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S6 pie plates will out right cut swaths through them.

I am almost tempted to run a Hellhound or two for this.
Incidentally they are also good at killing Warriors.

S6......Maybe some Multilasers on Chirmera's will counter them nicely?

As others have pointed out - scarabs are a high-damage, low-resilience unit.

They mostly pose threats to parking lots, and combat-speed vehicles. They are relatively harmless (sometimes a tarpit though) to infantry and cruising-speed or faster vehicles. They are vulnerable to blasts/templates, and s6 kills them outright, and they only have a 5+ armor save so if they are in the open bolter fire will cut them to shreds as well.

A unit of 10 scarabs costs 150 points, therefore for that many to make their investment costs back they have to kill 2 razorbacks, or 4 rhinos, or half a land raider. Realistically, unless they are ignored completely (or other threats take precedence over them) they will maybe only kill 2 or 3 tanks tops before they're stomped out.

If they eat enough fire, they can make their points back by virtue of whatever else you didn't shoot.

If that land raider redeemer flames the scarabs instead of my lych guard I'll call that a win for me.

Run 2 squads of 7
Run a squad of 3 spyders wound allocated

T1 boost one unit to max, T2 start buffing whichever unit got softened up. If you have imotekh, your opponent won't be able to get too much firepower into them.

Profit!

Spyders and Scarabs are the sickness

Interesting discussion here.

I haven't picked up the codex yet (I will this weekend), but I have 9x Tomb Spyders and 35 scarabs at home - I had 39 (for my Spyder Wing) but since I liked the wraith wing better, I never got around to finishing it and converted 4 of those scarabs into razorwing flocks for my Dark Eldar.

Perhaps my Spyder Wing will actually get to come out and play at last!

9x Spyders, 2x 10 scarabs, and 6 Wraiths with a Destroyer Lord. Imotek to keep you safe(r) from shooting.

Poop out scarabs for 2 turns, then throw 38 bases at your opponent, followed by wraiths/spyders to kill the units that fall out. Your opponent has to deal with them, letting you take objectives with impunity.

Its win-win.

Jabbdo wrote:9x Spyders, 2x 10 scarabs, and 6 Wraiths with a Destroyer Lord. Imotek to keep you safe(r) from shooting.

Poop out scarabs for 2 turns, then throw 38 bases at your opponent, followed by wraiths/spyders to kill the units that fall out. Your opponent has to deal with them, letting you take objectives with impunity.

Its win-win.

1525pts worth. 41pts per model. I can see those kind of tactics being effective but you loose out on troops! You need those!

It is well worth it to remember that the Swarms USR also gives the scarabs stealth.

3+ cover save (from terrain or from walking behind other models, e.g. Spyders) combined with their long assault range makes them a lot more resilient to shooting than you would initially think.

If you in addition to this have either Imotekh or a Solar Pulse to gain night fighting, their resilience suddenly improves quite a lot.

Razerous wrote:

Jabbdo wrote:9x Spyders, 2x 10 scarabs, and 6 Wraiths with a Destroyer Lord. Imotek to keep you safe(r) from shooting.

Poop out scarabs for 2 turns, then throw 38 bases at your opponent, followed by wraiths/spyders to kill the units that fall out. Your opponent has to deal with them, letting you take objectives with impunity.

Its win-win.

1525pts worth. 41pts per model. I can see those kind of tactics being effective but you loose out on troops! You need those!

This is the list I was thinking of running:

Imotek 225

Destoyer Lord, 2+ save 140

1 Cryptek, Eldrich lance, Solar pulse 55


16 Warriors 208

5 Immortals, Tesla 85

5 Immortals, Tesla 85


6 Wraiths, 1 Particle caster, 1 Whip coil 225

10 Scarabs 150

10 Scarabs 150


3 Spyders, 1 Fabricator Claw, 1 Doom prism 175

3 Spyders, 1 Fabricator Claw, 1 Doom prism 175

3 Spyders, 1 Fabricator Claw, 1 Doom prism 175


= 1848

With so many other threats on the board your troops should be safe enough, especially under cover of nightfight.

If only the spyders were part of the first wave.. I seriously want to make a 9 spyder list.

S6/T6 MC for 50 pts? They're making all the carnifexs become alcoholics as they cry at how sad their life is

"Making your points back" isn't a good way to judge.. well anything. It's not about points, its about facilitating a winning strategy. If spyders only kill 3 rhinos do they make their points back? No.. but they allowed you to destroy the 3 units IN those transports while also reducing those units mobility and possibility distracting them

Yes they are only S3, but a unit of 10 has 50 attacks on the charge which could really be annoying. The Necron book requires combos and scarabs are pretty good for that

Kirasu wrote:
"Making your points back" isn't a good way to judge.. well anything. It's not about points, its about facilitating a winning strategy. If spyders only kill 3 rhinos do they make their points back? No.. but they allowed you to destroy the 3 units IN those transports while also reducing those units mobility and possibility distracting them

Well said.

The basic idea is of that list is to just throw your Scarabs, Spyders (who produce more scarabs) Wraiths and Lord at you opponent and say "hey, deal with that." Their job is to demech your opponent and present threats that your opponent has to deal with. Even if they all die (and most of them probably will) it doesn't matter as long as they managed to keep your opponent occupied long enough for you to take objectives and win. KP's games should be easy already given how few KP's that list gives up and how easily it can collect them from transports/MSU squads anyways.

Scarabs are sounding pretty nasty. I might need to start thinking about putting Blacksun Filters on Battlesuits and Hammerheads for double vision range and take out the Spiders turn one with the Broadsides then hit the Scarabs with the large blast from the hammerhead.

A previously mostly unused upgrade has suddenly become a lot more useful.

Here's some interesting tidbit. Don't mind the points cost. Just want to see how much damage paladins can do.

10 paladins (w/banner, mix of swords/halberds) vs 50 scarabs.

Assume:

No shooting.

Scarabs get the charge off.

Draigo used Grand Strategy to give his guys counter-attack and they pass their counter-attack.


Paladins: 36 force weapon attacks and 3 regular attack. They strike first.

36 attacks x 2/3 hit x 2/3 wound = 16 insta-kills

3 attacks x 2/3 x 2/3 x2/3 penetrate 5+ save = .89 = 1W


Scarabs strike back. There are now only 34 of them. That's 170 attacks on the charge, hitting and wound on 5's (WS5, T4).

170 attacks x 1/3 hit x 1/3 wound x 1/6 penetrate 2+ save = 3.14W = 3W

Let's say 2W are on swords and 1W on a halberd


So paladins win by (16 x 3) +1 -3 = 46W. Scarabs then loses another 46 x 2/3 = 30.67 = 31 wounds to No Retreat. That means they lose another 10 bases. Now there are 24 scarabs left with 1 base down to 1W left.


---------------------------------------------------------------


Now on the paladin's turn, the fight continues (spyders can't make more babies yet).

Paladins now have "only" 27 force weapon attacks and 2 normal attacks. They cast Hammerhand again.

27 attacks x 2/3 hit x 2/3 wound = 12 insta-kills

2 attacks x 2/3 x 2/3 x2/3 penetrate 5+ save = .59 = 1W


Only 12 swarms left.

48 attacks x 1/3 hit x 1/3 wound = 5.33W

Paladins allocate those wounds on 2+ paladins.

5.33 x 1/6 penetrate 2+ = .89 = 1W (let's say on halberd this time)


So now we do combat res. Paladins win by (12x3) +1 -1 = 36W. 36 x 2/3 = 24. Scarabs lose another 24W to No Retreat. That's another 8 bases gone. Only 4 scarab bases remain.


---------------------------------------------------------------


Next turn, assume spyders finally make it in range and make 9 more scarab bases. Now there's 4 + 9 = 13 scarab bases. Paladin wipes them all out this turn.


---------------------------------------------------------------


On the paladin's turn, since the spyders were close enough to spawn scarab bases. Paladins shoot and then multi-assault all 9 of them....



Morale of the Story: Necrons need to find better a better way to deal with paladins. Scarabs just don't cut it.

Why don't any Paladins have hammers. That is unusual.

Joe Mama wrote:Why don't any Paladins have hammers. That is unusual.

I usually run 1 hammer in my paladin unit but that won't change the stats at all. Hammer will still get his attacks, but wounding on 2's instead of 3's. I just left it out to simplifly the calculations.

Won't more scarabs attack since the hammer goes after them? I mean they will still do poorly against the paladins, but it would change the numbers a bit.

Joe Mama wrote:Won't more scarabs attack since the hammer goes after them? I mean they will still do poorly against the paladins, but it would change the numbers a bit.

4 halberd attacks x 2/3 x 2/3 = 1.77 = 2 bases.

So 2 more bases would get to attack before the hammer.

10x x 1/3 hit x 1/3 wound x 1/6 penetrate 2+ save = .19 (rounded down) = 0W.

2 bases wouldn't even cause 1W to the paladins. Then the hammer attacks:

4 attacks x 2/3 x 5/6 = 3.33 bases = 3 scarabs bases dead.


You're right. It would change the math a little. The hammer would've killed 1 more base extra.

Heimer wrote:It is well worth it to remember that the Swarms USR also gives the scarabs stealth.

3+ cover save (from terrain or from walking behind other models, e.g. Spyders) combined with their long assault range makes them a lot more resilient to shooting than you would initially think.

If you in addition to this have either Imotekh or a Solar Pulse to gain night fighting, their resilience suddenly improves quite a lot.

Making the Hellhound sound better and better....
lot's of Chimera ML could help.
Might also give the Valkyrie a reason to see more use. it can move 12" and fire everything.
Granted that's at best 3 ML shots(Str 6), 2 Pie plates(Str 4) and 6 HBolter shots(Str 5). won't
Insta-kill much, but it will force a lot of Saves to be rolled potentially!

alarmingrick wrote:

Heimer wrote:It is well worth it to remember that the Swarms USR also gives the scarabs stealth.

3+ cover save (from terrain or from walking behind other models, e.g. Spyders) combined with their long assault range makes them a lot more resilient to shooting than you would initially think.

If you in addition to this have either Imotekh or a Solar Pulse to gain night fighting, their resilience suddenly improves quite a lot.

Making the Hellhound sound better and better....
lot's of Chimera ML could help.
Might also give the Valkyrie a reason to see more use. it can move 12" and fire everything.
Granted that's at best 3 ML shots(Str 6), 2 Pie plates(Str 4) and 6 HBolter shots(Str 5). won't
Insta-kill much, but it will force a lot of Saves to be rolled potentially!

Yea, hellhounds might finally see some use.
2 Hellhounds and 2 Vendettas sounds like a reasonable compromise.
I dont like counting on BS3 Multi-lasers.

It's pretty clear to me that Scarabs are going to be a feast-or-famine unit.

If your opponent came equipped to deal with them, too bad for you, and you wasted some points.

If your opponent isn't prepared to deal with them, he can kiss his armor goodbye.

We do have a lot of ways to mitigate blasts fething around with us (3+ cover saves, the fact that even a S6 flamer only kills one base per wound, the fact that any other <S6 blasts still have to do 2 wounds per base, etc), but all it takes is one poor move on our part to lose 150 points.

It sucks, because the one list I'd want to have extra AA against is IG mech, which will take nothing but MLs anyway.>


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jy2 wrote:Here's some interesting tidbit. Don't mind the points cost. Just want to see how much damage paladins can do.

10 paladins (w/banner, mix of swords/halberds) vs 50 scarabs.

Assume:

No shooting.

Scarabs get the charge off.

Draigo used Grand Strategy to give his guys counter-attack and they pass their counter-attack.


Paladins: 36 force weapon attacks and 3 regular attack. They strike first.

36 attacks x 2/3 hit x 2/3 wound = 16 insta-kills

3 attacks x 2/3 x 2/3 x2/3 penetrate 5+ save = .89 = 1W


Scarabs strike back. There are now only 34 of them. That's 170 attacks on the charge, hitting and wound on 5's (WS5, T4).

170 attacks x 1/3 hit x 1/3 wound x 1/6 penetrate 2+ save = 3.14W = 3W

Let's say 2W are on swords and 1W on a halberd


So paladins win by (16 x 3) +1 -3 = 46W. Scarabs then loses another 46 x 2/3 = 30.67 = 31 wounds to No Retreat. That means they lose another 10 bases. Now there are 24 scarabs left with 1 base down to 1W left.


---------------------------------------------------------------


Now on the paladin's turn, the fight continues (spyders can't make more babies yet).

Paladins now have "only" 27 force weapon attacks and 2 normal attacks. They cast Hammerhand again.

27 attacks x 2/3 hit x 2/3 wound = 12 insta-kills

2 attacks x 2/3 x 2/3 x2/3 penetrate 5+ save = .59 = 1W


Only 12 swarms left.

48 attacks x 1/3 hit x 1/3 wound = 5.33W

Paladins allocate those wounds on 2+ paladins.

5.33 x 1/6 penetrate 2+ = .89 = 1W (let's say on halberd this time)


So now we do combat res. Paladins win by (12x3) +1 -1 = 36W. 36 x 2/3 = 24. Scarabs lose another 24W to No Retreat. That's another 8 bases gone. Only 4 scarab bases remain.


---------------------------------------------------------------


Next turn, assume spyders finally make it in range and make 9 more scarab bases. Now there's 4 + 9 = 13 scarab bases. Paladin wipes them all out this turn.


---------------------------------------------------------------


On the paladin's turn, since the spyders were close enough to spawn scarab bases. Paladins shoot and then multi-assault all 9 of them....



Morale of the Story: Necrons need to find better a better way to deal with paladins. Scarabs just don't cut it.

The moral of the story is that scarabs are meant for Anti-vehicle and tarpitting units not designed for CC.

Ostrakon wrote:It's pretty clear to me that Scarabs are going to be a feast-or-famine unit.

If your opponent came equipped to deal with them, too bad for you, and you wasted some points.

If your opponent isn't prepared to deal with them, he can kiss his armor goodbye.

We do have a lot of ways to mitigate blasts fething around with us (3+ cover saves, the fact that even a S6 flamer only kills one base per wound, the fact that any other <S6 blasts still have to do 2 wounds per base, etc), but all it takes is one poor move on our part to lose 150 points.

It sucks, because the one list I'd want to have extra AA against is IG mech, which will take nothing but MLs anyway.>

Bear in mind that to kill 30+ Scarabs, you gotta REALLY come equipped for it. 12 Multilasers on chimera's don't count. They'll kill 5 bases. Not a substantial loss, really, those 25 bases can still eat his armor.

Dashofpepper wrote:Interesting discussion here.

I haven't picked up the codex yet (I will this weekend), but I have 9x Tomb Spyders and 35 scarabs at home - I had 39 (for my Spyder Wing) but since I liked the wraith wing better, I never got around to finishing it and converted 4 of those scarabs into razorwing flocks for my Dark Eldar.

Perhaps my Spyder Wing will actually get to come out and play at last!

You better come right back here when you read it, I'm probably not the only one really anxious to see what you do with the new codex.

Scarabs are freakin Awesome. I have 45 bases and still adding from my bits boxes lol.
[youtube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBKtX84Sf6M

My army is still growing ^_^ over 250 complete warriors (i still have 80 that are unassembled)

God help when i pull out my chaos army and set it up, i think that i might not have enough room on the floor for all of them.

NOOOOOOO. Like the Necrons this thread has arisen from the dead!

Other than the Flyerwing, Scarabs and Spyders combo is one of the Necrons deadliest tactics.

Every one loves a threadromancer

 yournamehere wrote:
Every one loves a threadromancer

Whats a threadromancer.

Threadnomancy is digging up old threads. This one is from January, and many of those who participated in it have likely moved on, so if you're looking to discuss Necron tactics it would be better to do it in a more recent or new thread.