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Looks like a great kit.

Cheers, guys!

Work on the Bloodthirster continues, but the model is still in its building stage.

I have settled on the axe/whip combo now, and here's what the model currently looks like:





I've glued the model to the fantasy base for now, so I can have it upright. A couple of observations:

- as you can see, this guy is fairly massive, even without his wings. I really like that!

- after much deliberation, I chose the asymmetrical axe head: While the other axe is beautifully designed, it just looks slightly wrong to me, held at that particular angle -- more like the 'Thirster is presenting it to the audience. The asymmetrical version doesn't have that problem, at least not to the same degree, and looks like he is actually preparing for a swing, so it was definitely the way to go for me.

- you wouldn't believe how much messing around it took to sort out that whip arm -- the instructions are slightly ambiguous, with pictures that aren't all that helpful, so getting the whip into a position where it both cleared the floor and didn't interfere with the head did take some doing. As you can see, I also left off that clunky chaos star, shaving down the whip so it tapers down into a pointy end instead -- this seems more natural and plausible to me, plus I get to keep that burning chaos star for something else

Oh, and here's another comparison picture for you: The Bloodthirster next to a (fairly standard) plastic Daemon Prince:



As you can see, the 'Thirster is quite a bit taller and more muscular. Regarding the DP, I made one more addition to him: Some Khorne runes were shaved off the vambrace of a leftover Bloodthirster arm and attached to his hip plates. See if you can spot them

As always, let me know what you think!

I'm asking this from a design point of view as opposed to what you have personally done to the model, but does it feel like the model is a little top heavy? Especially if you add the wings? It just seems like alot of model for such a tiny contact point on the base.

As far as what you've done, I agree that the whip looks better with a "regular" end as oppossed to the chaos star bit. I also really like how you have used the bits to make the original demon prince more Khornate.

Hmm...I like the weapon combo a lot. Very classical. But something about the axe is making my brain itch. I thibk it's that he's holding it really low, making it seem kinda unbalanced. Is there any way you could move his grip up on the axe, closer to the fulcrum or blade of the weapon? Or would that necessitate rebuilding the entire haft?

Naa... the grip towards the lower end of the handle is correct, if the axe is to be swung. The problem is (as with most GW figs raising their "choppas") the hand has to be tilted so that the axe points more backwards. In order to handle a battle axe one-handed (top heavy in comparison to a -balanced- sword), you have to swing it in wide arches, taking advantage of the momentum. You jerk it up with a fast pull, as soon you reach the top point of the swing you turn the wrist and pull forward/down, the axe head will follow the trail automatically. You let then swing, controlling only direction. If you miss your aim, you use the momentum to raise the axe again with a minimum of required force. But chances are high you don't get a second chance, because mass inertia makes a battle axe quite slow in comparison. So you better hit first time and take advantage of that concentrated mass!
I see more problems with the whip - in this position, he cannot use it, only get the axe entangled in it, or trip over it by himself. To use a whip, you must even more gain momentum by swinging it, because it is flexible. Yes you CAN get this momentum by pulling the whip over your head, but not with a raised axe. In this combo, he has to keep the slash on his right or very precisely keep the axe down while swinging from the left.

 Hruotland wrote:
Naa... the grip towards the lower end of the handle is correct, if the axe is to be swung. The problem is (as with most GW figs raising their "choppas") the hand has to be tilted so that the axe points more backwards. In order to handle a battle axe one-handed (top heavy in comparison to a -balanced- sword), you have to swing it in wide arches, taking advantage of the momentum. You jerk it up with a fast pull, as soon you reach the top point of the swing you turn the wrist and pull forward/down, the axe head will follow the trail automatically.

Huh. I always knew an Axe needed a bit lower of a grip, but I didn't realize it was THAT low. I guess I just read the Thirster's post less as " Swinging the axe" and more that he was raising it while charging, so a higher grip would be a bit more natural.

Kraut, could you try rotating the wrist backwards so his pose is more like 30k Khârn, with the axe more parallel to the ground?

The thing with axes and hammers is that you want to get the most leverage out of them as possible- and for that, you want the most handle between your hand and the hitty-bit as possible, therefore holding it as low as you can. In many ways, having a pommel on an axe therefore is, well, bad design- it's better to have the bottom of the handle end smoothly, maybe with a little bend to it to help it not slip out of their hands.

Swords, on the other hand, benefit from having that heavy pommel to balance them more- a sword is a more versatile weapon, which you should be able to stab and slash with whenever- while an axe or hammer should be kept in constant swinging motion.

tl;dr- Swords are light and balanced, to stop and start and precisely manipulate the tip into good positions, so the closer the hand to the center of mass, the better (pommels are heavy). Axes are heavy at the head and are swung- momentum is their friend, so you want your hand as far from the blade as possible.

I'v actually swung a battle-axe, and if I remember correctly, the axe should be high if you want to swing it quickly, and be able to come around and do something with the axe or a gun or something.

@Anvildude: this exactly.

hitty-bit

@iliu: yep, start with the axe high. Best base position is having the axe resting on your shoulder, in order to swing it, you only need to punch your fist skywards and then punch forward and down, and hey presto! the axe follows all by itself. To lift it from the ground or so costs much too much time. The technique for chopping wood with a big axe is essentially the same concerning the part about bringing it down. The bloodthirster is in mid-swing, I assume.

Well, what do you know: I don't drop in here for a day or two, and a massive discussion about the handling of axes starts up -- but seriously, guys: Thanks for sharing! This was really interesting, and seeing how I wasn't sure about the 'Thirster's grip on the axe myself, it's good to see GW got the realism right on this guy -- as if a huge, winged daemon the size of a house needed any realism, but oh well...

As for the position of the wrist, I am actually kinda happy with the way it looks now, plus the model doesn't really offer that much leeway when it comes to reposing in the first place. Turning the wrist would probably be possible, but I already glued the hands to the arms -- sorry

In other news, I've picked up my box of Skullreapers/Wrathmongers, and my first impression is that these are probably a perfect set of conversion stuff for 40k Khorne -- the models are scaled to fit almost perfectly with the DV Chosen, and there are so many awesome bitz in the kit. Some of the weapons are very much OTT, but on the other hand, the heads and faces are far better than they seemed in GW's promotional images.

Take a look at this scale comparison between a (slightly modified) Chosen model and a Wrathmonger:



While the Wrathmonger may be slightly taller, the scale is still pretty similar -- so similar, in fact, that parts from the Chosen will fit the Wrathmonger/Skullreaper models without a hitch. It's also important to stress that the guy on the right doesn't even qualify as an early WIP -- I just tacked together some bitz, in order to show you the scale.

I also found it interesting that some of the - almost comically brutish - Skullreaper heads work much better when used on "regular" CSM models. Take a look:



Much better, don't you think? I've merely shaved off those stupid "cheek horns".

Oh, and one thing that really excites me is that you basically get twice as many torso pieces as you need: One set for the Skullreapers and one for the Wrathmongers. And each of those pieces has its own breastplate, which can be used as intended or cut apart to use on your other WoC/CSM models -- all in all, this kit provides an enormous pile of leftover bitz for conversions, which makes it a pretty good purchase, if you are not totally disgusted by the look of these guys.

Anyway, so much for now

that head looks great might be looking for that on bits sites soon hahaha

Looking swell.
Like most people i were uninpressed by those new khorne guys, but saw potential for bitz. Especially in 40k/30k and specially especially those heads. I think they would look great on some world eater legionares.

Would you say that the heads are similar in size to the more modern, slightly smaller heads, like sternguard or forgeworld marines? Or bigger, like the old berserker heads?

Thanks a lot for those pics, they're very helpful
I have one question though...Are the torsos useable unarmored??

 KrautScientist wrote:

This is a fantastic kitbash, I have now dug all of the required buts out to make my own version. I never really had any plans to make the actual chaplain anyway.

Cheers for the feedback, guys!

@ Zywus: The bare heads are not as bulky and massive as the old heads, but closer to some of the more recent GW/FW heads in scale. The helmeted heads are pretty bulky, mostly due to the bunny ears, but very finely detailed and far less clunky than the GW plastic berzerker heads.

@ Legio Ultra: The torsos have pretty big holes, both in the back and in the front. So they'll only be useable without the armour plates with a fair bit of GS work (although you get enough chest armour for all the torso pieces in the box, if that is any consolation).

Hope this helps!

ooohhh I was hoping to see what you would do with these kits the moment I saw them. The mix and match looks solid.

Cheers, mate! I hope you'll be happy with today's update, then

So yeah, meanwhile, the experiments with the Skullreaper/Wrathmonger kit continue. In a move of nearly unbelievable generosity, Commissar Molotov recently sent me a huge pile of stuff, including a lot of leftover DV Chosen and Chosen parts, so I have all the material I need to experiment with those two resources in earnest.

Let's start with something boring: A fairly stock Skullreaper with a tacked on Chosen arm:



Everything's just tacked together for now, in order to show you how well those Chosen arms work with the models.

And here's something more involved: A mix of Wrathmonger/Skullreaper and DV parts:





Once again, all the parts have only been tacked together with modeling putty for now, but there's something suitably gladiatorial and feral about this guy that I like. I also think the model serves as proof that those leftover Wrathmonger chests can really be put to good use!

One important thing, though: The stock Wrathmongers/Skullreapers are a bit taller than the FV Chosen:



So the best approach would probably be to save the Wrathmongers/Skullreapers for unit champs, Chaos Lords etc.

On a semi-related note, this very cool gentleman was also a part of Molotov's bitz drop: Malthus Dire, champion of Khorne:



Such a deceptively simple, yet awesome conversion! I'll make sure to paint him up to the best of my abilities, in Mol's honour!

Oh, and there's one more thing: In case you were wondering, here's what I did with that chaos star from the Bloodthirster's whip:



As you can see, it makes for a teriffic Crozius Maul for my Word Bearers Dark Apostle, Belzas Azalon. I also touched up the right shoulder pad, while I was at it

As always, let me know what you think!

Those Wrathmongers/Skullreapers conversions are looking excellent, I wasn't sure they would fit 40K, but I'm happy to say you've proved me wrong.

Wow! I pretty much am just mesmerized.

oooohhh I quite like the guy with the DV legs, that works well. I have like... 6 sets of DV Chosen laying around earmarked to be berzerkerified. Hmm must purchase new plastic bits!

When I first saw the new Khorne kits, pretty much my first thought was that you were going to do some great things with them in this log. Glad to see you proving that thought right!

I love seeing your mockups and blu-tacked experiments. Thanks for sharing the fun with us.

Liking that Kharn conversion! Really great work!

Cheers for the positive feedback, people! As it happens, I have yet another update for you: In a spontaneous moment of inspiration, I used yet another of the DV Chosen sent to me by Commissar Molotov as a base for a counts as Huron Blackheart conversion:









As you can see, most of stock Huron's characteristic elements are there -- I even got a bit of a kick out of having the model in a pose similar to that of the stock model, albeit more dynamic. The model will still need a bit more work, especially when it comes to the backpack and to making the character look more like his own man than a Huron stand-in. One thing I really like is how carefully shaving off the original head allowed me to keep some of the cabling from the stock head and make it look like they are feeding into the bionic side of the head:



In the interest of full disclosure, the conversion takes quite a few cues from the work of my fellow Brother-Slaugtherers DexterKong (the general idea and some of the "ingredients") and Biohazard (the axe conversion).

As always, let me know what you think!

Awesome! This is fantastic stuff!

That looks so much better than the current GW one. Are you planning on keeping the flame pistol, or replacing it with something else?

VERY awesome - but the 'heavy flamer' is kind of...I don't know, underwhelming? It also looks kinda tacked-on, and looks like it'd get snapped off the moment he punches something. Replacing the fingers with bladed claws to open the hand up more would be awesome, and you could put the flamer in the palm - OR sculpt flames dancing out from underneath his hand, winding up through the fingers...

Great job with the skullreapers man. I think they're much better than GW's initial pics indicated, and I too was really impressed with the bits that came with the kit. I've got power weapons for days now!

Nice conversions. I like the chosen with the fist/flamer the best.

Dan

Great conversions but that CSM arm with the plasma pistol looks way too small to be used on the SkullWrather.

 Kepora wrote:
VERY awesome - but the 'heavy flamer' is kind of...I don't know, underwhelming? It also looks kinda tacked-on, and looks like it'd get snapped off the moment he punches something. Replacing the fingers with bladed claws to open the hand up more would be awesome, and you could put the flamer in the palm - OR sculpt flames dancing out from underneath his hand, winding up through the fingers...

Maybe have a power fist holding a burning skull to denote the flame attack?

just wondering if those skullreapers and wrathmongers are termie sized because i wanted to convert one of them into a fantasy battle-esque chaos lord. and by those pics of the chosen it doesnt look like i can do it