Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

999 more to go ..

Fronting the money for a new print run takes resources.

Pushing in a print run of this game now would disrupt whatever was planned to be run on the various machines.

Assuming they use the profit/cash flow from the initial print run to resource scheduled runs of other items (which is probably a safe assumption, and the projected cash flow from this was figured out and production planning based on it) you can't just 'stop the presses' and decide to do an additional run without causing other problems.

It is not like they have people and machines sitting idle with nothing to do.

AlexHolker wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:It makes a profit, which is what any company is after?

Are you familiar with the concept of opportunity cost? Making a small amount of profit is not a good thing if it is an alternative to making a large amount of profit.

I was going to say something like this. Put simply, if Dreadfleet makes less profit than Space Hulk because of the differing size of the respective print runs, then it is by definition not as successful.

CptJake wrote:

Mr Morden wrote:Very true normally - however in this game the ships that each Pirate Lord commands are huge and I would think a match for any warship in the warhammer world - the Vampire Counts flagship is likely similar in size to a Black Ark whilst the Empire warship has a 180 guns and a gignatic steam powered hammer. Normal pirate ships seem to be the reletively tiny Escorts that can be seen in some pictures.

Big navies don't use individual warships when they fight. They use big fleets. Admittedly I don't know much about the Warhamer world at all, but a single pirate ship, no matter how formidable it is as a ship, isn't gonna cut it when a major naval power decides that pirate needs to go. For example, that Empire warship with the big hammer was built as one of a class of ships. When its sisters and the rest of the fleet show up, it will not have much of a chance...

The Dark Elves only really use their full strength when attacking the High Elves homeland Ulthuan. The rest of the time they stick to opportunistic raids to snatch slaves or just for the thrill of the hunt. So they could've have fitted in to this with one of their smaller raiding ships. Anyway, sad not to see them but it still looks ok, though what is up with the Skaven plague-plaice? I thought they'd have an ironcladish ship belching green smoke and bristling with warp-lightning cannons.

AlexHolker wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:It makes a profit, which is what any company is after?

Are you familiar with the concept of opportunity cost? Making a small amount of profit is not a good thing if it is an alternative to making a large amount of profit.

Clearly GW should cut all product lines except Space Marines.

Mr Mystery wrote:
The price per unit will have been set to ensure a healthy return on the investment. Last I was told, 65,000 copies world wide. Now, because it's my local currency, multiplied by the £70.00 per box, once all sold, that will be £4,550,000.00 flowing into GW Coffers.

Yup, epic colossal fail that. Tut tut, what are they thinking of!!! Unless of course you genuinely believe they would price it to deliberately make a loss?

Well, except they sell to distributors at 55 percent mark down (last I know that is their allowable markup)

Then of course they have manufacturing costs
And advertising costs
And labor costs of development


Lastly and the real crux of the issue, is opportunity cost(s). Is a one off game with limited production worth the investment of time (you never get back), money , etc v. spending time/money developing say...a detailed small scale 40k skirmish intro set that helps establish new players? I don't know and I'm not privy to their internal information--but I think it's a valid question raised by others.

Keep in mind that there were less Dreadfleet boxes (60k) produced than for Space Hulk (80-100k), that the boxes sold to stores have still to find a buyer, and that Dreadfleet is not yet sold out (Space Hulk was sold out after 3 days).

Kroothawk wrote:Space Hulk was sold out after 3 days

Apart from that pallette they found at the back of the warehouse (because giving the impression that you had absent mindedly lost a few thousand pounds worth of stock is such a great marketing strategy for your business).

scipio.au wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote: Last I was told, 65,000 copies world wide. Now, because it's my local currency, multiplied by the £70.00 per box, once all sold, that will be £4,550,000.00 flowing into GW Coffers.

Who "told" you 65k copies were "sold"? One of GW's accountants, I'm sure, keeping you up to date on all their latest financial movements on a daily basis.

My point is that you're pulling numbers out of your backside, and then making up mathematical equations using those same numbers. Then you're claiming that wholesaling a product makes a company more money than direct sales. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about. My advice: stop now before you make yourself look more cleverer.

It'll probably make them money, but your argument is made of /facepalm.

Howdy doody dee! Here's a hint on how to get ahead in life! READ WHAT IS WRITTEN.

I've been told 65,000 copies world wide. I dunno if that's accurate, it's what I've been told. Now, kindly point out where I said 65,000 copies have been sold?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Flashman wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:It makes a profit, which is what any company is after?

Are you familiar with the concept of opportunity cost? Making a small amount of profit is not a good thing if it is an alternative to making a large amount of profit.

I was going to say something like this. Put simply, if Dreadfleet makes less profit than Space Hulk because of the differing size of the respective print runs, then it is by definition not as successful.

If it is a different amount? We can only go one what we've been told, as I don't believe anyone is actually privy to the amount produced for either game, nor indeed the cost to do so.

But hey, whatever lets you mindlessly whine is good with me.

CptJake wrote:

Mr Morden wrote:Very true normally - however in this game the ships that each Pirate Lord commands are huge and I would think a match for any warship in the warhammer world - the Vampire Counts flagship is likely similar in size to a Black Ark whilst the Empire warship has a 180 guns and a gignatic steam powered hammer. Normal pirate ships seem to be the reletively tiny Escorts that can be seen in some pictures.

Big navies don't use individual warships when they fight. They use big fleets. Admittedly I don't know much about the Warhamer world at all, but a single pirate ship, no matter how formidable it is as a ship, isn't gonna cut it when a major naval power decides that pirate needs to go. For example, that Empire warship with the big hammer was built as one of a class of ships. When its sisters and the rest of the fleet show up, it will not have much of a chance...

This game would have been balls out if it coincided with a Lustria Campaign. Other then that this is Man O War with prettier, more expensive shinys.

Looks meh. Only reason it gets any hype is because it is the only thing "New" old that they resurrected in quite some time. GW at its predictable meh.

In GW, everything is fine.....

Self portrait Grot?

That would explain allot.

lord_blackfang wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:It makes a profit, which is what any company is after?

Are you familiar with the concept of opportunity cost? Making a small amount of profit is not a good thing if it is an alternative to making a large amount of profit.

Clearly GW should cut all product lines except Space Marines.

Exactly, because suggesting that GW keep another popular product in stock is precisely like saying GW should stop making anything except one product.

Mr Mystery wrote:If it is a different amount? We can only go one what we've been told, as I don't believe anyone is actually privy to the amount produced for either game, nor indeed the cost to do so.

But hey, whatever lets you mindlessly whine is good with me.

Uh huh. You are a charming fellow of late, Mr Mystery.

Mr Mystery wrote: Last I was told, 65,000 copies world wide. Now, because it's my local currency, multiplied by the £70.00 per box, once all sold, that will be £4,550,000.00 flowing into GW Coffers.

How do you figure since a lot of those units will be sold to indy retailers which they will only get the wholesale price on. I'm just wondering what magical pricing model you're using to come up with those figures.

Along with R&D, COGS, and SG&A and all those other pesky things that fall into determining how much falls into the coffers...

Looks very cool.

GW sent my shipping notice the 26th, but didn't send a tracking number until yesterday (the 29th) and that tracking says I need to wait until next Tuesday, the 4th to get my copy!

Darn you GW and UPS!!!!

Jake

Well it's release day, post has been and I've not my Dreadfleet.

Well done GW! I knew you wouldn't manage it.

Arr but I told ee
They be sent by means appropriate to the game which means a VERY perilous voyage for your package

Check your tracking it could be that it is currently negotiating sea serpents about now.

obsidianaura wrote:Well it's release day, post has been and I've not my Dreadfleet.

Well done GW! I knew you wouldn't manage it.

That's because it gets sent out on the day of release. So expect it next week.

Me, I'm meant to be picking mine up from the Store, which means they should be there. I've had no confirmation of shipping. Thankfully, Mr Manager is happy to give me my two from stock, and then chuck my two on the shelf when they come in.

obsidianaura wrote:Well it's release day, post has been and I've not my Dreadfleet.

Well done GW! I knew you wouldn't manage it.

You should probably read the Release Date Info on the GW site then as it doesn't promise anything of the sort:

GW Site wrote:This Product launches on the 1st October.

Hobby Centre Delivery
Place your order by Sunday 25th September, choose to have it delivered to your local Games Workshop Hobby Centre and we guarantee that it will be there for pick up on launch day.

All Other Deliveries
Choose to have your order delivered to an address of your choice and place it by Wednesday 28th September and we will ship it out on Friday 30th September.
Orders placed after the 28th September will ship out first thing on Monday 3rd October.

So the earliest anyone should get it is tomorrow.

My flgs had his stock of them on Wednesday, he's been told not to sell any until tomorrow though...

Mick

Not had a shipping email yet nor have they taken the money from the Mrs' credit card, my plan for post England game un-boxing seems to have been scuppered.

Arrrgh, shiver me timbers. We be becalmed and a adrift. Truly Jebus has forsaken us mates....Arrrgh!

My tracking number still lists it as being in limbo for the time being, it won't be shipped until tomorrow.

Mine load of boxes just arrived. We got in 50 between the two stores. Unboxing and playing with mine tonite.

Literally got my dispatch and tracking emails two minutes ago.

We could be on for a world cup rugger pirate bonanza shipmates!

Run up the cabinboy, haul out the purser, and a jolly Roger alround! We be heading for the highseas mates!

About 90 minutes of work, no glue yet. Very little mold lines, almost seamless joins. Will give it a good play through tomorrow.

nice.

Kroothawk wrote:Keep in mind that there were less Dreadfleet boxes (60k) produced than for Space Hulk (80-100k), that the boxes sold to stores have still to find a buyer, and that Dreadfleet is not yet sold out (Space Hulk was sold out after 3 days).

But eventually it will sell out and looks good on the bottom line. If this game was in aligned with WHFB I would have bought this in a heart beat. But this is a one shot, closed environment product. GW's Standard product model for short term quick cash infusion into the company. I'm not objecting to this line of thought as they will be making a profitable product, but they could have made a great deal more of a profit. The company is just playing it safe as they used the math hammer to figure out how many units to produce.

I wonder how many people play GW games world wide now? Does anyone have any current estimates?

Kroothawk wrote:Keep in mind that there were less Dreadfleet boxes (60k) produced than for Space Hulk (80-100k), that the boxes sold to stores have still to find a buyer, and that Dreadfleet is not yet sold out (Space Hulk was sold out after 3 days).

A couple of things.

Space Hulk was most certainly not sold out after three days (worldwide). There were still copies on shelves (and some warehouses) in various markets at least fortnight later.

There have been 65,000 copies of Dreadfleet produced (not sold) in total.

bolo wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Keep in mind that there were less Dreadfleet boxes (60k) produced than for Space Hulk (80-100k), that the boxes sold to stores have still to find a buyer, and that Dreadfleet is not yet sold out (Space Hulk was sold out after 3 days).

A couple of things.

Space Hulk was most certainly not sold out after three days (worldwide). There were still copies on shelves (and some warehouses) in various markets at least fortnight later.

There have been 65,000 copies of Dreadfleet produced (not sold) in total.

Define 'shelves and various markets'. If you meant GW shelves and various GW stores, then yes, 'sold out' doesn't work, but if you meant discount stores and the likes, then they have been 'sold' to the store by GW.