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sudojoe wrote:Help a noob out sisters!

Other than terrible luck I guess with positioning, had some oblits come in by deep strike and they were almost impossible to budge.

St.celestine and her 8 gal seraphrim squad killed one and a half with all their flamers and bolt pistols then charge in and fail to do anything in assault vs T5 while getting smacked by power fists. This started on turn 2 essentially and continues till turn 5's end. Failure to get away on hit and run each time on a 6 also didn't help I suppose.

Had some GK terminators come in also but the hammer guy died eariler and so all the power weapons just kept bouncing off them while power fists are still punching my face in. Between 2+ armor, T5, and their daemon 5++, oblits were damn hard to kill.

What do you guys usually do to multiple squads of these guys?

pretre wrote:Exorcists and melta. Retributors.

In addition to this, what you experienced is why I keep an eviscerator on my Seraphim Superior. 2-3 chainfist attacks back at the oblits plus the weight of the other ladies' attacks will clear them right up.

ya I tried to hit and run and failed 3 times in a row with 6's each time for the initiative test which is why I may end up with a power axe or evicerator as recommended above. Got tied into combat as I couldn't risk losing my big bastion with coteaz, rets, lascannon and ther expensive monkies in it to the oblt's fire power next turn.

Too many oblits oversaturated my AP2 shooting which incidentially missed and or bounced off their 5++ daemon invul so I ended up charging them.

Yeah, failing hit and run 3 times definitely skewed things in the oblits favor. Being able to bounce back out and shoot/charge again should overwhelm them with weight of dice pretty easily.

What are you running on top of your Bastion with Coteaz?

I've tried a couple of different things and was considering just putting a squad of ladies up there and sticking the henchmen in a chimera. 2 Jokero, 3 plasma guns and some ablative wounds in a chimera seems like it would be able to provide some anti-tank for the first couple turns, then clear an objective (3 plasma guns and 2 heavy flamers from jokero) at the end of the game pretty easily. Unsure if it is worth it though.

 sudojoe wrote:
ya I tried to hit and run and failed 3 times in a row with 6's each time for the initiative test which is why I may end up with a power axe or evicerator as recommended above. Got tied into combat as I couldn't risk losing my big bastion with coteaz, rets, lascannon and ther expensive monkies in it to the oblt's fire power next turn. Too many oblits oversaturated my AP2 shooting which incidentially missed and or bounced off their 5++ daemon invul so I ended up charging them.

Fair enough. Bad luck on your part then. Of the two, I would strongly recommend an Eviscerator over an Axe.

On top it was coteaz, 2 monkies, 2 plasma cannon servators and 3 bolter acolytes for ablative wounds by standing in the front.

rets with 3 heavy bolters and one firing the emplaced heavy bolter. It's one heck of a fire base lol. I guess I used up my luck with coteaz getting perfect timing. All those lascannons and plasma cannons ignoring cover and reroll to hit is just brutal unless they throw too many units deep striking at you all at once just slightly out of the IBEY bubble.

Just glad abbadon wasn't in that pile or I'd be hosed.

The sisters was the allied detatchment which meant I couldn't get an exorcist but I may have to consider swapping some things out and replacing the retributor heavy bolter spam with like some henchmen inside instead. Still trying to find the happy balance between psyflemen dreads + DK vs exorcist + rets.

Interesting - what was your list overall sudo?

Also, keep in mind that sometimes it is just a matter of practice. Even with the best list in the world, you need experience to beat good opponents.

quiestdeus wrote:
Interesting - what was your list overall sudo?

Was running:

coteaz with 2 monkies, 2 plasma cannon servators, 3 bolter henchmen bullet catchers (not as good at objective camping as it's big fire power so I'm kind of limiting myself with scoring units)
5 man strike squad with psycannon to give warp quake to protect the back line (and to sit on objectives)
Bastion with lascannon

St.celestine
8 strong seraphrim squad with power sword and 2 sets of hand flamers

Battle sister squad (10 gals) with multi-melta and meltagun
Storm Raven with MM and LC
DK with incinerator and teleporter
Psyfleman dreadnaught (psybolts and TL AC's)
Retributors with 3 heavy bolters.

Came in at 1500 so couldn't really fit in an evicerator unless I took out some seraphrim I think.

Drop a sera and the power sword.

 Jancoran wrote:
Not consciously. But then...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Humblesteve wrote:
I'm planning a sisters army, and I'm very excited. The way I see it though, I really should get some allies. Looking at what's missing in my sisters, I feel like they would benefit most from a) more long range shooting or b) some rock hard infantry that can take objectives. Any suggestions? I've never taken allies, and the only other army I have is chaos. I hate buying lots of guys, so I'd hope to get this right (nearly) the first time. I'm all ears.

For the record my sisters will include

Celestine
7x Repentia
2x Battle Sisters squads
7x Seraphim
2x Exorcists
3x Penitent Engines

And why the heck are IG the only battle brothers!?

Penitent Engines are an interesting unit. With the rules changes it helped the Penitent Engines be better in a lot of ways. Open topped means you really need to take cover with them. As the only forward armor in the list you just gave me, i am thinking they are going to be expensive paperweights fairly early on that will take pressure off the other units on the approach.

Moving behind the Rhinos could work but blown rhinos serve to slow the Raging machines down so the enemy probably can pop the rhinos without giving the Engines much movement advantage, Then kill the Engines.

Terrain is going to be crucial, but I am unsure as to whether that will save them. AV 11, open topped, rushing forth with nothing scarier approaching? I suppose what you'd be counting on is the enemy firing on the exorcists if the Sisters Rhinos don't block. Trouble is, the exorcists can be dispatched later and typically don't score so the Sisters and Penitent Engines will occupy a lions share of the enemy attention even if they have to throw away a unit to blockade in order to accomplish it.

In the past I have personally used Penitent Engines as singular things. It increases dramatically the number of units the enemy must use to kill them all and usually allowed at least one to wreak havoc before the games end. That would mean losing the Exorcists (and aesthetic shame) but then probably gaining a Quad-Melta Dominion Squad.

In the end, if you REALLY like Penitent Engines, that's what I would do. Split the penitents, skip the Exorcists and gain the Dominion to replace a lot of the anti-tank firepower you lost.

This seems like a good opportunity to ask for help. I'm planning on doing a 100% plastic sisters army using DE wyches, warriors, and scourges. Given that, I would like to use as much of the codex as possible (except for celestines, rets, and doms, which are just retooled sisters). I was planning on running the PEs as a "Kan Wall" for the repentia, but can repentia run alone?

I'm planning on own fluff and symbol (an open book) that will replace the flour de lyse (spelling?).

I'll drop the PEs if they just aren't worth it. I'd like to try the model but they are pretty over priced IMO. I could also be persuaded to take rets, as they're pretty awesome.

 sudojoe wrote:
Help a noob out sisters!

Other than terrible luck I guess with positioning, had some oblits come in by deep strike and they were almost impossible to budge.

St.celestine and her 8 gal seraphrim squad killed one and a half with all their flamers and bolt pistols then charge in and fail to do anything in assault vs T5 while getting smacked by power fists. This started on turn 2 essentially and continues till turn 5's end. Failure to get away on hit and run each time on a 6 also didn't help I suppose.

Had some GK terminators come in also but the hammer guy died eariler and so all the power weapons just kept bouncing off them while power fists are still punching my face in. Between 2+ armor, T5, and their daemon 5++, oblits were damn hard to kill.

What do you guys usually do to multiple squads of these guys?

I'll be honest, Sisters shouldn't be charging terminators with ANYTHING other than St. Celestine alone. Even then, you'd only do it to slow them down (though that is 100% legit as far as reasons go). Terminators are out of the Sisters league as a rule. they can't sweeping advance you which is nice. But really, what's the advantage of taking such excellent anti-personell units and wasting theiur um...talents... on those dudes when theres porobably a troops choice somewhere you could be killing or some Rhinos you could be grenading up?

shutting the Obliterators up so they dont keep shooting is legit thought, but do it with shooting, from a distance. =) Even if they get one more shot off than you'd like, at least your army is still doing ITS thing in the meantime.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Humblesteve wrote:

This seems like a good opportunity to ask for help. I'm planning on doing a 100% plastic sisters army using DE wyches, warriors, and scourges. Given that, I would like to use as much of the codex as possible (except for celestines, rets, and doms, which are just retooled sisters). I was planning on running the PEs as a "Kan Wall" for the repentia, but can repentia run alone?

I'm planning on own fluff and symbol (an open book) that will replace the flour de lyse (spelling?).

I'll drop the PEs if they just aren't worth it. I'd like to try the model but they are pretty over priced IMO. I could also be persuaded to take rets, as they're pretty awesome.

Wow, souhnds like it will be a cool mashup. Guardians do have female body pieces you can trade for too, as a thought.

Anyways, I have offered some advice here:
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2012/09/sisters-of-battle-tactica60.html

Also this:
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2012/11/a-6th-edition-look-at-sisters-of-battle.html

And most reecently here:
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2013/02/sisters-of-battle-on-tourney-scene.html

But my take on Penitent Engines is not 100% positive. But here is something to think about: the army isn't made up of "the best units thrown together". You need a plan. A good plan. And then you need to say "okay, can the army do that? And how?". thats how all my armies are built. There is a way I want to fight, an overall strategy. I just fit the parts to match that strategy instead of obsessing over Redundancy in my units. I eat people who pray to the redundancy Gawds for dinner. Having three awesome units wont save you. Having a plan will.

So in the case of Penitent Engines, I own three and as I metnioned before I have used a "one of everything list" to surprising effect. Just having one in the list and reserving it put the fear of gawd into the combat squading "super units" that like to drop in and assassinate tanks, like the Blood angels do. Other than Terminators, they can take on most of what you can throw at them. Great against Orc Dreadnoughts and I can go on, but If you take just one and PLAN for him to basically keep the enemy honest and away from your more precious units, it can be REALLY effective and do a lot of damage. If you try to use it to cross open groun for three rounds... well... I think you can imagine what will happen right? The unit IS good enough to cause serious consternation for the enemy so they wont let that happen if they have a say.

The big problem is that as a squadron, when they take damage, it spreads. So thats why I recommend if taking them, to take them separately. I DO think you could BOTH take pressure off the rest of your army AND actually get to something worth killing by games end with one if you did this. I think it would be a totally sound strategy. You just really gotta ask yourself what they will DO for you when they arrive and play accordingly. LURE someone to a board edge, then run away and jump them with the Penitent forcing them to shoot it or die next round...or back away. Keepos the flank clean. Just as an example.



.

shutting the Obliterators up so they dont keep shooting is legit thought, but do it with shooting, from a distance. =) Even if they get one more shot off than you'd like, at least your army is still doing ITS thing in the meantime.

I'm not entirely convinced that leaving them alone would have done much good for me. Sure it tied up the saint and seras but the building damage chart makes me think that losing my warlord, icarus lascannon, rets, and some space monkies would have been a worse trade off. I have a deadly fear of multi-meltas at 12' to the bastion.

Do you think it's worth the risk to the bastion?


Incidentially, what do you guys think of the list overall? The dread and exorcist are the same points so I can sorta go either way.

 Jancoran wrote:

The big problem is that as a squadron, when they take damage, it spreads. So thats why I recommend if taking them, to take them separately. I DO think you could BOTH take pressure off the rest of your army AND actually get to something worth killing by games end with one if you did this. I think it would be a totally sound strategy. You just really gotta ask yourself what they will DO for you when they arrive and play accordingly. LURE someone to a board edge, then run away and jump them with the Penitent forcing them to shoot it or die next round...or back away. Keepos the flank clean. Just as an example.

That hasn't been my experience at all - I always squadron them up and it has made them far more survivable. With the new squadron rules the hits all go to the first PE till it dies, and then continues on - that generally means I can absorb a few hull points, shuffle the wounded one to the back, and keep on trucking. I often go four or five hull points before I lose one engine, and with them ignoring half the penetration chart they are really quite durable in a squad. I DO run them across the board sometimes, and I could never even dream of managing that if they were on their own.

As far as the Repentia, a Penitent kan-wall might be all right, but I prefer to run Repentia up behind Seraphim, fronted by Celestine. It's a wall of cover with 3+ saves, 2+ until celestine drops... and unlike PE, it does not slow the Repentia down. I run two squads of repentia up behind Celestine and company, and it is a major source of concern for the enemy. Helps keep a good deal of fire off my PE once they realize they need their high strength to get rid of Celestine fast. Mind you, that is a bit of an all or nothing trick - if Celestine survives a few rounds, you have a death star that breaks into component pieces at the enemy lines and kills several units in one nasty turn. If Celestine drops turn one, Seraphim start dropping fast and Repentia have to scatter into cover and play area denial until they are whittled down.

It matters what else you're running. Obviously if I take THREE or FOUR hammer units, the enemy is saturated by targets and now they have to prioritize differently because the Penitent Engines, while burly, DO go on I3 and grenades and fists DO work on them... But the sheer volume from the Conclave or Repentia sisters on the charge vs. the variable threat of the Penitent... I can see how an enemy might let them slide in the second round of shooting for example and just absorb a hit. Tau do this (throw away units are easy for therm).

The net impact of the Penitents is what I am looking at. As aforementioned, you might get one over there, but if the unit takes 4 hits, it can blow the whole unit apart and that can be ONE Engine or it can be three, your choice... Luck is nice, but open topped makes luck harder to find. Will it ever work? Sure. I once got all three across the board and literally tore 4 units apart without losing one. Tabled the dude eventually. So based on that you might believe they are the answer to cancer. In a game against orcs, they annihilated all his Dreads with ease. they never swung once. It happens.

Owning three of those beauties (really love that model), I've not found them to be terrible, but they certainly are not anywhere close to an auto include. On the general scale I find the Engines are an enigma. So much promise yet... Realizing the promise can be daunting.

I dont want to discourage anyone from using them. Just make sure you have a really good plan.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sudojoe wrote:

shutting the Obliterators up so they dont keep shooting is legit thought, but do it with shooting, from a distance. =) Even if they get one more shot off than you'd like, at least your army is still doing ITS thing in the meantime.

I'm not entirely convinced that leaving them alone would have done much good for me. Sure it tied up the saint and seras but the building damage chart makes me think that losing my warlord, icarus lascannon, rets, and some space monkies would have been a worse trade off. I have a deadly fear of multi-meltas at 12' to the bastion.

Do you think it's worth the risk to the bastion?


Incidentially, what do you guys think of the list overall? The dread and exorcist are the same points so I can sorta go either way.

To be fair, I have seen the Bastion played twice and I nuked it turn 1 both times. Im not really sure why people like them. I get the way its meant to work. I just see it flattened too often to trust it. Ultimately though, not knowing the details and what your options were i cant really tell y=a what the right move was.

Exorcists can be helpful. Retributors with Heavy Bolters are restricted by their range and Exorcists aren't impossible to kill but while alive they do a good job of taking up an opponents attention while youre meneuvering into position.

I take the etributors with Heavy Flamers and mount em up in the Rhino. Frightening amounts of damage, units get to better positions, no more need of a bastion. I like it.

 Jancoran wrote:
To be fair, I have seen the Bastion played twice and I nuked it turn 1 both times. Im not really sure why people like them. I get the way its meant to work. I just see it flattened too often to trust it. Ultimately though, not knowing the details and what your options were i cant really tell y=a what the right move was.

We have talked about statistical outliers before and I'll talk about it again here. The chance of someone taking out an AV14 building that cannot be glanced to death first turn are very low. With the exception of long range AP1 (Broadsides), it is unlikely that you are going to drop it on first turn. Can it happen? Sure. Is it likely? Not at all.

Exorcists can be helpful. Retributors with Heavy Bolters are restricted by their range and Exorcists aren't impossible to kill but while alive they do a good job of taking up an opponents attention while youre meneuvering into position.

I take the etributors with Heavy Flamers and mount em up in the Rhino. Frightening amounts of damage, units get to better positions, no more need of a bastion. I like it.

I get that you like the EZ Bake oven, but it is just diffcult to use, expensive and fragile. Compared to a bastion with HB rets, you are going to get a lot less mileage out of an EZ Bake.

Popping the bastion turn 1 means:
* I deployed too close and gave him the range (for say Vindicators)
* He drop-podded and I didn't screen it well enough
* He got a lucky lascannon shot
* He brought some 2D6 armour penetration long range goodies, i.e. Vanquishers

I suppose it also depends on your local scene.

I usually suffer the drop-pod treatment, don't see much Vanquishers.

 Shandara wrote:
Popping the bastion turn 1 means:
* I deployed too close and gave him the range (for say Vindicators)
* He drop-podded and I didn't screen it well enough
* He got a lucky lascannon shot
* He brought some 2D6 armour penetration long range goodies, i.e. Vanquishers

I suppose it also depends on your local scene.

I usually suffer the drop-pod treatment, don't see much Vanquishers.

Yeah, so the first two are preventable. The third is luck and the fourth is unlikely.

Just saying, I make lists based on likely outcomes in a game. I create redundancy and overlapping of roles through multiple slots. I do not build all my lists to counter grots even though one time grots totally wiped out a squad of terminators in hand to hand. There's likely things to factor in, unlikely things and then just freakish chance. If the freakish chance things happen, you're probably already in trouble and most pre-planning isn't going to help.

Just getting my nuns set for 6th and I have a few questions:
I am using eviserator armed redemptionists for repentia ( I had 20 don't ask) but I don't have a good model for the mistress anythoughts would like it to look "priestly" to fit the unit idea of repenting priests.

Next thinking of this as a rough list idea:
Celestine and seraphim
Jacobus with lots of crusaders
Using these units and dominions to get up and tarpit or destroy shooters and armour 2 units.
3 units of sOB in rhinos. Objective parking flamers all around.
2 dom in immolators melta all around
Then as much repentia and petinent love that I can squeeze into 500ish points

Yes an assault focussed SOB list!

canadianguy wrote:
Just getting my nuns set for 6th and I have a few questions:

Welcome to the party!

I am using eviserator armed redemptionists for repentia ( I had 20 don't ask) but I don't have a good model for the mistress anythoughts would like it to look "priestly" to fit the unit idea of repenting priests.

I did the same before I got some repentia models. If you have a lot of redemptionists, I would convert up one of the other ones and give him a pair of whips. There's some good bits in the flagellant kits for whips.

Next thinking of this as a rough list idea:
Celestine and seraphim
Jacobus with lots of crusaders
Using these units and dominions to get up and tarpit or destroy shooters and armour 2 units.
3 units of sOB in rhinos. Objective parking flamers all around.
2 dom in immolators melta all around
Then as much repentia and petinent love that I can squeeze into 500ish points

Yes an assault focussed SOB list!

Make sure to get some DCA for Jacobus as well.

Sounds like fun. Let us know how it goes. An awesome trick you can pull with assaulty sisters (or any army) is to get an aegis and put it 6-9" outside your deployment zone. Then first turn, move and run into it so you have cover.

Was thinking 6 crusaders n 3 dKA.
Don't I then take movement penalties running out of through the ADL?

canadianguy wrote:
Was thinking 6 crusaders n 3 dKA.
Don't I then take movement penalties running out of through the ADL?

It counts as difficult terrain. The cover can be very worth it. Remember if you are walking, you can take 10 Battle Conclave. I'm a fan of 5 and 5.

 Spidey0804 wrote:
Rock, Paper ,Scissors…Power Klaw

So I have come to accept that guard is the one army that we are just meant to lose to, unless the guy playing it just isn’t competent with the army. ..

Lol. I respect IG a lot Spidey. In capable hands it is a powerful army. We have one of the best IG Generals here locally that I have faced and ironically he doesn't do tournaments really (he plays really slow and doesn't think he can finish games under normal time constraints but he beats the pants off of everyone). What I have found against him is that the Sisters stack up really well. The outflanking Dominions crash into the sides of his carefully laid out deployment, St Celestine shoves herself up his nose with her Seraphim and the Sisters and the Repentia etc... blast the Chimeras open. His allies usually include Space Wolves for defense, and they do some damage when I get there for sure.

But I've not played against IG and felt there was no winning it.

I was thinking conclave more to tarpit than do wounds hence why the crusader imbalance with the invul and fnp from jacob they should hold up well.

canadianguy wrote:
I was thinking conclave more to tarpit than do wounds hence why the crusader imbalance with the invul and fnp from jacob they should hold up well.

That's kind of a waste for the unit, but hey, it's up to you. Conclave (when it survives) is a nasty, choppy unit that eats almost anything. Don't waste it.

Problem is getting there with it and actually charging.

Their Rhino will have a big target sign painted on it. And walking isn't much better.

I did try out a full assault army once:
Kyrinov+Jacobus and 2 conclaves
2 Repentia squads
9 Penitent Engines
some sister squads

It did pretty well on very heavy terrain, but the lack of shooty stuff made it a bit too squishy.

Also, marines make my penitent engines cry. Even a tactical squad would kill 1 or 2 with grenades if charged.

 Shandara wrote:
Problem is getting there with it and actually charging.

Their Rhino will have a big target sign painted on it. And walking isn't much better.

Walking isn't so bad if you have enough crusaders and/or an Aegis at the center line. It still isn't a good idea though. I would never take them in a rhino now.

Assault took a hit in general and the conclave took a big hit.

Since this is the major thread for SoB I just have to post this. If anyone has missed it, Raging Heroes are launching a few Kickstarters this year with what they call:

"Imagine a movie directed by Tarantino in which a band of female warriors/soldiers are drafted from all the prisons and hellholes of the galaxy, and are then led by our very own Kurganova sisters. Imagine a bunch of punk-ass big-mouth bad girls, kind of like a mix between Aliens' Vasquez, Tank Girl, and Planet Terror's Cherry Darling, and you get an army of psyched Rambo girls – we like to call them "the Rambettes" - that you would not want to approach if you care for your life."

And more importantly:

"We've been working on a futuristic Paladin Sisterhood army for quite some time now and we have a lot of stuff tucked away for this."

http://www.ragingheroes.com/pages/kickstarter-news

Of course, taste is always something that is personal. There are likely to be those out there who find their products both stereotypical and sexist but I have to admit to beeing a huge fan of them. Given their AWESOME miniatures, I love their versions of Daemonettes (which look like the way they should before GW went PG-13 on them) and Witch Elves and how well they suit my own Sisters of Slaanesh army with their allied IG (all female ofc) these kickstarters is THE major thing I am looking forward to when it comes to new miniatures this year. Who knows, another company actually making miniatures that could be used as Sisters is perhaps the only thing that might push GW into paying us SoB-players some attention...

Agusto

Hmm. I'll have to keep an eye on it when it goes live.

Interesting.

Although their current lineup fits into IG, I'm wondering how 'paladin-esque' this new line will be.

Okay, new idea for the Guardian Cup (1750) next month:
Saint Celestine
Uriah Jacobus
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Meltagun, Multimelta, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Rhino (Search)
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Storm Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword
Exorcist
Exorcist
Retributors x7, 4 HB, Simulacrum Imperialis
Bastion with Quad-Gun
Primaris
PCS with 3 Flamers
4 x Infantry with Power Axe/MB, Autocannon
Vendetta
Manticore

BSS without a vehicle goes in the Bastion so they have 3 HB and a Storm Bolter (plus normal Bolters). Rets go on top with the quad.
Celestine, Jacobus and the Primaris go in the blob. This allows Celestine to soak wounds with her 2+ and FNP, if the Primaris gets endurance, she also gets It Will Not Die! which is hilarious. Alternatively, I could split them in two blobs depending on mission and such.