged to an Indy, it's gone, GW have their money.


Put it in a GW store, and it could sit there gathering dust, still having made nowt for the company.

So your point is?

Floating on the Stock exchange was a turning point for GW. I'm still undecided as to whether it was a good or bad idea, but it is what is... They have to make profits to keep shareholders happy, and keep expanding their range to maintain a stable/ increasing share price. It has complicated matters immensely but the pseudo financial wizards i often see on here make me laugh. If you know so much about finance and business, why are you here on Dakka (probably sitting in your pants in front of a PC) and not on your multi-million pound yacht off the coast of the Florida keys?

Furthermore the frankly ridiculous arguments about things selling out or not making them more or less successful than the last limited edition game is madness. GW is producing a limit number of products and trying to net a health return. Plus everyone has been crowing about the lack of specialist games, surely this is a good omen? (Que 1,000 replies saying "OMG you are an idiot" etc)

Mr Mystery wrote: Last I was told, 65,000 copies world wide. Now, because it's my local currency, multiplied by the £70.00 per box, once all sold, that will be £4,550,000.00 flowing into GW Coffers.

Who "told" you 65k copies were "sold"? One of GW's accountants, I'm sure, keeping you up to date on all their latest financial movements on a daily basis.

My point is that you're pulling numbers out of your backside, and then making up mathematical equations using those same numbers. Then you're claiming that wholesaling a product makes a company more money than direct sales. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about. My advice: stop now before you make yourself look more cleverer.

It'll probably make them money, but your argument is made of /facepalm.

And they're only ever going to make £4,550,000.00, sadly. Unless they "accidentally" stumble upon a few more pallets in the back of the warehouse around Christmas time, of course.

I'll laugh my ass off if they don't do another run, I mean seriously? "Oh wow that game nearly sold out the week it was announced, it's already stupid popular and no one even knows how the game mechanics work! LET'S NEVER PRINT ANOTHER COPY EVER AGAIN."

btw, mwnciboo is an idiot.